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New Clues In Search For Gunman Who Killed CEO In New York City; Sources: Biden White House Aides Weight Preemptive Pardons For Trump Critics; L.A. Times Owner Set To Introduce AI "Bias Meter" For Stories. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 06, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Say the man used a fake New Jersey driver's license to check into a hostel on the Upper West Side when he arrived, and that -- and that is where investigators were able to obtain the clearest view yet of who the suspect is, with a smile. This is a moment that the man pulled his mask down -- one of the few moments he's seen pulling his mask down while he was flirting with a female employee of the hostel.

Still, he clearly has not been found and he clearly has not been identified yet now 48 hours after he went on the run.

Joining us right now is a private investigator with 20 -- over 20 years of law enforcement experience. Brittney Blair is joining me now. Brittney, thanks for jumping on.

Forty-eight hours in now, where should the most energy be placed in this investigation do you think?

BRITTNEY BLAIR, RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT LEADER, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, K2 (via Webex by Cisco): Well, Kate, I mean, I say this all the time. Unfortunately, investigations like this don't -- they take a lot of physical and manual activity. It's not -- there's no magic button that you can press that's just going to immediately identify this guy and track him.

So right now I'm sure that all of the resources that NYPD and the federal agencies have are being thrown at both tracking and identifying every movement and every bit of this man's background so that they can -- they can get to him.

BOLDUAN: And the -- and the ability to track the movement -- just already what they've been able -- how they've been able to track him is pretty remarkable, including we have new reporting from John Miller today that attention is being -- some of the attention is being turned to the backpack. He -- it's a distinctive backpack that he was seen wearing. He's seen wearing it when he's enter -- when he enters Central Park when -- as he's running from the scene of the crime. And when he leaves Central Park, he does not have it.

How important is that backpack? BLAIR: I mean, the backpack is a critical element. It is an identifier and I'm sure that a lot of resources are being placed into trying to recover it because you have no idea what was in that backpack. Likely, a murder weapon, additional identifying details, DNA samples. All of that plays into an investigation like this.

BOLDUAN: And as this investigation is still going full throttle this has also put a spotlight on the private security efforts that so many fortune 500 companies undertake for their top executives. Brian Thompson's murder has these major companies now kind of reevaluating how they protect their executives in wake -- in the wake of this.

What kind of review do you think UnitedHealthcare and others like it are doing right now?

BLAIR: I mean, I think that unfortunately, incidents like this bring front of mind things that many of us don't want to think about, right? And so in my industry this is what someone like me is paid to do. We think through the worst of the worst-case scenarios. And a lot of corporate security and corporate security consultants come -- they come up with plans for all these worst-case scenarios and ways in which companies and CEOs, and executive C-suites can get ahead of it.

My -- one of my biggest things is online monitoring not just of threats but chatter. What are people saying? What are they talking about? Are they talking about your company? It's not always just your top executives. There's many levels in the C-suite and all of them can be targeted online. And if you are not gathering that intel and paying attention to inform your security posture, you're way behind the curve.

And I'm hoping that everyone is recognizing the importance of paying attention to what's being said online and to any potential threats. You have to take every threat as a serious threat.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, and what you're getting at -- and I also -- and I wanted to ask you about this -- what's happening online. Because his murder has unleashed as flood of rage and frustration on social media not about the murder but so much but at UnitedHealthcare.

I mean, as The New York Times put it, it's unleashed a torrent of morbid glee from patients and others who say they had negative experiences with health insurance companies.

You know, just a blatant lack of sympathy over the death of a man who is the husband and father of two -- and it's gross to see what people are saying.

But still, to your point, how does that factor into all of it?

BLAIR: It's -- I mean, it's every industry. Every single business is going to have an enemy because when you're interacting with the public you're touching people's lives. So the health care industry, of course, touches more lives than most industries. But the banking industry faces threats from people who feel wronged by a loan denial or a foreclosure. Stores and corporations who feel like their prices are too high.

