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Julie Su is Interviewed about the Jobs Report; Harry Litman is Interviewed about "L.A. Times" Using AI; Christopher Cross and Garret Price is Interviewed about "Yacht Rock." Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 06, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:33]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news this morning. A new monthly jobs report just released, and it was a welcome jobs outlook after - for November after a very dismal October. The U.S. economy adding 227,000 jobs in the month of November. The unemployment rate ticking up just slightly.

Joining us now to talk about this is the acting secretary of labor, Julie Su.

Secretary, thank you for coming back in.

This is seen as a strong report. Jobs bouncing back after that rough October moment. Take this report and add it to reflect on really the last year. What is your one line - your headline on what this year has meant for the labor market and the economy.

JULIE SU, ACTING SECRETARY OF LABOR: Yes. It's been a historic, economic recovery. We are in a period of continued growth, and this demonstrates what happens when you put workers first. I think that's the one sentence version. I will say, you know, October was an aberration. We talked about this last time because we were - we were hit by two hurricanes, and there were tens of thousands of workers on strike. This month's report is much more consistent with what we've seen throughout the year, which is a story of continued growth. This is the only administration that will leave office having seen job growth every single month since we've been here. And that's when you consider what - what we faced when we came in here with the pandemic and the economy hurtling toward collapse and many people saying that it was going to be impossible to recover as quickly as we have. Something that we - we're happy to see and also, you know, proud to, you know, hand off and hope for continued strength and growth that is really inclusive and continues to prioritize working people.

BOLDUAN: Now, this could be the last time that I have the chance to speak with you in this capacity of yours as acting secretary of labor. Historic, economic recovery is an amazing campaign slogan when people are struggling in the economy. And right before the election you talked to us - you came on the show and you talked about recovery as being what it means when stable leadership makes a difference. Investments we're making have powered an historic economic recovery. But as we know, voters did not agree. People voted for Donald Trump

because of how unhappy they still were with the economy. So, what went wrong from your perspective?

SU: I mean the story of the economy is what it is, right? The facts are very clear. It's not just the things we just said. It's also the fact that real earnings are up. You know, the data shows that very clearly. Wages are going up while inflation is coming down. That means, I've said this before too, you know, more money in the pockets of working families. That is really important.

I think some of what we faced, and, you know, this is also very, very real, right, working people have been seeing their situation decline for decades. It's going to take more than four years to reverse that. And it's going to take more than four years for people to really feel secure again, especially after the economic uncertainty that we've had of, you know, recently, right, caused by the public health pandemic, but also a number of other factors.

And people are unhappy about income inequality. That is a - something that's been growing for a very, very long time. And we prioritized tackling that. But again, those changes will not happen overnight. People wanted to see infrastructure investments. They want to see manufacturing come back. Those were all - not just campaign promises, but real, tangible things that we worked to deliver. And we have seen reversals in terms of the downward trend for workers in all of those fronts.

But they will take more time to do. The reality is that much of what we've put in place, the benefits of those things are going to be seen in two years, in four years. And so, we are handing off the strongest economy in history to the next administration. And the hope is that, you know, there will be continued investments in that way because we've certainly seen it work.

And I expect that the, you know, the dooms day scenarios about the economy that were stated during the campaign will reverse pretty quickly come January because the reality - you know, facts don't lie and the reality is what it is. But there's still struggles for working people. Those are very, very real. That's why I've come in every single day laser focused on what we can do to make that better.

[09:35:01]

And that work definitely remains.

BOLDUAN: Acting Labor Secretary Julie Su, thank you very much for coming in. Appreciate your time.

Coming up for us, more backlash coming from inside the "L.A. Times." The owner of "The Times" now says he's going to use AI to bias check articles in his own publication, adding to other controversial decisions he's made recently and leading to uproar in the newsroom. One of his columnists just resigned. They join us next.

So, what is the perfect way to start the weekend? If that is the question on your mind, maybe door number one or two is a healthy dose of yacht rock. Award-winning musician Christopher Cross joins us live.

