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Trump Cabinet Picks on Capitol Hill; Extradition Hearing Set For CEO Murder Suspect. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 10, 2024 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:38]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We begin CNN NEWS CENTRAL with breaking news.

In minutes, an extradition hearing is expected for Luigi Mangione, the 26-year-old Ivy League graduate and high school valedictorian accused of killing health insurance CEO Brian Thompson. State officials say that Mangione has been in isolation today at the state correctional institution in Huntington, Pennsylvania.

He's been charged with second-degree murder in New York, along with gun and forging offenses in Pennsylvania.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yesterday, customers and workers at a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, spotted, even joked about how Mangione looked like the subject of the nationwide manhunt. He was seen wearing a mask, a hood and a backpack, and then an employee called 911.

A McDonald's regular described what happened before Mangione was taken in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY, WITNESS: It started out almost a little bit like a joke. We thought -- my one friend thought he looked like the shooter. He probably heard us. That surprised me he stayed there as long as he did.

From what I was told, the worker that took his order, she said his eyes and his eyebrows, she just thought it was him. It's really -- I -- it's unbelievable. I still can hardly believe it's for real, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: CNN's Brynn Gingras is here on this.

You have been taking a look, Brynn, at his New York charging documents that were just released. Before you get into that, what should we be expecting from this extradition hearing? BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, so, Brianna, from those documents that we have learned, New York requested this formal extradition of Luigi Mangione earlier this morning.

Of course, now he has a hearing set at 1:30 there in Pennsylvania. Of course, at this hearing, he is going to have the decision. Does he want to waive extradition or does he want to go through with the extradition? And we're learning that if he does -- if he goes through with it, obviously, then he is going to face these charges.

It's possible he could be in New York as soon as really today, tonight, maybe even tomorrow. So it's certainly going to speed up the process. But we did learn a lot of how investigators here in New York made the connection with Luigi Mangione found in that McDonald's in Pennsylvania with a case here in New York.

So it has a little bit more details, which we have been discussing for the last couple of days. Some key evidence, though, is that surveillance footage that police have been talking about ever since this case opened. They have been scouring all the cameras all across New York City trying to pinpoint the movements of Mangione allegedly after this murder took place.

And they talk about how he went -- he checked himself into that Upper West Side hostel. They have video of him checking in on November 24 on that evening. They have video of him, according to this document, leaving that hostel about an hour or so before this murder took place. And they also -- a key piece is that New Jersey fake I.D.

That was to this used by Mangione, according to this document, according to police, to check into that hostel. And it was also shown to police there in Pennsylvania when they went and got the call about this person being a possible suspect in the case. He showed it to authorities, according to police.

And this really does make the connection between here and New York. So, like you guys said, we are waiting for the extradition to see what happens next in these steps in this case.

SANCHEZ: And, Brynn, we're learning all sorts of details about his background and the months and days leading up to the shooting. What are Mangione's friends saying?

GINGRAS: Yes, one friend telling CNN, this isn't a guy that you would think would self-destruct in this way, is the way that they put it. This is the person who we have been talking about has Ivy League education, went to some of the best schools in the country, comes from a very prominent Maryland family.

If you look at his social media footprint, prior to just really the summer, he was very active on social media. He had pictures with friends, pictures of his travels, and then the summer hit and something turned. You could see people tagging him saying, are you OK? What's going on? One person even checking to see if he was going to honor an RSVP to their wedding. So, a lot of people grew concerned. I do want you to hear from one of

his roommates who he lived in Hawaii with, what they had to say after his name was revealed as the main suspect in this case.

[13:05:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

R.J. MARTIN, FORMER ROOMMATE OF SUSPECT: Beyond shocked. It's unimaginable. I was roommates with him, friends, hiked, went to yoga. He did his best to be athletic.

And unfathomable, knowing the kind person that I saw and knew. Never once talked about guns, never once talked about violence. He was absolutely a not violent person, as far as I could tell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: And, of course, investigators here in New York are going to try to question him more once they are able to get in front of him, based off of this extradition hearing.

And a lot of those questions, of course, are going to be on motive. Obviously, there's a little bit more details that are sort of coming, bubbling up as we learn more about Mangione. But, certainly, this process continues for getting him to New York and to face this second- degree murder charge, among others.

