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Fifteen-year-old Shooter Kills Teacher and Student; Trish Kilpin is Interviewed about the Wisconsin Shooting; Paul Kanitra is Interviewed about Drone Sightings; Trump Sues "Des Moines Register"; Paris Flight Stowaway Caught Again. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 17, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Adults because people often say this is a teen problem.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

GUPTA: But with adults, 90 percent say they use the web daily, 41 percent online almost constantly.

There seems to be three factors in terms of the rabbit hole that you - that you bring up. One is how much we watch. And what I mean by that is, if you - if you watch five videos in a row, you are far more likely to watch the next one than if you've just watched one. So, it just becomes this spiraling sort of effect. How similar is the content? If you're watching very similar content over and over again, five music videos, for example, you're much more likely to watch another one. And then how we watch. If you're doing it in an uninterrupted environment versus an interrupted environment.

SIDNER: This is all so fascinating. But I feel like you can't just watch one video. It's like eating one M&M. Like, it's really hard to do.

GUPTA: Exactly.

SIDNER: But nobody wants brain rot. So, we got to watch our consumption. Doctor Sanjay Gupta, it's always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

And don't forget to head over to cnn.com and send us your questions on brain rot. Doctor Gupta will be back later this week to answer your questions.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we're getting new information from the police chief in Madison, Wisconsin, on the investigation into the school shooting there. What is the status of the so-called manifesto?

And then breaking just moments ago, Donald Trump just filed a lawsuit over a poll he doesn't like. Is this even a thing? And are we just weeks away from the end of TikTok in the United

States? The law right now says yes.

I'm John Berman, with Sara Sidner and Kate Bolduan. And this is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning we are learning more, and none of it good. It's all sad and tragic as new questions are now swirling as the country and a community faces tragedy again after a 15-year-old girl opened fire at her Christian school in Madison, Wisconsin, killing a teacher and killing a fellow student.

A short time ago, the police chief was on with us and told us that he hopes to reveal more about the victims a little later today. He did share with us that two of the students who were injured are still listed, in his words, "very critical condition."

The chief also walked us through some of the questions that he said remain unanswered today, including how much planning went into this teen suspect's attack. How did she get the gun? Who owns the gun? And what more do her parents know?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF SHON BARNES, MADISON, WISCONSIN, POLICE: We also want to look at if the parents may have been negligent. And that's a question that we'll have to answer with our district attorney's office. But at this time, it does not appear to be the case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: CNN's Whitney Wild on top of all of the latest in this investigation for us.

What's the latest you're learning this morning, Whitney?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Kate, the shooter in this case was identified as 15-year-old Natalie Rupnow. She went by Samantha, according to police. And what they're doing now is trying to put the pieces together. What led up to this tragic shooting that unfolded at 10:57 a.m. yesterday in a study hall where there were students of mixed grades, where we know a substitute teacher was injured, where a full-time teacher lost their lives, where a teenage student lost their lives, where two other students were injured so badly they were put into critical condition. Law enforcement trying to work backward from the event and try to figure out what led up to this.

Here's what Police Chief Shon Barnes said about what they're doing at this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF SHON BARNES, MADISON, WISCONSIN, POLICE: We have been made aware of a manifesto, if you want to call that, or some type of letter that's been posted by someone who alleged to be her friend. We haven't been able to locate that person yet, but that's something we're going to work on today.

We'll also be looking through her effects, if she had a computer or cell phone, to see if there are any transmissions between her and someone else. And that will give us an idea of what type of planning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: OK, we have also learned a lot more about the timeline here. What we know, again, is that this was at 10:57. By 11:00 a.m. there was a Dane County deputy there. 11:00 a.m. and 30 seconds, there was a Madison police officer there. They went inside immediately. By 11:05 a.m., they alerted that the shooter was down. They began lifesaving measures on the people inside. People were transported within 15 to 20 minutes from when police alerted that that shooter was down.

Further, Kate, we also know that the student who called 911 from inside that building was tragically as young as second grade. The police chief believes that that student was in another classroom.

[09:05:00]

But certainly, we've heard from students who heard that, a sound that no parent wants their child to hear. And the hope, of course, is that no child has to hear that again. But, at this point, that is only a hope, as this tragic day represents, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, no kidding. Whitney, thank you very much for the very latest.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, with us now is Trish Kilpin. She is the executive director of the Office of School Safety at the Wisconsin Department of Justice.

