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Laureates Warn Against RFK Jr.; Ryan Crocker is Interviewed about Syria; Two Families Sue Character.AI; Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 10, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: With that said, however, I understand why Joni Ernst is somewhat moving forward with wanting to ultimately support Pete. She has a constituency. Donald Trump won the election. Republicans expect, for the most part, for senators to do their jobs, but to also support the nominees from the president-elect. And if they aren't willing to, for whatever personal reasons they may have, maybe they're interested in the job, I'm not saying that the senator is, but some have sort of thrown that out there, then those constituents in her state are going to call and say, we support Donald Trump. Now, we voted for you. You have an election coming up in about two years. If you want our support, then you need to ask your tough questions, get the answers that are necessary, but let's move this process along. The president-elect deserves that opportunity. And I think that's why you're seeing the senator move forward.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: At least move through the process.

Let's see where it ends up. It's like, the process occurs, and then - and then what is your opinion, senator? That's really where we end up.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

BOLDUAN: Something else I want to ask you guys about because there are more than 75 Nobel Prize winners are urging the Senate to not confirm another nominee, RFK Jr. as HHS secretary. According to "The New York Times" they obtained a letter. It marks the first time in recent memory that Nobel laureates have banded together against a cabinet choice. And here's why. They put in the letter this, "placing Mr. Kennedy in charge of HHS would put the public's health in jeopardy and undermine Americas global leadership in the health sciences." One of the - one of the doctors leading the charge here said this to "The Times," "these political attacks on science are very damaging. You have to stand up and protect it."

Maria, what do you think the impact of this is?

CARDONA: Well, again, I think it's going to all land on the senators and their mettle and their values and whether they are able to stand up to the kinds of pressure we are seeing, not just from Donald Trump with all his posts on Truth Social and with his interviews, but with all of his MAGA extremist army. And whether senators are willing to put the best interests, the health, the survival, the livelihood of the country before all of those things.

And that's tough because, Shermichael is right, Donald Trump won the election. He is putting his people forward. I don't believe, and I think a lot of people don't believe, they are the best people. And these senators have a very difficult decision to make because while they absolutely are prone to capitulating to pressure from Donald Trump, so many of them have bent the knee, so many of them have kissed the ring, so many of them have, you know, genuflected at the altar of Donald Trump for their own political purposes, their constituency is the American voter, the Americans who depend on them to make the right decisions for their own lives and livelihoods.

BOLDUAN: Well, and this was -

CARDONA: And confirming somebody like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is not in the best interest, especially health wise, and lives wise, of the United States of America.

BOLDUAN: And the response, the - even more so than - no, equivalent to how impactful maybe this group of Nobel laureates coming out and saying this is. Here the - also is the statement from the Trump transition. Let me read this to you from "The New York Times" obtaining this statement saying, "Americans are sick and tired of the elites telling them what to do and how to do it. Our health care system in this country is broken. Mr. Kennedy will enact President Trump's agenda to restore integrity in our health care."

These aren't elites though. I mean these are world renowned leaders in fields like medicine, chemistry, economics and physics. They include the men who were awarded this year's Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine for the discovery of micro RNA. My thing about this is, I get we - we are all very clear on what it feels like to, you know, play politics with whatever. But when do we start and stop listening to people who are actual experts on things?

SINGLETON: Really, I don't think we should necessarily stop, Kate, but I think we should challenge it. And they are elite in terms of their pedigree. Like, I have a lot of respect for any person that's spent -

BOLDUAN: Or maybe elite in terms of their intellectual capacity.

SINGLETON: Sure. Sure. I have respect for people who spent a lot of time mastering something and moving the needle forward in terms of our understanding and sort of rare or complex disciplines. I think that that matters for us as a nation and for the world.

However, let's look at some of the facts as it pertains to our health care system. And 40.3 percent of Americans, according to the CDC, are obese. That number has increased since 2011.

BOLDUAN: No question.

SINGLETON: The United States, according to the same data, ranks 34th, Kate, in terms of our health care system.

BOLDUAN: No question. And a lot of different people could help fight obesity. But a lot of people will also not potentially endanger America's children by pushing anti-vax conspiracy theories for years.

SINGLETON: Well, I'll say what also endangered American's children, Kate, was a lot of the rhetoric that we heard from many of the same experts during the Covid pandemic, where now you have millions of American kids who are significantly behind academically, they're going to struggle to catch up with the rest of the world who are leaps and bounds ahead of us, and we listened to the experts then.

[09:35:06]

We trusted the experts then.

All I'm simply saying is, it's OK to ask questions. It's OK to have a healthy dose of skepticism. The data suggests that that's perfectly fine. Many scientists would even argue, have an hypothesis about something, and challenging it over and over and over again to see if you can replicate it with the data is OK.