SANCHEZ: And, again, that extradition hearing is set for 1:30 p.m. in Pennsylvania.

Brynn Gingras, thank you so much for bringing us the latest there.

Let's discuss the details here with trial attorney Mercedes Colwin, along with retired NYPD Detective Michael Alcazar. He's also an adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

Thank you both for being with us.

Mercedes, I'm really curious about why this charge is for second- degree murder and not first, if this shooting shows a level of premeditation.

MERCEDES COLWIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it's open to interpretation by the prosecutor. They will -- that's a great question. They will look at first degree possibly, but right now the second degree.

And, of course, it could change depending on the -- their investigation. But you're exactly right, Boris. There is so much premeditation. There's already whispers that there's going to be -- at least the defense will step forward and saying that he may have had a psychotic break, which, frankly, will be very difficult to show if this proceeds to some form of criminal proceeding, beyond just the preliminary steps, because there is so much planning that took place. So if the defense comes forward and said there was some sort of

psychotic break, it will be very difficult for them to demonstrate that. But at the -- right now, at the inception, second-degree murder seems to stick, but it could change depending on the investigation and certainly depending on whether or not the investigators will have access to Mangione once he gets to New York.

KEILAR: And, Michael, he was caught with all of this evidence on him, according to police, which is going to be tough to defend in court. Why would he not have shed that evidence, in your opinion?

Because there's certainly different possibilities here, from he expected to get caught, and that was part of this, or that he actually had this grand idea that he would not be caught, so it didn't matter if he had all this stuff on him.

MICHAEL ALCAZAR, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Yes, who knows what his mind- set was.

I also heard theories that he might have targeted other members of the organization. Could be as sick as he wanted to keep his trophies, right? But it was a gift for law enforcement that he had all these -- this evidence, the weapon, the suppressor, the manifesto on him. And, again, I think it's all great for prosecution.

KEILAR: Well, not for the defense, Mercedes. What would the defense be after being found with all of this incriminating evidence?

COLWIN: Oh, great question. That's exactly right, Brianna, because all of that will come forward. That evidence is so critical.

You have the manifesto. And in the manifesto, there were specific references to UnitedHealthcare. We know that Brian Thompson was the CEO of the UnitedHealthcare. So that's one.

Number two, just the ranting and ravines of the anger towards the insurance industry. And, apparently, this is -- at least it's been explained that Mangione had a traumatic spinal injury that resulted in some sort of surgery and then some recovery, and that anger may have been brewed from there. And that was a difference in his personality, very much so.

And it lines up with the timeline, where there was this vast difference in the way that Mangione was conducting himself with his friends and family over the summer. But any of that evidence, the fact that you have an I.D., that is that is very problematic for the defense.

The fact you have the manifesto, very problematic. The fact that you have a ghost gun that apparently was created by a 3-D machine with -- and then, not just the gun, but the silencer, that is obviously very problematic. Of course, that will have to be lined up with ballistics experts and they will have to show some connection to all of that evidence to the shooting of Brian Thompson.

But it is very difficult and something that the defense is going to have to overcome.

SANCHEZ: And, Michael, it wasn't just the evidence that he had on him. There was an extensive digital footprint online for this suspect, including a Reddit account that CNN has found coincides with a lot of his biographical details. It is believed to be his Reddit account.

And he talks about brain fog. He says -- quote -- "It's absolutely brutal to have such a life-halting issue. The people around you probably won't understand your symptoms. They certainly don't for me."

[13:10:08]

I wonder what you make of that and some of the other things that have come out about what he was doing online.

ALCAZAR: Yes, absolutely.

Our detectives are definitely going through all his online activity to establish motive. What caused him to target this organization, in particular this victim? So they're going to comb through all his digital data, all his rantings online. How did he identify the victim? Was he specifically targeting the victim or was he targeting anybody at that organization?

Did he just get lucky when he saw him on the street or was he -- was it just unlucky for the victim to walk by? He might have -- I know people are saying that he might have targeted other people in the organization. So there's a lot of information to go through.

KEILAR: Mercedes Colwin, Michael Alcazar, thank you so much for your insights on this.

