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Matt Gaetz Withdraws His Bid for Attorney General; Exclusive: Sources Say Woman Told Ethics CMTE that She had Two Sexual Encounters with Then-Rep Gaetz at Party When She was 17; Sources: Trump Orbit Doubted Gaetz Could be Confirmed as AG: GOP Relieved as Gaetz Withdrawal Sinks in on the Hill; Defense Secy Pick Meets with Key GOP Senators as New Details of 2017 Sex Assault Allegation Are Revealed; Trump Demands Republicans "Kill" Bill that would Give Journalists Greater Federal Protections; Pentagon: Russia Notified U.S. Before Firing Ballistic Missile at Ukraine. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 21, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:46]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Matt Gaetz Drops Out: The Florida congressman withdrawing as Trump's pick for attorney general. This huge announcement coming just minutes after CNN asked him about accusations of a second sexual encounter with an underage woman. How the Trump team and lawmakers are bracing for this on Capitol Hill.

Plus a potentially - a potential escalation in the war on Ukraine: New questions on the type of missile that Russia launched overnight. Putin calling this weapon experimental.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: And the NFL warning players that organized criminals may be targeting athletes. What the league is telling players after burglaries at the homes of Kansas City Chiefs' stars Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce. You may know him as Taylor Swift's boyfriend.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: We are following breaking news, President-elect Trump is looking for someone new to lead his Justice Department after former congressman Matt Gaetz said today he is dropping his name from consideration as attorney general. In a post on social media, Gaetz wrote that his confirmation process has become a distraction to the critical work of the Trump-Vance transition team.

SANCHEZ: Now, Gaetz spent his week working the phones and meeting with key Republican senators to make the case for why he deserves the job. But it was unclear whether he would have enough Republican support to secure the position. Our correspondents are standing by with all these new developments.

But let's begin our coverage with CNN Chief Legal Affairs Correspondent Paula Reid.

And Paula, the timing of the withdrawal is interesting because you had some new reporting you've been working on that was set to come out just afternoon today. And just before the withdrawal came out, you were anticipating a response to that reporting from Gaetz.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We reached out to Gaetz's representatives around 11:30 today to tell them that we had new reporting. And we believed it was significant because it was revealing that the House Ethics Committee had heard from a woman who was just 17 when she says that she had sex with Gaetz about a second sexual encounter she testified about having with Gaetz and another adult woman.

And this is significant reporting because it's an example of the kind of information that could be contained in this ethics report that is not public. I've reported on these investigations for four years. And this is the first time we had learned of this. So this was a significant piece of reporting. We reached out to the congressman to - former congressman to allow him to respond. We said we were going to go live with a report around 12:30. In about two minutes before we went live, we didn't get a statement - instead, he announced that he is withdrawing.

And we have no confirmation, of course, that this was the reason. But I think the timing is notable. It suggests that there is likely more that would be in this House Ethics report.

And I also need to point out the Justice Department did investigate Gaetz around his allegations of having sex with a minor. He was not charged. The adult woman who was allegedly part of this encounter, she's also denied that it took place. But we were talking earlier about how one lawmaker on the Hill said yesterday, you don't need to see the ethics report. You know what's in it. You've reported it all.

But this is an example. I've covered this more closely than anyone of the kind of information that is potentially in this report that is not yet public.

KEILAR: Let's turn now to CNN's Kristen Holmes, who is in West Palm Beach, Florida.

And Kristen, we're learning that the President-elect doesn't actually yet have a backup in mind to put in place now that Gaetz is out of the running. So what's next?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna and Boris, remember, part of the reason that he ended up choosing Matt Gaetz was because he was unimpressed by all of the people who had been paraded through his office. He had sat down for a number of these interviews. He was told allies that he believed these people were too stiff, that he wanted somebody who could be a, quote unquote, "effective communicator." He wanted somebody who could go on television and throw bombs, and that's how he landed on Matt Gaetz, or at least in part.

The whole entire process of Matt Gaetz vetting essentially happened on the plane from West Palm Beach to Washington. And by the time he landed back in West Palm Beach after his meeting with President Biden, he had announced that he was nominating Matt Gaetz. [15:05:02]

Now, here's what we're told about how today unfolded. One, Donald Trump and JD Vance were both told by Matt Gaetz directly that he was going to be withdrawing his name. The transition team was also made aware that this was happening so that they were alert and starting to think about potential names for a new list of potential attorney generals.

We are also told that here's what happened yesterday on the Hill and how that played into all of this, that some of the meetings, they came out of them feeling cautiously optimistic, that a lot of these senators said they were keeping an open mind, but they were informed and they were realized through this trip to the Hill that there were more hard nos than they had originally thought.

