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CEO Murder Suspect Fighting Extradition, Denied Bail; Trump's DOJ Secretly Obtained Records Of His FBI Pick Kash Patel, Lawmakers, Staffers And Media In Leak Investigations; Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) Discusses About Being Targeted on Leak Investigations in First Trump Administration. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 10, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Luigi Mangione, the man charged with murder in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, was denied bail at a hearing in Pennsylvania and is now fighting extradition to New York. We're going to tell you what he shouted at cameras on his way inside of court just moments ago.

Plus, a new watchdog report finds President-elect Trump's Department of Justice secretly obtained records of lawmakers, staffers and the media in an attempt to catch leakers. Among those targeted, Trump's pick to lead the FBI, Kash Patel.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, is artificial intelligence responsible for a team's suicide? AI company Character.AI is being sued several families accusing its chatbot of providing sexual content to their kids and encouraging self-harm and violence. We're following these major developing stories and many more, all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

We begin this hour with breaking developments. Murder suspect Luigi Mangione is fighting extradition after being charged with second degree murder for the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in New York last Wednesday. Before he began his extradition hearing, which just wrapped up, Mangione had an outburst. You're looking at an image of it now. This was the scene as he was being escorted into the building.

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LUIGI MANGIONE: ... and it's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people. It's lived experience.

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KEILAR: Now what to make of those comments. Officers arrested the Ivy League grad and high school valedictorian yesterday at a restaurant in Altoona, Pennsylvania. He was found with the weapon that was allegedly used in the murder, along with a manifesto railing against the healthcare industry.

Let's talk about this now with CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. And we also have Steve Moore, CNN Law Enforcement Contributor and a retired FBI supervisory special agent.

Joey, first, those comments, what do you make of them? And I just wonder if it tells you anything about Mangione that you think may be relevant in court.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, it's all relevant, Brianna, good to be with you, Boris and Steven. The reality is, is that everything you say can and will be used against you. And when you're ...

SANCHEZ: Joey, we have to pause you for a moment because the DA is speaking, the DA overseeing this case is speaking. Let's actually listen in right now.

PETER J. WEEKS, DA OF BLAIR COUNTY, PA: Well, it's simply gets the inevitable started sooner. I mean, it is, you know, we're going to do what's necessary to get the governor's warrant. And we're working, you know, with the New York City Police Department and Manhattan DA's office. And we're going to get the defendant up there so they can prosecute them on their charges.

So waving, you know, accelerates that process. Contesting it, you know, just provides more hoops for law enforcement and prosecutors to jump through. But we're happy to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you disappointed in this process? Were you expecting this? Was this a surprise?

WEEKS: People contest extradition all the time, even on - we have people who contested on retail thefts and we get this type of paperwork. Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he likely to be in New York in 30 to 45 days?

WEEKS: That depends on a lot of factors, but that's a reasonable estimate to anticipate. If the judge schedules a hearing within 30 days. You know, our understanding is that New York's going to be able to retrieve him very quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he had not waived, were you prepared to hold the Blair County charges, like an abeyance to what the legal term is?

WEEKS: The Blair County charges are still active. We intend on prosecuting him, but we also intend on cooperating with the New York City Police Department and the Manhattan DA's office. We've already indicated to them that we believe their charges take precedent and we'll do what's necessary to accommodate their prosecution first. But that doesn't mean we're getting rid of our charges.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you expect any other charges?

[15:05:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the hearing, when bail was being discussed, you brought up the same points that were brought up last night. There's a Faraday (ph) bag, the cash that was found. And it seemed like it amounts to a significant flight risk. The defense attorney today said that the court is obligated to provide bail regardless of what the flight risk is if the case is not one that is punishable by life without parole.

Your defense or your point after that was that, besides being a flight risk, the court is allowed to deny bail in case the person is still a danger to society. Is there anything that's found that could be, you know, pointing towards the fact that he might be targeting other people or why argue that he's still a danger to society?

WEEKS: So I'm not going to comment on the ongoing investigation into this defendant, but I will say anyone charged with criminal homicide is a danger to society. I would make that argument in any case where someone was charged with a significant assault and there is no more significant assault than homicide. The - what the defense attorney said is simply the judge was permitted to give bail if the judge chose to.

The judge was also permitted and authorized under the Constitution to deny bail as he chose to do based on the factors that the judge had available.

