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CNN News Central

Trump's Long History With the Media; Stanley Recall; Happy Birthday, Taylor!; Executives on Edge After UnitedHealthcare CEO Killed; Amazon to Donate $1 Million to Trump's Inauguration; Trump, RFK Jr, & Vaccines; Reality Show Shake-Up?; RPT: Trump to Let RFK Jr. Probe Debunked Vaccine Claims; Taylor Swift Brings Joy to Kids at Kansas City Hospital. Aired 8:30-9a ET.

Aired December 13, 2024 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:32:03]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Despite declaring and often repeating that he sees the media as the enemy of the state, Donald Trump is changing his tune for now. Speaking at the New York Stock Exchange yesterday, he called journalists at Time Magazine, really very professional people. That is after he was named Time's Person of the Year yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: We had a great first term, despite a lot of turmoil caused unnecessarily. And, but the media's tamed down a little bit. They're liking us much better now, I think.

If they don't, we'll have to just take them on again, and we don't want to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now is Chief Media, CNN's Chief Media Analyst, Brian Stelter, for much more on this. What more is he saying about?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: He has a point there, doesn't he, Kate? When he says the media is tamed down. We have seen that from some news outlets in the country in recent weeks.

We have reporting the reliable sources newsletter this morning about the L.A. Times, about the owner of the L.A. Times trying to tame down the opinion section, making the headlines more bland, trying to make sure it's not too harsh. So, I do think that the president like has a point and he's noticing the same thing, some viewers are seeing. But just because it's happening at some publications, maybe Time Magazine is another example.

You know, Time was flattering Trump yesterday. He returned the flattery toward Time. We're seeing that at some places. We're not seeing that at all. And most importantly, it's got to be driven by the reporting and by the facts. When there are important investigations and reporting to be done, it's got to be done.

And toning down the headlines won't change that.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, that's a great point. There's also something else kind of happening I want to ask you about.

STELTER: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: When it comes to Voice of America, Donald Trump has said that he wants Kari Lake to take it over, and for a lot of people know this, but if they don't, I mean, it's an international -- how would you describe an international broadcaster that it gets funding from the US government?

STELTER: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: Is that going to happen? It may happen, but it may take a while. And it's a really interesting example of how Trump is trying to use his power more aggressively in a second term.

BOLDUAN: And remind people why that is concerning --

STELTER: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: To so many journalists.

STELTER: This is a U.S.-funded international broadcaster covering the world. The idea is to present democratic values by reporting real news, not by pushing up propaganda. It's called Voice of America.

There's some concern that Trump, President Trump wants it to be Voice of Trump, that he wants to turn it into a pro-Trump propaganda organ. There were some kind of ham fisted, halfhearted attempts to do this during Trump's first term in office. It didn't go well.

In fact, federal investigators found that there might have been crimes committed inside that government agency back in 2020. Well, Trump is now taking power again. I think he has a better plan for how to do this. That's why he announced Kari Lake to run the VOA.

The only issue is presidents don't normally name directors of the VOA, so there's actually a lot of government mechanics that have to happen to install her. We will see over the next couple of years if that actually happens, but I'm watching it closely because the VOA could be turned into, theoretically, more of a pro-government propaganda machine as opposed to an independent news outlet. The journalists of VOA would fear that, but clearly some Trump allies would like to see that happen.

[08:35:12]

BOLDUAN: Hmm, definitely something to watch.

STELTER: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: But interesting. The timeline seems to be it could be a lot longer than what people might think in terms of (inaudible) --

STELTER: And if it's not true, a lot of the stories recovering right now we're talking about --

BOLDUAN: Mm-hmm.

STELTER: Trump's first 100 days, for example, but some of these cases take a long time within the government to actually play out.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, it's great point, Brian. Great to see you.

STELTER: You too. Thanks.

BOLDUAN: Coming up. John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR/ CORRESPONDENT: All right this morning, Stanley recalling millions of travel mugs and tumblers after they were designated a burn hazard. Also, breaking news. Happy birthday, Taylor Swift.

