Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

NYPD: Luigi Mangione "Strong Person of Interest" in CEO Killing; Police: 26-Year-Old Luigi Mangione is Suspect in CEO Killing; Hegseth's Focus Intensifies on Key Women Senators in Week Ahead; Trump Picks for Key National Security Posts Meeting With GOP Senators; CNN Crew on the Ground in Damascus After Rebels Take Over; Assad's Fall in Syria Spikes Fear of Power Vacuum, ISIS Resurgence. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 09, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:01:09]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Just a huge break in the targeted killing of health insurer CEO Brian Thompson. Moments ago, New York Police announced an arrest and they say they found evidence of a possible motive. And these are the first images into CNN showing the full face of 26-year-old Luigi Mangione of Maryland. The New York Police Commissioner called Mangione, quote, "a strong person of interest who has no criminal record."

Mangione was arrested in Altoona, Pennsylvania, was allegedly found with an untraceable homemade ghost gun, a suppressor, multiple fake IDs, including one that police say appeared to be the one used in New York at a hostel by the suspect and a two-page letter slamming the healthcare industry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH KENNY, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: That document is currently in the possession of the Altoona Police Department as part of their investigation. But just from briefly speaking with them, we don't think that there's any specific threats to other people mentioned in that document. But it does seem that he has some ill will toward corporate America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: New York Police are expected in Altoona at any time. And at this hour, Mangione has not yet been charged with murder. Right now, the engineer is facing charges related to the gun that he had on him, that ghost gun that officials believe may have been 3D printed. It was five days ago when a masked gunman was seen on video using a silencer to shoot Thompson to death outside a hotel in Manhattan. He was a 50-year-old and the father of two.

Let's bring in CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, who is at today's presser, along with John Miller, CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst.

Shimon, first to you, take us through what happens to Luigi Mangione now.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, so if the NYPD detectives and the Manhattan District Attorney on their way over to this area, that means that, you know, perhaps maybe there's some chance that they may be able to get a statement from him. I don't know that for sure, obviously, but certainly if he hasn't lawyered up and he's willing to speak to them, I do find it interesting that the Manhattan District Attorney's Office is on their way as well with the NYPD detectives.

So then from there, you know, he's basically going to have to face a judge in Pennsylvania where either he waives extradition or he doesn't and then he fights it and then there would be a hearing. But presumably he would waive extradition and then the NYPD detectives would then transport him back to Manhattan, perhaps the Midtown North Precinct, which is on the west side of Manhattan, because that's where the incident occurred. And then they would process him there and then officially charge him and book him and photograph him. And then he would be taken to central booking. And then he would face a Manhattan judge where he would be arraigned.

So, you know, we could be a day away from this. We could be days away from this. All depends on what he wants to do ultimately and what a judge there in Pennsylvania would decide. That's usually how the process works.

So I'm sure what the other thing that's going to happen is, look, the NYPD now needs to go to Pennsylvania and get possession of everything that was recovered: The fake IDs, the weapon, the gun, this ghost gun. They then need to take it to their lab to connect it to the shell casings that were found at the crime scene. That will give them direct evidence enough with which they can charge him with. Obviously, they already have his fingerprints because no doubt that's been done electronically. So they could ultimately already have a link to his fingerprint from the scene. So that is some of what would be going on.

But at the NYPD, because there is now a criminal prosecution, they need to take hold of this evidence, secure it, and then present it at some point as part of the evidence in criminal prosecution.

[15:05:10]

They need to take hold of this evidence, secure it, and then present it at some point as part of the evidence in this case.

KEILAR: And, John, nothing's going to bring Brian Thompson back. But the heart, I'm sure, for those who know him, they want to know why this happened. And that has, I think, been such an interest for people all across the country. You've learned about this letter, this manifesto, in detail. Tell us about it.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So this is two pages. It starts off, interestingly, apologetically, saying, you know, I apologize if this brought any strife or trauma, but it had to be done. And, you know, it talks about those parasites had it coming, which is interesting because it is written in the plural where we have a single murder, which raises some questions as to were there other intended victims or was he intended to strike again.

And what about the manifesto? Was it meant to be found? Was it something he was going to send in to either law enforcement or the media? He does say in the manifesto, in this two-page letter, if you will, that he acted alone and was self-funded.