Mangione's arrest is generating backlash online, not against the accused murder, but against the McDonald's where he was spotted. It's called review bombing. Negative, even one-star reviews have flooded the restaurant's Google and Yelp pages, forcing the two companies to remove the comments.

Some of them had terms like rats and snitches.

SANCHEZ: And even before Mangione was identified, legions of -- related to the rage against health insurers his alleged actions seem to reflect.

Joining us now is CNN media analyst Sara Fischer, who's a senior media correspondent at Axios.

Tell us more, Sara, about what these review bombers are saying and what platforms they're using to post on.

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Anywhere you can leave a review about a business, they're going there, so it's Google Reviews. It's Yelp.

They are mentioning, to your point before, that this person who called the police on the shooter is a rat. They're making comments such as, there's rats in their kitchen. You can't trust that you're not going to get food poisoning there.

Now, the tech companies are put in a really precarious position here, because, in one end, you want to never meddle with reviews, right? You want them to be organic. But what Google and others are saying is that these aren't real reviews. You're not a customer coming in and checking out this restaurant. You're just leaving a review to put a disparaging light on the business.

And so they're actually going and removing a lot of these reviews. Yelp has turned off comments. But what's going to be challenging here, Boris, is this is really a game of Whac-A-Mole. You can try to delete as many comments as you want. If you're eBay or Amazon, you can try to pull all the deny, defend, depose merch as you want.

But bad actors are still going to go out and continue to add it and continue to praise the shooter online.

KEILAR: On the upside, I will say, for this McDonald's franchise, I don't know if people are going to Yelp to check out their local McDonald's, but it's just so interesting that this is happening because it really seems like an extension of the reaction that we have seen since the UnitedHealthcare CEO was killed.

Insurance companies are unpopular, to the point of people widely, if anonymously, actually endorsing the idea of violence against them. How are other companies looking at this? How are industries seeing the sentiment?

FISCHER: Well, every single corporate CEO that I have talked to in the past week is beefing up their security because they understand that, if one person can do a targeted attack like this, they might inspire other lone wolves to go ahead and do the same thing.

Within the health care industry in particular, Brianna, when I was covering the campaign, one thing I noticed was that RFK's influencer set was really quick to jump on the Donald Trump bandwagon around health issues, frustration with the system. And I think you're seeing that sentiment carry over to this attack.

Normally, in the wake of an attack like this, you're going to see TikTok's sleuths and true crime junkies try to help the police, try to find the murderer. In this case, overwhelmingly, the population wanted to sit that out. And I think it's because they had a large level of empathy with the health care insurance crisis.

Of course, violence is never the answer, but it's been shocking to see the backlash online.

SANCHEZ: Well, this incident has definitely touched on an undercurrent of social rancor toward these health insurance companies.

FISCHER: Yes.

SANCHEZ: You mentioned something in your previous response about defend, delay, deny or depose products popping up online. So, essentially, this incident has become a cottage industry for folks selling T-shirts and other things?

FISCHER: Yes.

And if you zoom out even further, this is the way that politics has really moved, if you think about Donald Trump getting quick ahead of breaking news things and putting out the merch.

It's the same type of thing happening here. What's notable, though, Boris, is that those three words combined aren't violative of many policies. So if you're eBay and you're Amazon, sometimes, it could be hard to say we have to take that T-shirt down. It violates our policies. You could run into some First Amendment, free speech issues.

So what the fine line is that they have to draw is figuring out what is considered antagonistic versus what's considered free speech. And what's really hard is policing this stuff. I mean, Amazon, eBay, they have millions of merchants that are using their platforms every single day.

[13:15:10]

SANCHEZ: Yes.

Sara Fischer, great to get your perspective. Thanks for being with us.

FISCHER: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Still plenty more news to come on NEWS CENTRAL.

Trump's pick for defense attorney is back on Capitol Hill today, this after attempting to clarify previous comments he made in which he said that women's service members should not serve in combat roles. What he now has to say about those remarks.

KEILAR: Plus, CNN on the ground in Syria, our Clarissa Ward following the situation, as a very new reality is setting in there and Syrians begin to get a sense of what comes next. We will have her exclusive reporting up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:20:07]

SANCHEZ: Back on the Hill and possibly back in the game.