These companies have a direct impact on people's everyday lives and that rage and -- is real. And unfortunately, online, people find communities, right, and they -- and they feel emboldened. And we live in a very unfortunate violent society where we have access to guns and there are access to means by which to enact violence, and no one is immune from it.

[07:35:10]

And unfortunately, we have to take all of this very seriously. And I think all companies have that potential. You have a potential to make an enemy when you do business with the general public.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, and now the need to sift through frustration to try to find the real -- you know, the real threat and the real danger there.

Brittney, thank you so much. It's good to -- it's good to have you.

BLAIR: And it --

BOLDUAN: John.

BLAIR: Yeah. Thank you so much.

BOLDUAN: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. New this morning, President-elect Trump's pick for defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, does not yet have the endorsement, at least publicly, from one of the one senators who might be able to secure his nomination, and that's Joni Ernst. And that nomination seems to be teetering on the balance still.

One Republican senator tells CNN that while he sees a path for Hegseth's confirmation, he has more work to do.

Let's get right to Capitol Hill. CNN's Lauren Fox is there. What are you hearing this morning?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, John, a lot of this is hinging on the days and weeks ahead.

And I think that Sen. Kevin Cramer put it best this week. He said I told Pete Hegseth the one thing that senators do not like is surprises. And moving forward what Republican lawmakers are looking at is does anything else come out? Are there other allegations that surface?

Some of these members had positive meetings with Pete Hegseth this week, including Sen. Mike Rounds, who said that he could potentially, at some point, get to yes on Hegseth. Yes, he thought Hegseth had more work to do.

But the confirmation right is going to be one that takes some time and it's going to center around how Pete Hegseth does in a confirmation hearing. That'll happen in a public setting. A lot of these meetings -- you know, senators are asking sensitive questions behind closed doors. That all changes when you move to more of a public setting.

Once again, all eyes are on Sen. Joni Ernst, a Republican from Iowa who sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee and is someone who has been very outspoken about believing that women should be allowed to be in combat -- something that Pete Hegseth has made comments about, saying that he didn't believe that they should be. I think that those kinds of questions are going to be really central to the days and weeks ahead.

But here's what Sen. Ernst said about her vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): We will continue with the vetting process. I think that is incredibly important.

BILL HEMMER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR, "AMERICA'S NEWSROOM": It doesn't sound on your answer that you've gotten to a yes. If I'm wrong about that, correct me. And if that is the case it sounds to me as if the hearing will be critical for his nomination. Am I right about that?

ERNST: I think -- I think you are right. I think for a number of our senators they want to make sure that any allegations have been cleared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: Now, one key thing to keep in mind in the days ahead, John, is that Hegseth was able to accomplish on the Hill not a barrage of no votes this week, right? He was able to keep many senators keeping the door open to his nomination, and that potentially could be enough to keep his nomination floating for the next days and weeks ahead.

He does have more meetings on Capitol Hill next week. Obviously, we're going to be pressing lawmakers on whether or not they are getting comfortable with Hegseth and ultimately being ready to vote for him -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Lauren Fox for us on Capitol Hill.

With us now is CNN political commentators Paul Begala and Shermichael Singleton.

So there's been reporting that the Trump team and Hegseth himself were hoping that Joni Ernst, the senator from Iowa, would come out and say she was a yes vote or at least more body language to the effect that she might be a yes vote. That clearly didn't happen in that sound bite we just heard right there.

And then there's this from The Washington Post, Paul. This says, "Hegseth has been told not to expect Trump to apply pressure to Republican senators to get him over the finish line" -- I think we have a graphic of this -- "according to two people familiar with the discussions."

So, Ernst not at a yes; Trump not making calls. What does that spell for you, Paul?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (via Webex by Cisco): Well, it says there's two paths to Mr. Hegseth leading the Pentagon, slim and none. It's not going to happen, OK.

