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Biden Allows Ukraine to Use Long-Range U.S. Weapons in Russia; Russia Hits Ukraine's Energy Infrastructure in Major Attack; House Ethics Committee to Meet as it Weighs Fate of Gaetz Report; Just Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 18, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Raising the States, with just two months left in office, President Biden gives Ukraine the OK to use American long-range missiles on targets inside Russian borders. We're going to take a look at how it could impact the war.

And President Elect Trump said he had no idea who was behind Project 2025 during the campaign, but one of his latest administration picks wrote an entire chapter for it. And he's not Trump's only choice with ties to the controversial conservative agenda.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Plus, prosecutors accused Sean Diddy Combs of attempted obstruct from behind bars, how they say he allegedly tried to influence witness testimony and taint the jury pool. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

KEILAR: We begin this hour with a major policy shift by the White House. Sources telling CNN that President Biden has given Ukraine the green light to use American made long-range missiles inside of Russia, well inside of Russia, in fact. This is a decision that the Kremlin warns, quote, "Throws oil on the fire". And it's one that the U.S. resisted for months, fearing that it could further escalate the conflict.

A U.S. official says the weapons are intended to be used primarily in Russia's southern Kursk region where thousands of North Korean troops have joined Moscow's offensive to push Kyiv out. The authorization coming as Russia unleashed a second missile attack here in two days on the Ukrainian city of Odessa.

CNN Chief International Security Correspondent Nick Paton Walsh is in London with the latest on this. Nick, talk to us a little bit about this decision because it has been a long time coming.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It certainly has. And the period of months in which President Joe Biden has essentially said this decision would be too escalatory for him to make has added to the significance of what we heard on Sunday, allowing Ukraine to use these attacks longer range missiles to go after targets inside of Russia.

Now, I should point out at this stage, it doesn't seem like there's really going to be enough of these missiles available to Ukraine to majorly tip the balance in a war where Russia on the front line is gaining the upper hand, has been consistently and steadily advancing in the east.

But it certainly suggests that President Biden in his closing months is not afraid of escalation and potentially wants to see the war in Ukraine involve the United States in a more intense, greater fashion in these closing months of his administration, perhaps to complicate or change the dynamics that President Elect Donald Trump inherits if potentially he pursues negotiations like him and his team around him have suggested might indeed be the point.

I should point out that while we haven't heard directly from Russian President Vladimir Putin, he has in the past suggested that if these missiles were in fact used, that would constitute NATO, the United States and Europe essentially becoming parties to the war.

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We've not heard from him today, but we have heard from his foreign ministry who have essentially repeated that idea. So interesting to see how the Kremlin respond to this. Brianna.

KEILAR: And what can you tell us about these two undersea cables in the Baltic Sea, Nick, that have been cut here in the last 48 hours?

WALSH: Yeah, look, there's two here, one between Lithuania and Sweden that Lithuanian officials have been clear that they believe has indeed been cut, and a second one that is between Germany and Finland where a mystery disruption appears to have interrupted some of the traffic there.

Now, look, we don't have any evidence at this point to suggest that these events are indeed linked, but bear in mind that while we have heard Russia vocally saying that it will respond to what it considers escalation by the west, it doesn't really at this point have the military strength struggling in nearly 1,000 days of war inside of Ukraine to take on a neighbor that it considered to be weaker than itself to confront NATO, the largest military alliance in history, directly.

And so instead we've seen an increase in what intelligence officials have been calling the asymmetric response of Russia. There have been suggestions that Russian intelligence may have been behind some courier packages that have detonated or almost detonated around Europe. And it may indeed be that in time, future we see some suggestions that these internet cables on the bottom of the sea may have been tampered with by somebody.

But interesting the timing of this and I'm sure investigators will be looking fast and hard to see exactly how this happened. Brianna.

