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Judge: No Presidential Immunity For Trump In New York Hush Money Case; Bomb Kills Top Russian General In Moscow; Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL) On Trump's Meeting With TikTok CEO As Ban Looms. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 17, 2024 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:33:33]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump's transition team is blasting a judge's ruling that the president-elect does not have presidential immunity in the New York hush money case.

A jury found Trump guilty of 34 felony counts back in May for falsifying business records to cover up payments to adult film star Stormy Daniels. But after his conviction the Supreme Court ruled that presidents have broad immunity from prosecution for official acts, which caused the court to postpone, for example, the sentencing indefinitely.

Now, New York Judge Juan Merchan has decided the conviction stands because the evidence that led to Trump's conviction was not related to his official conduct as president.

CNN's Kara Scannell is joining us now. How did the judge come to this decision? You were there for the trial. You watched all of it. You watched as even one more person after another took the stand. How'd he get here?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So he goes through this evidence -- the evidence that Trump's team is challenging and saying that testimony from White House aides, like Hope Hicks and Madeleine Westerhout, and Trump's tweets when he was in the Oval Office were all official evidence and should never come into the trial based on the Supreme Court's ruling back in July.

And the judge walked through all of this and ultimately, he concludes that this case was about a private matter. It was about hush money paid to a porn star and the coverup that followed. And he said it is logical and reasonable to conclude that any communications about that were also personal and unofficial. So that's the bottom line here.

[07:35:00]

He goes on to say the "...court concludes that if error occurred regarding the introduction of the challenged evidence, such error was harmless in light of the overwhelming evidence of guilt." SIDNER: OK.

SCANNELL: So he is saying that even if there were any mistakes it doesn't matter because there was just so much evidence that the prosecution had proven their case and so therefore, he's saying this conviction stands and he's not dismissing it.

SIDNER: What happens now? I mean, could there be a sentencing of Donald Trump before he goes into office or even when he's in office?

SCANNELL: It's possible he could get sentenced before Inauguration Day. Trump's team still has another motion to dismiss teed up. That one is focused on saying that the D.A.'s office and the judge can't move forward because Trump is president-election and any ongoing litigation would interfere in his decision-making -- you know, like hang over his head. And the D.A.'s office is saying that is not the case they're challenging this. The judge will have to decide that first.

And Trump's team is also teeing up a motion to dismiss based on some juror misconduct. We don't know what that is yet. We might learn the details today or tomorrow. That is expected to be made public at some point.

So there are two ongoing motions. But lawyers I've spoken to have said that there really is nothing to stop Judge Merchan from sentencing Trump before election. The D.A. makes that argument.

And in the -- one of the D.A.'s filings they even say that the judge, because Trump is a first-time offender and based on the crime that he was convicted of, he doesn't have to be sent to jail. So for that reason they're saying there's also another -- that's just another reason why he could sentence him before the inauguration. It would tie it up. And a sentencing would be final judgment, which means that Trump would be a convicted felon even if he goes on to appeal it.

SIDNER: Kara Scannell, interesting developments there. Thank you so much -- appreciate it -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, breaking overnight a bomb hidden in an electric scooter killed a Russian general who was wanted by Ukraine for using chemical weapons. Lieutenant Gen. Igor Kirillov was the chief of Russia's nuclear, biological, and chemical protection forces. The explosion was just four miles from the Kremlin.

We've got CNN's Fred Pleitgen live in Moscow with the very latest. Good morning, Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there. Good morning, John. And we're actually live at the scene where all of this happened.

And you're absolutely right -- Lt. Gen. Igor Kirillov is certainly one of the highest ranking Russian military members who was killed outside of the battlefields in and around Ukraine. And you can see behind me that the investigative committees are still

very much working the scene. The area has been widely cordoned off. It has been so since the early morning hours since we got here.

And it was in the early morning hours that Gen. Kirillov and an aide left that entrance that you see over there where you see those investigators there right now. And then apparently there was a bomb inside of an electric scooter that was planted there that went off as the two left that building, killing both of them instantly.

The Russians are saying it was about 300 grams of TNT that was inside that bomb. There was also a lot of shrapnel which obviously caused severe injuries, in effect leading to their death.

You can see now that the investigative committee has parked two vans over there seemingly trying to block the vision for us and obviously other people as well. Those were not there before.

And just to give you an idea about how powerful this blast actually was, 300 grams of TNT doesn't sound like very much but if we pan over there we can see that in the adjacent building on the other side of the street, even several floors up, there are windows that have been shattered by the power of this explosion.

As you can imagine, John, the Russians absolutely furious about this. There's been Russian politicians who have come out. This is officially being dealt with as a terrorist attack. There are many who are ripping into the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians, for their part, have already claimed responsibility for this, calling the general a legitimate target, John.

