Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Pepperdine University Students Sheltering In Place As Wildfire Explodes In Size; Suspect In CEO Killing Charged With Murder In New York; Uncertainty Building In Syria As Future Of Region Hangs In Balance. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 10, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:33:25]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, breaking news out of Southern California. This wildfire there exploded overnight in Malibu forcing a shelter-in-place order at Pepperdine University. This fire tripled in size in barely an hour. For a while it was zero percent contained. It has now burned more than 1,800 acres.

We're looking, I think, at live pictures --

NICK GERDING, STUDENT AT PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY (via Webex by Cisco): Right, exactly.

BERMAN: -- right now from Malibu. These are live pictures -- wow. Those are dramatic pictures we're seeing from Malibu.

So, Pepperdine student Nick Gerding has been sharing images from inside the university library where students are sheltering there. Nick, good morning -- or good overnight to you. Tell me what's happening --

GERDING: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- there and what you're seeing.

GERDING: All right. So right now it looks like the bulk of the danger of the fire has passed us. A lot of what surrounds us is just kind of smaller bush fires. We can see a couple -- as you can see in that video there, you can see a couple of bigger spots on the fire that have some people concerned. But overall we are feeling much safer than we were, say, about two hours ago.

BERMAN: So anyone who has been to Pepperdine knows it's just beautiful. It's like one of the most beautiful campuses in the country. But I have to imagine you weren't --

GERDING: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- thinking about the beauty overnight as this huge fire just exploded in size. So what did happen overnight?

GERDING: So it started about -- I was in my dorm with my -- a couple of my buddies and it started about 11:30 our power went out, and then we got a call from a roommate saying that there was a pretty large fire.

[07:35:00]

And so I ran down the hall and grabbed a couple of the friends that I knew lived closest to me and we kind of made a game plan to head to the library. Because my brother, unfortunately, went through a very similar thing about five years ago and so I knew to go to the library. That's where we shelter in place.

And so we have been -- we have been in the library for about six hours awaiting orders. Jim Gash, our president, has come in several times to give us lots of -- lots of updates and what to do and what not to do. And we were told a bunch of times that we are in the safest place that we could be, and that is true.

BERMAN: I keep looking at those pictures, some of which you took yourself.

GERDING: Um-hum.

BERMAN: Any buildings lost or affected at this point?

GERDING: Uh, we are not 100 percent sure. We are worried about a couple of the houses up on Baxter Drive. That's where a lot of faculty lives. But nobody is completely sure of the damages as it's so dark and we're a little isolated from some of the information. But it's nobody's fault, really. It's just the chaos of it all. But we're not entirely sure if any buildings have caught fire with us.

BERMAN: Look, I get it. I mean, looking at some of these pictures that have happened -- come in just over the last few hours --

GERDING: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- I mean, these are real fires really close to buildings there on campus. This looks like it must have been serious.

What's the environment been like for you all in that library over the last several hours? I imagine a lot more people --

GERDING: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- jammed in there than normal.

GERDING: Yeah, it was -- I mean, ironically, it's finals week so there was already a lot of people here. But it's pretty jam-packed. There's about maybe 300-400 kids in here.

And overall, the vibe was panic, but it was more calm than I expected. A lot of -- a lot of people were taking time to pray as we are a Christian campus -- so taking time to pray. We were all just kind of waiting. It was just kind of a sense of waiting for the next move because there honestly wasn't much that we could do in that moment, and I feel like we all collectively kind of understood that.

So I'm grateful for the non-panic that happened, but it was still very, very scary.

BERMAN: Sort of a non-panicked, high concern, strange --

GERDING: Yeah.

BERMAN: -- night during finals week.

GERDING: Yeah.

BERMAN: Nick, I'm glad you are well. I hope that those fires move past.

GERDING: Thank you.

BERMAN: Continue to send us those videos because it's a remarkable vantage point --

GERDING: Yes.

BERMAN: -- that you have there. Best of luck to you and your friends there. Thank you.

GERDING: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also breaking overnight, 26-year-old Ivy League graduate Luigi Mangione is now charged with second-degree murder in New York for the death of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. We're standing by to learn when he will be extradited back to New York.

This morning he's behind bars in Pennsylvania where he also -- he's also facing several lesser charges, including forgery and gun-related crimes.

Police have arrested -- police there arrested Mangione yesterday at a McDonald's after an employee and a patron recognized him and called police, bringing that intense manhunt to an end. Police say they found on him a black 3-D printed pistol, a 3-D printed black silencer. He also presented them with a fake New Jersey ID -- the same fake ID the suspect, they say, used to check into the New York City hostel before the shooting.

Authorities say they also found a handwritten document. They describe it as speaking to his "motivation and mindset."

Joining us right now, defense attorney Misty Marris, and former FBI special agent Ken Gray. Guys, thanks so much for being here.