They also believe, and this goes to what Paula was just saying, that there was more damning evidence inside that ethics report that previously had not been reported, meaning essentially that those hard nos were going to stay hard nos and it was likely there were going to be more Republican senators who turned against Matt Gaetz instead of the other way around. So while they thought maybe this is a good step, they also saw the writing on the wall as this ethics report was being debated whether or not it was going to be released.

Now, I do want to quickly note Donald Trump did respond on Truth Social. This is what he posted earlier today. "I greatly appreciate the recent efforts of Matt Gaetz in seeking approval to be Attorney General. He was doing very well but, at the same time, did not want to be a distraction for the Administration, for which he has much respect. Matt has a wonderful future, and I look forward to watching all of the great things he will do."

And then one thing I want to note here, we have heard conversations happening among Trump allies, among the Trump transition before Gaetz dropped out about how this could potentially hurt Donald Trump down the road because Donald Trump would have to expend so much political capital to try and get Gaetz confirmed, it actually could hurt some of his other, maybe slightly less, but still controversial picks.

Clearly, that was something that his team was discussing and how to get around when this happened.

SANCHEZ: Kristen Holmes, thank you so much for the update from West Palm Beach, Florida.

News of Gaetz decision to drop out from campaigning for the attorney general role is now resounding around Capitol Hill.

KEILAR: It certainly is. And that is where we find CNN Congressional Correspondent Lauren Fox.

Lauren, tell us about that reaction from lawmakers.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Yes, there's a real sense of relief up here in the United States Senate. And that in part is because a lot of lawmakers were staring down what was going to be a very difficult two months to even get to the confirmation hearing for Matt Gaetz in the Senate Judiciary Committee.

There was a lot of concern that more and more might come out about what witnesses told Ethics Committee members behind closed doors. And I think that that fear and apprehension about what they might learn, how that might affect the nomination, what they might be asked about in the halls, that was really weighing on some lawmakers as they were trying to think through how they were going to move forward over the next several weeks.

You know, one thing to keep in mind is there were a number of Republicans who never said what they thought about Matt Gaetz, other than some of them who were very surprised that he was nominated in the first place. One of those people who called him unserious, Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, actually told me that she thought that this was a sound decision by Matt Gaetz, that this was something that was the right decision moving forward for the body.

But there was a lot of reaction where folks just didn't get a heads up. You know, we talked to John Thune, who is a Republican leader, he's incoming Republican leader, who told us that he did not get any sense that this was coming. So a huge surprise on Capitol Hill.

I'll note that Gaetz did have a series of meetings yesterday with Senate Judiciary Committee members. And it was really interesting because after those meetings, Senator John Cornyn made the point to reporters that behind closed doors, he had impressed upon Gaetz what was at stake here. He also made clear that there are no secrets when it comes to this vetting process and that everything was going to come out. Brianna?

KEILAR: Really interesting. And now with Gaetz out, Lauren, there is a spotlight on Pete Hegseth, who is Trump's DOD pick. He's facing this allegation of sexual assault himself from 2017. And he was up on the Hill today meeting with folks that he needs to win over. What's the reaction been like to him?

FOX: Yes. As reporters are asking about Gaetz, they are in the same breath then turning to Pete Hegseth and whether or not Republicans believe that he has the votes, will he be able to actually get confirmed? And it was really interesting because the talking point that you kept hearing over and over again today on Hegseth was that this process is going to play out, that all nominees have to go through the vetting process.

And I think that that is a telling sign because you don't hear a ton of Republican members just coming out saying that they are certainly and definitely going to support Pete Hegseth. Because again, there's that apprehension about what do members know, what don't they know at this point.

And we should just point out that committee hearings and that vetting process, it happens in a very public way. There's also questions that these nominees have to answer for senators and respond over the course of several weeks. [15:10:02]

This is not an easy process. And I think that the gravity of that is really starting to set in on Capitol Hill for not just these nominees, but also the Republican senators who have this work ahead. Brianna?

SANCHEZ: Lauren Fox live from Capitol Hill, thank you so much.

Let's discuss with legendary journalist Bob Woodward. He's an associate editor at The Washington Post and the author of the new book, "War."

Bob, thank you so much for being with us.

BOB WOODWARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, THE WASHINGTON POST: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: You've written a lot about Donald Trump over the years. And I want to ask you about his transition so far, specifically the idea that some of these allegations about Gaetz had already been out there. Folks were familiar with some of the allegations. And on top of that, Gaetz hadn't cultivated a very popular relationship. He wasn't Mr. Congeniality up on Capitol Hill. Why did the Trump team move forward with nominating him as attorney general, do you think, with all that baggage?