Yes, ma'am. I'm not sure - yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you expect other charges in this case?

WEEKS: Again, I'm not going to comment on the ongoing investigation. I know that the Altoona Police Department has and will continue to diligently investigate it. I was privileged to be able to work, first, Assistant Smith and I, with the Manhattan prosecutors and the New York City Police Department, the Pennsylvania State Police, and all the other law enforcement entities.

So they're all very aggressively and diligently investigating this. But I'm not going to speculate on what might come in the future.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In terms of the timeline, what are you expecting the defense to do in the next 14 days? What are the - what is the argument they're supposed to do next?

WEEKS: Well, they have 14 days to file a petition for habeas corpus and that would simply be a document challenging the Commonwealth's ability to prove that the defendant is the person that the state of New York has issued the arrest warrant for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does that have to do with the ability to focus - be able to go out on bail, to be free on bail in the meantime? So for now - I mean, how much long - is the bail denied all the way into the trial?

WEEKS: Well, this defendant now has two dockets in Blair County. One docket will go away once he is extradited, and that is his fugitive from justice charge. And the judge denied bail on that until, obviously, the judge makes a ruling on any defense motions, at which time we anticipate the state of New York will be able to collect the defendant.

The other local charges, the encounter between the Altoona Police Department and the defendant, the defendant has been denied bail on that case as well, which the Pennsylvania Constitution provides for when the judge finds it appropriate under the circumstances.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So your main goal right now is to have him extradited to New York? That's what you're working towards?

WEEKS: Our primary focus is to cooperate with the New York City Police Department and Manhattan District Attorney's Office so this defendant can be prosecuted for his New York homicide charge, yes.

Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you comment on the way he's right now detained in jail? Is he staying by himself? What security he has around?

WEEKS: I defer to the Department of Corrections or whatever institution someone's housed in. I cannot comment on his specific circumstances.

Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sorry if this was already asked, but I kind of missed the top, but at what stage are you at in securing a governor's warrant? And how long do you expect extradition to take once it's secured?

WEEKS: So we've begun that process. I will say the judge afforded the defense 14 days to file their petition. So any hearing the judge schedules on that petition would have to be after that deadline has run. So I - we'll be ready any time after that period. He gave us 30 days. I anticipate we should be able to get that sooner than 30 days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you surprised that he got the defense attorney out last night? He had no attorney. He was figuring out whether he wanted somebody to be hired or to use public defender. What was that process in terms of how it affects you?

WEEKS: It doesn't affect us at all. It's very - I mean, people secure attorneys all the time even when they're arrested at 2 o'clock in the morning. So this is a very normal procedure in criminal prosecution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A very quick question. Who are the people in jury box?

WEEKS: I believe there were courthouse employees from other departments who were interested in the proceeding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it normal for charges presented against somebody who's been charged with murder here in Pennsylvania to have six police officers surrounding them or is he treated like a higher person by the Sheriff's Office?

[15:10:10]

WEEKS: I won't - I can't speak to how the sheriff and his deputies assess risks for inmates. I will say that, you know, we've certainly prosecuted a number of homicide cases here in Blair County where there's been that level of security or more. So that was not surprising to see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you say ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So will his Blair County case stay on hold pending, because he's got that preliminary hearing scheduled on December 23rd.

WEEKS: That's our intention. And with the way that's scheduled in light of the judge's 14-day period for the defense to file motions, I anticipate we would likely be able to achieve that preliminary hearing at least before we have the extradition hearing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you'll move forward with it then?

WEEKS: We don't intend on getting rid of the charges. We acknowledge that the New York City Police Department and Manhattan District Attorney's Office charges should take precedence. They're more serious. We intend to cooperate with them to the best of our ability to facilitate their prosecution of this defendant first. But we don't intend to withdraw our charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything expected between now and that 23rd or the two weeks or is there anything else that is left to be done?

WEEKS: Well, the various agencies will continue their investigations and we'll certainly be working on securing the governor's warrant. So it'll be a lot of phone calls and paperwork.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me, (INAUDIBLE), so I don't know if this was asked before, but it was hard not to notice his demeanor a little bit. He was smiling, chuckling. Last night, he was a little outspoken and animated during the proceedings. Today, he also spoke out of turn. Is that surprising to see as a DA for a case this significant?

