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Trump Publicly Backs Pete Hegseth; TikTok Closer to Ban; New Evidence in New York City Manhunt. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 06, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:01:02]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Investigators chasing a key piece of evidence from the fatal shooting of UnitedHealthcare's CEO. Where is the gunman's backpack? And a lucky break for investigators, a flirtatious exchange giving security cameras a chance to capture a look at the face of the man who police believe is a suspect. This could help them use facial recognition technology to find him.

Plus, president-elect Donald Trump with an online show of support for his defense secretary pick, Pete Hegseth, as that nomination teeters on the brink. And raising more questions, one of the people being floated as a potential replacement for Hegseth is expected to be at the Army-Navy game in a week, where Trump will also be.

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN HOST: And divisive decision. The owner of one of the nation's largest newspaper says he will implement an A.I.-powered bias meter for their articles. Ahead, why it's fueling turmoil in an already turbulent NEWSROOM.

We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KEILAR: We're following some new developments in the hunt for the gunman who killed UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

We're told that investigators have recovered possible DNA evidence from a water bottle and a cell phone that was found at the scene and that it's being tested right now. We have also learned that police are heavily focused on the shooter's gray backpack, launching a search for it in New York's Central Park.

And possibly the biggest clue yet in identifying the suspect, this surveillance photo from a New York hostel where he was staying, smiling with his mask down during a flirtatious exchange with a female clerk.

Let's go to CNN senior crime and justice correspondent Shimon Prokupecz in New York.

Shimon, what were you learning about possible DNA evidence?

I can't hear Shimon. Is he on air?

All right, we're going to -- we're having a problem, Shimon, with your audio. We're going to try to reestablish that.

Let's bring in Meg Tirrell.

Because, Meg, I know that you have some new reporting on enhanced security measures put in place for UnitedHealthcare employees. Tell us more about that.

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna, there is an e- mail sent out to UnitedHealth Group employees from the CEO. That's the parent company of UnitedHealthcare, the insurance unit of this major company that Brian Thompson was the CEO of.

We have obtained that e-mail, and the CEO, Andrew Witty, telling employees -- quote -- "Our immediate priorities are very clear." They say: "We're lending all the support possible to Brian's family as they deal with the tragedy of losing someone they love so dearly." And they say: "We're ensuring the safety, security, and well-being of our employees."

They say that they have increased security at their campuses in Minnesota, as well as sites in Washington, D.C., and New York City and surrounding areas. They say they're assessing other sites as well. And in the coming days, folks may see increased security protocols at many locations. They're also not allowing external visitors to their campuses through the end of the week.

Also here in this e-mail to employees, talking about increased media attention, including themes they say are untrue. They also note the social media environment has become increasingly vitriolic. And they said that they're pausing all social media at this time. They're also pausing all external events and speaking engagements, they say, until further notice, out of respect for Brian and his family" and they say out of an abundance of caution for their employees and their teams, guys.

So this communication coming from the UnitedHealth Group CEO to their employees late yesterday around the increased security and all the other measures they're taking -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, it's very serious.

Meg Tirrell, thank you so much for that.

I do now want to go back to Shimon Prokupecz. We have gotten his signal back up there.

Shimon, you are following this investigation. There's a question over whether there may be DNA evidence that investigators can find very useful. What are you learning?

[13:05:12]

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, SENIOR CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, sorry about that, Brianna. We somehow hit the mute button on the microphone. So, in terms of the DNA evidence, what we know is, is that that is

evidence that is coming possibly from a water bottle that was found at the scene in the hours after the shooting on the day of the shooting, and then also a water bottle, and that they may have been able to get some DNA off of that. That was a water bottle that came from a Starbucks where the alleged shooter was last seen before the shooting, where he made some purchases.

So all of that is what authorities are working through now. That is with the New York City Medical Examiner's Office -- they are the folks there, the forensic folks, that do that kind of work. So it's going to take some time perhaps.

But the other thing that is going to be important, we don't even know if this individual is in a DNA bank for them to even compare it to anything. But that's also very important for when they start to build out the criminal prosecution.

You also talked about the backpack, that backpack that he was seen wearing during the shooting. We don't know where that is. Authorities have not been able to locate that. In fact, the last time it was seen was when he was entering on the bike into Central Park. He gets in the park.

