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Amazon Accused of Stopping Fast Deliveries; Keith Powers is Interviewed about the Murder of Brian Thompson; Defense Secretary Defends Women in Speech; Marc Caputo is Interviewed about Trump Team Floating DeSantis; Renewed Spotlight on Concussions; Ramaswamy Threatens Rivian Loan. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 05, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Quote, "concealed the exclusion and misled the consumers to believe it was a coincidence."

And now the attorney general, they want Amazon to stop what they're describing as unfair and deceptive practices, pay fines and refund customers.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: That's a serious allegation that they're - that they're throwing at Amazon. What is Amazon saying?

EGAN: Well, Amazon is categorically denying these allegations that they have been discriminatory or deceptive.

BOLDUAN: OK.

EGAN: But what's interesting is that Amazon is not denying that they have shifted their delivery options in those zip codes. What they're doing is they're -

BOLDUAN: So it's like denying the motive, not that it's happening.

EGAN: Exactly. They're saying that they did this because of concerns about crime. Specifically, they say that over the last several years there have been specific and targeted acts against their delivery drivers, including assault, armed robbery, carjacking and vehicle theft.

An Amazon spokesperson put out a statement saying, "we made the deliberate choice to adjust our operations, including delivery routes and times, for the sole reason of protecting the safety of drivers."

And Amazon says that they have offered to work with the D.C. attorney general to fight crime. But I do think the point here, Kate, in this lawsuit is, the AG is saying, yes, you can make these operational changes, you've just got to be upfront about it.

BOLDUAN: It's that they - the coincidence nature of it.

EGAN: Yes. BOLDUAN: Yes, I see. Interesting. All right, let's see what happens.

EGAN: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Matt.

Coming up for us, the search is on and still on for the gunman who killed a top executive at America's largest health insurance company. And there is new reporting about the two words found on the bullet - on bullet casings at the scene.

And Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, speaking at West Point, calling women in combat incredibly accomplished and incredibly brave. Something Donald Trump's pick to be the next Defense secretary has spoken out against.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:33]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we have new reporting this morning on the investigation and the manhunt, frankly, following the killing of healthcare CEO Brian Thompson right here in New York. Moments ago, law enforcement sources confirmed to CNN that the words "delay" and "depose" were written on shell casings of rounds used in the killings.

With us now is New York City Councilman Keith Powers.

Councilman, thanks so much for being with us.

These words, "delay" and "depose," these are words that are often used among people who are critics of the health insurance industry there. So, when you see these reports that those words written on, you know, not the murder weapon, but the murder bullets, what does that tell you?

KEITH POWERS, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: Well, it's scary because it does indicate, and seems to confirm, that this was a premeditated, targeted attack on the CEO, and has motivation behind it around something to do with the healthcare system or around coverage. But it's - it's scary because this really feels like it was a plotted out - plotted out attempt to - and, obviously, to take someone's life. And it's frightening. And we're hearing the same reports, that there were words on these bullets. So, it does seem to confirm what we - we've been hearing, that this was a targeted attack.

BERMAN: You represent the people of New York, you know, the borough of Manhattan. What are your concerns for safety this morning?

POWERS: Look, I want to make sure, obviously, that we have - I think we have the greatest police department in the world and we want to make sure that they can actually apprehend the person and bring them into custody so we can take appropriate action from there. But for people, you know, I'm talking to, it's a frightening situation that happened yesterday here on the streets of midtown. People do, obviously, understand this was a targeted, premeditated attack. We want to make sure the person gets apprehended.

BERMAN: Look, there are a lot of healthcare CEOs and people connected to the healthcare industry in general, health insurance, in New York City. Do you think they should all be taking precautions this morning?

POWERS: Look, I think there should be security measures put in place to help make sure those folks are safe because this person is still out there, number one. Number two, we heard people talking about other - other parts of the healthcare system and CEOs. So, yes, I think it's a good - I think it's a good moment to make sure that everyone's safe and they have the right security around them right now.

BERMAN: These pictures that we're seeing, you know, New York City, there are a lot of cameras. It's not like London where there's CCTV like everywhere. But there are cameras in a lot of different places here.

So, as you're watching the investigation be pieced together through these different images coming from different places, what does that tell you about, again, security and safety and law enforcement here?

POWERS: Well, what I'm always impressed by when we have anything that happens is how much the NYPD can get out and find footage and then do the investigation. It does seem like we're uncovering more pieces of information along the way over the last 24 hours. And I've been talking to folks at NYPD, and they say the investigation is still underway. Yes, they're getting more evidence. And we've gotten some more evidence this morning.

So, look, to me, it's - we have an ability to do a lot of - more than we used to be able to do. We do have footage. They have footage from Starbucks. We have footage from outside the hotel. So, I think, like I said, the NYPD is investigating - saying the investigation is underway. And I have confidence that we're going to bring this person into custody.