WEEKS: No, I'm not going to comment on a defendant's demeanor. That's something personal to them and their - it's their prerogative to act how they act in court.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to clarify a bit about that, so then - essentially, since these things are happening in parallel, the Blair - the original Blair County case keeps going at its normal pace up until he's extradited, and then it'll just get paused at that point, right? And then restarted whenever the New York case is over?

WEEKS: Our intention is to just place a detainer on him once we secure extradition and send him to New York. We do not intend to delay this defendant's extradition to New York, and we certainly - we've indicated this to New York, their prosecution should take precedence, and then ours will follow.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you explain in layman's terms exactly what the process looks like to obtain a governor's warrant?

WEEKS: So, certainly, our office will communicate with the Manhattan District Attorney's Office, and each of us communicate with our respective state-level governments, and it's the state-level governments that work with each other, execute the governor's warrant, which sometimes can take, you know, approximately 30 days, plus or minus a little bit.

I will say that those wheels have already started moving in this case, so I'm hopeful we can get that accomplished quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what is your timeline, best-case scenario?

WEEKS: Well, I'm not going to - I'm just - I'm hopeful we can accomplish it ...

KEILAR: All right, we are listening to Blair County DA Peter Weeks here talking about Luigi Mangione, who, of course, is the suspect in the killing of Brian Thompson. And he is detained now in Pennsylvania. He's fighting extradition. He made it sound basically like this is just going to delay things to get him back to New York.

I think we were expecting that he would fight extradition, but it was interesting that he said they still - Weeks did - that they still in Blair County intend to prosecute the charges they have, but they understand and have communicated to New York officials that their charges are going to take precedent in this.

SANCHEZ: It was interesting to see his response to Mangione deciding to fight extradition, essentially saying that this means more paperwork, more hoops to jump through, a lot of phone calls and paperwork, but we are happy to do that, to see that justice is brought in this case.

Let's get some perspective now from our panel of experts. We have John Miller with us, Steve Moore, Joey Jackson.

First to you, John, I wonder what you heard there that stands out to you from Peter Weeks, the DA in Blair County.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Not much in that, it was the explanation of a fairly routine process, which is waiving extradition and going or not waiving extradition and trying to slow down the process. So basically what he's saying is New York has to get a governor's warrant. They have to prove that they have the right person, that they have valid charges, that, you know, they have a case that he should be brought back to New York on.

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A crime that would be a crime if it had been committed in Pennsylvania, and this show move along. On the other hand, there may be something tactical here. It's possible that they've just come to the decision on the defense side that rather than be in the clangy and disordered halls of Rikers Island prison, which has a very controversial reputation in New York City. It might be better to spend the next 30 days working with what lawyers he has out of the Blair County jail. But that's just supposition on my part.

KEILAR: Yes, one that would make sense, certainly.

Joey, I am curious what you think of Luigi Mangione's demeanor, something that the DA in Blair County did not want to comment on. And yet, there is a lot to comment on here. The way he was described as presenting himself in court, speaking out of turn, seemed like, you know, kind of showing different kinds of emotions, some smiling. We saw his outburst on camera as he was going into the courthouse. What do you make of all that, and how relevant it is legally?

JACKSON: Yes, Brianna, so everyone obviously is going to react differently. You can comment on the demeanor or you could look at the substance of what he says when he's speaking about the intelligence of the American people. Potentially, that gives you a motivation of this is the exact type of person who would be motivated, right, to exact some kind of political coercion or message as it relates to UnitedHealthcare and exactly what he did.

So everything you do as a defendant is going to be used against you. Brianna and Boris, of relevance to me with respect to the substance in the press conference were two things, takeaways. And that is, I was looking to see whether Pennsylvania would want to prosecute, right, believing they would be deferential to New York. But it's clear now that they think that the New York case should have priority to the extent that it's a murder charge. That's number one.

And then, of course, when you look at the extradition issue in terms of whether he would fight it or waive it, I think John Miller makes a very good point with respect to him potentially not wanting to be at Rikers Island.

Now, here's the issue. There's not many defenses on extradition. Just to reset, extradition is a process where one state is requesting you because of the crimes you've committed there. And you have every right as a criminal defendant to say, hey, I'm not waiving anything. I'm going to fight extradition. That's fine. But there's not many defenses.