Right now, president-elect Donald Trump's pick for defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, is having more meetings with Republican senators. After spending several days on the Hill and with Trump still firmly behind him, Hegseth appears to be making progress, winning over skeptical Republicans.

Today, he's set to meet with Alaska's Lisa Murkowski, one of the Republican senators who's raised questions about allegations against Hegseth related to drinking and sexual abuse. Hegseth had a follow-up meeting with Iowa Senator Joni Ernst on Monday. Ernst, who's seen as a critical swing vote for Hegseth, said that she would support his confirmation process, but stopped short of saying she would actually back his nomination.

Here is Hegseth responding to that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE: I would never speak for Senator Ernst. But I appreciate the time. It was an amazing conversation. She's a wonderful combat vet. And I have welcomed all of her insight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: Meantime, some top Republican senators are now signaling support for two other controversial Trump picks, Kash Patel for FBI director and Tulsi Gabbard for director of national intelligence.

Let's take you now live to Capitol Hill with CNN's Manu Raju.

Manu, let's start with Pete Hegseth and this meeting with Senator Murkowski today. What are you hearing about that?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's significant, because Murkowski is a perennial swing vote in the Senate GOP. She is someone who has been very careful on her words in talking about Hegseth, as I have asked her about all these allegations of misconduct, sexual assault allegations, excessive drinking allegations, all of which that Hegseth denies, but undoubtedly will come up in this meeting this afternoon.

Now, this all comes as Hegseth has undoubtedly stabilized things for his own prospects in getting the job among Republicans. So, Joni Ernst, you heard that meeting there. She came out of that meeting for the second time they met saying that she would be supportive of the process. She sounded much more positive. There's a big pressure campaign from Trump allies on people like Joni Ernst who have been a little wobbly about backing him.

And then, last week, Senator Lindsey Graham, someone who's very close to Donald Trump as well, said that Hegseth had difficulties. He saw difficulties in getting Hegseth confirmed. But I just caught up with Graham, who met with Hegseth yesterday and he indicated to me things have changed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): The accusations are anonymous, the police report I have read. Right now, he's in pretty good shape. I think he's very smart. I actually was with him in Afghanistan when he was doing his duty. I was over there very briefly as a reservist.

So the accusations about mismanaging money and about nonconsensual behavior, if they come forward, I will listen to those accusations. But they have to be credible and they have to be presented in a fashion that Pete can rebut.

So he's much better off this week than he was last week. (END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So a much different tune than he had last week.

And there are other critical meetings that Hegseth has as well, not just with Murkowski, but also with Senator Susan Collins of Maine, another key swing vote. He's meeting with her tomorrow. But there are still at the moment nobody on the Republican side who have come out and said they will absolutely not vote for Hegseth, which is giving the Trump team hope that eventually he will get the job.

And that's the same for other controversial picks, like Tulsi Gabbard to be the top intelligence -- the director of national intelligence. She's been back on Capitol Hill today. Still no outspoken opposition to her, despite some of her views, including on the issue of Russia.

And as well as Kash Patel, someone who would be the new FBI director, as Trump is signaling he's ready to push out the existing FBI director, Christopher Wray. He met -- Patel just met with Lindsey Graham and Graham also sounded positive about Patel's prospects as well -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Manu Raju, thank you so much.

We have CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger and CNN chief national affairs correspondent Jeff Zeleny with us now.

I mean, it's interesting, Gloria, because Ernst is saying now she will support Hegseth through the process. That's not the same as saying confirmation. But at the same time, there's a range of possibilities for why she seems to be shifting more positively in his direction.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, there's a lot of outside pressure on her. She's up in '26, and they're running ads in her state about Pete Hegseth and how fabulous he is.

And I think she's gotten the message from the team Trump that you ought to get in line or this is going to be really difficult for you. And conservatives are hounding her. So I think she has -- she has gotten the message.

On the other hand, she's also talked to Hegseth and he's promised her an audit of the Pentagon, financial audit, which she really wants, to appoint a senior official in charge of sexual assault to make sure things are handled well. So I think she's trying to extract some things from him.

[13:25:05]

But I think the hearings are going to be really important, because who knows what's going to come out in these hearings. Who knows if this woman will testify. There's a lot of unanswered questions here.

