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More Lawmakers Targeted With Bomb Threats; New Details In Search For Missing Hawaii Woman; Volleyball Becomes Center Of Transgender Athlete Debate. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired November 29, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:01:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: More lawmakers targeted. We have new details about the bomb threats and swatting calls being made against Democratic members of Congress, as well as some of President Elect Donald Trump's cabinet picks.

Plus, an update in the case of missing Hawaii woman Hannah Kobayashi. Her sister says she has reason to believe that Kobayashi is still alive. The latest details on the search for her.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: And women's volleyball, I should say, finds itself at the center of the transgender athlete debate. The co-captain of the San Jose University women's team is now speaking out about accusations a fellow player is trans and defending the effort to get her own teammate banned from the game. We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to the CNN News Central.

SANCHEZ: We start with Black Friday in full swing right now across the country as many Americans head to malls or fill up their online shopping carts to cash in on the best deals this holiday season. More than 183 million people are expected to shop at some point this weekend, which could set a new record, according to the National Retail Federation.

ACOSTA: And they're opening their wallets big time with the average person spending a little more than $900 on gifts this year. CNN's Meena Duerson is live at a mall in East Rutherford, New Jersey. What are you hearing from shoppers out there, Meena?

MEENA DUERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, there's actually a lot of enthusiasm today. A lot of -- a lot of shoppers are choosing to come out in person. You know, online shopping has obviously become very popular, but 65% of shoppers are projected to be spending their dollars this weekend in person.

And we talked to a lot of shoppers, you know, who are really excited to take advantage of the deals in person. They feel like, you know, maybe they can trust them a little bit more in the mall, things they can pick up and feel and check out in person. So we spoke to some shoppers, you know, who told us that they had come specifically for deals that they could get here in the mall. We can hear from them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUERSON: Tell me about the electronics that you bought.

ANAIS MARQUEZ, BLACK FRIDAY SHOPPER: I'm on an e-sports team for Kean University and so my monitor broke at home. So for me to be able to play, I just need to buy a new one. So I got the last one and so I'm kind of happy.

DUERSON: One thing that has been reported is that President Trump has said that he's going to impose some tariffs on countries where some of these products are manufactured. So some of these electronics could cost more next year. Is that something you've heard about at all?

MARQUEZ: Definitely. And I don't like it. I think it's just -- I think it's unnecessary. I feel like the tariffs are just not needed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DUERSON: So, you know, that's one of those shoppers that told us that they had actually come to the store intentionally to buy some of these products before these tariffs do go into effect.

SANCHEZ: And, you know, what kind of products specifically do you think are on shoppers minds when it comes to preparing for additional cost of tariffs?

DUERSON: What experts are saying are traditionally to look out for items that are manufactured overseas in places like China, Mexico, Canada, countries where we can expect that if the costs from tariffs do hit consumers, that they will be potentially upwards of 20%.

So things like electronics, big household items, you know, fridges, washing machines, but, you know, a lot of electronics, tablets, smartphones, gaming systems, those are things that are on, you know, big holiday deals this weekend. So there are things that shoppers are really looking out for and potentially taking advantage of this weekend before those tariff impacts do take effect next year.

ACOSTA: All right. Meena Duerson, thank you very much.

Also with a tease there of our next guest, you could end up paying a lot more for everyday goods like the ones many Americans plan on buying today. President Elect Trump follows through with his promise to slap tariffs on imported products.

[14:05:02]

Here with us now is Larry Sabato, Director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia.

Larry, you just couldn't wait to get in there and give us your take on things. We had you pop up there for a moment. That's OK. It's the holiday season. Larry, I mean, what do you -- I'm sure you've been watching some of this tariff talk coming from Trump over the past week or so, and you might have some thoughts on this.

I mean, obviously we heard from one shopper there just a few moments ago talking to Meena in New Jersey saying, yeah, you know what, I don't like this, but I wonder if a lot of Trump voters out there were thinking, OK, yes, he talked about tariffs out there in the campaign trail, but is he really going to do it? It sounds like he might do it.