Thank you so much for joining us. And I'm sorry that the community is - and you are going through this yet another school shooting with a student killed and a teacher killed.

Can you give us an update on anything you know about the injured students who - two of whom were fighting for their lives in the hospital?

TRISH KILPIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OFFICE OF SCHOOL SAFETY AT WISCONSIN DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE: Thank you for having me today.

I, too, am saddened that this is happening and it continues to happen across our nation.

I don't have information to provide for you about the status of those injured.

SIDNER: OK.

What can you tell us about any clues about why a 15-year-old female student decided to do this? Are you getting any new insights into that?

KILPIN: Well, I, obviously, cannot talk about an ongoing investigation. I can tell you that school violence is preventable. And that when students decide to use violence, they often do so after being upset, feeling some kind of grievance or upset, and they decide to use violence to resolve that issue. They progress on what we call a pathway to violence, where we see indicators and warning behaviors that they are struggling. Sometimes we see deepening desperation and despair. And oftentimes peers and community members know about somebody's plan to engage in this type of dangerous behavior.

We urge all members of the public, students and families, to contact us at our 24/7 tip line, Speak Up Speak Out Wisconsin if they know anything about any student who may be planning a school attack or who may need assistance. We have SUSO here in Wisconsin, a 24/7 tip line.

SIDNER: I want to ask you about the tip line, because several years ago the DOJ did set up this free - the Wisconsin DOJ set up this free statewide tip line that does allow students to report things. And we were looking at it, my producer and I, Elaine, and the tip line had, you know, from one to 11 the number of things that people call about. And the things that students were calling about the most was being bullied.

Are there any clues - has that been looked into by authorities as part of this investigation to see if there is anything in that tip line that would indicate that this was either potentially going to happen, or that there is something that they can glean from there?

KILPIN: I'm sure that information will be clear as the investigation proceeds. But I will tell you that bullying and harassment is our most common tip. And since oftentimes school violence events happen after students experience those events, we're pleased to have that be our most reported tip so that we can provide intervention and get that information to the school early, potentially preventing violence.

We have received over 350 tips in -- on our tip line for concerns that there are someone planning a school attack, so that that attack could be averted. We receive tips for guns and weapons. In fact, we've received over 11,000 tips since we began the tip line.

SIDNER: Can I ask you, when you look at what happened at this particular school in Madison, what things worked and what things didn't, knowing now that from our reporting that a second grader was the one that called 911, that called police for help?

KILPIN: No second grader should have to be in a situation where their life is in danger at school. It's amazing that they had the fortitude and the ability to call in that situation.

We, in Wisconsin, have requirements for schools that they have to have a school safety emergency operations plan. They practice drills. They do many things. And this school, Abundant Life, was actively engaged with their learning about school safety, and their practicing for events. So, it situated themselves in a - in, unfortunately, a situation they had to draw upon to practice those emergency actions. SIDNER: Trish Kilpin, thank you so much for waking up early for us and

talking through this really devastating time there in Wisconsin. I appreciate you coming on this morning.

John.

BERMAN: All right, just in, we're getting new reaction from Russian officials said to be furious after a Russian general was killed overnight by a bomb in an electric scooter.

A woman who stowed away on a flight to Paris has been busted for a new stowaway plot.

[09:10:03]

Where she was sneaking away to this time.

And what if I told you that rats have been trained how to drive cars? And what if I told you they apparently like it? The end is nigh.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLDUAN: So, this morning, the White House is reiterating, saying once again they have found no threat to public safety or national security from the multiple drone sightings that have been seen across several states now.

[09:15:05]

White House National Security Spokesman John Kirby telling us earlier this morning that they are following up on the tips and the sightings, but they aren't finding any bad actors. Also saying this is highlighting, though, just how much the aviation landscape when it comes to drones is changing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Do you think this has been blown out of proportion?

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: I wouldn't say that, Kate. No, I mean, look, people are right to see - see these things and be concerned about it. I mean, I think what you're seeing, honestly, is the huge ecosystem of drones now really coming to light. I mean maybe people just didn't appreciate how many of these things are flying in U.S. airspace every single day, and it's only going to get more. There's - the numbers are only going to increase as the utility of these drones for commercial and law enforcement purposes, in particular, become apparent.