And somewhere, they believe, between the park and this street here on 85th Street, where I'm standing, it disappears, because we have video showing the alleged suspect on a bike coming down 85th Street to Columbus Avenue. And then what we see is, he is not wearing that backpack.

Where he goes from here, Brianna, right now, we don't know, because he either makes a left on Columbus Avenue or a right. He does not go west of Columbus Avenue, because our team has reviewed surveillance video around the time that he was seen on this street and it does not show him going up west on 85th Street.

Obviously, for authorities, that is the biggest question. Where is he? Who is he? Those two questions are the biggest priority right now. We're now on day three of this. We have yet to hear a whole lot from the NYPD since the hours after this happened. So, perhaps what's happening is they're working through this.

Obviously, they may have some indications of who this individual is. They may not have any idea who this individual is and they're still continuing to gather as much as they can in information.

The other thing is, the cameras are becoming so important in this case. It's just fascinating how the NYPD has been able to track so much of his movement in the day leading up to the shooting. But questions about where he went afterwards, they have yet to reveal.

So we wait and -- we watch and we wait to see what happens and when we learn more information.

KEILAR: Yes, and it seems like no doubt we will.

Shimon Prokupecz live for us on the streets of Manhattan, thank you -- Kayla.

TAUSCHE: Thank you, Brianna.

Retired FBI special agent Daniel Brunner joins me now. He's the president of the Brunner Sierra Group.

It's good to have you today.

Daniel, let's start first with just the passage of time. It's now been three days, as Shimon was just mentioning. Do you believe that the suspect could have left New York City, or do you believe that he's hiding among the eight million people who live there?

DANIEL BRUNNER, FORMER FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: No, I think he's definitely moved on.

I think he's no longer in New York City. I think he's -- he had his plan prepared. He had -- he knew where at the beginning -- and he had an escape plan, very well put -- a pre-placed bike. And he knew where he was going into the park, moving to the West Side.

I lived in Manhattan for three years, so I'm familiar with all these locations. Moving around, I think he definitely was -- has left New York City. I think the NYPD, in coordination with other law enforcement agencies such as the FBI, really should expand the scope.

And talking to especially the Atlanta Division of the FBI, knowing where he boarded the bus, and expanding the look where he is, we're just waiting for him to make another mistake. He's made some mistakes leading up to -- in his escape. We know this. And now it's just a matter of making another mistake, in which -- that's how a fugitive gets caught.

TAUSCHE: Well, one of those moments was when he pulled down the mask, as we have now reported, based on the hostile clerk who was flirting with him and asked him to remove that mask, which led to one of the pictures that has been perhaps the most revealing of who this suspect is.

But I'm wondering what you think authorities can glean from the hostel itself, given that he used a fake I.D. to check in and he paid in cash. What can they glean from his stay there?

BRUNNER: I think what he was trying to do was trying to be a professional. He thought that he was being professional by paying the cash and the I.D.

There are some things about this operation which appear to be the professional, but there is the mistakes, the mask, the utilization of a backpack which is quite extraordinary and unique, so the agencies and the detectives will be able to focus in on that company and figure out where it was sold, what company it is.

[13:10:16]

So utilizing these different mistakes and staying with -- at a hostel, where he had roommates and other people seeing him come and go, those are mistakes that will eventually lead to his capture.

TAUSCHE: Law enforcement says that he arrived 10 days before committing this murder. What do you make of the fact that during that time he checked out of the hostel for one day and then checked back in the next day?

BRUNNER: And these are all things that clearly are part of the investigation.

Trying to determine where he went is going to be the problem and creating the map of where his locations were across the city. That's the amazing thing about New York City is, there are so many cameras. And what your previous reporter was saying that it's amazing how he disappeared after he arrived at 86th Street moving north or south.

Eventually, there will be cameras that will see him. There is an immense amount of surveillance within New York City. Moving out of when he leaves New York City, that's where it becomes a much bigger puzzle piece in trying to put together his movements.

But that one day where he checked out, I'm curious to see what it is. It was part of his movement. The fact that he was there 10 days in advance before the shooting shows, again, a little bit of advance work, but yet that he -- staying at a hostel, you have a lot of eyes upon you. And then he removed his mask.