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[09:40:06]

BOLDUAN: So, AI could now be - soon be utilized to measure bias in the next news article that you read. The biotech billionaire who owns "The Los Angeles Times" now says he has plans to implement an AI bias meter on news articles in his publication. He says it will help give readers both sides of the story, but journalists working for that paper are pushing back. The union representing them says that with this move their boss is publicly suggesting his staffers harbor bias without offering evidence.

This decision, and others recently, have already led to some notable departures from the publication, including someone you may recognize. Harry Litman, who has appeared here on CNN NEWS CENTRAL multiple - many times, is now a former contributor to "The L.A. Times" since he just resigned. In doing so he wrote this, in part, that Patrick Soon- Shiong has made moves to force the paper into a posture more sympathetic to incoming President Donald Trump.

Harry joins us now to talk more about this.

Harry, thanks for coming in.

You spent 15 years working with "The L.A. Times." Why walk away now?

HARRY LITMAN, FORMER LEGAL AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, "L.A. TIMES": Yes. Well, now I think we're at a really very critical juncture, Kate. We have a crippling problem in the country that we can't even agree on what the facts are. And it's the indispensable role of the media, in that setting, to tell us, first and foremost, what the facts are. To get to your A-1 proposal, I think they can tabulate different people's views and the like, but it won't tell us what's true.

And I think "The L.A. Times" knows what's true. I think CNN and MSNBC and Fox knows what's true. And that's got to be the north star, especially because it happens that we have a president-elect who doesn't have much regard for the truth. So in that setting, the idea of balance really means sort of tacking toward him. And when you begin to tack toward a powerful leader based on caprice but not truth, you know that's what happens in authoritarian societies, not democracies.

And Trump has captured so many of the important checks and balances and guardrails. And if the media doesn't stand up, we're in a woeful state. Two of the most prominent papers in the country, "The L.A. Times" and "The Washington Post," pulled endorsements for no real reason other than their personal stakes. That - that I found to be a really alarming development.

BOLDUAN: What do you think really was behind it for Patrick Soon- Shiong, in terms of pulling the endorsements? Because part of the discussion, especially around the Bezos decision with "The Washington Post," Harry, as you know, was kind of an - I'll call it a fruitful discussion of, if there's an argument to be made, that papers shouldn't be in the business of, even if it's the editorial page, making endorsements at all.

LITMAN: Well, first, I don't agree with that. I mean papers make their overall judgments. And "The L.A. Times," of course, had gone for a couple of years making judgments, and that would have led naturally to an endorsement that was pulled at the last second.

Why, I don't want to try to psychoanalyze the paper, but I know what it wasn't. It wasn't any thought about Trump's immigration policies or Harris' problems. It was something else. And both of these papers are owned by people with multiple holdings.

And Trump has made clear, if you mess with me, I'm coming at you. And the media is his target. Others have been cowed by that. Media, in the past, have not. Think about Watergate and the finest moments of the media. So, it - it - if it's in response to that, and there's - there's no other really apparent reason, that really bodes ill, not just for the paper and the readers, but for all of us who have to look to established media, to tell us the facts of the matter. And that's what seems to be the sacrifice here.

BOLDUAN: One thing we do know, even if you're not contributing to "The L.A. Times" anymore, you will continue to contribute to the discussion going forward. We know that about you, Harry. That is for sure.

LITMAN: Yes, ma'am.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you. Thank you for coming in.

LITMAN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: All right, a documentary so revealing, so emotionally charged its makers were cursed out by Steely Dan's Donald Fagen. We have a brand-new look at how yacht rock became so cool again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): It is the night, my body's weak (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The term "yacht rock" emerged from comedy show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of a sudden this new genre we made up started to get embraced by the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yacht rock!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[09:49:07]

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CHRISTOPHER CROSS, MUSICIAN (singing): Sailing takes me away to where I've always heard it could be.

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BERMAN: That is the immortal Christopher Cross singing "Sailing," which hit number one on the - it helped him rewrite the record books when it comes to the Grammy's. He was part of a rock movement we did not even know was happening at the time. It now has a name, "yacht rock." How it got there - how it even got that name is the subject of a wildly popular new documentary that just debuted on Max.