BERMAN: You're fully aware of the situation surrounding crime and perceptions of crime in New York City. What does this do to that, especially given that it was happening just hours before the Christmas tree lighting?

POWERS: Yes, look, we always are concerned about perception of crime and actually making sure that we're not - we have safety on the streets of midtown. I think this one, people understand it was a targeted attack. There was motivation.

[08:40:00]

But at the same time, it's a holiday season. We want people to be coming into Manhattan, certainly that part of Manhattan. So, we want to assure people that there are safety measures in place. And we also have to make sure we apprehend the suspect so that people can have real confidence that he's not still out there.

BERMAN: Councilman Keith Powers, thanks so much for being with us.

POWERS: Thank you.

BERMAN: Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin made a point of praising women in combat, even saying the topic gets him a little fired up in a speech at West Point. The comments are notable right now as President- elect Trump's pick to be the next defense secretary has very publicly spoken out against women serving in combat roles.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand following this one for us. She's here with us now.

What more did Lloyd Austin say?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, this is something that Secretary Austin has been pretty vocal about in recent weeks, particularly amid comments made by the secretary of Defense nominee, Pete Hegseth, on a podcast recently where he said that women in combat, quote, "hasn't made us more effective, hasn't made us more lethal, and has made fighting more complicated."

Secretary Austin has really sought to dispel that very forcefully in recent weeks, including most recently at this speech yesterday at West Point where he said, "this isn't 1950. It isn't 1948. It's 2024." And he actually told a story about his time in Iraq, while he was the commander of CENTCOM, where he said that he wanted to move a command post to the front line, and he asked both his women and his - his - his female and his male troops whether they would be comfortable with that, whether anyone wanted to not deploy forward. And here's a little bit of his recollection of what those women had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LLOYD AUSTIN, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Those women didn't flinch. They were facing the same dangers as the men. In fact, they were facing more. And in no uncertain terms, they were telling me to stop talking and get to the fight. And that is who the women of the United States military are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: So, a barely veiled reference there, of course, to the rhetoric that we have seen coming from Hegseth in recent weeks and years about women in combat, which was, of course, broadly open those combat roles to women under President Obama, and something that has continued to be fairly controversial among even some more moderate and mainstream Republicans in the House and Senate.

So, this may not be ultimately something that kills Pete Hegseth's nomination entirely, the fact that he opposes this role for women, but it is something, of course, that the secretary of Defense, while he still has time here in his post, he wants to speak out forcefully against.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And it also highlights, Natasha, and thanks for the reporting, is a question and one that should be asked of someone up for this huge post is their view on women in combat, that is kind of being left by the wayside in this moment when all of these other allegations are swirling. Questions that still need to be answered.

It's great to see you, Natasha. Thank you so much,

John.

BERMAN: So, while we're talking about Pete Hegseth, let's discuss the very public, at least not secret at all, floating of a possible replacement as a pick to be Defense secretary that happened in the last 24 hours out of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis.

With us now is Marc Caputo, national political reporter for "The Bulwark," one of the preeminent Florida reporters on earth.

And, Marc, I have to say, I'm so glad to be talking to you because for the last 24 hours, since you and others started reporting, that the DeSantis name was being really, honestly, publicly floated toward Pete Hegseth, my major question has been, what the what? Like, what's going on here?

MARC CAPUTO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE BULWARK": That's a good question. And a lot of people around Trump are asking the same question. This seems to be a Trump idea. And exactly what he's going for here is unclear. There's just a bunch of speculation.

I'm going to do something dangerous and say some of it. The chief one among Trump's circle of advisers, who largely were cut out of this conversation that Trump had with DeSantis, was that Trump is concerned that Hegseth is not going to cross the finish line. He's got these big plans that he wants to have for the Pentagon. He wants to get the woke out. Woke in air quotes there. And he also wants to reform it. He wants to cut some fat and find efficiencies. And if Hegseth can't do it, who does he want?

Well, he wants someone who's a big personality and someone whom he believes has the ability to do this sort of thing and has a military record. And DeSantis' name came top of mind.

Also, it's a way the floating of DeSantis' name to put pressure on Hegseth to step it up and either get the votes or get out. Hegseth, right now, is in the process of trying to get the votes. If he doesn't he's going to go the way of Matt Gaetz and he's going to get out.

BERMAN: You know, we had reporting, CNN did yesterday, that DeSantis was open to this idea.

CAPUTO: Yes.

BERMAN: And if it came to pass, he might like it.

CAPUTO: Yes. BERMAN: But - so what would he get out of this job? I mean what would be the - there are some political perils in this for DeSantis if he says yes.