And that's why we're calling for more authorities from Congress. We need some legislative authorities to deal with the gaps and seams that exist between state officials and the federal government in how we manage this - manage this airspace, which is only going to get more crowded.

BOLDUAN: Yes, we're actually going to have an expert on to talk about the - which is a huge gap being exposed of how advanced technology is here and the laws with regarding all of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining us right now is New Jersey State Assemblyman Paul Kanitra for more on this.

Thanks for coming in once again. We spoke with you last week. This is happening. You - you - you're very concerned about what's happening in the airspace over New Jersey, among many - among many people. What do you - what's your reaction to hearing from the White House? John Kirby saying we're following up on all the tips. He thinks what this is really showing is, just, as he puts it, the huge ecosystem of drones that are in the air these days.

PAUL KANITRA (R), NEW JERSEY STATE ASSEMBLY: Well, it's concerning because it still appears like the federal government isn't on the same page, because while Kirby is saying this on one side of the equation, Mayorkas, on the other side of the equation, over the last couple of days, has confirmed that there have been 100 drone sightings that don't correlate to any known flight paths or flight pattern, and that they're sending additional resources, equipment and personnel to two different military facilities in New Jersey.

So, they wouldn't be doing that if they weren't still concerned. And obviously, the FBI is looking into those 100 sightings as well.

BOLDUAN: And maybe they're all saying a little bit of the same, though, because we did hear from John Kirby as well, he said out of - they have 5,000 tips that have come in that they've followed up on, and they do say they still are checking out about 100 of them. So, maybe that is kind of in all - all saying the same thing. They've got 100 they're still checking out. Still, they say, none of them appear to be illegal activity. None of them appear to be a threat to public safety.

Does that help to calm your concerns?

KANITRA: Well, considering my district is basically ground zero, it does calm concerns a little bit because you certainly don't want the general public taking anything into their own hands. So, it's nice to know that finally, after a couple of weeks of this, the federal government is starting to deploy more resources, that we're seeing Governor Murphy, Governor Hochul in New York, Senator Schumer, politicians on both sides of the equation starting to call for more action. And I think they're going to get to the bottom of it. And, quite frankly, President-elect Trump's comments the other day seem to indicate that there is some knowledge of what's going on, especially with President Biden and the White House.

BOLDUAN: So, do you think that they're - that - the suggestion from the president-elect seemed to be that the government's hiding something. Do you think that the government's hiding something?

KANITRA: Look, we - we have no way of knowing what the governments motivations are. If it's top secret, they have every right and every reason to hide something as well. President Trump didn't seem overly concerned in his comments. He said

he wasn't sure why President Biden wouldn't be telling the American people if it was an imminent threat. President Trump kind of wears his emotions on his sleeve. I thought he would have told that a little bit in how he was saying that. So, I don't think that there's any kind of imminent threat.

BOLDUAN: How do you think - how do you think this ends in terms of calming it down? If it ends up being in these - these additional hundred check out and they are hobbyists, what have you - they're not nefarious. Let's just put it into the really bad actors or just people screwing around. I'm generalizing.

KANITRA: Right.

BOLDUAN: If it ends up being this - there's just a lot more drones that people are going to see in the air, including at night, and they might - and it might not be something they're comfortable with, but this is the reality. How - how does this end? How do you calm your constituents?

KANITRA: Two main things, right? The government is going to need to explain, why are some of them so large? What's a fact is our state police put aircraft up and confirmed they were over one that was six feet large. Our residents have spotted many that are about the size of small SUVs. That needs to be explained, and the swarms need to be explained.

Our Ocean County Sheriff's Department confirmed swarms coming in most nights.

[09:20:00]

And we're talking 50 drones in a swarm. That doesn't seem like a hobbyist activity.

So, I think if the federal government wants to calm everything down, they're going to need to explain why some of these anomalies are out there, because the general public, even though there's a little bit of a state of hysteria, it's rooted in the fact that some of these things are very abnormal. It's not a small hobbyist drone.

BOLDUAN: Interesting.

Thank you so much for coming in. Appreciate your time.

KANITRA: Of course. Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SIDNER: All right, Ukraine is claiming responsibility for blowing up a Russian general near the heart of the Russian capital. Just in, the Russians are now responding.