BERMAN: Extraordinary developments, and Fred, to have you right in the middle of it all. Thank you so much for your reporting. We'll check back in with you in a bit -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: For more on this joining us right now is White House spokesman on national security issues, John Kirby joining us from the White House. John, thank you so much for jumping on.

Let's start there. A bomb hidden in an electric scooter. Fred Pleitgen just showing how powerful that blast is.

A source tells CNN -- a source with knowledge of an operation says Ukraine's security services were behind the assassination. Is that the view of the White House?

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: We're still processing all of this information coming in overnight, Kate. I'm not in a position today to say definitively exactly what happened here and who was responsible. We're going to be obviously diving into it as best we can and certainly talking to the Ukrainians about what they know. But I'm not in a position here this morning to give out a whole lot more information about it.

BOLDUAN: I certainly understand that. Kirillov -- this man -- he's been sanctioned by the U.K. for the way -- it was described as abhorrent use of inhumane chemical weapons on the battlefield in Ukraine. The Biden administration sanctioned Russia in May for chemical weapons used against Ukrainian forces.

What does it mean to have this man off the battlefield, so to speak, and to this ongoing war?

KIRBY: Well again, I want to be careful not to speak to this particular event.

[07:40:00]

But writ large it is without question that the Russian military has committed atrocities on the Ukrainian people. That the Russian military with orders from on high have used chemical weapons and other agents to kill, to mame, to hurt the Ukrainian people and the Ukrainian soldiers. And all of that is being documented so that Russia can be properly held to account.

What we're going to be focused on here is making sure that we continue to provide Ukraine with the weapons and the material they need to succeed on the battlefield and to continue to push the Russian forces back.

BOLDUAN: Taking a big left turn here and something else under your purview right now, John. I wanted to ask -- I want to ask you more about this drone mystery that has continued.

You say that currently these drones do not pose any sort of threat. The way I heard you say it is you assess they are commercial, lawful drones -- law enforcement drones, hobbyist drones is what people are seeing. Nothing anomalous. No criminal activity detected yet.

The mayor of Montvale, New Jersey was just on with us, and he essentially says he does not believe that. Let me play this for you.

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MAYOR MIKE GHASSALI, MONTVALE, NEW JERSEY: Someone is making a really bad decision by not coming clean and say that these are our drones between some sort of an operation. Nothing to see here. They are safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: And what the mayor is talking about as these are our drones, is he saying these are government drones? He is not happy with the response that he's been essentially getting from you guys.

What do you say?

KIRBY: Well, I would repeated what we've said yesterday and last night in a multiple agency statement that we have taken a serious look at this. We have gone through 5,000 some-odd sightings. We have added detection capabilities to the region. We've even sent up visual observers. And everything we're seeing to date, our assessment tells us that these are commercial drones, hobbyist drones, or law enforcement drones all operating legally and lawfully.

I mean, when people shoot video of that, Kate -- I mean, they're -- you're seeing the lights on these things - the navigation lights. That's what's required if you're going to be flying in U.S. airspace at night are navigation lights.

So clearly, they're being operated in a lawful and legal way. And we've seen nothing from their behavior -- nothing that tells us there's a public safety threat or a national security threat.

I do want to add one point though. We've still got about 100 leads that the FBI is following up on, and if we learn something that contradicts that or something more -- something additional, something more specific, my goodness, we're going to come public and we're going to talk about it. We have been trying to be as transparent with the American people as we can.

But I think it's also important to remember that there are a million drones registered with the FAA and thousands upon thousands fly in U.S. airspace legally every single day, including in the Northeast corridor. In fact, that's one of the busiest areas.

BOLDUAN: That's very true.

So, John, do you think this has been blown out of proportion?

KIRBY: I wouldn't say that Kate -- no. I mean, look, people are right to see these things and be concerned about it. I mean, I think what you're seeing, honestly, is the huge ecosystem of drones now really coming to light.

I mean, maybe people just didn't appreciate how many of these things are flying in U.S. airspace every single day, and it's only going to get more. There's other -- the numbers are only going to increase as the utility of these drones for commercial and law enforcement purposes, in particular, become apparent.

And that's why we're calling for more authorities from Congress. We need some legislative authorities to deal with the gaps and seams that exist between state officials and the federal government in how we manage this -- manage this airspace, which is only going to get more crowded.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. We're actually going to have an expert on to talk about their -- which is a huge gap being exposed of how advanced technology is here and the laws with regarding all of it.

Yesterday -- I want to circle back to Ukraine, John. Yesterday, the president-elect criticized the Biden administration authorizing Ukraine striking further into Russia. That authorization to use U.S. weapons to strike further into Russia.