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS AT UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Well, he says he will, and this is Donald Trump. So that means it's a 50-50 chance one way or the other. But look, Jim, as far as tariffs are concerned, if you believe the economists, and I do, some of my best friends are economists, they say this will inevitably raise prices for American consumers and possibly drastically on such, on some goods.

Now, maybe this is just a negotiating posture on Trump's part. Maybe this won't happen, or it will happen only to a small degree. But if it does happen, I can guarantee you, you will hear one thing from Donald Trump and all of his minions. It's Biden's fault. That's good for at least six months, maybe a year.

And they'll say, you know, we inherited such a bad economy, it's going to take us a long while to climb out of this deep hole we're in. So there are lots of ways out of it for Trump, particularly because he has such a dedicated base who will believe absolutely anything he says.

ACOSTA: I mean, even though, Larry, I mean, the facts tell us that when tariffs are imposed, it's the companies that are bringing in those products who pay those tariffs and then they pass those costs invariably to the consumers who end up paying more in prices. Is it possible that this time around, if those tariffs do go into place, that people will draw that connection, they will figure that out?

SABATO: Well, Jim, hope springs eternal. That's -- that's the way we live. Hope springs eternal. So it's possible they will. I must say your correspondent interviewed a very well-informed shopper. I somehow don't think she is typical of the American shoppers, at least the ones who vote.

ACOSTA: Yeah, well, we'll see. I mean, you know, a lot of people voted to get inflation under control. If inflation goes up, obviously, there could be a political price. But, you know, Trump is saying that these tariffs are about forcing action on immigration and -- and drug enforcement. He had this back and forth with the President of Mexico.

He claimed that the president of Mexico told him that, OK, yes, we're going to take care of the border, no problem. And then she had a completely different take as to what occurred during that phone call. This is very much reminiscent of what we saw during the first-term. Trump would have these calls with foreign leaders, and you'd get two completely different readouts, one from the White House and one from the other head of state.

SABATO: Yeah. And Jim, you were -- you were there in the White house. You were the CNN's White House Correspondent. You saw it on a daily basis. The Donald Trump who served in the first term is the Donald Trump who's going to serve in the second-term.

You know, he's in his 70s, I'm in my 70s, so I get it. You don't change all that much when you're in your 70s. You can modify some things, but not many. This Donald Trump is going to do most of the same things, maybe all of the same things he did in the first-term. The difference being he has learned some things and he has some tougher assistants around him, people who are less inclined line to compromise or to deter Donald Trump from doing things that maybe aren't in his best interest, but that Trump doesn't see.

ACOSTA: And Larry, I mean, the election was less than a month ago, but consumer sentiment has already shifted. For Republicans, it has climbed more than 15 points. For Democrats, it has fallen by more than 10 points. What does that tell you about how a person's politics affect their views on the economy?

I mean, we're -- I guess we're a 50-50 country when it comes to our politics, and we're going to be a 50-50 country, I suppose, when it comes to just how we perceive -- how the economy is doing. And I suppose it goes a little bit back to what you were saying a few moments ago. No matter what happens with the economy, inflation, tariffs and so on, if Trump says, you know, the sky is blue, that's -- that's or any other color, that's what his supporters are going to believe.

SABATO: Yes, it'll be a kaleidoscope there. But it's whatever he says goes with his base. All I must say, after elections, this often happens. Today, the two most important letters in the English language are D and R. They're very powerful. If you have a D next to your name, you think a certain set of values. If you have an R next to your name, you think another separate set of values. And it determines the way you approach the world. It's a perceptual screen in front of you, and you interpret all news, national and international, through that screen.

[14:10:05]

So you're going to see a lot of this, guaranteed. You're going to have Democrats flipping on all kinds of issues where they were optimistic, now they're pessimistic. And you'll have with Republicans, loads of people, millions of people who were pessimistic becoming suddenly very optimistic. And I don't know how long it will last, but it probably will last quite a while.