KEILAR: All right. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you. Jim. SCIUTTO: All right, let's turn now to the experts. Joining us, Kimberly Dozier, CNN Global Affairs Analysts. And today with Brianna, CNN Military Analyst, Retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

KEILAR: And Colonel Leighton, we're going to start with you. Talk to us a little bit about these ATACMS and exactly how much of a difference maker these are.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Right. So, Brianna, let's start with the basic statistics, if you will. So it has a range of about 180 to 190 miles, 13ft in length, first used in the Gulf War. And basically it's been in service since that time until the present day. So when you look at it and, you know, it is here seen in flight, this is basically a short to intermediate range artillery piece.

And what it can do is it can do all kinds of things that really affect this area right in here. So we're looking at the border between Russia and Ukraine and you can see what it can actually reach right here. So these are one of the key things to note here.

In addition to Kursk, which is the area that the Ukrainians have occupied or at least part of right there, you can also see the area of Belgorod. This area right in here has a major Russian military installation associated with it and there are several other major installations right along this whole periphery.

KEILAR: Yeah, it could really, Jim, change the landscape of the war and it certainly changes some of the political decisions that may have to be made by the incoming administration here.

SCIUTTO: Kim, given concerns inside the outgoing administration about the incoming administration's commitment to defending Ukraine, when I saw this move, I wondered was the Biden administration trying to move the ball forward in a way that would be difficult for Trump to move back?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: They are definitely trying to set the battlefield in place so that Ukraine has as much as possible before January 20th. And one of the things that look, on January 20th, the next president can turn the clock back, pull back these permissions. But what might happen in the interim is that Biden right now is at the G20 asking leaders to support more opposite -- more aggression, more weapons for Ukraine and to pick up just in case the next White House wants to draw back.

And that means that Britain and France who've been reluctant so far to give Ukraine permission to use their Storm Shadow, their -- their own mid-range missiles inside Russia, can now -- they've got the U.S. permission, they can do the same. So whatever Trump wants to turn off come January, he can't tell other NATO powers. Now you have to say no to Ukraine too.

SCIUTTO: Right. He can't tell them. But the fact is the U.S. just has so much more military power and greater assets. It just those countries can't supply to the same degree. I mean, if you add up all their dollar support. DOZIER: It's true.

SCIUTTO: So the question is, can they actually, I know there's a lot of talk about them filling the gap, but can they actually fill the gap?

DOZIER: Well, look, this is a short-term fix. They would take -- it would take them years to build the manufacturing lines to replace U.S. weapons manufacturing capacity. But in the short-term, they could get enough aid to Ukraine so that Ukraine can hit enough of those concentrations of North Korean and Russian troops that are trying to take back Kursk.

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Because if Ukraine can keep Kursk, then when Trump forces everyone to the negotiating table, they can say, OK, we'll give you back Kursk if you give us back Crimea.

SCIUTTO: That's a bargaining ship (ph). I didn't think of that. Yeah. Fantastic.

And Brianna, by the way, to think of this, there were North Korean, thousands of North Korean soldiers fighting in Europe today alongside Russia. We got to remember that.

KEILAR: Yeah, no, it's such a good point. And just in, the State Department, Jim, saying that more than 11,000 North Korean troops are now operating in Kursk. Colonel, that's up. We should say we knew that there were more than 10,000. Now they're saying there's more than 11,000. So that's telling you there's a slow but steady increase of these North Korean helpers in this region at a time where Russia just really hammered Ukraine in an offensive.

LEIGHTON: Absolutely. And so those North Korean troops would be co- located with Russian elements right in this area, basically right around the areas in which the Ukrainians actually have a peace there.

So this right here is the area that Ukraine has occupied. The North Korean troops, we'll give them a green color here. They would be alongside Russian troops and they would be potentially used either to supply as a re-echelon supply effort or potentially in combat. We've already had some reports of them actually being in combat and it's part of a movement that could include about 100,000 North Korean troops over the course of the next 12 months.