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CHRISTOPHER CROSS, MUSICIAN (singing): You don't know me, but I'm your brother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It rocks, but it doesn't rock too hard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He'll be saying (INAUDIBLE) hey, it's going to be OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's perfect (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) known as "yacht rock."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:50:05]

BERMAN: I can't not smile.

With me now is the director of the documentary, Garret Price, and the Grammy winning legendary musician, Christopher Cross.

Thank you both so much for being with me, gentlemen.

Garret, let me just put this to you first. What exactly is "yacht rock"? How did it get that name? And why the documentary?

GARRET PRICE, FILM DIRECTOR: Yes, it definitely wasn't called "yacht rock" in the 70s, right, Chris?

CHRISTOPHER CROSS, GRAMMY-AWARD WINNING MUSICIAN: Absolutely.

PRICE: This - this is a name that came about through a low budget comedy - comedy series in the mid-2000. There were these guys that made up this name that loved this music. They kind of created these vignettes of this alt history of these musicians making this really incredible pop music at the time. And they kind of created a monster. It just stuck.

But I was interested in actually talking to the artists themselves. (INAUDIBLE) and with this word (INAUDIBLE) but give them a platform to define their music they were making at the time. And that's, you know, why I brought in Chris and Michael and the (INAUDIBLE) guys.

BERMAN: And I have to say, it was just magical what you came up with. And, Christopher Cross, you were on the Mt. Rushmore of "yacht rock," which wasn't called "yacht rock" when you were doing it. So, as I mentioned, you know, it was "Sailing" with your debut album. You hit the - the quad-fecta. I don't know what else to call it. Broke all records at the Grammy's. You won, what, best album, best record, best song, best new artist at the same time. No one had ever done that.

What was it you thought you were doing at the time when you were breaking all these records?

CROSS: Well, you know, in my case, John, I was pretty overwhelmed, to tell you the truth of what happened. It was pretty meteoric. So, I was just trying to hang on for dear life, to tell you the truth.

But, you know, we were all songwriters. And that's really what it's about. I think, you know, for me being influenced by Joni Mitchell, Randy Newman and great songwriters, and that's all I ever wanted to be was a songwriter, and all the rest was just trimmings. But I think all of us, it was all about the songs.

BERMAN: And what I - I learned so much from this documentary. But one of the things I genuinely didn't know was how much cross-pollination there was among all the artists. "Ride Like the Wind," Michael McDonald's voice, which, now that I hear it again and again, I mean it's unmistakable in it. I mean how was it working with so many of these people at that time?

CROSS: Well, it was great. It was so, you know, it was a community. You know, we were like a fraternity of brothers, really. And everybody shared. In Michael's case, he was recording with the Doobie Brothers across the hall, and we invited him over to hear what we were doing. And he was gracious and offered to lend his voice to an artist that nobody had ever heard of. I was a nobody.

So, that's the way it was. People didn't have a lot of ego in it. They were just doing it for the music. And, like I said, the songwriting production. And it was - it was a wonderful fraternity to be part of, I can tell you.

BERMAN: I mean, I suppose you could now call it a yacht club. Forgive me for that, but it was just hanging out there. Low hanging fruit for me to grab right there.

And while we're talking about "Ride Like the Wind," I have to say, on my bingo card, and I didn't know this, I didn't have Christopher Cross earning a living as a pot dealer as he was trying to make music. And then why don't you just tell our audience how it was you came to write "Ride Like the Wind."

CROSS: Well, Paul McCartney has a song called 1985, when he was with Wings. And we used to play that song in clubs and kind of go into a jam. And when I started doing the ba, da, da, dat, dat, dat, people just seemed to really perk up on the dance floor. So, I said, I got - I got something here. And then I decided to write a song around that riff. So, I have to thank Paul for the original idea. And then, actually, I have to admit, I was driving down to Austin,

Texas, from Houston, to - to make the demos of the song. And I had taken acid and just - the sun was out and I had my yellow pen and I wrote the lyric to the song on the way to the studio in Austin over three hours.