[08:45:03]

CAPUTO: Oh, yes. I mean look at Mike Pence. The - he didn't do so hot in the Trump administration in the very end. He was his vice president. Working for Donald Trump is a tricky thing. You can get fired by tweet or by a Truth Social post. That's a problem.

But Ron DeSantis, as governor, who is only going to be able to serve for two more years. What's he going to do after that? And the Defense Department is an attractive job. It's a big, massive, mammoth agency. What, an $800 billion budget. Florida's budget, just in contrast, is about 117 billion.

This is a huge challenge. This is a - an agency, a department that needs reform. And the challenge of it would be attractive to Ron DeSantis. So, I think that's what he gets out of it.

What does Trump get out of it? He likes to have big names. RFK. He's got Marco Rubio and a whole bunch of other people who are chosen to be on his cabinet. They're not, obviously, confirmed yet. And DeSantis sort of checks that box.

Also, I understand, and there's a dispute as to when her name has come up in the discussions between Trump and DeSantis. But Trump's daughter-in-law, Lara Trump, is interested in filling that Marco Rubio Senate seat. And the two have discussed that I've been told. Now, the degree to which that discussion has been real and whether there's an actual trade, not very clear. There are denials there's a trade, but it's difficult to see how these two guys are going to talk about DeSantis coming into the cabinet, where another cabinet member has just vacated a Senate seat, Marco Rubio, and the president elect's daughter-in-law wants the seat. So, it's certainly come up and there's been chatter about it. That's what Trump gets out of it. Perhaps he gets more than DeSantis does.

BERMAN: And just one final question on this before I move back to RFK. But is there anyone within Trump world who might stand in the way of trying to bring Ron DeSantis into the fold because of bad blood? Anyone's names who might rhyme with, you know, schmooze (ph) and swiles (ph).

CAPUTO: I don't really put a lot of stock in the internet chatter that Susie Wiles is so concerned. Certainly they had a falling out. And just to be very clear, Susie Wiles was wronged by Ron DeSantis, who got rid of her and there was a peak of jealousy because she was getting credit for his come from behind win in 2018.

Wiles has succeeded in Trump's orbit because she serves the principle, she doesn't get in his way, and if he wants to do something, she helps make it happen.

In Susie Wiles' mind, from what I understand, she's moved past that unpleasant period in 2019, and presumably so has Governor DeSantis.

BERMAN: I just saw some new reporting from you - I think it was from you this morning, but you were certainly talking about it -

CAPUTO: Yes.

BERMAN: That of all these nominations that Trump has, there are a couple that - that, you know, he'll go to the mat for. Which ones are those?

CAPUTO: Tulsi Gabbard and RFK Jr. They were sort of what I had termed at the time, and a few people had called blue MAGA. They were sort of a dynamic duo for Trump on the campaign trail. They represent - both of them are former Democrats who have either turned independent or Republican. I can't remember how they switched their voter registration. But they helped bring into the fold not only new voters, those concerned about vaccines, vaccine skeptical and, yes, anti-vax people, and they bring a skepticism of the establishment and a hatred of the bureaucracy, to put it charitably.

And in addition to that, Tulsi Gabbard and RFK Jr. were also sort of cult figures among the podcasting right, or the Joe Rogan set, Patrick Bet-David, and they were an important part of Trump's coalition for him to get his message out. And he feels very strongly, from what I've been told, about these two.

Their nominations, or their appointments by Trump, has produced a lot of backlash, understandably so, from people concerned about RFK Jr.'s conspiracy theories, to Tulsi Gabbard's trip to Syria, where she met with Assad and made some pretty uncritical comments of the dictator. But Trump is obviously willing to overlook that. And he wants someone who's going to go in there and really shake things up. And I was told that if he has to bend arms, if he has to break arms when it comes to it, these are the two he's going to do it with.

BERMAN: Marc Caputo, great to talk to you. Excited as to what is ahead for you as well. Thanks so much.

All right, Trevor Lawrence now likely out for the rest of the NFL season because of a concussion. What questions should you be asking about your children playing football?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:53:45]

BOLDUAN: So, a rough hit. against Jacksonville Jaguars Trevor Lawrence reignited concerns over football head injuries just this week. Lawrence left that game and entered the NFL's concussion protocol Sunday. And that is what the questions that have been coming at our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta all of this week. He's back with us now to answer your questions about head injuries, these traumatic head injuries sustained in football.

And, Sanjay, there were a lot of viewer questions that really centered around kind of two main themes. A lot of viewers asking - like Chris in Alaska is one example, should - what this means for their family. "Should I encourage my son to play high school football?" Obviously, the flip side of that, or should I discourage them?

GUPTA: Right. Right.

First of all, I love the idea that we're getting these questions from Barrow, Alaska. That's - that's kind of - that's kind of (INAUDIBLE).