KEILAR: Yeah. You're seeing what is perceived as escalation on both sides here. Important to note. Colonel, thank you so much. Kim, really appreciate your input.

And ahead this hour on CNN News Central, the House Ethics Committee is expected to meet here within days as it weighs whether to release its final report on Matt Gaetz. What we're learning about the investigation and President Elect Trump's pick for attorney general.

Plus, new reporting about Democratic lawmakers growing frustration with Nancy Pelosi. Why the former House Speaker is getting under their skin.

SCIUTTO: And an E. coli outbreak that has sickened dozens and killed one is now traced back to carrots. What you need to know. These important stories and more all coming up this hour on CNN News Central.

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KEILAR: So we could be now just a couple days away from finding out if the House Ethics Committee will release its final report on former Congressman Matt Gaetz. Sources telling us the panel is expected to meet on Wednesday as it's weighing whether to put out its findings on Trump's attorney general pick. Last night, Trump announced that he's selecting the top Republican at the FCC, Brendan Carr, to lead the agency in his incoming administration.

SCIUTTO: Carr, to be clear, is yet another Trump pick who just so happens to be a co-author of Project 2025, a right wing playbook for massive changes to the U.S. government in Trump's second-term. You'll remember Trump repeatedly denied knowing anything about Project 2025 during the reelection campaign on his Truth Social account and on the debate stage. Have a listen.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT ELECT: I have nothing to do with Project 2025 that's out there.

I haven't read it. I don't want to read it purposely. I'm not going to read it. This was a group of people that got together, they came up with some ideas, I guess some good, some bad. But it makes no difference. I have nothing to do --

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SCIUTTO: His picks seem to contradict that. CNN's Tom Foreman joins us for a deeper dive. So tell us more specifically about Carr and his ties to Project 2025.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, he certainly calls into question everything that Trump said about this. Who is Carr? He wrote the FCC chapter in Project 2025. It's about 5,000 words of two long magazine articles appointed to the FCC by Trump in 2017 and in a relationship with Elon Musk has developed and that they sort of work together.

He's also the guy who posted this. We must dismantle the censorship cartel and restore free speech rights for everyday Americans. Well, what does that mean? When you look at some of his proposals, you get an idea. End Big Tech's unproven conservative censorship.

In the last election, in this election, over and over again, you heard conservatives yelling that their views were being suppressed in large part because there were big media companies, big tech companies that were saying, hey, we can't forward flat out lies that endanger the public, like lies about vaccines and about COVID and about the election. We shouldn't forward things that we know to be false. They're calling that censorship, saying, you don't know them to be false. Those are our views. You're suppressing those views.

Rollback, net neutrality rules. Net neutrality is what basically says every company has, in really lay terms an equal share of the internet. Everyone has a right to get their things forward. I want to roll that back which would allow some companies to promote certain views and other companies more accurately than others.

So if you're big and you have a lot of money, you can buy more freedom of speech on the internet, in effect, and more freedom to sell your products. Other may not, but net neutrality kind of fights against that.

And he indicates support of Trump's threats to media licenses. Basically, all the TV stations you listen to, radio stations, the FCC licenses them to use the airwaves. In his writing, he says, hey, those airwaves are worth a lot. We don't like it. If you're out there promoting views that we think are anti-American, anti-patriotic, we think that that's unfair. So they would go after that as well.

Again, one of his other posts to consider. Broadcast media have had the privilege of using a scarce and valuable public resource, our airwaves. In turn, they're required by law to operate in the public interest.

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And when the transition is complete, the FCC will enforce this public interest.

The big question here is, what is the public interest? When you say public interest, we all have an idea of that. If you think it's against the public interest to promote alternative views, well, then that's a problem.

KEILAR: And, Tom, there are other Trump picks that have ties to Project 2025 as well.