WOODWARD: Well, Trump likes to do it his way, as we know. I remember interviewing him 35 years ago, Trump, when he was a real estate operator in New York and he talked about his own rules. And his first rule really is never fold, never give in. And he's liable to look at this as an opportunity to put his foot on the gas a little harder to do the unorthodox. And never fold, because he's going to look at this as, oh, Gaetz was pressured, you know, the whole environment is uncomfortable. Well, no one likes uncomfortable environments to operate in more than Donald Trump.

KEILAR: That's a very good point. And you've covered him for so long, but you've taken such a detailed look at his past administration and I wonder how you think these picks, just more broadly, compare to the folks he chose to have in his cabinet the first time.

WOODWARD: Yes. I mean, he's overreaching. He - and dangerously for him and for the country, people are clearly unqualified. People who don't have management experience, Justice Department, Defense Department, they are giant management problems. And you can't just walk in off the street and say, oh, run this place. So there will be more spectacle probably from Trump and who's he going to put in the place of this first effort. He could go low, lower, high, medium, probably not too high. I think he's not going to put somebody in there who is a Democrat who has lots of legal experience. But we'll get to ...

SANCHEZ: We'll see. We'll see, yes.

WOODWARD: ... watch. Yes, exactly.

SANCHEZ: Do you think there's a cohesive strategy behind these picks?

WOODWARD: Now, now --

SANCHEZ: I ask you, because some president-elects go in thinking they want to create a team of rivals. Trump the last time around was seeking advice from outside people. He had unorthodox choices during his first administration. Some of them seemed to pan out. Is there a strategy here?

WOODWARD: Well, a cohesive strategy ...

SANCHEZ: Yes.

WOODWARD: ... from Donald Trump and doing three books on him and lots of reporting, no. That's not the way he operates. He wants to do it his way. So if he can find a way to put his finger in the eye of the establishment again, I think he's likely to do it.

KEILAR: I wonder what you think as we've been watching the Biden administration grant Ukraine the ability to use some of these American-made weapons in new and significant ways. Because in your book, "War" you revealed, and it made a lot of news, details about how then President Trump had had private conversations with Putin about a secret shipment of COVID-19 testing equipment that Trump sent to Putin, kind of doing him a big favor. And you also reported that there have been maybe as many as seven calls between Trump and Putin since Trump left the White House in 2021. Trump has denied those reports. You have less of a credibility - I would say he has a credibility issue, you don't. I'm going to take your word for it, Bob. How do you see this relationship coming in as Trump has a decision to make about how the U.S. should support the war?

WOODWARD: It's something to watch. The Trump-Putin relationship is at the top of the list of mysteries and uncertainties.

[15:15:00]

And Trump just recently, when asked about if he's talked to Putin, he's refused to comment. And then he said, if I did, it would be smart. Mystery not solved.

SANCHEZ: Bob, I'm curious about something that you have a unique perspective on, because you quite literally changed the relationship between journalists and presidential administrations. You're being modest about it, but ...

WOODWARD: I'm being realistic.

SANCHEZ: ... I - well, I mean, Richard Nixon's career as president may differ with you in that opinion. I do wonder, given that you were a target of the plumbers trying to figure out who was leaking stuff to The Washington Post at the time, what you anticipate the relationship between Trump and the press will look like now, given that he feels empowered going into a second administration and that he's made all these threats about retribution, about revoking broadcast licenses, et cetera.

WOODWARD: Stay tuned. You can never tell. But as I say, Trump loves giving his middle finger to the American people. And that's part of the practice, whether it's a thought out strategy, don't know, but next pick will be interesting. And that's part of Trump's approach and strategy to cause everyone to guess and wonder and talk, oh, what is he going to do now, what's the flavor of the month and we don't know. He knows he gets to decide and so we will have more Trump stories in discussion.

KEILAR: That we can be sure of. We look forward to you telling them. Bob Woodward, thank you so much for being with us this afternoon.

SANCHEZ: Appreciate it.

KEILAR: Still to come, some new details on the type of weapon that Russia fired at Ukraine. Putin saying that it was an experimental non- nuclear ballistic missile. But what this potentially means in the war on Ukraine.

SANCHEZ: Plus a powerful and deadly bomb cyclone hitting the West Coast. And now a new threat is moving into some of those hard hit areas.

And the MLB now testing a robo umpire to call balls and strikes - a robot umpire. Will fans and teams see this move as a home run or a big swing and miss?

Much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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[15:21:58]

KEILAR: News just in, the Pentagon says Russia notified the U.S. before launching a ballistic missile against Ukraine through nuclear risk reduction channels. These are photos obtained exclusively by CNN showing the missile debris in the Ukrainian city of Dnipro.