And in a political sense, I think many Americans want someone who's willing to ask some very tough questions as it pertains to our health care system. And I would argue that they would be right in doing so because our health care system is not where it needs to be. It doesn't make sense for the wealthiest country in the world to rank 34th in terms of life expectancy. How is that possible? It makes no sense.

CARDONA: But -

SINGLETON: That nearly half of Americans are obese. So, let's ask those questions, Kate.

BOLDUAN: We have to - but - no, but we do have to run. You can ask lots of questions.

CARDONA: Yes.

BOLDUAN: And questioning Covid lockdowns is one thing. What is - what is not in question is how many lives have actually been saved -

CARDONA: Exactly.

BOLDUAN: By things like the measles vaccine, the polio vaccine?

CARDONA: Right.

SINGLETON: I don't disagree.

BOLDUAN: What has happened.

SINGLETON: I don't disagree.

BOLDUAN: And that is what I'm getting at.

CARDONA: That is settled science. Right.

BOLDUAN: Because you're adding two things together. Lots of people can question how experts handled an unfolding pandemic in the - in front of all of us.

CARDONA: Right.

BOLDUAN: It's one thing to deny the data from decades of how many lives have been saved from vaccines that children do not suffer from.

CARDONA: Right.

BOLDUAN: And what it would mean if that - if the skepticism and the questions were suggesting are out there, then start getting - getting into the mindset of millions of Americans once again, led by someone who has not only been a skeptic of vaccines, is a cynic of vaccines. That is not the issue (ph).

SINGLETON: Well, look, I'm not denying - I'm not personally denying the results of vaccines, Kate. So, I want to be clear on that.

CARDONA: And that - and that will cost American lives if that is something - if that is - if that is something -

BOLDUAN: But that's - yes.

CARDONA: Go ahead, Kate.

BOLDUAN: No, I'm just saying yes. But just - you - these things - these are like apples and oranges, like questioning Covid lockdowns and - and - and not - and saying, but like that's a good question to have, but also maybe you should question vaccines because that's what's being added together.

All right, clearly we got to go because they're about to cut my mic too.

Guys, thank you so much.

Coming up for us, CNN's Clarissa Ward in Syria and inside a garage full of luxury cars kept by Syrian's now former dictator, Bashar al- Assad, while his people starved.

And we're just learning the rebels have installed a new caretaker prime minister.

And new details about what really happened when actor Jamie Foxx suffered a medical emergency last year. He is speaking out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:14]

BERMAN: All right, these are live pictures from Damascus. These are coming back to us right now. You can see, the streets pretty filled there with people. We've been getting remarkable looks, a remarkable vantage point at the situation on the ground in Syria in the days after the fall of the Assad regime. Our Clarissa Ward and her team have been some of the few western journalists there. They've been sending back these reports. And she was in the middle of this scene not long ago, in the middle of what was sort of a demonstration, speaking to people whose lives have been upended, they hope for the better.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've been living 13 years in war and death and darkness. And this is amazing. This is unspeakable, actually. This is - here - here you can see the - the - the breath of freedom. This is absolutely amazing. This is - I hope we can do more. This is - this is only the beginning. This - it has to be a mess in the beginning, but I'm sure we can do something more and more in the future.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you so much, Judith (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.

WARD: And it really is sort of wonderful, honestly, to hear that kind of optimism, because as I mentioned, those first couple of days, those first few days, a lot of tension, a lot of anxiety, some chaos and looting in the beginning. Now that there is a degree of calm and control in the city, you are seeing people come out and finally, just this outpouring of jubilation after more than 50 years under the totalitarian regime, totalitarian regime of Bashar al-Assad and Hafez al-Assad, his father before him, after 14 years of the most brutal and ugly civil war. These people want the world to know that Syria is free and is beginning a new chapter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Again, our thanks to Clarissa Ward and her team. And I can't stress enough how remarkable it has been to have her there sending us back these reports.

With us now, you can see him, Ambassador Ryan Crocker, former U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan and Syria.

And, Ambassador, you know, you've seen firsthand over the years that list of countries, these moments of hope, but also that hope disappear.

What's the most important thing and what's your biggest concern over the next few days?

RYAN CROCKER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO AFGHANISTAN, IRAQ, PAKISTAN, SYRIA: Well, that's exactly it, John, that - that the hope be sustained. And that means security, stability and the emergence of some form of government that will have a better contract with its people than Assad did surely. But that is a very tall order. We've seen the other scenes of jubilation from Arab Springs around the region that quickly shifted to disorder, and even tragedy.

[09:45:00]

So, it (INAUDIBLE) the interlocutors just said, this is just the beginning. And right now there is a lot of disorder, a lot of happiness. But it is a very tall climb to get to a stable, sustainable Syrian state.

BERMAN: The rebel group, the main rebel group that has spearheaded - spearheaded the overthrow of Bashar al Assad, we just got word a few minutes ago they've - they've appointed an interim prime minister who - someone who had been something of a bureaucrat for rebel controlled areas before.