FOREMAN: Yeah. Even though some of them have tried to suggest they don't or they're tenuous at best. Tom Homan was involved in putting this together. John Ratcliffe, the CIA director nominee there. Stephen Miller, Deputy Chief of Staff, he founded a group that was involved in writing some of this. He had some other ties to it. Both he and Karoline Leavitt, White House Press Secretary, they both, at various points have sort of disavowed any contact or tried to make it a very thin thread to all of them.

The bottom line is this. We know that there are dozens of people who are tight with Trump, part of the Trump circle, involved with Trump in the campaign, and now who are absolutely part of Project 2025. It's online, whether you're for it or against it. It's worth pulling up and reading. Take some time. It'll be about 900 pages. But it gives you a real idea of many of the ideas that many of those in Trump's orbit want to see enacted now that he has the power to do it. KEILAR: All right, Tom Foreman, thank you so much. Joining us now to discuss is Nayyera Haq, former White House Senior Director for the Obama administration, and Lance Trover, former Spokesperson for Doug Burgum's presidential campaign.

All right, Lance, Trump's picks are looking pretty Project 2025y for someone who disavowed Project 2025. Was he lying?

LANCE TROVER, FORMER SPOKEPERSON, DOUG BURGUM PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I don't think he was lying. Look, I viewed Project 25. I mean, I got folks here in the media love to talk about it. And I know -- I think it's like a failed Democratic talking point from the campaign. The country spoke overwhelmingly.

Donald Trump said, I don't have anything to do with this. The country voted for him with 75 million votes. I look at somebody like Brendan Carr who wants to take on free speech and ensure we have free speech in this country. I don't think that's a bad thing. Who wants to take on these tech companies? I don't personally think that's a bad thing.

And I think a lot of voters out there don't think it's a bad thing. It's not like this is his only qualification. The guy sits on the FCC right now --

KEILAR: No, no, no, I don't -- that's not what we're talking about. But if, for instance, you were a Democrat who disavowed the Green New Deal and then you won the election and hired a bunch of people who had written it, a lot of Republicans would say that was not in good faith.

TROVER: Well, there's a lot of people who worked on Project 2025. Does that mean they should have nothing to do with this incoming government? Is that -- is that what you're saying? They can't possibly work in government --

SCIUTTO: The question is --

TROVER: People are qualified beyond -- beyond borging (ph) --

SCIUTTO: Is it a lie for Trump to have said I have nothing to do with it and then to hire people who wrote parts of it for senior positions in his government?

TROVER: No, that's not --

SCIUTTO: Or is that at least misleading?

TROVER: No, that' --

NAYYERA HAQ, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SENIOR DIRECTOR, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Why don't I jump in here. With the fact that 140 former Trump won administration officials were part of writing Project 25. That's part of why this became the Democratic talking point. To connect the first administration with what were clearly plans for another Trump administration.

Now, I totally agree with you. It is not a winning campaign message because ultimately campaigns are not about, here's my policy proposal and how I plan to destroy the administrative state. It's about the feeling, the thoughts of how people want to engage government, which is why you can say something like, oh, free speech. But the reality is how is that going to be implemented in law, in regulations?

Governing is much different than campaigning. And now we see that the people from Project 2025 have every intention of governing and executing the plan that they put together for Trump.

SCIUTTO: So Democrats failed to get that message across to sufficient number of voters to win the election. What is the Democrats plan now, particularly given that they're in the minority in the Senate and the House, White House and of course a conservative controlled Supreme Court to push back or block any of the more extreme elements of Project 2025.

HAQ: Yeah, I think there's two views right now within the Democratic Party and obviously a lot of recovery from the election and self- flagellation as well as self-reflection. And one of the views is that, well, this is what the country wanted, even if it was 780,000 votes within swing states, it is considered a decisive enough election that let the country get what it wants and Democrats should be playing defense and fixing things for individual communities as they go along and let Trump own this.

