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Police: Two Killed, Six Injured, Shooter Dead At WI School. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired December 16, 2024 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:33:53]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We are tracking breaking news this afternoon. A deadly school shooting at a Christian private school in Madison, Wisconsin. Police say at least two people were killed and several others injured.

And CNN has just obtained city of Madison Fire scanner audio that captured the moment the call about the shooting came in.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: IFY, go ahead?

BROADCASTIFY, CITY OF MADISON FIRE: Got a call coming in at Abundant Life Christian Church, 4901, for engine five and medic five for a shooter. Just advising someone was shot.

(END AUDIO FEED)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The suspected shooter is also dead, we have learned according to police. This all happened at, as you heard there, Abundant Life Christian School. It's a K through 12 school, just under 400 students.

Here's the moment that emergency services learned the shooter was down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SPEAKER 1: From NYPD that the scene is secure.

SPEAKER 2: I saw the shooter's down, they're saying EMS can come in now. Looking for room C218 and C216.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's bring in CNN's senior law enforcement analyst, Andrew McCabe.

[14:35:02] And, Andy, you hear there on the call, they're looking for two classrooms. That is something that we appear to have learned from that?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, just -- just really heartbreaking to hear those transmissions as -- as cool and professional as the -- as the 911 folks have been on those recordings. It just kind of strikes you right in the heart.

Again, you know, here we are at the scene of another mass shooting. This this one, again, at a school. And we know from what we've been told by authorities that it was one the shooter was a current or former student. I haven't heard that that detail clarified yet.

So our first responders are doing -- going through this same awful ritual that so many others have gone through. They are responding to a scene of unimaginable carnage. You have multiple people shot, already removed and taken to the hospital.

And they are trying to piece together exactly how this happened. Identify the shooter, contact family members, conduct at least health and safety welfare checks at wherever this person's residence is.

Because, oftentimes, these shooters strike out against family members before they head to their ultimate destination.

And it's just a -- a sad and macabre ritual for so many first responders and families and communities around the country. But we're here -- here we are in Madison, Wisconsin, going through the same thing.

SANCHEZ: Yes, sad to see that it's happened yet again.

And, Andy, I'm curious to get your perspective on an angle that we've yet to discuss, specifically on the idea of tactics that would prevent something like this from happening as we've seen an uptick in shootings throughout the last few decades in the United States.

We actually heard Police Chief Shon Barnes asked by a reporter if there were metal detectors at the school that would have gone off had someone walked in and gone through one with a firearm.

Let's listen to the response from Chief Barnes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What sort of gun-related policies, if any, were in place at the school? And did the school have metal detectors?

SHON BARNES, CHIEF, MADISON, WISCONSIN, POLICE DEPARTMENT: I'm not aware that the school had metal detectors, nor should schools have metal detectors. It's a school. It's a safe space.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Andy, what do you make of that perspective? You know, the idea that metal detectors don't belong in schools, irrespective of how effective they might be at preventing something like this from being carried out?

MCCABE: You know, Boris, there's always -- communities have vigorous conversations around adding safety measures to schools. There's really no limit to the number of things you could do. You're limited only by budget and creativity.

But increased door locks, greater surveillance, really monitoring the perimeter with -- with human beings, security specialists, be they law enforcement or private contractors, metal detectors, massive fences.

These are all things we can do. But I think what the chief is alluding to there is, is that what we want? Do we want our kids to have to go to school in locked-down compounds that look more like jails than they do elementary schools?

And so I think, obviously, something that Madison will -- will struggle with for some time going forward, trying to figure out what the appropriate level of security measures are.

No security measure is perfect. Sandy Hook Elementary, 12 years and a few days ago today, had just recently imposed new security restrictions on access to the school. All the doors remained locked during the day.

There was video surveillance outside the front entrance to the door, and you had to be, like, recognized by video or have I.D. or something like that before they would let you in.

Adam Lanza simply took out an A.R.-15 and shot his way through the glass door and entered. So there, you know, I think we need to be realistic about what we can expect from those security measures.

But clearly, you know, the profusion of weapons in schools, in places of learning, places that are supposed to be safe spaces, kind of screams out at this point that we need to be doing something differently.