That is one of his biggest mistakes.

TAUSCHE: In the back alley where law enforcement found the water bottle that my colleague was just referencing, they also found a burner phone that law enforcement is currently trying to unlock. What do you think the odds are that they will actually be able to unlock it, which has bedeviled the FBI in many cases before?

BRUNNER: Yes, absolutely.

A lot -- I refer back to the San Bernardino, California, in a shooting investigation, where FBI had a very difficult time getting into the phones. And it was difficult getting cooperation from Apple because of the restrictions.

So it depends on the make, model, version of the phone and the programming of the phone. The FBI and the NYPD have amazing technology to be able to break into phones. But if it's a newer model, if it's the latest versions, it makes it more and more difficult to get into it.

I don't know if he dropped it on purpose or if it was a burner phone. It may not reveal much information. But if they utilize that phone and they have it, they will be able to track his movements through the past 10 days because they will be able to see what towers it was hitting off and where his movements were around the city.

So that cell phone not only is going to have information it, but it is going to be able to provide a tremendous amount of data that will show the movement of that phone around New York City and possibly before his even arrival at New York City.

TAUSCHE: So many questions that still need answers.

Our thanks to you today, Daniel Brunner. We appreciate it.

BRUNNER: My pleasure.

TAUSCHE: Brianna.

KEILAR: TikTok is now one step closer to facing the possibility of an outright ban in the U.S.

This morning, a federal appeals court upheld a recent U.S. law that says if TikTok's Chinese parent company does not sell the popular video sharing app by a deadline next month, TikTok can be banned in the U.S.

CNN's Clare Duffy is with us now on this story.

First, Clare, just tell us what the court's explanation, what the reasoning was here.

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Brianna, TikTok had argued that this law violated its free speech rights, the free speech rights of its 170 million American users, but the federal appeals court upheld the law.

They said it does not violate the First Amendment. And, in fact, it's because of the app's immense reach that it is actually really important, that these national security concerns are valid. I want to read to you a quote from one of the judges from this ruling.

He said: "The First Amendment exists to protect free speech in the United States. Here, the government acted solely to protect that freedom from a foreign adversary nation and to limit that adversary's ability to gather data on people in the United States."

So, as you can see, a pretty strong rebuttal of TikTok's argument there and upholding this argument that we have heard from lawmakers for years that TikTok's Chinese parent company, ByteDance, could pose national security concerns.

KEILAR: So what would it mean for the app and the millions of people who use it?

DUFFY: Yes, as you said, I mean, this is one step closer to TikTok actually being banned. The deadline for the sale is January 19, 2025.

So we could see this app be banned in the United States next month if it is not sold off to a non-Chinese owner. But this isn't just a done deal yet. The company does say it plans to appeal this ruling to the Supreme Court.

I want to read to you something that the company sent to us. A company spokesperson said: "The Supreme Court has established a historical record of protecting Americans' right to free speech, and we expect they will do just that on this important constitutional issue."

[13:15:07]

So, the Supreme Court could potentially side with TikTok and agree with their argument that this law should be blocked.

KEILAR: So, the president-elect said during the campaign he opposes blocking TikTok. Is there anything that he can do to change this or is this separate?

DUFFY: Yes, that is a really interesting wrinkle, because it was actually Trump who first tried to ban TikTok during his previous term. He has since apparently made a 180 and now says that he does not want the app to be banned in the U.S.

But it's not clear that he's going to be able to do anything about this. The ban would go into effect on January 19, one day before his inauguration. So experts have told me that it may be a situation where he tries to get Congress to overturn the law, but that that's unlikely because they have just voted on this.

There's so much anti-China sentiment in Congress at this moment. They also said that Trump could try to signal that the DOJ won't enforce this law, but it's not clear that the app stores, who are really the ones who are on the hook for blocking TikTok, would actually buy that argument, Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, a lot of people curious about this.

Clare Duffy, thank you for the report.

President-elect Donald Trump is standing by his man Pete Hegseth, the latest on his embattled defense secretary pick after a rough week on Capitol Hill.

Also ahead, backlash in the newsroom of "The L.A. Times" after the owner says he plans to add an A.I.-powered bias meter.

