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Speaker Johnson Announces Single-Sex Bathrooms Are "Reserved For Individuals Of That Biological Sex."; U.S. Closes Kyiv Embassy Amid Threat Of "Significant Air Attack"; Race For Democratic Leadership After Sweeping Election Loss; Defamed Election Workers Accuse Giuliani Of Repeating Same Lies. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 20, 2024 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: We heard Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton -- I know you're tracking this. He said, "I have two little girls. I don't want them getting run over on a playing field by a male or formerly male athlete. But as a Democrat, I'm supposed to be afraid to say that."

And he was talking about Democrats sort of struggling with this issue in a way that speaks to maybe the middle of the electorate in this last election.

You had Democratic Congressman Tom Suozzi saying, "I don't want to discriminate against anybody, but I don't think biological boys should be playing in girls' sports.

You know, what do you say to them and to Democrats as they are navigating this issue?

LAVERNE COX, ACTRESS & TRANSGENDER RIGHTS ADVOCATE: I would say that sports -- that sports, as the trojan horse, is a really great way to reduce trans people to testosterone levels, to our bodies, which is a way to dehumanize us.

The sports -- sports question was brilliant -- a brilliant strategy for Republicans who are not interested in the liberty and the way to fear monger and among trans people.

There are less than 100 trans athletes in the K through 12 system in this country. Many of the states, who have passed sports bans, 26 states, half the country now has those sports bans.

Many of these trans athletes in that where there was only one trans athlete in that state.

And so, again, what I would say to these people that less than 1 percent of the population that trans people are, and they spent $215 million scapegoating us to win an election.

This is about divide and conquer. This is about a lot of things. it's about a lot of things. it's about a Republican party who doesn't have an economic message that resonates with working-class people and a Democratic party that also doesn't have a message that would resonate with working-class people. And that, and two parties that have both been captured by

corporations. And so what the Republicans have done is they have no problem just telling complete lies, recycling those lies in their media ecosystem, setting the agenda, setting the terms of every debate.

And then Democrats responding to the terms of that debate on really -- it's the second, we're the second. I've heard -- I've had so many people say gender affirming care for young people is up for debate, trans people in sports is up for debate.

My identity is not up for debate. The second we can see that we can debate health care for young people, we have conceded to bigoted, dehumanizing terms that anti-trans people have set forth.

I am not interested in, like, having a debate about my identity. I'm interested in access, equal access law and my liberty.

And I also I just want to remind trans people, this is not the first time that our identities have been criminalized ,LGBTQ-Plus people, this is not the first time our identities have been criminalized in this country.

We -- some of us survived the times before that. It was just 20 years ago, 2003, Lawrence v. Texas, where being gay was, you know federally legal in this country.

So we haven't actually had right overtly for very long. So we have to figure out ways to survive. There have been underground railroads of resources and community aid and mutual aid.

Now we -- it's -- it's coming. I believe they're going to do everything they say in probably 2025. How do we survive? Be there for each other. We have to do it in connection in community, take care of our mental health first and foremost.

And we have a right to be here. I love my country. I might have to leave it if I'm criminalized. But my -- I've lived the American dream. And everyone should have the right to do that. Everyone.

And I insist that trans people do everything that we can to survive this and to live our dreams even as they dehumanize, stigmatize and criminalize our existence.

KEILAR: You have lived the American dream.

Laverne Cox, thank you so much for being with us and speaking with us about an issue that is so important. We appreciate it.

COX: Thank you so much. Have a beautiful day. Trans is beautiful.

KEILAR: Have a beautiful day.

[14:34:24]

And we'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The U.S. embassy in Ukraine's capital of Kyiv is temporarily closed. And warning Americans there of a potential and significant air attack by Russia.

Now we're also hearing that Ukraine is warning Russia is staging a, quote, "psychological attack" on the Ukrainian people by spreading fake warnings of a huge looming air strike.

Back with us now is CNN military analyst and retired U.S. Air Force Colonel, Cedric Leighton.

Take two here. We got started before on this segment. OK, that was kind of confusing what I just described because part of this is like a psyop. So what is this assessment that Ukraine has? What do you make of this?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, RETIRED & CNN MILITARY ANALYST: So basically, what the Ukrainians are saying is a lot of the material that we see on social media and even in intelligence reports is not correct.