So basically, he's railing about the healthcare industry. That he claims in the note that we are the most expensive country when it comes to healthcare here in the United States, and yet we're 42 in life expectancy among other nations. Again, I can't vet his information, but he goes on about profiteering and gouging. And it is interesting in that - this document that is allegedly found with him really kind of mirrors very closely another document he wrote some time ago, basically, and stay with me here, as a book review of the unabomber's manifesto. But this is his own words talking about Ted Kaczynski.

"How long until we recognize that violence against those who lead us to such destruction is justified as self-defense. These companies don't care about you, or your kids, or your grandkids. They have zero qualms about burning down the planet for a buck, so why should we have any qualms about burning them down to survive?"

So this is from January of 2024, the beginning of the year, but it shows early on what the profilers would call leakage. He's publicly kind of venting this anti-capitalist, anti-corporate, anti- profiteering and justifying violence as the solution.

SANCHEZ: John Miller, Shimon Prokupecz, thank you so much for the updates.

Let's get some more perspective now from CNN Law Enforcement Analyst Jonathan Wackrow, a former Secret Service agent.

Jonathan, thanks so much for being with us.

When New York detectives get to Altoona, what do you expect them to do? What is this process like?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, if they have an opportunity to speak to the suspect, what they're going to try to do is key in on is anyone else at risk? And I think that Commissioner Miller had a really good point around this note or manifesto that was left behind, that it is intimating that there could have been more, you know, more victims intended or targeted by this suspect.

So when we look at that, you know, we also want to understand, you know, what is the intent of this document, because it is a critical piece of evidence that is now in law - in the possession of law enforcement. Oftentimes when, you know, suspects leave these types of documents, it's really to try to control the public perception of what their act was, ensuring that there's no misinterpretation of what they were doing. And again, tying it back to other groups or groups of influence, these types of notes can actually be meant to inspire others to mobilize or call to action.

I think right now, that's what law enforcement is worried about. We oftentimes, you know, look at when there's a, you know, some sort of critical event, a mass shooting event or acts of targeted violence. We're worried from the law enforcement perspective of copycat attacks. That is relevant right now, especially with this manifesto, you know, so detailed in terms of what, you know, the reporting is around, you know, targeting against the healthcare insurance industry.

So again, looking at is there anybody else at risk and are they at risk by other - a broader group and that's what law enforcement is really looking at right now is the public safety interest. And then they'll get into the rest of the investigation.

[15:10:04]

KEILAR: Jonathan, what does it tell you that Mangione was found, police say, with so much evidence on him?

WACKROW: Yes, that's a little bit surprising. Again, we, you know, typically what you would have is, you know, in a case like this where you have a suspect that is on the run, what they're going to do is start shedding a lot of that evidence along the way. So should they get caught, should they get identified, they're not going to have items of evidentiary value on them.

You know, there is a belief that with some of these individuals, they want to get caught. They want to be that martyr. And so maintaining this manifesto and other items related to the crime, you know, could lead into that. But again, it's really early in the investigation. We're not sure if law enforcement is going to have the ability to even question the suspect at this point in time to really delve deeper into what was the motive.

We know what the opportunity was. We know what his capabilities were. It's that last part of exactly what was his motive, what was his driving factor, and why did he target this individual on that day.

KEILAR: All right. Jonathan, thank you so much for your insights. We'll continue to follow this.

And right now, three President-elect Donald Trump's top picks for his incoming administration are on Capitol Hill. They are going through critical meetings as they're trying to shore up support. This includes Pete Hegseth, his pick for defense secretary; Tulsi Gabbard, his pick for director of National Intelligence; and Kash Patel, who is his FBI director pick, despite the fact that there is still currently an FBI director.

SANCHEZ: Yes, Trump clearly sending a signal to Christopher Wray, who he hired back in 2017. We are told that Pete Hegseth is now intensifying his focus on persuading three female Republican senators, all of whom have raised questions about allegations against Hegseth related to alcohol abuse and past sexual misconduct.

Let's take you now live to West Palm Beach, Florida, not far from Mar- a-Lago. We've got CNN's Kristen Holmes live for us.