Thirty five years old, old enough to be president, just saying. I have to be honest, I did not get her anything. But find out what she's doing to give back herself to mark the occasion.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:14]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: The murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson has sent shockwaves through corporate America, prompting companies nationwide to reevaluate their security protocols. We now know the suspect was not a member of that health group, but investigators say he may have targeted Thompson because of the company's size. Experts are warning of potential copycats, particularly given the strange wave of social media support for the accused killer.

Joining me now is Jacob Silverman, CEO of Kroll Financial and Risk Advisory Firm. If you were a betting man when you look at what has happened. I mean, how unsafe is it?

And who do you think may be next when it comes to being under threat?

JACOB SILVERMAN, CEO, KROLL: Well, good morning. Thank you for having me. We are in a complex world is what I'd like to call a VUCA world.

If you know that term volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity. So, we have to be on our guard all the time. I can't tell you who's next, but I would say that this really is a pan industry phenomenon.

It's not just about health care. We are seeing threat actors targeting and thinking about really every part of the industrial complex. SIDNER: When you say you're seeing threat actors, I mean, are you all actually seeing threats increase, whether it be electronically, you know, people calling on the phone, in person? What are you -- What's sort of the landscape out there after this happened?

SILVERMAN: Well, we're seeing threats pretty much across every mode. Certainly, in the virtual world that has been existent now for years, if not decades --

SIDNER: Right.

SILVERMAN: It's increasingly happening in the physical world. There are posters being posted throughout New York City, targeting CEOs and people of interest. So really, it's across every modality that one could imagine.

And the key for CEOs and their boards is to assess how to synthesize all of those signals of information that can form a threat assessment to protect the companies and particularly the CEOs of those companies.

SIDNER: How much of this worry because you talked about social media and there's this, it really is an obsession. When you go online, you cannot avoid seeing something about the suspect in this case, and most, a vast majority of it is positive towards him. Hero worship even, there's merchandise and all these things.

When you see this, does this give you some sense that a copycat is bound to appear? Bound to happen?

SILVERMAN: I can't predict if it's bound to happen. What I can predict is that there are copycats observing all of these actors, and many of the initiators of these types of social media phenomenon are looking to create copycat actors around the world. So, the key is to be able to assess and get ahead of those signals well ahead of when it could actually pose an imminent physical threat to an executive.

SIDNER: I'm curious of a comparison because when I started, you started looking at this and what this has meant to industries. Back in 2011, there was Occupy Wall Street, right? And you had the 1% versus the 99% and people just furious with what had happened in 2007.

And eight with the financial crisis that hit so many Americans. It hurt so many Americans and the backlash to that that lasted a very long time. Some of the video of, you know, people sitting out and banging drums, yelling, very upset with corporate America.

Can you compare and contrast that time to what's happened now?

SILVERMAN: I think that in any time, they're going to be threat actors. And I'm not here to speak about various types of motives. There's motive of ideology.

There's motive of criminality. There are people simply holding a grudge. What I know is that executives and companies need to be vigilant across all of those dimensions because you never know how that threat will expose itself, and make itself an imminent danger to an executive.

So, the ability to know that any one of those aspects, those dimensions are prevalent, whether or not it was a decade ago or today, it will be here really for the duration of time. There will always be people who are looking to create and so, chaos and concern and create security threats.

SIDNER: Jacob Silverman, thank you so much for coming. I appreciate it.

SILVERMAN: Thank you.

SIDNER: Interesting analysis. John.

BERMAN: Alright, this morning we have learned that Amazon is donating one million dollars to the presidential inauguration, just like Facebook parent company, Meta. And just like Meta's CEO, Mark Zuckerberg, CNN has learned that Amazon founder Jeff Bezos will meet with President elect Trump in the coming days. With us now is Willa Remus, technology news analysis writer for the Bezos owned Washington Post.

Great to see you this morning. So, what do these guys hope to gain with this investment of not just money, but also face time?

[08:45:05]

WILL OREMUS, TECHNOLOGY NEWS ANALYSIS WRITER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Yeah, there's a lot to gain. There's a lot to lose for them under the Trump administration. There's a lot to lose for them under the Trump administration.

These two companies in particular, they're figureheads, have been attacked by Trump in the past. Trump has gone after Mark Zuckerberg. He went after Jeff Bezos during his first administration, and they don't want that to happen again.