Now, the Russians have clearly moved some aircraft around. They are doing some of that as part of a psyops game, probably.

But they also -- the Ukrainians also have to expect that there will be some targeted -- targeted areas within Ukraine. And they have to get ready for that. They have to get their air defenses ready for those possible attacks.

[14:40:06]

KEILAR: Yes, that's been a reality for them. They've seen that lately in earnest on occasion here, right?

OK, let's talk a little bit about this aid that the U.S. is announcing for something kind of controversial, which is not just anti-tank mines but anti-personnel mines to be used against Russian forces.

You had the secretary of defense trying to kind of assuage concerns. I don't think they're completely assuaged.

LEIGHTON: That's probably true. Because when you have anti-personnel mines, they are different in characteristics from an anti-tank mine here.

And what's key here is this little fact right here, 160 countries have -- have banned or signed a treaty that bans the use of these mines.

Now these particular mines, the ones that the U.S. is shipping to Ukraine, are actually battery powered and they, in essence, have a time delay associated with them.

They are only active for a certain period that can be set. It can be set for a couple of weeks, or it can be set for just four hours. So that's kind of the difference when it comes -- when it comes to that. But that's all part of a big -- a big aid package that the U.S. is

shipping to Ukraine.

KEILAR: So the idea is that they basically become like dummies after the battery -

(CROSSTALK)

LEIGHTON: That is correct. So that that will then actually help assuage the -- the concerns of the treaty. And it will also help make it possible for the Ukrainians to move about this area if they lay mines and then the Russians leave or are forced out of that area.

They can possibly use that land once again as long as they are very careful with how they place these mines.

KEILAR: All right. Very good to know.

Cedric, thank you so much for taking us through that.

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:46:12]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: The battle over who will lead the Democratic Party nationally is kicking off and the stakes could not be higher. With the party's soul searching after some bruising losses in the election.

One of the names being floated ahead of the DNC is with us right now, Democratic strategist. Chuck Rocha, who was a senior adviser on Bernie Sanders campaigns in 2016 and 2020.

And, Chuck, you have said that you would weigh potentially running for DNC chair. What considerations do you go through before jumping in the race?

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, WEIGHING RUN FOR DNC CHAIR: I want to see the rules. I want to see what actually the rules are going to be to run.

I talked to the DNC this weekend. They're going to be releasing rules in the next week or two. I don't want to jump in until I know the rules are. And I want to see who else is getting in.

Like I want to do this because I want to return the party back to what we we're when I joined it, fighting for middle-class values, being the party of workers, being the party of the common man, making Democrats fun again.

If there's somebody else that can do that, I'm going to jump in behind them and run their campaign if I can. But if nobody does, that's why I put my name forward.

SANCHEZ: Returning to those values because you see the party as having left them. Why?

ROCHA: Because you can see it in the last election, working people have left the Democratic Party in droves. Folks without a college degree. I'm the only senior national Democratic operative without a college degree. I am one of these people.

I don't need a focus group. I grew up this way. These men that are leaving the party, I was that man 20 years ago driving a truck, hunting and fishing, probably doing a lot of dumb things.

I know how to talk to them. So I think that that's why it would be important to have somebody like me or me there.

SANCHEZ: What do you make of some Democrats who say that the party has adopted a language that is too high-falluting, that is beyond the language of the working class when it comes to LGBTS-Plus issues, when it comes to Latinos and Latinx? What do you make of that?

ROCHA: I think that too many times our policies are always right when it comes to working people. It's how we talk about those policies.

Many times, I say, we bring a policy book to a box of matches. This is a fight. We don't need to explain the nuances of policy. We need to fight and let people know we are fighting for them.

SANCHEZ: When it comes to constituencies that Democrats saw diminished support, you mentioned men, Latino men, black men, Latinas as well.

What do you think is the path forward for getting those folks back into the Democratic coalition?

ROCHA: I'll add one more to that. That's folks that live out in the country on farms in rural America. We lost that by more than we used to lose it by. And we've been losing it by more and more.

I grew up on a farm in east Texas. This accent is not made up. It is real. It's another reason why I think we need somebody that's very real, not part of the elite class, leading the party to get back to where we were.

