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Electors Meet In State Capitals Today; Michael Osterholm Is interviewed About RFK Jr.; Trump Meets With TikTok CEO. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired December 17, 2024 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:30:00]
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Sunday and was taken into custody while on a Greyhound bus bound for Canada, multiple law enforcement told CNN.
SVETLANA DALI: (INAUDIBLE). I don't want to go (INAUDIBLE).
KAYE (voice over): That was Dali last month, the first time authorities tried to return the 57-year-old Russian national and a U.S. permanent resident to the United States from Paris.
DALI: (INAUDIBLE).
KAYE (voice over): She created such a disturbance, Delta kicked her off the New York bound flight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I saw was basically this lady that was progressively getting more and more irate and raising her voice louder and louder.
KAYE (voice over): Earlier this month, another attempt to bring her back to the United States was successful. Dali sat in the back of the aircraft and was flanked by two French security officials the entire flight to JFK. A week and a half ago, Dali was charged in federal court with one count of being a stowaway on a vessel or aircraft without consent. Among other things, the judge ordered Dali to wear an ankle bracelet with a GPS monitor, surrender any travel documents, and told her she cannot go to airports or leave the area where she is staying. That includes, of course, jumping on a Greyhound bus to Canada.
Dali had been staying with a roommate. A law enforcement source told CNN, her roommate reported her missing after he saw her GPS ankle bracelet on the floor.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Palm Beach County, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also today, 13 Republican electors who were once tied to the 2020 fake electors plot, well, they are now casting legitimate ballots. And it's a funny twist, I guess, on "Ratatouille," the movie, not the dish. That adorable rat could cook. Now we have rats who can drive. But why?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:36:25]
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Today, hundreds of electors will gather in state capitals across the United States to officially confirm Donald Trump's win in the 2024 election. The Electoral College consists of 538 electors. You know this. And a majority of 270 is needed to become president. Among the electors casting their votes for President-elect Trump today are 13 Republicans who participated in the 2020 fake elector plot.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny joins us now.
How the political winds have shifted. What now happens today?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, good morning.
It has been 42 days since that presidential election on November 5th. And Donald Trump, of course, is well on his way to building his new administration. He's sworn in, in just 34 days. However, it is one step closer to becoming official today.
As you said, in state capitals across the country, electors, slates of electors are meeting today to essentially cast the votes that actually matter. Yes, 150 million Americans voted back on Election Day, but this is how America elects presidents, by the Electoral College.
So, we are going to see state by state by state sort of a go down as the day goes along here to essentially ratify the outcome of November 5th.
And you mentioned those fake electors. I mean, certainly a brighter light was shined on the process of how presidents are elected four years ago when Donald Trump refused to accept his defeat. So, there were slates of fake electors in some states. Well, they are real electors this afternoon in several states. And we are seeing Maryland, I believe is right there. That is the - where the process is beginning today. And as the day goes along, state by state we'll do these.
But it is largely a ceremonial. But we saw four years ago it wouldn't have to be. But one big difference, Kamala Harris is accepting her defeat this time.
SIDNER: Yes. And that also has to happen shortly after, correct?
ZELENY: Sure.
And one other thing that's going to be interesting, Sara, I mean, in history we've only seen this a couple times. She will actually be - once these electors happen across the state, in state capitals, they're sent here to Washington. And then, of course, on January 6th, as we well remember from a four years ago, this actually becomes official in Congress. But she will be presiding over this role of accepting her defeat. We, of course, remember that from Al Gore doing this back when he lost
to George W. Bush. But there have been some law changes. So, even if she wanted to, she could not overturn the outcome there. That change from four years ago.
But look, she will be sitting in the chair as president of the Senate in the waning days of her time in office, presiding over her defeat. That's what a peaceful transition of power is intended to look like.
SIDNER: That's what it looks like.
Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much for your reporting.
Over to you, Kate.
ZELENY: Sure.