The way he put it is: "I don't think they should have allowed it and certainly, not just weeks before I take over. Why would they do that without asking me what I thought?"

If that was decided before the election, which I've heard you say, why didn't you announce it before the election?

KIRBY: It was. It was decided before the election. It was decided in response to the North Korean soldiers, which we deemed, and the Ukrainians rightly deemed as an escalation by Russia.

And the reason we didn't come on out and announce it right away is because we wanted to give the Ukrainians a little bit of the element of surprise. For the ability to start using these weapons without the Russians knowing they were coming. I mean, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you're going to allow them a new capability like that to then go out and announce it so the Russians can be prepared for it and start moving their stuff around.

[07:45:00]

So we didn't announce it right away for good operational security reasons. It was no effort to obfuscate or block anybody or keep anything out. And as soon as the president-elect won and he named some people on his transition team in the national security space -- well, my goodness, we started having conversations with them and we kept them apprised of the decisions that we were making and what we had done and why we had done it.

BOLDUAN: It's great to get that clarity. I will say maintaining the element of surprise is something that we heard from the president- elect over and over again in that press conference. That's for sure.

John Kirby. Thank you so much John for jumping on from the White House. I really appreciate it.

KIRBY: You bet.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: All right, ticktock, ticktock, ticktock. The clock is ticking on the wildly popular social media app. See what I did there? It is scheduled to be banned on January 19 by law. So what Donald Trump just said that hints he might try to change that.

And we just spoke to the police chief in Madison, Wisconsin. What he told us on the investigation into the school shooting.

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[07:50:43]

SIDNER: On our radar this morning two Iranian citizens, including one who lives in Massachusetts, are charged in connection to drone strike in Jordan that killed three U.S. soldiers and injured more than 30 in January of this year. Federal prosecutors say the men worked together to dodge U.S. sanctions by shipping electronic equipment from Massachusetts to an Iranian company. The FBI says the navigation system in the drone that hit those U.S. troops -- it turned out it was made by that company. And in a few hours the verdict will be read in the trial for the man

accused of fatally stabbing the founder of Cash App in San Francisco last year. Nima Momeni is accused of killing Bob Lee over a dispute concerning Momeni's sister. Momeni has claimed self-defense. He's charged with first-degree murder, but the jury could also consider lesser charges such as manslaughter.

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Clip from HBO's "WHITE LOTUS."

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SIDNER: So, (INAUDIBLE), indeed. The hugely popular show "WHITE LOTUS" back for a third season, and this time HBO's star-studded cast will be checking into a resort in -- if you didn't figure this out already -- Thailand. It premieres February 16. The show has won 15 Emmys so far. And it should be noted HBO is part of Warner Bros. Discovery, along with CNN -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: I cannot wait.

SIDNER: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: That's all I'm going to say.

So you can now add Netflix CEO to the rapidly growing list of business and tech bold-faced names taking meetings with the president-elect before he heads back to the White House. A source tells CNN that Donald Trump will be meeting with Ted Sarandos at Mar-a-Lago today. Tomorrow it's Amazon founder and Washington Post owner Jeff Bezos' turn. Yesterday it was TikTok CEOs, a social media platform and its parent company are trying to fend off a coming ban in the United States.

Let's get over to CNN's Alayna Treene. She's got much more reporting on this from Florida for us. Alayna, what more are you learning?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Oh, well, Kate, I think one thing is very much clear here and that is that Donald Trump is really embracing kind of the reaction and support, I would say, from different business leaders and these tech CEOs. He is welcoming having these different CEOs.

This includes -- we know that he met with Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, Apple's Tim Cook, Google's Sundar Pichai, Alphabet Inc.'s founder -- co-founder, I should say, Sergey Brin.

I mean, a series of these really high-profile tech giants. These leaders of these tech giants going down to Florida to meet with Donald Trump. And it is something that Donald Trump is not only welcoming but touting.

And we heard him do that yesterday during that news conference. I want you to take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I had dinner with, sort of, almost all of them, and the rest are coming. And this is one of the big differences I think between -- we were talking about it before -- one of the big differences between the first term. In the first term, everybody was fighting me. In this term, everybody wants to be my friend. I don't know. My personality changed or something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now Kate, it's not just the way that these different leaders are treating Donald Trump, but we know from our reporting following these meetings that Donald Trump is also treating them with a much more friendly -- friendlier tone as well.

I remind you that during his first term, and really in the years after he had left the White House, Donald Trump had a very hostile relationship with many of these leaders. Take Mark Zuckerberg, for example. I mean, they were at odds repeatedly throughout his first term. Donald Trump blaming Mark Zuckerberg but also many of these other tech giants for what he believed were censorship of conservatives and also largely blamed a lot of these leaders for this election loss.