SANCHEZ: Jeff, to Gloria's point, Donald Trump hasn't come out and tried to put pressure on these skeptical Republicans, but he doesn't have to. JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: He hasn't yet.

And that has been one of the many interesting things. Look, there are a lot of similarities about Donald Trump as he enters his second term here. But there are some differences and I think this is one of them. He is allowing this to play out, but you're right. He doesn't have to because a lot of his allies are doing it for him online and whatnot.

But every example or many examples of when the former president tries to pressure senators, it often doesn't work. Look for Rick Scott, for example. A lot of his allies wanted him to be the majority leader. That didn't happen.

So senators, it is still one of the last not independent, but not completely beholden bodies. So I think he is playing it pretty wise. But as for Senator Ernst, there's no doubt that she has felt pressure on the right here.

But I think you hit it exactly on the head, Brianna, support him through the process. That means get him to a hearing, but not promising anything more beyond that. And she will have a choice to make, of course. She has a brand and firm beliefs here. So she needs to learn more from him. But it's actually just getting him to the finish -- or the starting line, rather, rather than the finish line.

KEILAR: Yes.

BORGER: Right. Right.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

Gloria, there are some comments from Hegseth that he's tried to clean up.

BORGER: Oh, yes.

SANCHEZ: And I want to play a clip for us to show the comparison. This is Pete Hegseth talking about women in combat roles in the military. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEGSETH: I'm straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn't made us more effective, hasn't made us more lethal, has made fighting more complicated.

And I also want an opportunity here to clarify comments that have been misconstrued that I somehow don't support women in the military. Some of our greatest warriors, our best warriors out there are women who serve, raise their right hand to defend this country and love our nation, want to defend that flag.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: There's definitely a distinction in what he's saying.

BORGER: Yes.

SANCHEZ: But he's kind of trying to clean it up in a way that makes it seem like he didn't just say that. Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Yes, I mean, first of all, no one ever said he didn't support women in the military. He said straight up, as he put it, I don't support women in combat.

Joni Ernst was a woman in combat. And I think it's very difficult for him to clean that up. He couldn't have been clearer in his initial statement. So he's trying to dance around it, talking about women in the military, which is a totally different thing. So let's see how he does with that.

And the people, by the way, that he's got to convince are women in the Senate, Murkowski, Collins, Ernst. These are women. So you can't weasel your way out of certain things that you have said.

ZELENY: That wasn't 10 years ago. That comment was on November 7.

BORGER: Right.

ZELENY: We're talking a month ago, so hardly a long time to have a change of heart.

SANCHEZ: Right.

ZELENY: Obviously, having a change of heart because, to your point, Senator Ernst and other women senators and others disagree with him on this. So he will have to change his tune a bit. And he clearly did last night on "Hannity."

KEILAR: I do like to remind people of the reality of what dying as a service member was in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. A lot of it was carrying fuel and other supplies to the front lines in a convoy.

So just this idea of what combat is, who is in danger, he can't get away -- he's sort of trying to say women in the military and then -- but you hold your hand to defend. But there are so many people when they are in a situation serving that they are going to be in danger.

ZELENY: Without question.

I mean, after America's longest wars, I mean, that is very clear. And he likely knows people he's served it as well. Certainly, this is very much in this generation. So that is such a good point you make there. It's not just simply who are on the front lines and fighter pilots and things, but, I mean, also Democratic senators.

BORGER: Right.

ZELENY: I mean, Tammy Duckworth also will be asking him questions on that committee. So it is certainly -- I think his committee testimony and performance there and to show his before and after, not just on FOX News, but under testimony or under oath, that will be fascinating.

BORGER: Well, what he was implying in the first statement, I think, was weakness, that women were weak and that they don't have the amount of strength to perform in combat.

And I think that's a hard thing to get away from. You can't just say, oh, women should be in the military. He's going to be asked how to explain that statement, that women should not be in combat flat out. Why? Why is that? What's the answer to that question?

SANCHEZ: We will see how he responds.

BORGER: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Confirmation hearings will be explosive, no doubt about that.

Gloria, Jeff, thank you both so much.

So, minutes from now, an extradition hearing will be held for the man charged in the murder of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare. We have a live update for you in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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