Kristen, Hegseth said that he had a, quote, "very good meeting with Joni Ernst," a senator from Iowa, one of those that had expressed skepticism to Hegseth initially. But we've seen her in her discussions about this move a little bit toward a more favorable position to the former Fox News host.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, today looks very different than what we saw at the end of last week. We were told that they had a very frank conversation last week, but it didn't sound as though they were moving in really the right direction for Hegseth. Now what we're seeing is a little bit more of a cordial kind of conversation, at least that according to Hegseth's telling. And I was just reading through exactly what he said about that meeting.

And one of the things I just want to flag here is that I've known her for 10 years. The more we talk, the more we're reminded as two combat veterans how dedicated we are to defense. Again, this is a very different sounding Hegseth when it comes to Joni Ernst than what we saw last week, particularly after we heard Joni Ernst saying that she would welcome him having an actual hearing. That was a very big moving the ball forward for Hegseth and for the Trump transition, who have been very concerned about how Joni Ernst might vote, whether or not she was going to come around to Pete Hegseth.

And it's not just her, as you noted. It's also Murkowski, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, as well as Susan Collins. These are women who they believe they might have an issue with getting Hegseth across the finish line. They need these votes.

One of the things that we saw last week was Hegseth's own mother going on television on Fox and Friends, essentially saying imploring these women senators to come around to her son, asking them to vote for him and to see that he is a good man. This, of course, came because of the fact that she had written - his mother had written him an email that The New York Times published back in 2018 saying that he mistreated women. She has since said she apologized for that.

We are also starting to see more and more of Hegseth on the airwaves. This is intentional. He is one of the only people who has been appointed to the Cabinet or, excuse me, nominated for the Cabinet position or across the administration who has been doing actual media. That is intentional because they want him out there answering for some of this.

But I will say one thing, we saw Donald Trump. He is standing by Hegseth as of now. But sources close to him tell me that that could change. It could change if the Senate math ends up not being there. They think that they still have a pathway for him now. It could also change if there are more accusations.

And now we know that Hegseth's name has been submitted to the FBI for a background check, so we'll see what that yields. Now, just quickly, we also talk about Tulsi Gabbard up on the Hill as well as Kash Patel. These are two other very controversial picks for President-elect Trump. And we are told of those three, he is likely to be willing to expend political capital on Tulsi Gabbard and Kash Patel. He believes these are people who he really wants to see in his administration, turning the page very different and obviously firebrands that would be out there. We'll see how this all plays out.

[15:15:04]

SANCHEZ: Kristen Holmes, live for us in West Palm Beach. Thanks so much.

Still to come, Syria entering a new era. But with Bashar al-Assad out of power, who is in? The U.S. now warning that ISIS fighters in the region could take advantage of a chaotic situation.

KEILAR: And later, a verdict in the trial of Daniel Penny, the former Marine charged in the chokehold death of a man on a New York City subway, Jordan Neely. All of that and much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:19:55]

SANCHEZ: A historic changing of the guard now underway in Syria after the stunning fall of one of the world's most brutal dictators. Just a short time ago, Syria's prime minister during the Assad regime met with rebel leaders to discuss a transfer of power. The ousted president, Bashar al-Assad, and his family are now in Moscow, granted asylum by Russia after narrowly escaping the rebels' rapid advance. CNN's Clarissa Ward is on the ground in Damascus, where residents are both hopeful and anxious about what comes next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARISSA WARD, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You can see there are a lot of people out on the streets today. It's not scenes of celebration. It's not scenes of looting like we were seeing today. Now people are trying to make sure that they have stocked up on all the supplies that they might need. Take a look at this line here. We're outside a bakery. These people say they've been waiting more than half an hour, some of them. They're waiting for bread.

We've seen lines like this around the city. People are lining up for cash. They're lining up for gas. They are trying to make sure that they have enough food to ride out this transitional period where nobody really knows what's going to happen.

Now you can see behind me at the end of the road there, that is the central bank of Syria. Yesterday there was extensive looting there. A lot of people in the city started to feel a little bit concerned that this was going to be a chaotic period. Then, more rebels arrived in the capital. The looting appears to have stopped. It does seem very calm on the streets. Of course, there are many people who are elated that Bashar al-Assad is finally gone.