BOLDUAN: Yes, exactly.

GUPTA: And this is probably a question that I get more than any other, Kate. And, you know, I have three daughters. You have two daughters. So, maybe we don't get it as much personally. But just as a neurosurgeon should I let my kid play football, it's something that comes up all the time.

It's a - it's a very personal question. And I think, you know, there's obviously risks and rewards. There are significant rewards to playing sports, especially group sports. I mean we have an obesity epidemic.

[08:55:01]

We have a loneliness epidemic. Getting kids out there playing sports, very important.

When it comes to football in particular though, the concerns about chronic traumatic encephalopathy, CTE, is something that most people have heard of by now. And the thing to keep in mind about that is that we pay attention to the big hits, like we saw with Trevor and Tua and things like that. But even the smaller hits, they can build up over time. This is the thing to sort of keep in mind. They can build up over time. So, if you're playing for a longer time, you start at a young age, you can accumulate sort of the impact of those hits. And that's one of the things that comes up a lot, and especially with youth football, high school football, how to decrease those hits from a young age, helmetless practices, for example, but also making sure you take brain injury seriously. That you really have strict return to play criteria.

So, for Chris, talking to the coach about that. Making sure that there's a certified athletic trainer available as well to sort of monitor these things.

One thing I'll tell you quickly, Kate, we spent some time at Riverdale High School in the Bronx. What you're starting to see in some of these high schools is, they're starting to sort of change the game, recognizing these concerns. They've gotten rid of the kickoff return, for example, at Riverdale. So, they recognize that the kickoff return was kind of the most dangerous part of the game. So, they said, we could still have football without that part of the game. And that's what they - they've essentially done.

BOLDUAN: Yes, modifications rather than, you know - admittedly, football is one of my favorite sports. So, it's always sad to think -

GUPTA: I know. BOLDUAN: Discouraging more people from getting into such a great game.

But let me get to the next question. A number of viewers asked a question like Josh in Los Angeles about helmets specifically. "Why not design the helmet with a soft exterior to decelerate the actual impact to begin with?"

Helmet technology has definitely come a long way, but this remains a question.

GUPTA: It remains a question. And I - and let me just preface by saying, there is no such thing as a concussion-proof helmet. So I'll just preface by saying that. When the brain is moving within the skull, moving within the helmet, there's no helmet that can prevent that movement from happening.

But what - there's a lot of attention, though, to this question, Josh's question, about trying to do what's called a slowing down of deceleration. Here's what I mean. Brain, helmet moving in one direction. All of a sudden it stops. So, you're accelerating, and then you decelerate. What you want to do is slow down the rate of that deceleration. And what that basically - so, think about a car that crumples when it gets into a car accident. You're slowing down the rate of deceleration. Can you do the same thing with the brain?

There's this cap, Guardian Cap, you may have seen these, Kate, if you watch a lot of football. Some players are wearing them. They're sort of a soft exterior to the - to the helmet. And it's basically designed to do just that, to just slow down the rate at which the brain, within the skull, within the helmet, is decelerating. It's not concussion proof. But it does seem to lower the rate of significant impacts by about a third, according to some studies, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sanjay, it's so great to see you, always. This one, especially. So many families listening too. Thank you so much.

GUPTA: You got it. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, new questions about conflict of interest possibly after Vivek Ramaswamy said he's looking to pull back federal loan money to Rivian. The electric car maker is a competitor to Elon Musk's Tesla. Ramaswamy says it is high on the list of items that he will look at as part of his government efficiency panel that he will lead, with Musk himself. Rivian is set to receive a $6.6 billion conditional loan. Tesla received a similar loan back in 2010.

Let's get right to CNN's Rene Marsh for the details on this.

Good morning, Rene.

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Yes, Trump's DOGE, as it is known, has its sights set on clawing back billions in federal funds that's already been committed to states and companies supporting many agendas from Biden administration, like climate and energy goals.

And at the center of this controversy is this $6.6 billion loan to Rivian, which, as you noted, is a rival of Elon Musk's Tesla.

With DOGE's Vivek Ramaswamy saying to CNN that he is warning many of these agencies that these sort of late stage Biden administration payouts could be scrutinized and even reversed. He believes what he calls these last minute payouts are being done to achieve political agendas after the country voted for change. We should note that this Rivian loan that they are paying close attention to, which would fund a factory in Georgia, a red state, was in the works some two years ago.

But taking a step back and looking at the big - looking at the bigger picture here, this really is a move that's outside of the norms where you're talking about looking at clawing potentially back billions of dollars already committed by the federal government as a way to cut costs and cut spending by a new administration.

[09:00:05]

John.

BERMAN: Very quickly, Rene, what's the latest in terms of what's expected from these meetings today?