Donald Trump is not afraid of a camera. He knows how to make his case. He's not doing it and there's a reason. He's cutting the guy loose. This is -- I know Mr. Hegseth used to star on chat show on Fox News but this is a show called walking dead. And maybe Pete doesn't know it, but every sign is that Trump is cutting this guy loose.

BERMAN: Shermichael, why wouldn't Trump make phone calls or say something publicly?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah, I think if I'm advising the president-elect I'm going to say let's just wait. We don't know if there's anything that hasn't come out yet that could come out in the next couple of weeks.

[07:40:00]

And as an adviser -- and Paul knows this very, very well, John -- you want to protect and insulate your principal from any potential political damages, particularly this early on after what we saw with Matt Gaetz.

Now, our Kaitlan Collins had Tim Parlatore on last night. That's Pete's attorney. He said that they recently received the documents to complete the FBI background check. That was very smart. Paul's been through that process more than I have. I've gone through it once. It's a very detailed process. They are going to spend weeks and months looking into his background and we'll see what comes out.

But in terms of actual raw strategy I think this is the best decision that an adviser can give to the president-elect, and I'm glad the president-elect is following it. Let's see what happens. Allow Pete the space to defend himself, but let's not put you out there so that those political arrows if you will are coming in our direction.

BERMAN: Shermichael, is time on Hegseth's side here or not?

SINGLETON: Yeah, John. Like, I was just looking at some watches before we went live. Time is on no one's side in this particular incident.

Look, you wanted Joni Ernst to come out and say I'm absolutely behind Pete. Now, to Pete's credit she sort of left the door open.

But the question becomes if you're a part of Pete's team -- that inner circle -- if you're the sherpa -- the guy that sort of -- or gal that's walking Pete around to all of these senators and having those private meetings, can you buy another week? Can you buy another two weeks? That certainly helps. But Christmas is coming, so can you potentially push it to Christmas? Senators go on break pretty soon.

That certainly all is in his interest, but I would say the clock is ticking.

BERMAN: Paul, does this get to a hearing?

BEGALA: No, no. I hope it gets to an FBI background check because when you speak to that -- Shermichael is right. I've been through them. When you speak to the FBI you have to tell the truth. If you don't you run into my good friend 18 U.S. Code 1001, which is a felony to lie to the FBI.

Mr. Hegseth says that these many accusations of really appalling conduct are untrue. OK, maybe. So let's get everybody under oath. Let's get them in front of the FBI. If we -- if it gets that far get him in a committee hearing where they'll have to swear to tell the truth. And that's not going to go well for Pete Hegseth.

I could be wrong. Maybe everybody is lying about this wonderful guy but, you know, maybe not. Maybe these allegations of really disgusting behavior are true. And so the FBI will sus that out.

BERMAN: The lawyer does say -- Tim Parlatore does say that Pete Hegseth has begun filling out that FBI background check, so we will see if it is --

SINGLETON: That's right.

BERMAN: -- completed and turned in, and whatnot.

All right, how do you feel about preemptive pardons, Shermichael? Gerald Ford did it for Richard Nixon. The White House -- people within the White House, I should say, apparently having discussions about pardoning individuals they fear might be targeted in the incoming Trump administration.

What would the impact of that be, Shermichael?

SINGLETON: Yeah, Gerald Ford. George H.W. Bush I believe during the Iran Contra scandal. Paul, you know more about that. I wasn't even born yet. So --

BERMAN: That was unnecessary.

SINGLETON: -- I get it because these are -- these are examples, John, though of people that have been alleged of doing something wrong. The belief at the time was, in the case of Nixon, that maybe charges would potentially come. So the president decided look, this is in the best interest of the country.

I think the differentiator here, however, is these folks haven't even been alleged of having done anything illegal. And so I just really question if we sort of open this Pandora's box do we just say well, any president at any time in history can say well hey, my buddy -- I'm just going to go ahead and pardon them because once I leave I don't want my political adversaries to potentially do something that's damaging?