But there is also the day-to-day that people need to focus on to ensure that they have enough bread, enough gas, enough cash, enough supplies to get them through this tenuous transitional period.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Damascus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's talk more now about these developments. We have retired Army General Wesley Clark, the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander with us.

Just give us a sense of how you're seeing what has happened here. As you see Damascus falling, the U.S. used B-52 bombers, F-15 fighter jets, A-10 aircraft to strike more than 75 ISIS targets in Syria. What was the objective here?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Big power shift in the region, prevent ISIS from coming back and taking charge. Hopefully get rid of the repressive government in Syria and open a new chapter in the Middle East. Iran is a big loser. Russia's role will be reduced. Turkey is a big winner in this, and the future is unknown because we really don't know who HTS and this man Jolani really is.

And he's executed a smooth takeover, and President Erdogan of Turkey said, let's have this happen very smoothly. He's the first leader who came out in support. That's probably because Turkey's been supporting him and grooming him under the radar all along, and it's worked. But now what happens? Because these are Islamist organizations, what are the standards they're going to put in place? What's the revenge they're going to exact on those who have been opposed to them? And what will happen to the institutions of governance? Will they remain in place? Will there be civil servants? Is education going to be changed?

The Taliban's pretty happy about this. Why are they so happy about it from Afghanistan? They must think something's going their way in this. So there are a lot of uncertainties, and I know the president took credit for supporting Israel, and Israel has done a big job here. But look, there's still chemical weapons there. There's probably biological weapons there. There's a lot of other hardware that Israel's trying to destroy, but do they know where all that is? Do they get it all? And then what's the impact when the dust settles here? What are we dealing with in Syria?

KEILAR: Yes, Israel, quickly, going after those chemical weapons capabilities and systems, but as you say, can they get it all? That's a huge if. There are about a thousand American troops in Syria whose mission it is to keep ISIS at bay. HTS, which is designated as a terror group, although as you mentioned, al-Jolani, he's - you know, he's got this narrative, he's making big promises as HTS moves into governance mode. How does HTS coming in affect the U.S. mission there or does HTS have an interest in kind of compartmentalizing from the American mission in Syria?

CLARK: Well, I think HTS, first of all, is going to work Damascus, and what it has influence over. Let the Americans stay where they are for now.

[15:25:01]

It's very important. I think the Americans do stay where they are for now.

Look, Turkey's hand is behind this in one way or another. We know this. Turkey was consulted before ISIS went into Mosul 10 years ago. Erdogan knew about it. He knew it was happening. And so - and Turkey's always wanted Idlib back, so there may be a territorial swap deal here in play, and Turkey's happy to keep Russia there because it's a trade- off for Russia, plus Turkey then has influence over Russia.

So, you can't take the state actors out of the equation here. But at the bottom, you still have this, what was al-Nusra and a terrorist organization. And Jolani is, boy, he sure sounds good. But the Taliban didn't sound that bad after the fall of Afghanistan either. And step by step, they put all the repressive measures back in. So, we just don't know where this is going, Brianna and that really is the question.

We want to make sure wherever it goes, they don't have access to the chem and bio.

KEILAR: Yes. And then finally, just one question. As you have Trump coming into power with a message of isolationism, stay out of Syria. And we saw what he did pulling out some American troops who had long been supportive of longtime Kurdish allies in the region. What do you expect maybe the dynamic as he's coming back into the White House and how that could impact things in Syria?

CLARK: I'm kind of expecting a different dynamic. I think now he's - he recognizes - he knows what power is. He wants to be a global player. You can't be a global player by withdrawing from everything. He's got a seat at the table there with the forces on the ground. He's got something to talk about with Erdogan and MbS. He's in a critical position to help Netanyahu

So, I think he's going to hold on to that for a while. He recognizes that when he's dealing with Ukraine and Georgia and so forth, the world is watching. It's not just about Europe. It's about China, North Korea, Iran. He's got some big opportunities to make some climactic changes in the Middle East if he plays his cards right. He wants to make America great again. He can't do it by just falling back into the United States because it's not just about the United States. It's about our role in the world. And I think he sees this much more clearly now than he did in 2016, 2017.

KEILAR: Yes, we'll know soon enough anyways. General Wesley Clark, thank you so much for being with us.

CLARK: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)