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Kentucky Man Almost Had His Organs Harvested While He Was Alive; Americans Imprisoned in China Back on U.S. Soil After Prisoner Swap. Aired 3:30-4 pm ET

Aired November 28, 2024 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MOSHE LAVI, BROTHER-IN-LAW TAKEN HOSTAGE: -- transition period, so that they'll be home by your inauguration on January 20th.

[15:30:05]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Moshe, have you gotten any update on your brother-in-law Omri's condition?

LAVI: The last time we saw Omri was when Hamas released a psychological warfare video of him in late April. His conditions were -- he seems like he lost a lot of weight, lost a spark in his eye, and the joy that is really what Omri is, is a really joyful and caring and kind human being. And we haven't heard or saw him since.

We do get updates from the IDF, like many other families, about what they believe are the current assessment of the hostages, including Omri. We have no reason to believe he is not alive. We believe he is alive. We'll keep advocating with the administration here in the U.S., with our own government on the streets, because they breach the trust and are trying to silence the dissent from the people. And of course, when we go to the parliament in Israel and the Knesset, we'll keep advocating with publics worldwide and decision makers worldwide, because there are still more than half of the hostages, more than half of the 101 hostages, that we can still save. We can still save their life, reunite them with their families.

And I don't want to meet you again next Thanksgiving. I don't know if you remember, we talked about the odyssey last Thanksgiving. And sadly, this odyssey continues. And our odyssey is, in this case, Omri continues to suffer, while Lishay, my sister, is suffering in other ways, waiting for him to return and advocating for his return.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, Moshe, it is disappointing that it's been a year since we had that conversation, and not much has changed for Omri and for the other hostages. We do appreciate you coming on to share his story with us and with the world as well. And our hearts go out to you and your family.

Moshe Lavi, thank you so much for the time.

LAVI: Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving.

SANCHEZ: Happy Thanksgiving.

Stay with CNN. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:36:51]

SANCHEZ: There is some progress to share today on the issue of organ donations. Right now, 17 people die every day waiting for an organ and while the need is great, the family of a man named T.J. Hoover says the organ donor system needs immediate reform. Hoover nearly had all his organs harvested despite still being alive.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: Extraordinary story. Our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, investigated what happened to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Tell me about that day.

DONNA RHORER, SISTER OF T.J. HOOVER: We were there saying our goodbyes. That was it. We felt like we were doing the right thing as a family and they were trying to kill him. We had made the decision to remove him from the life support because we were told, you know, he was brain dead.

GUPTA: What you are watching is the honor walk. It's one of the most revered traditions in a hospital. It's when family, friends, and staff all pay their respects as someone is wheeled off to give the ultimate gift, donation of their organs.

Except this man, T.J. Hoover, was still very much alive.

NYCKI MARTIN, FORMER KODA EMPLOYEE: I think organ donation is a beautiful, life-saving gift when it's done ethically. I was just scrolling through TikTok about different kind of donation stories and there was a little search bar across the bottom that said he woke up during his honor walk. So I watched it and the people looked familiar, the hospital looked familiar and I said, this is our donor.

I don't know if it makes me more sad or pissed off. I don't know. It's a very emotional thing for me because nobody should have to go through that. And I just feel like there were so many opportunities for someone to step in and say, we're not doing the right thing.

GUPTA (voice-over): Nycki Martin worked for Kentucky Organ Donor Affiliates, or KODA. It's known as an organ procurement organization, responsible for recovering organs from deceased donors. Nycki was so disturbed by what happened to T.J. that she penned a letter to Congress, trying to bring more attention to cases like his.

MARTIN: I believe in organ donation and I'm devoted much of my life to it. However, in too many parts of the country, like Kentucky, it's unsafe and I'm pleading with the government to change that.