BOLDUAN: Thank you, Sara.
President-elect Donald Trump is working right now to tamp down some of the controversy surrounding his pick to be health secretary. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has a long history of pushing debunked conspiracy theories, especially surrounding vaccines, including the false claim that vaccines are linked to childhood autism. And that is something that Kennedy did not want to talk about as he made the rounds on Capitol Hill yesterday to try and secure support for his nomination.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe in the polio vaccine?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Should the polio vaccine be revoked?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) American were worried you're going to take away their vaccine, Mr. Kennedy.
[09:40:00]
RAJU: Should - should the polio vaccine be revoked?
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS NOMINEE: I'm all for the polio vaccine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, do you stand by your previous comments about vaccines being linked to autism? Do you stand by those comments, sir?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: At a news conference last night, the president-elect was asked about RFK's views, and Trump said he wants RFK to look into whether there is a link between autism and vaccines.
Joining me right now is Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.
It's good to see you again. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR CIDRAP AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA:
Hey, Kate.
BOLDUAN: So, Donald Trump said this about RFK. There was a lot. We'll go through all of it. But starting here. Donald Trump said this, "I think he's going to be much less radical than you would think." You've called it both head scratching and outrageous that RFK Jr.'s up for this job.
Explain.
OSTERHOLM: Well, you know, when Michelangelo once said, when someone tells you who they are, believe them. I wish I could say that about RFK Jr. We don't know who he is because he says so many different things to so many different people, and even denies saying things on recorded interviews. And so, one of the challenges we have is, whatever he says now, I have no belief that that's necessarily how he's going to practice as a secretary when he's actually in the position.
In addition to that right now, as has been noted by a number of media sources, the people who are doing the vetting for the senior jobs right now at the Department of Health and Human Services, are many of the anti-vaccine people, including Mr. Siri, the individual who petitioned to have the polio vaccine removed.
So, I think we have to look not just at his words, but what he likely will do in spite of his words and also all those he's bringing into the fold to help him mold the leadership at HHS.
BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean he definitely has said, just on its face, when he says, I'm all for the polio vaccine, he also has said recently that there is no such thing as a safe and effective vaccine, just - just as one very small example.
In saying that - that he is all for the polio vaccine, that's saying one thing. According to one of the senators that he met with yesterday, he said that RFK is not anti-vax, but that he wants transparency around vaccines.
Michael, does that not already exist? What's he getting at with that?
OSTERHOLM: Well, that's another one of the questions we have. We don't know what he means by saying that. The vaccines that we have today in this country are studied extensively before they're brought to market. They - we look carefully at safety, how effective they are, and even to the extent that he has noted that the polio vaccine never had a study done where some people got the vaccine, some didn't, to see how the impact of that vaccine would be on polio, we do that kind of study very similar to how we do cancer drugs. We don't tell people to stop their cancer drugs to test it against another one. What we do is we build both of them on the back of the individual who's being treated and so that in fact we can say, well, with this drug you even did better.
With the polio vaccine we actually did do studies where we looked at the newer vaccines versus the older vaccines at the same time. So, these studies are there. And for him to continue to say they're not confuses the public. It's not truthful. And it surely is, I think, the reason why in a few years we could expect to see in this country many additional deaths in children because of the fear that parents have, that RFK Jr. is putting in their minds.
BOLDUAN: And stoking fear and creating kind of a space to allow that fear to fester. That's a big question, because that can have real impact, especially when you're talking about this false claim that he has pushed for a long time of linking childhood autism to vaccines.
Donald Trump, just yesterday, was asked about it. Very specifically, Michael, do you think there is a connection between vaccines and autism? Do you think there's a link? And Trump said, "right now you have some very brilliant people looking at it."
If that takes hold and Trump and RFK put resources to that and or move to pull back on childhood vaccine programs, pull back on mandatory school vaccine programs, what's the impact of that rhetoric?