Plus, the Notre Dame Cathedral hours away from reopening years after that devastating fire.

You're watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:07]

TAUSCHE: Just a few days ago, allies of president-elect Trump were talking about replacing Pete Hegseth. But now Trump is giving a big thumbs-up to his embattled pick for defense secretary.

The president-elect posting online that Hegseth has -- quote -- "strong and deep support." Hegseth has been dogged by allegations of sexual assault, financial mismanagement and alcohol abuse. The military veteran and former FOX News host has denied any wrongdoing and said he does not have a drinking problem. CNN's Kristen Holmes has been keeping on top of all of the twists and

turns of this story.

Kristen, it's been days of Trump sharing his private support for Hegseth, but why did he feel compelled to go public with it this morning?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kayla, he was seeing all the news reports about this idea that allies were floating other names, that this idea that it could be waning, his support for Pete Hegseth.

So he wanted to get out there and make sure that Hegseth knew that he was still behind him 100 percent. Now, I do want to be clear about one thing. Donald Trump, as we know, can change his mind on a dime. But I am told by senior advisers that there are just a few scenarios in which Donald Trump would change his mind.

One is if he heard from senators that there were too many hard no- votes. That's what we saw happen with attorney general nominee Matt Gaetz. Right now, Donald Trump and his team still believe that there is a pathway for Hegseth. The other one of this is if there's more allegations that come out or more accusations or even more information.

One thing to keep in mind here is that we know from Hegseth's lawyer that now his name has been submitted to the FBI for a background check. So that could yield more information here.

So, the one thing I do want to do is read this TRUTH Social post, because it is not just a brief endorsement. It is a full-throated support. Here's what he says.

He says: "Pete Hegseth is doing very well. His support is strong and deep, much more so than the fake news would have you believe. He was a great student, Princeton-, Harvard-educated with a military state of mind. He will be a fantastic high-energy secretary of defense, one who leads with charisma and skill. Pete is a winner and there is nothing that can be done to change that."

So he's clearly trying to put to bed any kind of nervousness or anxiety or thought that he would not be backing Hegseth at this time.

KEILAR: Yes, it's really interesting.

Kristen Holmes, thank you so much.

Let's talk more about this now with Erin Perrine. He's a Republican strategist for Axiom Strategies, and Tara Setmayer, former GOP communications director and resident scholar at UVA Center for Politics. She co-founded the bipartisan super PAC The Seneca Project.

Erin, I just wonder, as you're watching this, where you have Trump and Vance coming out online supporting Hegseth. There were earlier reports that Trump wasn't making calls to senators on behalf of Hegseth, but here he is. He's out there defending him. What do you think Hegseth's chances are now?

ERIN PERRINE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think, right now, it's a better shot than not that Hegseth gets to his committee hearing. He is doing what Donald Trump wanted.

He's standing up and he's taking the fight directly to the media when it comes to these accusations that are being levied against him. Not only is he doing that. His FOX colleagues are doing that. You see that his attorney was out defending him yesterday as well regarding the settlement that he paid. They are going full force at this. That is what Donald Trump wanted.

That's why you're seeing him at least put out the TRUTH Social comments in support of Pete, as all this other news is swirling that there could be other options. This is a good thing for Pete Hegseth to know that Trump right now is still standing in his corner.

TAUSCHE: Tara, I spoke to a senior transition official yesterday who at the close of at least this week's meetings for Hegseth on Capitol Hill suggested that there's still a lot of yeses that they need to get. And, to Erin's point, the committee hearing will be critical to answer a lot of those questions on the hot seat, but that at least as of now there are no no's on the board.

Do you think that's significant? What does that tell you?

TARA SETMAYER, CO-FOUNDER AND CEO, THE SENECA PROJECT: Well, I think it tells me that Republican senators are scared to death of Donald Trump and personal retribution against them if they're honest about their feelings concerning Pete Hegseth being completely, wholly unqualified to be the secretary of defense.

[13:25:08]

I remember a time where Republican senators would never have even considered someone with the spotty record that Pete Hegseth has. Usually, you needed to be more qualified than just looking good on TV to be the secretary of defense.