GUPTA: Do you remember when you were driving to the hospital that day? What did you hear that sort of triggered the alarm bells? MARTIN: The tracking with his eyes and moving around, trying to pull his tube out, trying to move his hands away, just all of the reflexes that he had. Normally our DCD donors don't have those kinds of reflexes and they're not awake and they're not conscious of what's going on. So it was kind of really shocking for all of us to know that KODA's admin was pushing to continue.

[15:40:00]

GUPTA: Is this money? I mean, is that the incentive fundamentally?

MARTIN: I think for KODA it is. Or for any OPO, you know, they're paid for the organs.

GUPTA: You think of organs as being a gift of life. But what you're describing is a big money-making operation.

MARTIN: Mm-hmm.

GUPTA: And that's really, you think, what sort of incentivized that push.

MARTIN: Yes.

GUPTA (on camera): In a statement to CNN, Network of Hope said that KODA does not, quote, "receive financial incentives based on the number of organs recovered and that its focus is on compassion, not on pressure." Baptist Health Hospital wrote to CNN that they work closely with our patients and their families to ensure patients' wishes for organ donation are followed.

And KODA said it reviewed the case and remains confident that accepted DCD practices and approved protocols were followed. When asked about the specific accusations by Nycki, KODA said she was not present in the hospital and added, this case has been inaccurately represented by individuals never involved in the case.

So we did track down someone who was in the operating room that day and did see what happened firsthand.

Her name is Natasha Miller. She's a transplant perfusionist, and I'm driving to see her now.

From what I understand, he was mouthing the word no and pushing hands away and things like that.

NATASHA MILLER, FORMER KODA EMPLOYEE: Yes, he was very aware. The pronouncing physician comes in. And when she comes in, she walks back out and she says, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this case. I don't feel comfortable. The organ coordinator that was there, she steps out to call the supervisor at the time to tell him that the pronouncing physician was refusing to do the case. She said that he was yelling at her, telling her she needed to find another physician to come. And she's like, there is no one. There's no one else to come do this case.

GUPTA: Is there any part of this that makes sense to you? Is any part of this defensible?

MILLER: No, because it seemed like at first they were saying, well, family, family consented, family consented, family consented. And I get that. But again, it seems like family wasn't made fully aware of his actual state. None of it makes sense. We should have never went to OR.

RHORER: About an hour, hour and 15 minutes later, the doctor come out, got us and told us to pull up the chair. She said, he's not ready. He woke up.

GUPTA: That's right. That's TJ, who is now home. I just want to check your strength here. Can you pull your hand towards your face? Try and touch your nose. That's pretty strong. How about with this hand? Can you do it here?

I know you told me that this first thing that he really remembers is being in the operating room and having all these people around him. But have you been able to explain to him everything that happened the same way you explained it to me?

RHORER: I have.

GUPTA: How does he react?

RHORER: Why did they want to kill me? Of course, he remembers he was an organ donor and he has survivor's guilt. He's like, all of these people thought they were going to get to live.

I was a registered organ donor and I'm not anymore.

GUPTA: Really? Because you don't trust the system?

RHORER: I don't trust the system.

GUPTA: What is TJ's life like now?

RHORER: He wasn't supposed to make it a year if he made it. Hold your head up, bud.

GUPTA: For TJ, it's not just about being alive, but living and getting to be a part of these moments. Like walking his sister down the aisle and meeting Nycki for the very first time.

MARTIN: Hi, TJ. Do you know how special you are? You don't. You're pretty special, bud. So many reasons.

RHORER: You survived, bud.

MARTIN: You're my hero, TJ.

GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Richmond, Kentucky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUARDT: Our thanks to Dr. Sanjay Gupta for that touching report. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:48:43]

MARQUARDT: Three American citizens are finally back on U.S. soil after a prisoner swap with China. The State Department says that the men were held in China for years.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, they landed in San Antonio, Texas late last night and the release is part of a rare diplomatic agreement with Beijing. CNN Pentagon correspondent Oren Liebermann is here in studio, we should note. Oren, what are you learning about this?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, when we talk about China, it's much more often we're talking about friction, difficulties, and broken-down communications. This has been a long- standing effort, not only from President Joe Biden, but also from Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, Jake Sullivan, and other U.S. officials to try to get this across the line. And they do it quietly.