They're trying to get on his good side because Amazon has cloud contracts to be won or lost. Meta, Trump has threatened to revoke Section 230, which Meta relies on heavily. There's a TikTok ban on the table, which Meta stands to benefit from.

So, I think you're seeing all the tech companies trying to get out ahead. And they've realized that with Trump, personal relationships are crucial. He has to, as an ally, if you want to have any chance of benefiting from his leadership.

BERMAN: Yeah, that gets to my next question here, which is what, besides money, because they've literally donated money to the inauguration, which is something Facebook didn't do. I guess Amazon gave a little bit in previous times. But what else, besides money, can they give Trump to win him over?

OREMUS: You know, it's funny, they can give Trump praise. They can personally say nice things about him. If you saw Mark Zuckerberg after the assassination attempt, described Trump as badass. I think they understand that for Trump, a lot of politics is personal. And they're up against rivals who are already on good side, if you think about Elon Musk, who was Trump's biggest donor during the campaign. He's a rival in AI, in space exploration with some of the other tech giants.

So in a sense here, they're playing, they're trying to play catch up and make sure that they aren't seen as the enemy.

BERMAN: How much does this run counter, as far as you know, to their personal politics? Is this something that goes against some of their beliefs or don't they just care? Is this just business at this point?

OREMUS: I think it's mostly business, honestly. I've said for years that tech titans are not liberal or conservative. They're capitalists.

They didn't get to be some of the richest companies in the history of the world. Some of the richest people in the history of the world by being ideologues on principle when there's money on the table. They know where their bread is buttered.

I think they see how things are lined up in the Trump administration, that if they're not on his good side, they're going to suffer. You know, as far as their personal politics, it's hard to say. Both Zuckerberg and Bezos have been very cagey about their personal politics over the years.

Certainly a lot of employees at the big tech companies lean left, although that's probably been shifting a bit as well. But ultimately they're out there to advance their company's interests and they know that the way to do it is to make sure that they're on Trump's good side if at all possible.

BERMAN: So you watch this stuff more closely than just about anybody. So, what will you be watching for over the next year or two years to see if Bezos and Zuckerberg have been successful in their treaties?

OREMUS: Yeah, well, I mean, and to be clear, it's not just Bezos or Zuckerberg. When Trump won, you saw all of the big tech CEOs, one after another, congratulating him on Elon Musk's X. I mean, it was almost like a copy paste. We had Sundar Pichai of Google, Satya Nadella at Microsoft, all the tech CEOs were quick to congratulate, and that's not a tradition, by the way.

I mean, they didn't do that, most of them didn't do that when Joe Biden won in 2020. What they have to gain, you know, Meta, there's a ban on TikTok that Congress has passed. Trump may have some say over whether that takes effect or not.

Excuse me. Meta stands to benefit greatly if TikTok is banned, they also, you know, during his first administration, Trump repeatedly threatened social media companies with revoking Section 230. This is the liability shield for content that they distribute online.

Whether they, whether he will go after that again may depend in part on whether he stands to benefit. He's using these social media companies as being on his side or as being beholden to liberal interests who want to, want them to take down. Conspiracy theories, extremism, hate speech, that sort of thing.

BERMAN: Will Oremus from the Washington Post. Big fan of your work. Thanks so much for being with this morning. Appreciate the discussion.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Donald Trump says he is going to listen to RFK Jr. when it comes to childhood vaccination programs. Why that is so concerning to so many physicians right now? And reality TV facing a shake-up.

The National Labor Relations Board has classified contestants on one hit Netflix reality show as employees. And this could have ripple effects across all of reality TV now.

[08:50:15]

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UNKNOWN FEMALE: So, where does this leave us?

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: Donald Trump says in a new interview with Time Magazine that he will let Robert F. Kennedy Jr., his pick to be the next HHS secretary, study a repeatedly long debunked claim about vaccines and autism. Again, the decades old claim that vaccines have anything to do with autism has been repeatedly proven false. Donald Trump, though, says he's ready to study it, and he also kept open the possibility in this interview that he could move to end childhood vaccination programs.

Time asked Donald Trump, if RFK Jr. moves to end childhood vaccination programs, would you sign off on that? Trump's response, we're going to have a big discussion. The autism rate is at a level that nobody ever believed possible.