Number one, is the extradition warrant full, complete and accurate with respect to the accusations? Number two, does it allege probable cause for the offenses for which you were charged? Number three, does it refer to you?

And if those elements are met, then guess what? You are then sent back to the ultimate place, that is New York, where they're seeking your extradition. And so whether it's a delay tactic, whether it's anything else, I could say one thing with clarity and certainty, and that is he will be in New York. When is the open question?

SANCHEZ: Steve, to you, to the second point that Joey brought up about there having to be probable cause in any kind of attempt to extradite him and to sort of get around this fight that his defense team is putting forward, there is a ton of evidence apparently linking him to the shooting, from a ghost gun being used, the manifesto that he had, the ID that was used at the hostel. I wonder if this extradition process getting delayed in any way impacts the investigation and the ability of prosecutors to gather that evidence and present it in a clear way.

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: No, I don't think this is going to harm that at all. In fact, it gives you a little bit more time to get your homework done. He's got - he's going to be arriving later rather than earlier, and it gives you time to get your prosecutive ducks in a row.

Remember, they were still looking for him when all of a sudden, bam, he appears, and now that kind of starts the clock on prosecuting him. So this would actually help them. And the main thing I'm seeing here, and I don't want to step into Joey's lane here, but this just seems like what I've seen so many times. The person who did the crime doesn't change their personality and become a normal person when they sit down next to their defense counsel. This guy is going to be as unreasonable with his defense counsel and the courts as he was in his worldview.

KEILAR: Really interesting.

SANCHEZ: Yes, fascinating perspective. Steve Moore, Joey Jackson, John Miller, appreciate you all, thanks for joining us.

Still to come, a bombshell report from the Justice Department's watchdog on how the DOJ under Donald Trump secretly obtained phone records from members of Congress, their staffers, including Kash Patel and journalists too. Trump's pick to head the FBI, Kash Patel's on Capitol Hill, and one of those targeted lawmakers is going to join us live in just moments.

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KEILAR: At any moment, President-elect Donald Trump's pick for Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is expected to hold a critical meeting with Republican senator, Lisa Murkowski. She is one of the GOP senators who has raised questions about allegations against Hegseth related to drinking and sexual misconduct.

In the meantime, we're learning that Trump's pick for FBI Director, Kash Patel, along with two members of Congress and 43 staff members were targeted in a secret and sweeping investigation conducted by the Justice Department in an attempt to find leakers during President- elect Trump's first administration.

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According to the watchdog report, prosecutors also sought records, including emails from journalists here at CNN, as well as The Washington Post and The New York Times. We have Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell with us now. He was one of the lawmakers whose records were obtained.

Sir, thanks for being with us. Sources telling CNN, I should mention, it's not mentioned in the report here, but sources tell CNN you were one of two members of Congress targeted. Do you know why?

REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): I was a critic of the Trump administration, one of the leaders of the investigations into him from the Intelligence and Judiciary Committee. And it doesn't surprise me at all that they would so recklessly go after me and my colleague, Mr. Schiff.

KEILAR: Yes, and they also targeted Kash Patel, not in the same circles as you. I wonder what you make of them targeting Kash Patel and you. Why target him? Clearly he's a Trump firebrand, not a critic of the administration.

SWALWELL: So there were about 20 Republican staffers and 20 Democratic staffers that Kash Patel was among who were investigated, but only two members of Congress, and that was Mr. Schiff ...

KEILAR: All right, I think we lost our connection there to Congressman Swalwell. We're going to try to reestablish that, but we are tracking this story that former President Trump's DOJ, under two different attorneys general, were targeting not just lawmakers. There were two lawmakers, they were Democrats, but also, as we're just hearing Eric Swalwell say there, about 20 Democrats and 20 Republican staff members.

We're going to take a quick break and be right -- actually, I talked long enough to buy time to get him back. Here he is. It's like magic, the way signals are reestablished.

Okay, Congressman, I hope -- I don't know, this looks like it might be frozen again, unfortunately. This signal. Okay, we're going to try to get Congressman Swalwell back. But up next, a new lawsuit asking a court to shut down a popular AI chatbot. It alleges the platform implied to a teenager that he could kill his parents for limiting his screen time. The lawyer leading that lawsuit is going to join us ahead. Stay with CNN.

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