I mean, that's just the - that's just the truth of it. And so, fortunately, my kids are older now, so they could accept -

BERMAN: Sometimes the truth is just the truth.

CROSS: What's that?

BERMAN: I said, sometimes the truth is just the truth.

CROSS: Yes, the truth - yes, it is the truth. And I do want to give a plug here to my daughter. She was one of the producers on the - on the doc, Madison Cross. So, I - you know, she's a good friend of Garret's. So I was, you know, doubly proud about the doc because it, you know, celebrates our music, but my daughter was involved, so that was great.

BERMAN: So, as I mentioned, Christopher Cross clearly on the Mt. Rushmore of "yacht rock."

You know, Michael McDonald, everywhere there. But then also Steely Dan, Garret.

PRICE: Yes.

BERMAN: And you, in the documentary, you talk about sort of the inspiration that Steely Dan was for everyone in it. And you, as any good filmmaker would want to do, wanted to reach out to, you know, the founding member, the driving force behind Steely Dan, Donald Fagen. And I just want to play that conversation for people.

Listen.

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PRICE: Hello, Mr. Fagen.

DONALD FAGEN, FOUNDING MEMBER, STEELY DAN: Yes, this is - this is he.

PRICE: Yes, hi, this is - this is Garret. I'm the one making this "yacht rock" documentary.

FAGEN: Uh-huh.

PRICE: Yes, so I've been talking to a lot of people that have played with you and Steely Dan over the years, and I was wondering if you'd sit down with me and talk about your music and this genre?

FAGEN: And what genre is that?

PRICE: Um, "yacht rock."

[09:55:03]

FAGEN: Oh, "yacht rock." Well, I tell you what, why don't you go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) yourself.

PRICE: I think Donald Fagen hung up on me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So - so, Garret, I played that to ask this question basically. As you were exploring this, how did you find that these artists looked at it now and looked at what has become now? What did they generally think?

PRICE: Yes, I think, you know, I think a lot of them were allergic to the word when it first came out, you know? They didn't like their music to be labeled, let alone feel like an internet joke, which is essentially what this word was. It's like the OG meme, right? It was early YouTube days.

But I think, you know, the creators of the word, when they said the word "yacht," they meant just really expensive, well-produced, sheen, grand music. I don't think they were really thinking of the nautical side of things. So, I think there was a little bit of a cross, you know, miscommunication there.

But I think, Chris, we talked about this, I think you can't deny that it's brought a legion of new fans to your music. And - and people are rediscovering this music, which I think is really special too, that might have maybe abandoned it years ago.

So, I think, in the end, it's probably a good thing. It gets people in the door. And I think a lot of people in this world, ironically, because -

CROSS: Yes, I mean, I thought - John, I thought it was pretty -

BERMAN: Go ahead, Chris.

PRICE: Yes, go ahead, Chris.

CROSS: Yes, I thought, John, I thought it was pretty kitschy - kitschy when I saw the videos, to tell you the truth. But - but I played a show last night in San Antonio and look out in the audience and there are all these sailor hats and a lot of them are young people. So, Garret's right, it's brought the music to a younger audience, and we're all grateful for that.

BERMAN: Well, like I said, the documentary really is wonderful. It tells - I had no idea it was based on a web series. I really didn't. I had no idea about all the cross, you know, pollination between all the artists, and the stories that you all told was just wonderful. So - so, Garret, congratulations to you. Christopher Cross, I'd be remiss, my friend, Dana Bash, who works here at CNN, she texted me right before this segment and said, your music helped raise her. So, thank you for helping raise one of our - one of our great journalists here at CNN. CROSS: Oh.

BERMAN: So, thank you for everything.

CROSS: Well, I'm a big fan of Dana's and yours, so that means a lot.

BERMAN: I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Christopher Cross, Garret Price, thank you for everything.

CROSS: Thank you, John.

PRICE: Yes.

BERMAN: The documentary is on Max now. Everyone should go stream it.

And thank you all for joining us. This has been CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "NEWSROOM" is up next.

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