Misty, there is -- and I'm not even listing out all of the things that have come out overnight. Put it all together.

What element of everything learned overnight since police started detailing with the criminal complaint and in these press conferences after his arrest -- what is most useful, do you think, to the case that's going to be built against this suspect?

MISTY MARRIS, DEFENSE AND TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yeah, Kate, there is a mountain of evidence here and a lot of it forensic.

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

MARRIS: So we know that there's video evidence. We know that there is DNA on the trail caught on multiple different cameras. But the fact that he was actually taken into custody and that gun was on his person -- that is going to be so key because once investigators are able to link that gun to the killing that's going to be a lynch pin in the prosecutor's case. So just putting that whole trail together and then having the actual weapon that committed the crime --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

MARRIS: -- that's going to be something that'll really make the case very tight.

BOLDUAN: And Misty, there's more. There's his online profile that people are piecing together, and investigators are clearly digging into.

One of the things that people are looking at is the reviews that he put out on Goodreads from an account -- an account investigators believe is linked to him, giving a four-star rating to the manifesto of the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski. I raise that in conjunction with the way they're describing this manifesto or document found on him.

[07:40:00]

What do you do with this? How do you use this? What do people -- what should people hesitate and maybe putting too many things together so far? I mean, how do you look at it?

MARRIS: Right. So there's a few ways to look at it.

First of all, it can speak to motive, and motive -- obviously, everybody wants to know what the motivation was for this act. Now, you don't need motive to prove a crime in a court of law. You don't even need motive to make that arrest. But it certainly can be helpful when you're talking about bringing a case ultimately to trial.

Also, it speaks to mindset --

BOLDUAN: Um-hum.

MARRIS: -- and it can be critical for that element of establishing intent if you're talking about prosecuting a crime.

So all of that -- that whole online profile -- we learn so much from the electronic footprint of any individual. It's all going to be weaved into the narrative of the case.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Such a good point.

And Ken, on that gun, NYPD, with -- says that they -- this is a 3-D printed gun with a silencer, both consistent with the weapon used in the murder. Three-D printed weapons -- what kind of problems do these pose for law enforcement in terms of locating criminals and putting together these crimes?

KEN GRAY, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT, CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAVEN (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah, this gun is a ghost gun and as a ghost gun it's not traceable. Additionally, you can get a ghost gun, or you can build a ghost gun without going through an of the process of background checks or any of that aspect.

So this gun is something that he created putting it together from parts and from 3-D printing -- the base of it. Put it together and then use it in the commission of this crime. And this gun does not exist as far as traceability goes.

He thought he was so much smarter than everyone else, but why didn't he get rid of this gun? Why did he still have the gun, the magazine, the ammo there, which all link him directly to the crime?

He also had his ID -- the ID he used at the hostel there. Why didn't he get rid of that ID?

These are things that if he's so smart links him directly to the crime and shows that he isn't as smart as he thought he was.

BOLDUAN: That's definitely one of the questions all of the amateur sleuths -- I include myself in that one -- was wondering why keep that ID and present it.

There's also what his friends are saying about his recent encounters with the health care system, if you will. Back issues that his friends have spoken to.

Ken, let me play this for you -- listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

R.J. MARTIN, FORMER ROOMATE OF LUIGI MANGIONE: I remember he said he had a back issue, and he was hoping to get stronger in Hawaii. So he's always focused on trying. When he first came, he went on a surf lesson with other members and unfortunately, just a basic surf lesson -- he was in bed for about a week. I know he was really focused on being strong and healthy, but it also weighed on him that he knew that there was an impending surgery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Stating the obvious here as someone who has had back surgery recently, back pain and back surgery does not lead people to murder, obviously. How does, though, this element of it -- his interactions with the

health care system -- and obviously, we're talking about a health care CEO -- how does that help or direct investigators now, Ken?

GRAY: Well, just as Misty was saying, this helps tie him in to provide a possible motive. Plus, that manifesto lays out the -- really, it's a written confession in many ways.

And so, the fact that he had this back problem. He also apparently had grandparents that had gone through a process with the insurance company might have also been additional motivation him. But you really don't need the motivation here to make this case.

That gun, that ID, the constant tracking of him through surveillance once the police were able to put this together -- NYPD was able to track him from before the crime, during the commission of the crime, and then after the crime. And those are the things that'll be useful in the trial. The fact that he had back problems -- that is secondary to proving the case.

BOLDUAN: Ken, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on. Misty, thank you as always for helping us walk through this. Much more to come here -- John.

BERMAN: All right. New overnight, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau warned that "life will become a lot more expensive for Americans" if President-elect Trump follows through on his promise to hike tariffs. Trudeau says the 25 percent tariffs threatened by Trump would be "devastating for the Canadian economy. It would also, however, mean real hardship for Americans," he said.