Pete Hegseth has a terrible record running small organizations. And you want to turn around and hand him the most powerful military in the world with a three million-plus personnel, $800 billion budget, to run that?

Besides the fact that he's credibly accused of sexual assault and his questions about his drinking and all of the things that are plaguing him, that he's out there even deploying his own mother to now come to his defense, after she even admitted that he was an abuser of women, and now she's gone back on that.

The fact that Republican senators are still contemplating whether someone like this is qualified to run our Department of Defense I think speaks volumes about them. They should really stand up and say, absolutely not, because they know deep down inside he is not qualified. They're just upset and scared to death of upsetting Donald Trump. TAUSCHE: Well, regardless of how the trajectory of the nomination

goes, Erin, it's serving a very valuable purpose to the transition at this moment, which is that it's deflecting heat from other high- profile and potentially controversial nominees, many of whom will themselves be on Capitol Hill next week.

I want you to take a listen to what Steve Bannon, of course, a very notorious member of Trump world, said on his show on this very topic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF STRATEGIST: I wish and I recommended Matt Gaetz stick the whole way. Why? Because if Matt Gaetz had still been in there and going through up to Christmas, he'd be drawing so much fire, because they would be freaking out he'd be attorney general. He'd be drawn so much fire, you wouldn't even hear Pete Hegseth's name.

Kash would be gliding into here. The media -- and this is why the concept -- the construct is always flood the zone. There's only so much they can handle. You can overwhelm the system quite easily. People say, Bannon, that's so terrible. Well, hey, that's just -- it's information warfare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: Flooding the zone. So is that just a byproduct of this environment, or do you think that's an actual strategy?

PERRINE: I think there's certainly a strategy to how quickly Donald Trump was able to put forward an entire Cabinet of nominations. It was very quick and efficient.

You saw him do that within a couple of weeks of winning the presidency. For them, it is about flooding the zone. How much can we keep this moving forward? Because, right now, Donald Trump is doing what Donald Trump always does. He is owning the media cycle, whether it's about DOGE and what cuts to the federal government are going to be done, or the Cabinet, or what the other policy proposals they're already -- the senators are already talking about what kind of reconciliation vehicles they're going to be using in the Senate to get tax legislation done.

They are flooding the zone. I don't think it's necessarily just the Cabinet picks, and I don't think it's a distraction technique from them. They are just getting fully ready to go in on January 20 and kick the ball off.

KEILAR: Tara, I wonder what you think about there can be a practice in Washington, D.C., of trying to show up at the party of someone who you know you need to talk to.

And Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is going to be, we have learned, at the Army-Navy game next weekend, which we know Trump is also going to be attending. DeSantis, he's not a Naval Academy grad, Navy veteran, yes, of course. I'm assuming he will be cheering for Navy, but, nonetheless, they will be in the same place at the same time, and I wonder what you think of those optics.

SETMAYER: Look, I just think that this whole idea of kind of a cross between "The Hunger Games" and "Celebrity Apprentice" for picking who our Cabinet officials are going to be is unbecoming.

And Donald Trump has a pattern of doing this, and the fact they're both going to be there at the same time, there's no love lost between them. Let's not forget that Susie Wiles was also an official for Ron DeSantis, and they did not have an amicable split at the time.

So Donald Trump doesn't like people who are -- who press too hard for the job. And so if Ron DeSantis is doing this and freelancing a little bit to think he's going to curry favor, I don't know if Donald Trump likes that or not. He likes to play games. And I think that this entire process is, frankly, unbecoming.

We're talking about our Department of Defense. We're talking about our men and women in the military who put their lives on the line and swear an oaths to our Constitution to uphold our democracy and freedom around the world. And we're doing this, some kind of "Celebrity Apprentice" picking process with these unserious people like Pete Hegseth?

Our military deserves better. The women in our military deserve better, and I just think that we need to stay laser-focused on what's best for our military and for our country and our national security and expect better.

And all those Republican senators who are supposed to advise and consent, they need to remember that their pledge is to uphold our Constitution, not to pledge fealty to Donald Trump. Our troops deserve better.

TAUSCHE: We will see what the optics look like at that game next weekend. And, of course, there are several weeks still to play out during this confirmation process ahead of inauguration.