So this is very much a departure from the relationships we know that he had with these different leaders back during his first administration.

[07:55:00]

But one thing I also just want to get into more of is that meeting with TikTok CEO Shou Zi Chew yesterday afternoon at Mar-a-Lago because it's very notable given the timing of all of this. We know that TikTok, just hours before that meeting, had asked the Supreme Court to weigh in on the law that Congress passed last year that would essentially force it to sell its parent company or divest from its parent company by January 19.

This is something Donald Trump has said that he is going to look into. He also said that he is warming to TikTok because he believes that young voters helped him with his election. So that is very much a meeting to keep an eye on as we report out what exactly was discussed yesterday -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Alayna Treene. Thank you, Alayna. I really appreciate it -- John.

BERMAN: Yeah, Alayna just scooped us right there.

Let's play what President-elect Trump said about TikTok.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We'll take a look at TikTok. You know, I have a warm spot in my heart for TikTok because I won youth by 34 points, and there are those that say that TikTok has something to do with that. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So a not for nothing it turns out if you look at the exit polls. Kamala Harris won 18- to 34-year-olds by about 11 points.

But that aside, let's talk about the issue with TikTok. With us now is Democratic congressman from Illinois, Raja Krishnamoorthi. Congressman, thank you so much.

You are the ranking member on the Intelligence Committee, which obviously -- or you're part of this committee that passed this bill here which effectively bans TikTok after January 19.

So what about Donald Trump's warm spot? Can he use that to stop the TikTok ban?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): No, but what he can do is he can help to get ByteDance and TikTok to comply with the law and save TikTok by actually having ByteDance sell TikTok. That is what the law requires and that's what they should do.

Now, all three branches of government have validated the law, including a very ideologically diverse set of jurists on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals last week. And so it's time to move on. The clock is ticking. It's time for ByteDance to sell TikTok.

BERMAN: Again, that needs to happen by January 19, or it's not allowed on platforms is my understanding.

The D.C. Federal Appeals Court said that Congress lawfully passed this. The Supreme Court has a chance to weigh in.

What do you hope the Supreme Court does?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I hope and expect the Supreme Court is going to uphold the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals. And remember, the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals again denied a stay of their ruling.

And so, again, I just think that we want TikTok USA to survive. I think that a lot of people enjoy the content on TikTok. But now it's time for ByteDance, which is controlled by the CCP (the Chinese Communist Party) to divest itself of TikTok and allow it to continue to thrive.

BERMAN: So this is a little confusing when we talk about ByteDance, and we talk about TikTok, and we talk about stays, and this's and that's.

What happens on January 19 if nothing changes? If no court steps in to shift anything, if no one sells anything, what happens on January 19?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, right now, millions of people have TikTok on their phones. But Apple and Google, for instance, will no longer be able to distribute TikTok, for instance. They'll not be able to give updates of TikTok. All that being said, TikTok might still be sold by ByteDance even after January 19, in which case they would then be able to be distributed again.

But the main point is as of January 19, if they are in the process of selling, they can then ask for an extension, and the president can grant an extension of time in which they can complete their sale as well.

BERMAN: Not to get too much into the minutia but on January 19 Joe Biden will be president, so it would be Joe Biden --

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Right.

BERMAN: -- who would grant that extension.

Can they ask for that extension in the afternoon of January 20, or at that point is it too late?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I think it might be too late. I think they'd have to do it by January 19 --

BERMAN: OK.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: -- and I'm sure that they would.

I think that there are a lot of bidders right now who want to buy TikTok. So I think they should pick up the phone and call some of these people.

BERMAN: And again, that's what I'm getting to here -- some of the confusion.

If this goes into effect on January 19 and there are no extensions, Donald Trump is inaugurated on January 20. Is there anything that he could do, in your mind, if this law is in effect to get TikTok back on Apple or Google?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yeah, he could do two things. One, he could get ByteDance to sell TikTok and he can encourage that right now. And then secondly, he could encourage a repeal of the law.

But again, 360 members of --

BERMAN: Yeah.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: -- this House voted for that particular law, and the reason is very simple. As the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals repeatedly said this is a national security threat under the control of the Chinese Communist Party. They have hacked repeatedly numerous datasets, collected the data of hundreds of millions of Americans. And as the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals said, there's no reason not to believe that would happen with TikTok as well.

BERMAN: It's going to be an interesting couple of weeks here to see what the Supreme Court does, and what then happens by the 19th, and what happens immediately after.

Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, thanks so much for explaining it so well.