And the deadline is looming. Will TikTok be banned or not in the U.S.? Details on Trump's meeting with the CEO of the popular social media app, just after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:25:19]

BERMAN: All right, we do have breaking news. President-elect Trump has sued "The Des Moines Register" and its retiring star pollster Ann Selzer over a poll that had Vice President Harris ahead of him in Iowa. Trump ultimately did win Iowa. The suit argues the poll constituted election interference. At his news conference, Trump telegraphed this was coming.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to expand on the defamation lawsuits. Could you see moving that to other people with individual platforms, social media influencers, people that -

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENT-ELECT: Or newspapers, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TRUMP: Yes. Oh, I do. I do. I think you have to do it because they're very dishonest.

I'm going to be bringing one against the people in Iowa, their newspaper, which had a very, very good pollster who got me right all the time. And then, just before the election, she said I was going to lose by 3 or 4 points.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, CNN's Brian Stelter is with us now.

Brian, you were part of the team that broke this story, along with Paula Reid and Katelyn Polantz.

First of all, tell us what this suit is. This is not exactly a defamation suit.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: No. Unlike a lot of the lawsuits Trump has filed in the past, usually unsuccessfully against news outlets, this is not a defamation suit. This is a case in Iowa that relies on a pretty dramatic or aggressive interpretation of the Iowa Consumer Fraud Act. That's a law that prohibits deception when advertising or selling merchandise. So, you can imagine Trump's legal team here looking for a law in Iowa they can use to sue Ann Selzer and "The Des Moines Register" and its parent company, Gannett. And they've landed on this consumer fraud protection law. They're basically arguing that the poll was an example of fraud, that it was, quote, election interference fiction.

Now, as you said, John, Ann Selzer has a sterling reputation, or at least she did until this year. Her pre-election poll was wildly wrong, and she has acknowledged so. She went through the data last month trying to figure out what went wrong, and she came to the conclusion that she did her job the best she could and the poll was off for a variety of obscure reasons that just chalked up to the reality of the difficulty of polling. In other words, she's saying she reported the facts the best she could.

But Trump is saying this poll was fiction. It distorted the final days of the election. This seems like a legal long shot. But oftentimes when Trump files suit, the goal is not necessarily to win, it's to make his opponent suffer. And this might be one of those cases, John.

BERMAN: Yes, look, polls miss sometimes. I mean that's why there's always a margin of error.

STELTER: Right.

BERMAN: This was way out of the margin of error. But polls miss sometimes.

You talk about how sometimes Trump does this to cause pain. There may be an even bigger strategy here, which Trump, frankly, alluded to at this news conference as he heads into this new administration.

STELTER: Yes, he's talking about straightening out the press. That's a euphemism for trying to tone down any and all negative or critical coverage. We know that he spent his first term in office deriding so- called fake news, trying to label real news as fake. Now he's taking actions, not just using his words, but taking actions. And I don't think it's a coincidence that he was able to prevail against ABC with that shocking $15 million settlement on Saturday. And then on Monday, he has his legal team filed a suit in Iowa. He has threatened other suits as well. And he has a number of them pending.

But let's remember that the law goes both ways. Trump is also being sued for defamation by multiple parties. This case, though, this is a rarity because it is a fraud case. We will see pretty quickly, I think, whether a judge in Iowa takes this seriously.

But the broader point, as "Puck's" Tara Palmieri wrote last night, the broader point might here be to deter polling in general, to stop pollsters from coming out with polls that make Trump look bad. He has a tremendous amount of power right now, and Trump seems intent on using it in aggressive ways he didn't use the first time around.

BERMAN: All right, Brian, thank you for being on top of all of this reporting, coming on live. Happy holidays.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thanks, John.

This morning, the woman who stowed away on a flight from New York to Paris has been arrested yet again, this time for trying to sneak across the border into Canada on a bus.

CNN's Randi Kaye is looking into the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KA YE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Busted again. This time Svetlana Dali was traveling by bus. Just last month she had stowed away on a Delta flight from JFK Airport in New York to Paris. A law enforcement source tells CNN Dali had managed to cut off her ankle monitor on Sunday and was taken into custody while on a Greyhound bus bound for Canada, multiple law enforcement told CNN.

[09:30:09]

SVETLANA DALI: (INAUDIBLE). I don't want to.