OSTERHOLM: Well, first of all, let's just be really clear, there are no major studies going on right now looking at autism and vaccines because we've done these studies.
BOLDUAN: Right.
OSTERHOLM: These studies have been exhaustive in nature. And so there is no further evidence. We don't need to have another experiment to see what will happen when the apple falls from the tree, where it will go. We kind of know that already.
Well, we know the same thing about the vaccines. But what happens is by casting this doubt on them, if I'm a new parent and I'm sitting here wanting to make sure that this is as safe as possible situation for my child, I'll say, well, maybe I'll hold off the vaccine because it sounds like maybe there's a problem with it. That's exactly how we're going to see more and more kids not vaccinated, and more and more kids becoming ill.
Don't forget, measles on average kills one out of every thousand kids that get infected with it. It won't take long where we see a reduced vaccination level in this country before we're going to be counting the outcome of this debate in children's deaths, not in rhetoric.
BOLDUAN: Is there one question you would like to hear these senators ask in vetting him?
[09:45:08]
OSTERHOLM: You know, I think the challenges I pointed out at the beginning of the interview, Kate, is the fact that I don't believe anything he says because he changes everything that he has said many times over to just match up with what people want to hear. And so, if I thought that he was truthful and I thought that the question I could ask him is - he would follow through on, as you would expect, then I think I could ask a question. I don't think I can ask him a question, because I don't believe him.
BOLDUAN: That's scary.
Michael Osterholm, thank you for coming on.
John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, quote, this is the beginning of the end of this shameful money grab. Why the lawyer for Jay-z is confident he can exonerate his client of the rape allegations against him.
And then chicken nuggets marinated in jalapeno buttermilk, then crushed in tortilla chips. Unclear why this is news, but I expect an explanation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:50:30]
BERMAN: Developing this morning, a senior Russian general accused of ordering chemical weapons attacks in Ukraine has been killed by a bomb hidden in an electric scooter in Moscow. Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov was the chief of Russia's radiological, biological and chemical protection forces. Russia is calling his death a terrorist act. Video shows him walking out of a building moments before the blast with an assistant who was also killed. The source tells CNN Ukraine's security service was behind the attack, which happened just four miles from the Kremlin.
An attorney for Jay-z calls the sexual assault allegation against him a fantasy. A woman who was identified as Jane Doe alleges Jay-z, along with Sean Combs, assaulted her back in 2000 when she was 13. Jay-z's attorney showed photographs placing him at a Manhattan venue the night in question. And the lawyer says the accuser's story is not plausible because of the time it would take for him to go from that venue to the suburbs, where the accuser said she was assaulted. She recently admitted to her - some inconsistencies in her account, but her attorney insists his firm thoroughly vetted her claims. Jay-z's legal team has now sued the woman's attorney, accusing him of trying to shake down innocent celebrities.
All right, this morning, a new frontier for rats. Researchers at the University of Richmond train them to drive little cars. And apparently they liked doing it. They would give the rats the option to walk or drive to a pile of Fruit Loops. And, obviously, the rats chose to drive. Next, they may try to see whether the rats like to race each other. I can tell you right now, the answer is yes.
All right, we have important chicken nugget news this morning. A brand-new option, apparently, at Taco Bell this week. I'm not 100 percent sure why this is news. Is there controversy over this? If there's not, I'm sure there will be. We need controversy over chicken nuggets. These ones are marinated in jalapeno buttermilk and coated in tortilla chips and breadcrumbs. The chain says it's part of an effort to appeal to a younger audience that likes breadcrumbs. No, that chooses, apparently, chicken over red meat. And I guess the red meat nuggets was something they weren't going to do anyway.
Sara.
SIDNER: They don't sound as tasty. But you know what, those - those rats would probably drive their car to get one of those.
BERMAN: They're going to drive right to it.
SIDNER: Just so you know. All the rats in New York celebrating now because they might be able to drive.