KEILAR: Yes. And I wonder what you think about whether we are or not, Andy. Because I think of the conversations that I know we're all going to have, people watching this program right now are going to have with their friends.

Some of them are going to say, you know what? I had to turn off the TV. I couldn't even watch. I didn't see the point. It just upsets me so much. Some are going to say I couldn't turn away. It upsets me so much.

[14:40:01]

And yet, I feel like almost all of them will say, I don't feel like there's anything I can do about it. And is there, is there anything? Where are we as a nation at tackling this problem? MCCABE: Well, Brianna, we're nowhere -- we're nowhere, because it

keeps happening. We know it's going to happen again. It's happening today. It's going to happen again in the near future. I can guarantee you that.

And every time it happens, we do just about nothing. That doesn't mean there aren't things we can't do. We could do things.

We could -- we could support and enact legislation that changes the -- the context of gun ownership in this country and emphasizes gun safety and responsibility with the firearms that you own and keeping them out of the hands of children and doing -- and really vigorous, consistent background checks across the country.

We could stop selling people - stop -- you eliminate the ability to purchase guns without a background check.

Now, we don't know if any of those factors were relevant in this shooting, but we're talking about a big problem here, right? That these are the things that impact the level of gun violence in our country.

But the fact is, we do not have the political will to improve this situation. We don't have that.

And so as -- as citizens, it can be frustrating because you, like, what can I do? Well, what you can do is start supporting people who think the same way that you do about a need for greater gun safety, a need for greater safety in our schools, and are committed to the idea of reducing gun violence.

But until we do that, as long as we keep sending the same sort of political calculations to Congress every year, we can't really -- we're not we're not really ever going to change the fundamentals around this.

And those are those are the only things that we can do in a free, democratic society. We can enact laws and try to make things better for everyone. Or we can just keep shaking our heads, turning off the television and waiting for the next mass shooting.

SANCHEZ: Andrew McCabe, appreciate the perspective. As always, thanks so much for being with us.

Again, we are tracking the breaking news this afternoon. Two people killed, at least six injured, a shooter at a private Christian school in Madison, Wisconsin, dead of an apparent self-inflicted wound.

We are set to hear from law enforcement in the next hour. So stay tuned for that many more details as we get them. Stay with CNN.

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[14:47:06]

KEILAR: We are continuing to follow our breaking news out of Madison, Wisconsin. A community in shock after a deadly school shooting. The 83rd school shooting of 2024, the most of any year since CNN began tracking them in 2008.

SANCHEZ: That means there have been 56 shootings reported on K through 12 campuses, 27 on university and college campuses.

Police say, in this situation, a gunman killed at least two people at the Abundant Life Christian School. The shooter found dead as police arrived on the scene. Several people there also transported to the hospital with injuries.

Let's get the latest now with CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, who has been following all the developments.

And, Shimon, we are set to hear from law enforcement in less than an hour. What do you anticipate they are going to share with the press?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME & JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, one of the things I think there's a lot of questions about the victims here. Most importantly, the conditions and also the age range. And there can be anywhere from very small children here, because this is a school that's K through 12. So that's what I think one -- one of the biggest questions.

And obviously motive. But they're not going to be able to answer that. Perhaps maybe the type of weapon used here, some of the partners that are working with them, like the ATF and the FBI.

And the age of the shooter, if we can learn that. It's really striking to me already that the police were able to say that this is a juvenile that was the shooter. So it's going to raise a lot of questions. And so I'm curious as to the age of -- of the shooter.

And then, you know, there's so much work that investigators need to do to try and figure out the motive, to try and piece together how all this unfolded. So well probably get a better timeline from the chief.

You know, as you can see already, he's been giving a lot of information. He held a press conference fairly quickly to put out as much as he could put out. And also, most importantly, to let people know that there was no longer any threat.

So I think things along those lines, well hear from them. And there will be certainly a lot of questions that reporters will have about the victims, the shooter, and exactly how all this unfolded.

KEILAR: Yes, we have been seeing over the course of the last hour the reunification of some of these kids, Shimon, with their parents. And some of them are just so little. We've seen these almost babes in arms being carried out to buses to be reunited with parents.