We have covered several of these and they work quietly, but this is the fruition of that work. Mark Swidan, Kai Li and John Leung coming home in exchange for unnamed Chinese nationals. So not a lot of details on that part of the prisoner exchange.

But crucially, especially in the case of Swidan, Kai Li, who have been wrongfully detained in China for a decade or more, it is the culmination of the work to bring them home. And that's what we saw here.

We have seen the Biden administration make this an effort to bring home wrongfully detained prisoners from other countries as well. Evan Gershkovich, Paul Whelan, Brittney Griner. These are never easy, but there is always the work there behind the scenes, and this is where it pays off. We have seen statements of thanks, first from critics of the Biden administration.

[15:50:07]

Senator Ted Cruz very much praised the Biden administration for the work done here. Congressman Michael McCaul doing the same. And then, of course, the families, very happy that these three are home before the holidays.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, a significant deal there. Oren Liebermann, great to see you in person. Thanks for joining us.

Stay with CNN News Central. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: In the wake of Hurricane Helene, Thanksgiving will be different for families living in Western North Carolina this year. In Asheville, some small businesses are banding together to rebuild their community. MARQUARDT: A community that was so hard hit. Here's a look at how you can give back this holiday season.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX MATISSE, EAST FORK POTTERY FOUNDER: My office was over here. We've cleaned up all of the mud and the debris that was in here, but you can imagine our water was, you know, up to here. We were really fortunate. One of our buildings was impacted, but where we do our manufacturing, neither of those locations were severely impacted.

[15:55:08]

My name is Alex Matisse. I'm the founder and CEO of East Fork Pottery. It's been hard for small businesses even before Hurricane Helene. For businesses in Asheville, we went through COVID, the recession, and then to have this hurricane was just life-changing for everyone here. A lot of people were going to be without work, and we wanted to try and keep our payroll going. Our customers showed up as they always do. We actually hired 20 other people to help out in our fulfillment department.

RACHEL KRUH MEYER, BOTANICAL BONES FOUNDER: Botanical Bones is a superfood dog treat brand. I started my business shortly after we adopted our dog, Carnaby, from Brother Wolf Animal Rescue. And when I saw that Brother Wolf had lost their shelter in the floodwaters, I was just heartbroken because I know that my business wouldn't exist without them. So we're donating back to Brother Wolf for every order this holiday season to help them with their rebuild efforts.

GINGER FRANK, POPPY HANDCRAFTED POPCORN FOUNDER: We feel really fortunate to have fared well, be up and running in business, and be able to give back to our community and help them recover.

This is a bag that we commissioned a local artist to do a design for, kind of represents all the things that we love about Asheville. $2 from every bag that's purchased on our website goes back to small business recovery from Helene in retail stores, $1.

ALLISON BLAKE, SOULKO COULKU CO-FOUNDER: So SoulKu was started with my business partner and I. We just create beautiful, simple pieces of jewelry. They have lots of meaning behind them. We know money is tight. If you do not spend your dollars with these beautiful, unique businesses, what you love, what you know about Asheville and our Blue Ridge Mountains, it's not going to be here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUARDT: And for more on how you can support those small businesses and others in Asheville who were impacted by Hurricane Helene, head on over to cnn.com/impact.

And that'll do it for us. Wishing all of you out there a very happy Thanksgiving.

SANCHEZ: Alex, grateful to have you with us here today. MARQUARDT: It's a lot of fun.

SANCHEZ: The bro show, always a good time.

Thank you as well for joining us. Stanley Tucci: Searching for Italy starts after a quick break.

Happy Thanksgiving.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)