All right, TikTok could be banned here in the U.S. on January 19th, just a day before Donald Trump back - goes back to the White House. But the president-elect is suggesting that may not happen, throwing the social media platform a lifeline.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENT-ELECT: We'll take a look at TikTok. You know, I have a warm spot in my heart for TikTok because I won youth by 34 points. And there are those that say that TikTok has something to do with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: All right, Trump met with TikTok's CEO at Mar-a-Lago yesterday after making those comments. TikTok wants the Supreme Court to block the new law requiring the platform be sold by its Chinese owner or get kicked off cell phones in the U.S..
CNN's Clare Duffy is here.
This is an interesting turn of events. Like so many things politically. I remember, I'm old enough, and so are you to remember when Donald Trump did not like TikTok.
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: He started this whole thing.
SIDNER: Wanted to - yes, wanted to ban it. Wanted to kick it off. On the campaign trail this time around, though, he opposed a ban. So, what's happening now? What's - what's going to happen? And is it possible that Donald Trump, because this deadline is coming up before he goes into office, could stop that from happening?
DUFFY: Yes, it's not clear that he's going to be able to do anything to stop TikTok from being banned. But experts told me that he has essentially for possible approaches here. First, he could ask Congress to repeal the law, but that's unlikely because it's kind of embarrassing to repeal a law that you passed less than a year ago. And there are still many in Congress who are concerned about China.
Second, he could direct his attorney general not to enforce the law, essentially signal to app stores like Apple and Google, who are really the ones on the hook to remove TikTok, that they won't face fines for continuing to host the app. But again, it's not clear that those companies are going to want to break the law, even with that reassurance.
The third option is the most wonky, but experts say it is actually the most likely. Trump could take advantage of this kind of loophole in the law that gives the president the power to determine if a qualified divestiture, essentially a sale of TikTok, has taken place. And experts told me that he could say it has, even if that's not actually true, and it would be really tricky to challenge in court.
[09:55:00]
And then, of course, Trump could try to facilitate a sale. He could find one of his billionaire buddies, these companies that are trying to cozy up to him, and convince them to buy the platform. This is a platform that has 170 million American users, is really popular, but it's not clear that he's going to be able to convince Bytedance and China that they should sell the app.
SIDNER: I was going to say, it turns out that John and Kate were doing a TikTok dance behind me over there.
BERMAN: We're trying to walk around the set and we can't. Like, there's no actual, viable route.
BOLDUAN: Maybe we should finally show people how hard it is.
SIDNER: Oh, that's the explanation, is it?
BOLDUAN: I think it's - I think we should finally show how hard it is to actually get into position sometimes.
BERMAN: And what it - I might have -
SIDNER: Show us. Show us.
BOLDUAN: And it involves John basically going like this.
BERMAN: Yes.
BOLDUAN: Right through everyone's camera to get to his position.
SIDNER: And when has that ever stopped him? Let's be honest.
BOLDUAN: This is true. Key to success.
SIDNER: (INAUDIBLE).
BERMAN: I'm being bullied.
SIDNER: Clare, I am so sorry you were a part of this clown show this morning.
BOLDUAN: This always happens when Clare comes on. I think Clare is the instigator.
DUFFY: I'm the instigator. Yes, of course.
BOLDUAN: That is - you're wild.
SIDNER: Put that on TikTok.
Clare Duffy, thank you so much for your reporting on this.
DUFFY: Thank you.
SIDNER: Really interesting.
BERMAN: Why can't you just be grateful we made it to the set?
SIDNER: I'm very happy you're here. I am.
BERMAN: OK. Thank you very much.
SIDNER: Both of you. Truly.
BOLDUAN: Get out. (INAUDIBLE) honestly.
SIDNER: Is this my lying face?
BOLDUAN: Think about - that's your lying face again.
Thank you so much for joining us. We must go now.
"CNN NEWSROOM" is up next.
It was your lying face again.
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