ACOSTA: And people are still in their echo chambers. There's just no -- their information silos, there's no doubt about it. And what I remember the first time around covering Donald Trump is he obviously had a very powerful ally in Fox News. But I think you can add to that this time around, Larry, correct me if I'm wrong, with Elon Musk being in charge of X, a big part of social media is now very much going to be on Trump's side heading into the second-term.

SABATO: Absolutely. And there are a lot of -- there are a lot of smaller media organizations that really flow into what we see with X and social media and Fox on television. So you have a universe where people really do silo themselves. It's true on both sides. They silo themselves. They hear often a separate set of news stories, and they interpret the news stories based on the commentary that's folded around the news stories. How we're ever going to get out of this, I don't know, because I think people are siloing them themselves, even more so than they have in the past.

So how do we break out of that? Well, people have to agree at some point to watch at least a little bit of the other side's news coverage. And I don't see that coming anytime soon.

ACOSTA: Yeah, it's not a bad idea. All right. Larry Sabato, always good to talk to you. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. Happy holidays.

SABATO: Thank you, Jim. Happy holidays to you, too.

SANCHEZ: So at least five Democratic lawmakers from Connecticut, all of them from Connecticut, say they were targeted with bomb threats over Thanksgiving. The latest being U.S. Senator Chris Murphy.

ACOSTA: CNN National Security Reporter Zach Cohen joins us now. Zach, we have new details about what was included in some of these messages. What can you tell us?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yeah, that's right, guys. Democratic House leader Hakeem Jeffries revealing in a new statement this afternoon that there is at least one consistent detail in all of these threats that were sent to several lawmakers on Thanksgiving. And he writes in the statement, quote, "These incidents range from detailed threats of a pipe bomb placed in mailboxes to swatting, all signed with, quote, "MAGA" at the conclusion of the message."

So obviously the last part there is something Jeffries is revealing for the first time that does appear to have been consistent in all of these threats that were sent and targeted Democratic lawmakers over the holiday. And look, we need to be very clear here too, that law enforcement officials are still working to investigate whether there was any sort of motive or potential ideology that went in and was behind these threats, right?

This is a key part of the investigation and one that will play out in the coming days and weeks. But again, we at least know that there is a consistent theme or at least a consistent detail that ranged across the various threats that were sent out.

And this speaks to something that a spokesperson for Senator Chris Murphy, who you obviously mentioned was among those who received one of these targeting these threats. In a statement to me earlier, she said that this appears to be part of a coordinated effort involving multiple members of Congress and public figures. So potentially this could be what she was referencing, some similarity across the threats.

And more broadly, this does underscore a concerning trend that law enforcement officials are taking notice of and one that, you know, even if these bomb threats, which in this case all were investigated, no evidence of a bomb was found, but even if there was no bomb ultimately discovered, these threats can have an incredibly destabilizing effect. Law enforcement officials increasingly believe that they can be intended to intimidate government officials to disrupt government operations, including vote counting process and the vote administering process.

So really a range of possibilities here as law enforcement officials work with members of Congress and others who have received similar threats to try to pin down where they're coming from and what's motivating them.

ACOSTA: All right, Zach Cohen, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Let's talk more about this with CNN Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Charles Ramsey. Chief Ramsey, always good to see you.

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good to see you.

ACOSTA: Yeah. I mean, what do you think? What steps will authorities take as part of this investigation into what's behind these threats? I mean, it sounds as though maybe they're making a little bit of progress in figuring out what -- what this is all about.

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, they're going to try to trace the source of the call or however they got the information. But just let me say this. Calling in a false bombs threat or a swatting incident is stupid and it's dangerous.

It's very dangerous. It's dangerous for the person who's the target, obviously. It's dangerous for anyone who legitimately needs police service at a particular time and all the resources are tied up on a swatting incident, for an example.

[14:15:02]

And it's dangerous for the first responders. I mean, these kinds of calls are priority one calls, which means lights, siren, you get there as quick as you can.

I had two officers killed in a line of duty responding to priority one calls for service during my time in Philadelphia. This is not a joke. I mean, this is something that they take very seriously. And if they're able to find the people responsible, they need to be arrested and they need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. You got to send a message, this is not OK to do this stuff.