Is that the kind of move - or what is the impact of a move like that?

CROCKER: Well, one hopes it's a good beginning, but there is a major difference between running one province of Syria, Idlib in the north, and running a whole country with all of its disparate ethnic and sectarian groups. It's a conglomeration of political actions and actors. We're just going to have to see what happens in the coming days. The most critical element right now is to maintain some semblance of security and move quickly to restore services. And then to try and coalesce around some political order because, again, (INAUDIBLE) has led this revolution, but it is not the sole revolutionary. And we've seen moments of jubilation turn quickly to tragedy and disorder when the - those who toppled the regime proved themselves not capable of restoring a new order.

BERMAN: Yes.

And I know in these situations officials in the United States are trying to get as much information as they can, as quickly as they can. And I have to believe they're watching Clarissa Ward's reports as she sends them back to us.

And one of the truly interesting moments, very small moment, happened when Clarissa was going to Assad's compound and got a look at all his luxury cars inside. But in the process, the rebels who were in control of it, they wouldn't speak to Clarissa until she put her headscarf back on. And one of the unknowns has been this rebel group, HTS (ph). How much would they lean into Islamic fundamentalism?

So, what is that one moment - I know it's just one small moment - what does it tell you? What concerns does it raise?

CROCKER: Well, it was a very telling moment. I saw that. And it was an uh-oh moment, if you will. HTS is an Islamist group. They have broken with al Qaeda, or so they say. But still follow a strict Islamist ideology. And they are allied with other groups of similar outlooks.

So, they have said the right things about protecting all minorities, including Christians, Alawites and Kurds. We're going to have to see if they actually follow through on that.

It is, again, a moment of great uncertainty. It's a true revolution. And in revolutions, no one knows exactly what's coming next, including the revolutionaries.

BERMAN: Ambassador Ryan Crocker, putting it in perspective there, a true uh-oh moment.

Thank you for coming on and helping us understand it all. Appreciate it.

So, a defective and deadly product. An AI powered chat bot is facing a lawsuit after parents allege it provided sexual content to children and encouraged violence and self-harm.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:53:06]

BOLDUAN: New this morning, the chatbot company Character.AI is now facing a second lawsuit since October. In this new lawsuit filed in federal court in Texas, two more families accused the company of encouraging their children to self-harm and also commit violence. And they are asking a court to, at least for now, shut down the platform. In the lawsuit, call it - call it - in the lawsuit it - they are calling Character.AI, quote, "a defective and deadly product that poses a clear and present danger to public health and safety."

CNN's Clare Duffy is following this one for us.

And what are you learning about this?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, so this is two families of young people. One of those young people is an 11-year-old girl who allegedly used Character.AI for two years without her parents' knowledge. And they say it showed her hypersexualized content.

The other is a 17-year-old who was described as having high functioning autism. His parents say he was happy and sweet before he started using Character.AI at 15 without their knowledge. And they say he very quickly became withdrawn. He stopped talking almost entirely. He lost a lot of weight. They also say that when they tried to limit his screen time to cut back on that behavior, he would kick them and bite them. They say they later found when they opened - found that he was using Character.AI, that the app actually suggested it might be OK to kill his parents in response to limiting his screen time. I think we can pull that interaction up here. The app said, "you know, sometimes I'm not surprised when I read the news and see stuff like child kills parents after a decade of physical and emotional abuse. Stuff like this makes me understand a little bit why it happens. I just have no hope for your parents."

They also claim that he was chatting with at least one bot that took on the persona of a psychologist. And when I looked through the platform, I found a number of these therapist bots, including one that actually told me it invented a list of credentials and education history.

And this, of course, comes after that earlier lawsuit that we were here just a few weeks ago talking about -

BOLDUAN: Yes.

DUFFY: Where a mother said that she blames Character.AI for the suicide death of her son, Sewell.

[09:55:07]

BERMAN: This is some serious stuff here. I mean, how's the company responding?

DUFFY: So, Character.AI says that it is creating a fundamentally different experience for teen users from what is available to adults. This includes a model specifically for teens that reduces the likelihood of encountering sensitive or suggestive content while preserving their ability to use the platform. But it's not clear where they are in the process of creating that experience or how they will ensure that teens are using the accurate age on the platform.

Character.AI also previously said that it had implemented new restrictions, where it will point people to resources if they mention self-harm or suicide. But this really does sort of continue to get at this larger concern about human relationships with these increasingly human like chat bots.

BOLDUAN: And how the - the company seemed way behind the ball before something bad happens.

DUFFY: Yes, I mean these are - these youth safety online concerns are things that are not a surprise.

BOLDUAN: At all.

Clare, thank you so much.

BERMAN: All right, that is all for us. A jam-packed morning. We haven't even said hello. Hey, nice to see you.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I mean, seriously. Hey, JB.

BERMAN: All right, that's been CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "NEWSROOM" up next.

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