I'm just very skeptical of this. It's one thing if someone's been alleged of something. It's another thing if they've been found guilty, they've served time, maybe they didn't serve time. Sure, give a pardon. I'm in support of that.

But if it's to give a pardon just because we think something may happen, I just don't support that. That's a lot of executive authority and power that I think goes beyond the pale for my personal comfort, John, particularly --

BERMAN: All right.

SINGLETON: -- as a conservative. We need some limitation to get the pardon power.

BERMAN: All right. Just again, one more warning -- and I wasn't even born yet. Not at my table. You're not dropping that again here, Shermichael.

SINGLETON: (Laughing).

BERMAN: But Paul -- the pure politics of it, Paul -- the pure politics of it, good, bad, politics -- the idea of these preemptive pardons?

BEGALA: Oh, I don't think -- I don't think it has a huge political effect one way or the other.

The problem here and the unprecedented thing -- and I go back much earlier than Shermichael -- I never -- actually, talking to President Benjamin Harrison about this when I was (INAUDIBLE).

(LAUGHTER)

BEGALA: What's unprecedented is the preemptive indictment effective. The man who is about to control the most awesome prosecutorial apparatus in the world has already named names. He's said this in the campaign: If you elect me, I'm going to go after -- and he named names. Liz Cheney, Gen. Mark Milley, a four-star general, his own chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He, of course, threatened Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, and Hillary -- everybody.

[07:45:08]

So that's why these are necessary. I want Joe Biden to do it. And politics be damned. He's not running for anything else anymore. They'll all do a lot better politically than the pardon of Mr. Biden's son.

So, yes, it's because Mr. Trump has pledged that he will abuse our prosecutorial apparatus to go after his political adversaries, and that's unconscionable. So, yeah, Biden ought to protect those men and women who are I think heroes.

BERMAN: All right, Paul Begala, Shermichael Singleton.

SINGLETON: John! John! John! Can I quickly --

BERMAN: We -- I can't. They're yelling at me.

BEGALA: Oh, let the kid back in. Let the kid back in.

BERMAN: You wouldn't believe -- you wouldn't believe what's being hurled at my ear now, Shermichael, and those are Kate's hands coming for my neck.

All right, Paul and Shermichael, thank you both very much.

BEGALA: I see them. I see them. Thank you, guys.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: All in love. All in love.

AI could now be utilized to measure bias in the next news article that you read. The biotech billionaire who owns the Los Angeles Times says that he plans to implement an AI bias meter on news articles in his publication. He says it will help give readers both sides of the story.

The journalists working for that paper are pushing back. The union representing them says with this move their boss is publicly suggesting his own staffers harbor bias without offering evidence.

CNN's Hadas Gold has much more on this. And there are tons of questions about this. How does this work, and what is the real impact of it?

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I mean, that's one of the biggest questions because we don't actually know many details about how this will work. Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong made this announcement actually on a podcast with CNN's own Scott Jennings who he has invited to join the L.A. Times editorial board -- part of this push to add more conservative voices to the L.A. Times.

All we know so far is what he said on this podcast. He said, "Somebody could understand as they read it that the source of the article has some level of bias. And what we need to do is not have what we call confirmation bias and then that story automatically, the reader can press a button and get both sides of the exact same story based on that story and then give comments."

Now, first of all, a lot of questions. What he's assuming from the get-go from this statement is that the story itself will not be showing --

BOLDUAN: Exactly.

GOLD: -- multiple sides of a story, which most journalists when they are doing their level best to show an entire story, they are showing both sides of the story. They are getting quotes and comments from all sides of a story.

There's also a lot of questions about what will this AI be? What metrics will it use? What sort of large language model will it be using because as we know, AI systems themselves can be biased? So what will this system be? What will it look like? A lot of questions.