If you look at things that are happening, there's something causing it. Joining me right now is Dr. Peter Hotez, the co-director of vaccine development at Texas Children's, and also the author of the book Vaccines Did Not Cause Rachel's Autism, My Journey as a Vaccine Scientist, Pediatrician, and Autism Dad. Dr. Hotez, It is always good to see you.

Thank you so much for coming in. I mean, you, I saw you say this theory --

[08:55:29]

PETER HOTEZ, DEAN, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE AT BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: It's (inaudible) --

BOLDUAN: That vaccines cause autism is possibly the most thoroughly debunked conspiracy theory in modern science. Why does this still take hold on people and what does it do to have the incoming president of the United States talk like that.

HOTEZ: Well, it's potentially very damaging. The simple reason is people are already declining to give kids their vaccines over the last year from 2023 to 2024. We've had a fivefold rise in pertussis cases in the United States.

We've gone from four measles outbreaks in 2023 to 15 measles outbreaks in this year. We've got polio and the wastewater in New York. In New York State in 2022, so this is a very fragile vaccine ecosystem and these illnesses can come roaring back, and it's all based on nonsense.

We've been at this for 25 years, and RFK Jr. is one of the lead anti- vaccine activists pushing this discredited theory. And he keeps moving the goalposts on what he says is the reason for autism. At first, in the late 1990s, early 2000s, they said it was the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine.

That was disproven through large epidemiological studies. And then Robert F. Kennedy Jr., in 2005, wrote an article in Rolling Stone Magazine and Salon claiming it was thimerosal preservative. That was debunked again, through large epidemiologic studies and even non-human primate studies.

Then they switched it up and said it was spacing vaccines too close together. So it became this kind of whack a mole game. Then another one would pop up that it was aluminum vaccines.

Then they switched for a while to HPV vaccine for cervical cancer and other cancers. They said it was causing infertility and autoimmunity. So, they keep on moving the goal posts, and each time the scientific community puts enormous resources into debunking the claims.

BOLDUAN: You, as I mentioned, you wrote a book about this. Your experience professionally and personally with your daughter who has autism. You also, to add to this with your experience, you say you were asked in 2017 by NIH to speak with RFK Jr. about these debunked theories about vaccines and autism.

Can you talk to me about how that went was he open to listening to the science?

HOTEZ: Unfortunately, he was not. We embarked on long cell phone discussions throughout 2017, and then it reverted to emails. And was mediated by a third individual, and he wasn't seemed, he didn't seem very interested in the science to me because I would go through all of these things.

I would explain the genetic basis of autism. We have over a hundred autism genes now. We have the gene, for instance, for my daughter, Rachel's autism and intellectual disabilities.

So, autism is a series of neurodevelopmental processes that begin before the baby's born, before a baby ever sees the vaccines, and then they continue to accelerate. Interestingly, I did mention to him because he did have a history as being an environmental attorney. By the way, there are medications.

If you take them early in pregnancy, they could affect the autism genes and cause conditions that resemble autism after birth. For instance, valproic acid, an anti-seizure medication, does that if you give it early in pregnancy. And he had no interest in that, and he still kept on pushing the fake vaccine narrative. So, I found it to be an exercise in frustration.

I guess he was frustrated with me as well.

BOLDUAN: I think Dr. Peter Hotez and the questions he could raise in confirmation hearings would be a good place to start for anyone who wants to really start diving into what needs to be asked of the next Health and Human Services Secretary. Dr. Hotez, thank you for coming on. Sara.

SIDNER: Fresh off the end of her record breaking Eras Tour, Taylor Swift kicking off her 35th birthday celebrations with a surprise visit to Children's Mercy Hospital in Kansas City.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACE ZEMBSCH, PEDIATRIC CANCER PATIENT: It was a once in a lifetime experience. I was flabbergasted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Sweet. Taylor Swift has become a regular, as you might imagine, in Kansas City. Why?

Well, she's attending games at Arrowhead Stadium to support her boyfriend, Chiefs Tight End, Travis Kelce, if you didn't already figure that out. Alright, wildly popular drinkware brand, Stanley, is recalling millions of its travel mugs due to a danger of burns. The recall applies to their switchback and trigger action models.

The company says the lids on these massive mugs can loosen --