PROKUPECZ: Yes. So when -- I had a chance to speak to Chief Barnes again after the press conference. And one of the things that he told me was very concerning for him right now, was the -- the age group, in terms of the victims. Would be very small children, very young, young children to -- to some adults. One of the adults being a staffer. He wouldn't call the adult a

teacher. He just described it to me as a -- as a staffer who has some pretty strong connections to this -- to this community. So that was something that he told me.

[14:50:06]

And it's -- he said, they're going to there are some very, very what he said we're little kids, tiny kids that we're potential victims here. And they we're still trying to sort it out.

There was a lot of chaos at the hospital, so they we're trying to sort more out. Understandably, given that the probably immediately went into a mass casualty incident. And so they had to gather a lot of information.

Then you have to also assume there will be people coming to the hospital that maybe weren't as seriously injured but we're running from the scene, may have been injured in other ways, not necessarily by the gunfire. But just from the sound of the gunfire, running from the scene, they may have been injured.

So we'll have a better understanding of everything and how everything unfolded.

And I think he'll - he'll be as forthcoming as he possibly could, given that we've already seen so much from him.

And, you know, they quickly came out and corrected the number of dead from when it was three to five5 and then back to three. And there was a lot of confusion with the hospital. And so they need to still sort that out.

But there are some very, very critically injured people who are fighting for their lives.

KEILAR: Yes. And we are, by the way, expecting there to be another press conference, I believe, coming up here in the next 40 minutes. They hustled and got that one together very quickly.

A lot of people in that community, a lot of people watching, have some questions.

Shimon, thank you so much for staying on this and for your reporting.

Stay with CNN. We'll be right back with more on our breaking news. Two killed, six injured. The shooter deceased at this school shooting in Madison, Wisconsin, at the Abundant Life Christian School.

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[14:55:51]

SANCHEZ: In just minutes from now, we are anticipating an update from police after officials say a gunman killed at least two people before taking their own life at the Abundant Life Christian School. The shooter found dead on the scene as police arrived.

KEILAR: Back with us now, retired FBI supervisory special agent, Rob D'Amico, and retired NYPD detective, Michael Alcazar.

Rob, as we are waiting to learn more information here, just put where we are in perspective, where we are in this investigation.

ROB D'AMICO, RETIRED FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Yes. So I think what's really important is, was this a former student, a current student? Was there a connection between where he went to and where he was in the school prior? Like more like targeted or was it just he came in with a grudge? And did they have threats before this?

I think that's really important to get out right now. But the rest of the investigation is going to start -- come slowly though.

SANCHEZ: And, Michael, what are you most looking forward to hearing from investigators that will give you an idea of what exactly transpired today?

MICHAEL ALCAZAR, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: I want to find out who the shooter was, what his identity is. Did they identify his parents, his residence? Did he get the weapon from his house? Did the parents have the weapons and did not have control?

We've seen, in the past, before, where parents were arrested because they didn't have control of their weapons. They didn't have the responsibility to protect the weapon.

Did this kid actually take this -- this active shooter, actually take this weapon without the parents' permission? And did he have -- how did he have access to it?

I also want to know from the school, did the school have any incidents reported in the past? Oftentimes, schools hesitate to notify the police about incidences. But they should, right? Because maybe if the police responded and investigated something that this active shooter did in the past, it might have deterred him.

So I often have -- the school should notify the police. Even-- even students should notify the police if something suspicious happens. If this guy made threats online, social media.

So these are all the things that we're looking right now. Comb -- combing through his Facebook, his Instagram, his social media just to see if he's -- why he did this and why he targeted this school.

SANCHEZ: Michael and Rob, please stand by as we watch more young children removed from the sanctuary, the -- the area of the school where the church was. Some of them being loaded onto buses that we understand have been moved to a nearby medical center that's being used for reunification.

Some of them apparently, alongside adults, possibly their parents picking them up there at the church. Much more on our breaking news still to come. A deadly shooting at a

school in Madison, Wisconsin. We are set to hear from law enforcement again in just minutes.

Stay with CNN. We're back in moments.

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