Earlier today, Vladimir Putin announced that the strike was carried out by, quote, an experimental non-nuclear ballistic missile, which has a medium range. The announcements came hours after Ukraine accused the Kremlin of firing an intercontinental ballistic missile. It's a weapon that's never been used in war before and is designed to deliver long distance nuclear warheads.

Let's talk about this now with retired U.S. Army Colonel Peter Mansoor. He's a former aide to General David Petraeus. He's now a professor of military history at Ohio State University.

Colonel, this is really interesting. So just tell us why, if Vladimir Putin's emphasizing that he's firing a non-nuclear missile, but experts are telling us that this is a missile that usually - you know, it's something that's designed to carry a nuclear payload and you have Russia trying to de-conflict through like a nuclear back channel. What's going on here? What the message is that Putin is sending?

COL. PETER MANSOOR, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, this is a very calculated response to the United States approving Ukrainian use of ATACMS missiles into Russia. And so Putin wanted to respond in some way, but he wanted to make sure that it didn't lead to further escalation. So he chose this experimental missile, the "Oreshnik," hazel in English, to carry a non-nuclear payload into Ukraine with the understanding that, well, you know, if we wanted to put a nuclear weapon on top of that, we could.

So it was a response to what he considered an escalation by the United States. And this, he believed, was a proportional response.

KEILAR: So he's kind of - is he kind of saying, hey, I could nuke you if I wanted to?

MANSOOR: Precisely. He's been rattling the nuclear saber from day one of this conflict, at least ever since it started to go against him. And he knows that that has deterred the West from fully supporting Ukraine. Up to now, it's deterred the United States from allowing Ukraine to use American weapons to attack sites and targets in Russia.

That barrier has been breached now, and he doesn't want it to go any farther. So he's saying, you know, look, I've got nuclear weapons. I've got the capability to deliver them and this just proves it.

KEILAR: And Colonel, is that why he's also emphasizing this change in the Russian doctrine of if you are a non-nuclear weapon-armed country, but you're attacking Russia with the help of a nuclear-armed country, we're going to consider that as a joint attack against Russia? He did that today.

[15:25:07]

MANSOOR: Well, that's precisely it. He wants to deter the United States from fully supporting Ukraine, saying, you know, if we get hit too badly by Ukraine using American weapons, we can retaliate against the United States. We consider that a joint operation. It's a dangerous path that he's walking down. He thinks that he'll win that escalation dominance because Ukraine means more to him than it means to the United States. And we'll see, we have no idea how President Trump is going to approach this conflict.

KEILAR: I mean, that's - and that's the big question, right, Colonel? We spoke yesterday with a man who is raising two small children from Bucha. He escaped Bucha narrowly before Russia invaded at the beginning of the war. And that's what ordinary Ukrainians are so worried about right now is America going to cut off support for the Ukrainian war, because to them they see that as kind of a death sentence for their country. I mean, what is there to say to them?

MANSOOR: Well, not only that, but the Europeans see it as an American abandonment of international norms that you don't take other countries by force. So it has a lot of ramifications. You know, I think Donald Trump will attempt to solve this conflict through diplomacy. The question is, what will he do when that fails, when Ukraine rejects the draconian terms that Putin will put on the table and they say, no, we're not going to take those. We're going to continue to fight no matter the cost. And what will Donald Trump do then, will he completely abandon Ukraine or will he double down on American support for Ukraine, which he's also hinted that he could do. So, you know, stay tuned, all we know is this will play out in real time after January 20th.

KEILAR: And Colonel, I do just want to emphasize here we're getting in some new reporting from our Oren Liebermann and Natasha Bertrand, who cover the Pentagon, that that experimental Russian ballistic missile that was fired at Dnipro carried multiple warheads. Tell us if that's significant to you, because we know that this weapon called a MIRV, M- I-R-V, its shorthand. It is - it's for multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicle. The idea being that it's designed to cover or to carry multiple nuclear warheads. Here it appears it carried multiple non-nuclear warheads.

MANSOOR: Yes, it's clearly a weapon designed for nuclear warfare. It's very expensive to use a weapon like that for a conventional attack, and there's other means to hit those targets. So this clearly was part of the nuclear saber rattling and a message from Vladimir Putin that I have these weapons and they work and, you know, tread your path carefully in terms of what you want to do to us because we can respond in kind.

KEILAR: Yes, a potential first wartime use, a preview of what it could look like without nuclear warheads.

Colonel Peter Mansoor, thank you so much for being with us.

MANSOOR: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: Still ahead, a bomb cyclone slamming parts of the U.S. and Canada and the threat isn't over. We're tracking intense rainfall that could unleash life-threatening flooding.

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