Now, this is all part of the mounting changes we've seen Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong institute at the paper that he's owned since 2018. It started when, of course, he blocked the editorial board from their planned endorsement of Vice President Kamala Harris that led to several resignations at the paper. It morphed into him totally wanting to revamp the opinion pages. He's inviting more conservative voices, saying he wants to bring balance and bring trust back to the newspaper.

Now we know that prior to publishing opinion pieces those headlines must go to him personally to be approved. I've never really heard of that happening at another newspaper where an owner, especially somebody like a billionaire owner who has a lot of other businesses, wants to personally approve headlines on opinion pieces. And now we're seeing this bias meter on the story.

And it's interesting if you're following his social media presence, which a lot of the journalists at the L.A. Times are. He has wholeheartedly endorsed a lot of the nominees that President Trump has put forward. Endorsed some of his policies that he has put forward.

The L.A. Times union, as you noted, has said that this bias meter is publicly suggesting that his staff harbors bias without offering evidence or examples. We've seen some resignations from the paper -- more resignations -- and I've heard from L.A. Times journalists a lot of concern. You know, this guy was once seen as the savior of the L.A. Times and now they're very concerned of what the future of the L.A. Times could look like.

BOLDUAN: I mean, so many questions. This is great reporting. Please stay on top of this. And one of the people who has resigned from the L.A. Times will be joining us later in the show. Thank you so much, Hadas -- John.

BERMAN: All right. A groundbreaking new study reveals that lead exposure may have been the cause of more than 150 million cases of mental illness in the United States.

And it is the end of the Eras era. What can fans expect next as Taylor Swift wraps up her record-breaking world tour?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER-SONGWRITER: Singing "You Need to Calm Down."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:53:50]

BOLDUAN: President-elect Donald Trump's pick to be the next head of the FBI is thrilling followers of QAnon. They were celebrating as soon as Trump announced Kash Patel, as Patel has openly praised the right wing conspiracy movement that is embodied on that site. It lionizes Donald Trump and demonizes the federal government. QAnon an epicenter of all of the deep state theories that are out there.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan dives into this one.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: We are here in beautiful sunny Florida right by Mar-a-Lago. We're on our way to meet a QAnon influencer.

JEFFREY PEDERSEN, HOST, "THE MG SHOW": What you know you can't explain.

O'SULLIVAN: For years, Jeffrey Pedersen, a former I.T. guy, has been running the "Matrixxx Grooove" show.

PEDERSEN: Welcome back to the MG Show where the truth is learned, it's never told.

O'SULLIVAN: It's a show devoted to all things QAnon --

PEDERSEN: If you think QAnon is bad you're believing the mainstream news.

O'SULLIVAN: -- deciphering the cryptic codes from Q and trying to figure out the deep state and the Kabul and everything else.

[07:55:00]

PEDERSEN: This is Q post 1828. This is the spy op.

O'SULLIVAN: And the reason we're here is because he has had as a guest on his show Kash Patel, who might become the next FBI director.

PEDERSEN: Kash is on the show today. Let's bring him in right now.

KASH PATEL, TRUMP'S PICK FOR FBI DIRECTOR: You guys are the best. I love being on your program.

O'SULLIVAN: Patel has dipped his toe into this QAnon world a bit over the years, has flirted with it.

PATEL: On Truth Social there's a Q account.

MARY GRACE, OWNER AND FOUNDER, MARY GRACE MEDIA NETWORK, HOST, "MARY GRACE MEDIA": Oh, boy.

PATEL: Whether or not it's the real Q I'm not going to get into it.

GRACE: Are you a Q liker (PH)?

PATEL: Like -- no. So like everything else you have to have fun with it. The Q thing is a movement. A lot of people attach themselves to it. I disagree with a lot of what that movement says but I agree with what a lot of that movement says.

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): The QAnon movement has long been associated with radicalization and hate, and QAnon ichnography was seen throughout the January 6 mob.

PEDERSEN: Is that Donie O'Sullivan?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes.

PEDERSEN: It's a pleasure.

O'SULLIVAN: He was posted how many times?