ACOSTA: Yeah.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. Chief, and there are certainly challenges when it comes to an investigation like this. Capitol Police say that they aren't releasing a lot of information on these threats because in part they want to avoid copycats. How do officials go about determining if these attacks were simply similar or if they were coordinated or if they were copycats, someone watching this happen and then repeating it themselves?

RAMSEY: Well, it's hard to get around copycats because you'll have some -- somebody watching this broadcast, for an example, that thinks somehow that's a good idea. You know, a lot of stupid people, you know, react to things like that, and so you're not going to get around that too much.

But there are ways in which they can start to try to tie things together to see whether or not it's a single source, if it's a group of individuals or what have you that may be responsible for this. I mean, attacking leaders in Congress, people newly appointed to the next administration, all those kinds of things, you can maybe start to see some kind of tie in.

You'll get some copycats. But you know, law enforcement is going to take this very, very seriously. And people need to understand, again, this is not a joke. It is something very serious. And I think that when we start using terms like it's not credible and things like that, it kind of makes people think it's not as serious as it really is. Obviously, if a bomb doesn't go off or you wind up, it's really not a home invasion in progress.

But in this current climate, it's just a matter of time before one of these kinds of calls turn out to be legit. And then where are we? And so, you know, everything has to kind of ratchet down a little bit, and we really got to start taking this stuff serious.

SANCHEZ: Chief Charles Ramsey, appreciate you sharing your expertise with us. Thanks for joining us and happy holiday.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Still ahead this hour on CNN News Central. Australia, passing a social media ban for kids under 16. Why some lawmakers say they doubt the new measures will actually work.

Plus, we're taking you inside the renovation of Notre Dame Cathedral, seen for the first time since a devastating fire years ago.

ACOSTA: And with Mar-a-Lago set to reclaim its title of winter White House, CNN traveled to Palm Beach, where we witnessed a city undergoing a MAGA makeover.

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[14:22:28]

ACOSTA: Parents around the globe are now watching just how Australia will execute the world's first ban on social media for children younger than 16. A lot of parents, I got to think, are paying attention to this in this country.

SANCHEZ: Yeah. No question. This law requires tech companies to take, quote, "Reasonable steps to make sure that those under 16 can't access social media." Some lawmakers, though, doubt it will actually work.

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SARAH HANSON-YOUNG, AUSTRALIAN SENATOR: This is a rubbish bill. It has no substance. It's almost embarrassing. I mean, this is boomers trying to tell young people how the internet should work.

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SANCHEZ: Let's discuss with CNN Media Analyst Sara Fischer, who's also Senior Media Correspondent for Axios. Also with us, Lisa Strohman, Clinical Psychologist who wrote the book Digital Distress: Growing Up Online. Sara, first to you, what could these reasonable steps from social media companies look like? And what did you think about that lawmaker describing the law as rubbish?

SARA FISCHER, SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT, AXIOS: I think a lot of people in the tech field agree with her. And that's because you run up against two big issues. One, in places like the United States, bans like this are almost unenforceable because of the First Amendment. You've seen various states introduce similar laws like in Utah, only for courts to strike them down, saying that they go against the, the Constitution. And then secondly, age verification online is really hard to do.

Now, this law requires the platforms, so social media companies to be the ones doing that age verification. But when you talk to platforms, they're going to argue that the responsibility should be really left to the device makers, whether that be the mobile phone manufacturer or the computer manufacturer. But overall, it's really hard to do age verification right.

If you were to introduce something like biometrics, you run into a ton of privacy data violation problems. And that's especially problematic with kids because you'll note in most countries, including the U.S. we have stricter data privacy laws for kids than we do adults. And then you also run up against the problem of government issued IDs. A lot of young people, as you know, especially under 16, they don't have any form of a government issued ID yet.

ACOSTA: And Lisa, I mean, 16 is the number here -- the key number here, in the U.S. social media firms allow children as young as, what, 13 to join. Is there, I mean, what does the science say about all of this? And what are the expectations that this -- that this could work?