The other perspective, and I think you'll hear this a lot more from folks who've worked on the governing side and not the campaigning side, is the concern about breaking down systems like our health care, our vaccination programs, the fact that we've hurt immunity on things like polio, right? Is that -- are we bringing back infectious diseases that have effectively been eradicated because someone like RFK Jr. just decides he doesn't want to research it anymore?

All right, these are jobs that have been apolitical, that have continued for generations. Is that -- can Democrats protect that or help, you know, keep that stable for a post Trump, you know, era?

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TROVER: Well, that -- that is -- that is a question. I do agree with you. Somewhat it is a question for Democrats. Are they going to go along with what the voters wanted and said they wanted last week, which is massive change, a real shock to the system here, or are they going to continue to be the never Trump, oh, no, I can't possibly do that because Donald Trump wanted?

I mean, they're mad at Nancy Pelosi right now because she's out there waffling all over the place. They can't get anything straight. So I'm really curious to see whether they are going to stand up and say, yeah, we want to work with the president --

HAQ: And this is --

TROVER: on getting immigration under control. Yeah, we want to work with the president on the tax bill.

SCIUTTO: There was a bipartisan proposal, as you know, to get immigration under control --

HAQ: And that was --

SCIUTTO: but that's many months ago.

HAQ: That was many months ago. And that was also undermined by Trump. So I'm not sure that the Trump campaign, when how that translates to the administration sees a value in this idea of bipartisanship or bringing along people that weren't already with them. And that's typically what presidents try to do, is govern for everybody. And what I hear from so many Republican colleagues and Trump colleagues is they want to govern only for the Trump majority.

KEILAR: Do they -- do Americans want massive change or do they want things to be more affordable?

TROVER: I think they want both. I say this all the time. Donald Trump, from when he first came down the escalator. There's one central theme to his candidacy that has always been, is that Washington doesn't work for you. They think you're deplorable. They think you're garbage. All of the above. And we need wholesale change in this country.

I don't think any voter walked into a voting booth and was not clear about that. Do they want lower prices? God, yes, of course they do. But it's up 20% over the course of the last four years. So of course they want that. And they want the border under control. They do need massive change.

SCIUTTO: Here, listen, voters clearly voted for change. The question is, what is the change that they voted for? And if you have a Project 2025 with quite extreme change laid out, which president Trump denies he has connection to, and then proceeds to put people who sign that document into senior positions in power, did voters get misled then on how far Trump wants to take some of these, for instance, to the point herd immunity on diseases like polio and measles, you know, is this something that we want to retreat from?

TROVER: Again, this project -- I mean, how many voters actually know what Project 2025 is out there? I venture to guess not that many. We talk about it here. It's a very big inside the -- inside the Beltway thing to talk about. I'm not certain a ton of voters actually know what it is. But again --

HAQ: I think it's not like our job is to help inform people --

TROVER: That's fine, absolutely. Have a conversation --

HAQ: as I was hearing, informing about what the plans are. And so --

TROVER: But I'm just saying I don't think that voters -- voters didn't go into a voting thinking Project -- no, they went into your point about lowering the cost of health care. No, they think that Washington isn't working for them. They're looking for all different wholesale change here in Washington. That's why I think the voters went for last week. To your point, though, if you can put people into his administration that were part of Project 2025, it's not every person that's going into his administration and it's not -- it doesn't define who they are. Brendan Carr is a very qualified individual. He currently sits on the FCC. So and again, there's a process for all this. They're going to have to go before the Senate. They're going to have to face a hearing and get --

SCIUTTO: Unless there are recess appointments.

Another position, public position from the current president or President Elect. Nayyera Haq, Lance Trover, thanks so much for both of you.

Coming up next, how prosecutors say Sean Diddy Combs used other inmates telephone accounts and three way calling to allegedly influence witnesses and taint the jury pool in his sex trafficking case.

KEILAR: Plus, President Elect Trump confirming plans to use the military for mass deportations. Can Congress do anything about it? We'll have that ahead.

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