PEDERSEN: Four thousand nine hundred sixty-seven times.

O'SULLIVAN: Q posted about Kash Patel.

PEDERSEN: Yes, twice.

O'SULLIVAN: And said?

PEDERSEN: Kashyap Patel -- a name to remember.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Q has been so right on so many things. I'll get off that subject.

PATEL: No, he has, and I'll -- I agree with you. He has. He has. And you've to take a -- you've got to harness that following that Q has garnered and just sort of tweak it a little bit. That's all I'm saying. He should get credit for all the things he has accomplished because it's hard to establish a movement.

O'SULLIVAN: Who is Q?

PEDERSEN: I don't know. Q says it's 10 people, three non-military -- less than 10. We don't know. I see people trying to say that Kash is Q. You can't prove that. I can't prove that.

O'SULLIVAN: For a lot of people, Kash Patel engaging in the world of Q and QAnon at all -- they'll say well, that's disqualifying.

PEDERSEN: What we are going to find out is that we have a mandate in America and we want the FBI cleaned. You know, 99 percent of the FBI is good but there's one percent that is not good.

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): The anonymous Q persona hasn't posted in a few years, but the world of QAnon is very real for people like Jeffrey.

PEDERSEN: News unlocks what the Q posts are. Like -- you know, like, for example, Kashyap Patel, a name to remember. Kashyap Patel has just been nominated as the FBI director, right? That's a Q proof -- what we call it.

O'SULLIVAN: Couldn't I just say well, Q has posted 5,000 times. He just posted a name -- like --

PEDERSEN: Yeah. You can absolutely say that and -- but what about all the other names? O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): In our interview, Jeffrey made it very clear that he condemns violence. He's not a fan of the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, or other groups that conspired to cause violence on January 6.

PEDERSEN: I always say we're not going to make fun of liberals because we're going to be here for them when they wake up.

O'SULLIVAN: But there is a lot of portrayal of Democrats -- of people on the left of being evil.

PEDERSEN: Yeah.

O'SULLIVAN: Do you think they're evil?

PEDERSEN: Not all of them, no. Do I think there are some? Yes. Like Hillary Clinton maybe. I don't know.

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): As for Kash Patel, Jeffrey and other QAnon influencers welcome him as the country's top law enforcement officer.

PEDERSEN: I think the American people will be happy that Kash Patel is going to straighten out what they've done to President Donald J. Trump in the FBI. And I think America should be happy as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'SULLIVAN: And a spokesperson for the Trump transition dismissed any links between QAnon and Kash Patel and described our story as pathetic attempt at guilt by association -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Donie, great reporting as always -- John.

BERMAN: All right. This morning the FBI looking into drones spotted flying in New Jersey over critical installations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The creepy part is not that it's just a drone; that they're so large.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They look like a small car to me. Their wing spans are probably six feet across.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And the Jersey police chief says drones have been reporting flying over water reservoirs, electric transmission lines, rail stations, police departments, and military installations.

Anyone caught flying drones over restricted areas like this could get hit with a $75,000 fine -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: I think it would be hard to hide a drone that's the size of a car. It's crazy. A groundbreaking new study reveals exposure to leaded gasoline may have contributed to more than 150 million mental health diagnoses in the United States. Cars ran on gas containing lead for decades starting in the 1920s and now scientists believe the exhaust fumes may be linked to anxiety, depression, and ADHD in older generations.

CNN's Meg Tirrell has much more on this. This is fascinating, Meg. Tell us more.

MEG TIRRELL CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kate. So we know that lead was added to gasoline between 1923 and 1996 in the United States. We started to learn about some of the health impacts even before it was phased out finally in the '90s.

And we know that lead has terrible impacts on the brain, and this has been linked to lower I.Q., for example, in previous studies.

But what this study did was take estimates of blood lead levels from leaded gasoline exposure in car exhausts from everybody back through the decades and then paired that with what's known about the connection between blood lead levels and mental health diagnoses.