I have to think, I was just saying this a few moments ago to Boris. A lot of parents are teenagers -- of teenagers are thinking, you know what, this sounds like a really good idea because you just can't get these teenagers to get off these phones and get off these apps.

[14:25:05]

LISA STROHMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yeah. I mean, I think that the science is very clear that at younger ages it is very problematic and it causes massive injury. As a psychologist, I've seen over the last two decades various issues, eating disorders, self-harm, suicide. So it definitely is impacted by the use of social media at particularly these young ages.

I think that Sara has a lot of really good points in terms of the legalities and some of the things that if we're looking at it from a bigger picture there, but the humanity of our children are in crisis, our families are not supported. And if we can give that balance back to the families and give them that extra three years.

As a psychologist, I tell parents, get them through middle school, get them into hopefully their junior year of high school, and that's really when kids can actually, I think, tolerate some of the things that come through those algorithms. So if you're just looking at it from a clinical perspective, then my doctor opinion is that I think it's a really great idea and we've got to figure out ways that we can make these age verifications work for families and for these kids.

SANCHEZ: Yeah, Lisa, because the danger isn't just psychological and issues of self-image and the sort of things that you've talked about. There are also concerns about how this sort of technology can actually change a young person's brain and their ability to focus.

Axios today had a piece labeling the next generation the snippet generation. At the risk of sounding like a dinosaur saying that TV rots your brain, I do wonder how social media can change a child's attention span.

STROHMAN: Yeah, I've talked a lot about the issue that I see of technology acquired ADD nobody really talks about. It's not a diagnosis by any event. But when I look through and talk through school systems and families and teachers, we definitely are changing the way that we're taking information in.

And so we have to look at it from a very large conceptual space and say, all right, are we educating? Are we managing it right? If we're going to be this new AI or open AI system, we're really not actually creating our own content, we're sifting through it and we're trying to figure out what information that that whole scrape is giving us and what we want to use for our own creative thoughts or how are we going to put our own spin on it. So it definitely is a totally different generation.

And to me, the power is giving that voice to the kids. And really bringing them in some of these conversations. And that's what I do through my programs and that's what I do as often as I possibly can. Because they truly are going to be the answer of how we manage this better in the future. We're not going to have an ability to have legislature that are, you know, average, in the average age of 60 to be able to really understand what our kids are going through.

ACOSTA: Yeah. And Sara, you were saying earlier it sounds like this is not going to happen in the U.S. Is it possible in any way, shape or form that you could see a crackdown on what these tech companies do in terms of, you know, really getting kids addicted on this stuff?

FISCHER: Absolutely. And I would argue that's the solution, right? Is instead of coming up with some sort of blunt law where it's virtually unenforceable, come up with various transparency measures, various changes to privacy measures so that you can make it a safer place for the kids that are using it. And that has been the route that we've been going on in the U.S.

I mean, if you look at the FTC, they've been urging to bring child privacy laws down from age 16 to age 13. They've been cracking down more on child policy -- policy violations. On companies like Meta and TikTok, the platforms are trying to introduce more children friendly features and products.

If you look at Meta, they've got messenger for kids. You know, TikTok has an under 13 policy, but then, you know, kids over 13 have a different experience which is much more moderated. That to me is the route that you should be going because it's actually enforceable.

Whereas if you look at what Australia is doing, it's so blunt trying to expect that these social media platforms are going to be able to actually do age verification otherwise face huge fires. What's going to end up happening is they're going to have to actually pull some of their features from these countries and that's not the viable solution either.

So I think from the U.S. perspective, we're actually kind of treading the right path here, trying to find that middle ground as opposed to doing something so blunt that it's not even possible.

SANCHEZ: It is going to be an ongoing debate, no doubt about that. Sara Fischer, Lisa Strohman, appreciate you joining us. Thanks so much.

FISCHER: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Still ahead, it's been three weeks since a woman in Hawaii disappeared during what was supposed to be a layover as she was traveling in Los Angeles. But Hanna Kobayashi's sister just revealed she has reason to believe the 30-year-old is still alive. We have new details after a quick break.

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