Trump appeared to respond on Truth Social calling Canada "a state" as in a U.S. state, and Trudeau a "governor," and that he looks forward to continuing trade talks.

Let's get right to CNN's Matt Egan on this. Good morning, Matt.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Good morning, John.

Listen, we've got to talk about the president-elect's nickname for Trudeau, calling him "Governor Trudeau." You know, he's obviously the prime minister of Canada. This goes back to a joke that Trump told Trudeau when Trudeau was at Mar-a-Lago recently, saying that if Canada can't handle his proposed tariffs, then perhaps Canada should join the United States as the 51st state.

[07:45:05]

This is a telling joke because it reflects how much Trump loves to use tariffs as a weapon -- a weapon that can pressure friends and foes alike to address problems -- everything from illegal immigration to drug trafficking.

Consider that just since winning the election Trump has threatened tariffs on not just Canada but Mexico, China, and BRICS nations. That's a group that includes India, and Russia, and Brazil, South Africa, Iran, Egypt, India, the UAE. I could go on. Again, that's just in the last five weeks.

And Trump -- he has praised tariffs again and again. He's called himself the "Tariff Man." He has said that he loves tariffs. That they're perhaps the greatest thing ever invented.

And look, there is a case to be made for using tariffs as a powerful bargaining chip - as a way to build pressure and convince other countries to come to the bargaining table and to try reach a deal. Because, of course, a lot of other countries -- they import stuff to the -- they export stuff to the United States, and they would be crushed if they could no longer sell goods to America because Trump has imposed a 100 percent tariff. That does create real leverage.

I talked to economist Stephen Moore who has advised Trump in the past. And Moore said look, if we could no longer sell stuff to Mexico, we would survive. But Mexico -- they would be crushed. They could not survive there. And Moore told me -- he said, "It's a dangerous game, one that could work."

One point, and we really need to stress here John, is there are costs here, right? Tariffs -- they can increase costs to Americans -- to consumers. A lot of companies have already warned this. There's a cost from all of the uncertainty here. And John, there is a risk that this gets out of hand and turns into a full-blown trade war.

BERMAN: All right, Matt Egan for us. Thank you very much, Matt.

With us now, former Biden White House director of message planning, Meghan Hays. And former presidential campaign manager for Marco Rubio, Terry Sullivan.

So there's tariffs and then there's just taunting, right? I want to read this full Truth Social post from Donald Trump overnight.

He goes, "It was a pleasure to have dinner the other night with Governor Justin Trudeau of the Great State of Canada. I look forward to seeing the governor again soon so that we may continue our in depth talks on tariffs and trade, " et cetera, et cetera.

I'm not sure I had, like, full on manifest destiny on my bingo card for international relations here, Meghan. What do you think of that -- you know, basically taunting the Canadian prime minister of the sovereign nation of Canada?

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION CONSULTANT: Look, I think that he's -- these are threats. These are things that he wants -- he says he wants to do.

But the fact of the matter is these tariffs are not good for the American people, and I think that folks know that. This will add over $4,000 to middle class families. And I just don't think that this is a smart tactic. It's not a good negotiating tactic. And I don't see what you're doing to be threatening with our partners from the north and the south. BERMAN: Terry, what do you -- what do you make of the taunting here?

What are the limits of this? At what point -- and I know Trudeau has got his own issues politically inside Canada -- but I do wonder with all these world leaders, some of whom have experience with Trump, at what point they might just say you know what, we've seen this before?

TERRY SULLIVAN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN MANAGER FOR MARCO RUBIO, PARTNER, FIREHOUSE STRATEGIES: You mean the NATO allies that are now paying more of their fair share of NATO because of these type of tactics or the fact that when Trump first tweeted this that -- and then had a phone call with Mexico they said they were going to work harder to crack down on the drugs coming through?

I mean, look, these tactics do work. You can say a lot of things about Donald Trump but saying he's not a good negotiator just doesn't really match up. I mean, at the end of the day, putting pressure -- putting hard pressure on these other countries to do their fair share and to play by the same rules that we do is important and he's good at getting them to do it, and the proof is in his first four years. He used them very effectively.

These tariffs aren't great -- the unilateral tariffs aren't great for the U.S. economy in many ways, but we're at the point now where it's negotiation and he's using this is as a tool, as a lever.

And look, you know, I do agree with Meghan that they are not going to necessarily -- he's not going to enact all of these policies. But I do think it's a great tool to negotiate.

BERMAN: I mean, if anyone has seen the film "Canadian Bacon" -- I mean, things can happen when there's this kind of language tossed back and forth over the border.

I want to talk quickly about Pete Hegseth to both of you. This nomination seems to be in a different place today than it was just five days ago.