I think the reason we lost those people is they don't trust the brand anymore. They know the policies are with them. We can explain the policies, but it's the brand that need fixing.

Democrats are going to be the brand of workers and Republicans are the brand of bosses.

SANCHEZ: On the policy side, you talked about sort of the communication issues as you see them.

On the policy side, you obviously work for Bernie Sanders. He came out and essentially called for a reimagining of economic policy when he ran in 2016 and 2020. And he talked about losing the working class during this last election.

On the other side, you had more moderate candidates that pointed to progressives and said these policies are too extreme and too far left, which I can imagine what you're going to say.

But which do you think is the path forward from a policy standpoint on the economic message?

ROCHA: I think we need to be common-sense Democrats that are a little bit conservative and a little bit liberal. Because I think there are policies that workers and regular folks care about that lean a little bit one way or the other. And I think that's where most of the party is.

When you say that your message is around economic populism of doing things. Donald Trump has actually been brilliant at this. And this is how he continues to win.

He's got working-class Americans thinking he's for them when he goes and votes for things or wants things done, like not capping insulin, not giving you a child tax credit, that go against the values of working people.

We've got to get back to owning that space and being a little bit tougher and not afraid to kind of beat our chest.

[14:50:04]

SANCHEZ: Chuck, will you come here and let us know when --

(CROSSTALK)

ROCHA: -- I will come here to my home, here at CNN, to do it.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate you.

ROCHA: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Thanks so much for your time.

Next, more legal troubles for disgraced former New York City mayor, Rudy Giuliani. The new accusations he's facing and just a few moments. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: New today, former Donald Trump attorney, Rudy Giuliani, is now accused of repeating the same lies, the same lies that led to that $150 million defamation judgment against him.

The two Georgia election workers who he defamed just filed a new motion claiming that Giuliani is still defaming them, despite court orders to stop.

KEILAR: CNN's Katelyn Polantz is with us on this story.

And Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss, they actually want Giuliani held in contempt here. What exactly is he accused of saying now?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN LAW & JUSTICE REPORTER: Yes, this is a new problem in court for Rudy Giuliani, because he had a settlement with these two women that he wasn't going to repeat the lies about them about the 2020 election.

[14:55:07]

Here is what he said, though, on his broadcast on November 12th. So just a few days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: They're passing these little -- little hard drives that we maintain, we use to fix the machines, right? And they say it was candy.

Well, you look at it, it looks like a hard drive to me. And they told me it was a hard drive. And there's no proof that it was candy.

And I'm a lawyer, and I give got -- got to give my client the benefit of the doubt, or you disbar me. They want to take $145 million. So am I telling the truth? Sorry. They're going to sue me again for saying it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POLANTZ: Indeed, they are. It's not a new lawsuit, but Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss have gone to court to tell the judge this is a clear and unambiguous violation of a settlement he reached with them six months ago to stop repeating these things publicly.

This is separate from them trying to collect on the $150 million debt that he owes them, where they're getting his apartment, his luxury watches, his car, trying to get some other things.

And now we wait to see what the judge in D.C. does. Judge Beryl Howell, how does she respond to this? Does she find him? What else does she do?

SANCHEZ: I'm sorry. I'm trying to understand what he was talking about there.

POLANTZ: Yes.

SANCHEZ: He's saying that -- he suggested that hard drives we're candy, or they suggested that what he thought we're hard drives we're candy?

POLANTZ: Yes, they we're passing each other a ginger mint. That's testimony they've given under oath in the House. What he says is those we're hard drives showing flipping votes or changing votes. And it's not true.

SANCHEZ: And he's suggesting that they're being tested now, these hard drives?

POLANTZ: He's just suggesting that that's what he was trying to put into court back in the days when he was working for Donald Trump. And he's made some other comments, too, about what these women we're

doing that are false.

KEILAR: That news, repeating it again, man.

SANCHEZ: Down the rabbit hole with Rudy Giuliani.

KEILAR: He knew what he was doing, right? He made it so clear he knew what he was doing. He said, they're going to sue me again. So it seemed like he knew what he was doing.

Kaitlan, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

It's a critical day on Capitol Hill for Matt Gaetz and the push by President-Elect Trump to make him the country's next attorney general as we wait to see if the Ethics Committee could make the findings in its investigation public.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)