Terry, how important will the hearings themselves be when he does have to face questions in public under oath?

SULLIVAN: I think very important. But look, I think that Pete Hegseth will really thrive in that situation -- in the environment. I mean, he's a TV personality. He's going to be comfortable. He's going to -- he's going to be able to communicate his message in a very effective way, which is one of the traits that Donald Trump wants in his cabinet-level positions.

[07:50:10]

And so, look, there's a lot of things that are -- still need to come out -- flushed out. There's an FBI background check for all of these folks. But at the end of the day I think he is going to do very well and he's going to get confirmed.

BERMAN: Yeah. And Meghan, if it is -- if there is anything that blocks the nomination it will be Republicans -- it has to be by definition Republican votes that sink him, if that still has any chance of happening.

So how do Democrats play it then in a public hearing?

HAYS: Look, they continue to bring out these allegations that have come forward. They look at the FBI background check. And this is their time to put everything on the record and get everything out in the public view. That is what these -- you know, the advice and consent is, and that's what these public hearings -- or the confirmation hearings are for. So I just think that they need to bring out all of their concerns publicly.

They do not have the ability to stop this nomination -- absolutely not -- but they do have the ability to under -- to let the American people understand who Donald Trump is picking for these massive positions that are wholly unqualified -- not only just their qualifications in running such a large organization but their moral character is not what the American people want to run an organization like this.

BERMAN: All right, Meghan Hays, Terry Sullivan. Thanks so much to both of you -- appreciate it.

All right. Jay-Z makes his first public appearance since being accused in a new lawsuit of raping a teenage girl alongside Sean Combs.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:56:20]

BOLDUAN: Syria's brutal dictator Bashar al-Assad is now out -- fled to Russia -- and the rebel groups who have been fighting him for more than a decade are preparing now to take control of the government leaving one very important question today, which is who is in charge and what is it going to look like in that country?

Fears remain about who will maintain power in the region in the coming days and weeks. Pentagon officials confirm they're working to ensure that chemical weapons left over from the Assad regime do not fall into the wrong hands.

There is a lot happening there and a lot at stake.

Joining us right now is CNN military analyst, Col. Cedric Leighton. Colonel, thanks for coming in.

The fall of Assad and the power vacuum that remains afterward, it means what for the U.S. military and U.S. interest in the region? How important is the answer to that question, which is who is in charge in Syria to the U.S.?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.) (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah, that's a really huge question, Kate, and good morning to you.

One of the key things that you have to look at is when there is a power vacuum that's the perfect breeding ground for terrorist groups such as ISIS to develop and to, in essence, flourish. So we have to be very careful.

Of course, protection is going to be the number one issue for U.S. troops that are in Syria. There are about 900 of them there at the moment and those troops are going to have to be extra vigilant because of that. And that's exactly why the U.S. conducted the air strikes that they did the other day that hit 75 ISIS-related targets in eastern Syria.

BOLDUAN: We know that Bashar al-Assad used chemical weapons on his people. We have -- we've seen the evidence of those atrocities over the years.

On Monday, Israel said that it struck Syria's chemical weapons capabilities. The -- a White House official also on Monday had said that the United States has good fidelity on where chemical weapons may be located within Syria and is working with partners to destroy them.

How important is this right now?

LEIGHTON: It's critical, and it really goes along with the first question that you asked because whoever controls Syria has the potential to control the chemical weapons as well.

But this is a very dynamic situation to say the least. And what it really means is that any group that is part of the HTS coalition and even groups outside of the HTS coalition could potentially control these chemical weapons.

So when the Israelis struck the chemical facilities that they knew about they were trying to destroy as much of the chemicals that they could. And we're talking about things like mustard gas, sarin, VX -- very dangerous nerve agents that have a -- have a horrible effect on people when they're used. And they are banned under international law.

So these are the kinds of things that become critically important and our efforts to secure those weapons is going to be key not only to securing things for the Syrian people but also securing the region as well.

BOLDUAN: The take from the Biden administration -- one second -- can -- stand by for me if you --

LEIGHTON: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, thank you so much, Colonel. Colonel, stand by for me because we have been able to connect once again with our Clarissa Ward who is on the ground -- one of few Western journalists on the ground in Syria.

Clarissa, what's happening around you?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, it's interesting because the first couple of days we were here the streets were pretty subdued. There was a lot of anxiety. And today we're really seeing people are out and they are celebrating. Take a look behind me. All these young people -- they are celebrating. They are posing for photographs. Holding up their babies to show with rebel fighters.

And I actually wanted to bring in -- I've just been talking here with this young Syrian woman Judit (PH). Tell me how this went for you.

JUDIT, SYRIAN WOMAN: As you can -- is this working?

WARD: Yes, it's working.

JUDIT: As you can see this is 50 years of silence.