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RFK's Lawyer Asks FDA To Revoke Approval Of Polio Vaccine; Son of Polio Vaccine Creator Speaks On Vaccine Debate; Ukraine Takes Credit For Scooter Bomb That Killed Top Russian General; Jury Finds Tech Consultant Guilty In Killing Of Cash App Founder. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired December 17, 2024 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[13:30:20]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Now to the mixed messages on the inoculation that stopped more than 15,000 cases of paralysis a year in the 1950s, according to CDC estimates.

We're talking about the polio vaccine, which President-Elect Trump has praised as the, quote, "greatest thing."

His pick for Health and Human Services secretary, Robert Kennedy Jr, a longtime vaccine skeptic, is back up on Capitol Hill today trying to shore up support for his confirmation.

And yesterday, he echoed Trump's approval for the polio vaccine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: You're not going to lose the -- the polio vaccine. That's not going to happen. I saw what happened with the polio. I have friends that were very much affected by that.

I have friends, from many years ago, and they have obviously -- they -- they're still in not such good shape because of it. You know, that was -- and many people died. And the moment they took that vaccine, it ended.

Dr. Jonas Salk did a great job.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Should the polio vaccine be revoked? You're going to take away their vaccine? Should the -- should the polio vaccine be revoked?

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR, NOMINEE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: (INADUBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Kennedy saying there that he was, quote, "all for the polio vaccine." But his lawyer and his top ally, Aaron Siri, recently petitioned the

FDA to pull its approval of the vaccine in 2022.

And while President-Elect Trump seemed all in on the polio vaccine, listen closely to what else he said about vaccines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you believe there's a connection between vaccines and autism? Do you believe there's a link?

TRUMP: Well, I don't -- look, right now, you have some very brilliant people looking at it.

If you look at autism, so 30 years ago we had -- I've heard numbers of like one in 200,000, one in 100,000. And now I'm hearing numbers of one in 100. So somethings wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think schools should mandate vaccines?

TRUMP: I don't like mandates. I'm not a big mandate person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining us now is Dr. Peter Salk, whose father you heard the president-elect mention, Jonas Salk, he invented the initial polio vaccine.

Dr. Salk is also the president of the Jonas Salk Legacy Foundation. He's a professor of infectious diseases and microbiology at the University of Pittsburgh School of Public Health.

Doctor, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today. It's such a critical time.

What are your thoughts as you're hearing what the president-elect and RFK Jr are saying about praising the polio vaccine, but also what they're saying about and have said about vaccines more broadly?

DR. PETER L. SALK, PRESIDENT, JONAS SALK LEGACY FOUNDATION & PROFESSOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES & MICROBIOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF PITTSBURGH SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes. I'm so relieved to hear that both the president and RFK Jr are being supportive of the polio vaccine.

It has done such a wonderful job, along with the other vaccine that came along afterwards. in ridding the world almost completely from polio at this point.

The injected vaccine that my father and his team at the University of Pittsburgh developed is extremely safe. Very rarely would someone have an allergic reaction to it.

So this, I think, is absolutely the correct decision. What their concern was, was that more -- in more recent years, an enhanced potency version of that vaccine was made and that's just more effective. Their -- I think their concern was perhaps it was more dangerous, but there's been no evidence of that.

KEILAR: How effective would your father's vaccine, the polio vaccine be if it we're not mandated?

SALK: Well, anyone who is immunized with that vaccine, almost every single person will end up being protected themselves against developing polio because it blocks the ability of the virus to travel to the brain and the spinal cord and cause paralysis.

But there's also an issue of spreading virus from one person to another, who have not been immunized. The more people that are immunized, the better the protection will be against other people getting infected.

Now, in this country, at this point, there's -- there's very little likelihood of polio, the polio virus being transmitted. In 2022, a case was brought over from -- from overseas and -- and into a community where the polio vaccination rates were much lower than -- than they should be.

[13:35:03]

I would urge everyone to have their children vaccinated, not only against the polio, but also against the other diseases of childhood and other diseases that cause them to be at risk of -- of damage in their own lives, not only for themselves, for yourself, of course, but also to help protect others around you.

KEILAR: What do you say to parents, to families out there who are concerned that there is a link between vaccines and autism, which has been disproven, but certainly has been perpetuated by some high- profile names, including the potential incoming HHS secretary?

What do you say to families as they're weighing what they may think are risks to these vaccines that don't exist with the benefits?

SALK: Yes, in the case of autism, it's absolutely clear from the studies that have been done that vaccines are not a cause of autism. Autism begins in the womb before a child is ever immunized against anything.

It's -- so this is just -- what happens is that people receive vaccines during childhood and then, at some point, if a child is predestined to get autism, it will come at some point in relationship to anything that would happen before that, including a vaccine that might accidentally be close to it.

There's not a cause-and-effect relationship. One can relax about that. But what I would say is this. In medications, including vaccines, can have side effects of one sort or another.

What's important is to study them carefully and to be -- and to understand what the circumstances are. If there are concerns about one thing or another, we can take autism off of the list. But if there are concerns, then people should get together and address

the issues as concisely as possible. Have studies done. Studies have been done that -- already.

So if people are concerned, we have to respect that concern. But I can say as far as autism is concerned, that is just not something that one has to worry about with respect to vaccines.

KEILAR: It's important to hear that from you.

I think it's so interesting for people to know, and they likely do not, that you were among the first to get the polio vaccination. Your father gave it to you, along with your siblings, which speaks to the confidence that he had in it and just how important he thought it was for you guys to have that.

Can -- can you tell us what you remember about that moment, what your siblings remembered about that moment and, you know, what you think your father would make of today's debate over his creation?

SALK: Yes, I remember that moment very well. My father brought the experimental vaccine home, boiled those needles and syringes on the stove to sterilize them, lined us up.

And the reason I remember that day so clearly is because I hated vaccines. I hated -- I mean, I hated needles. And for some blessed reason, the needle just did not hurt that day, which was just a -- seared that moment into my memory.

And the other question you asked?

KEILAR: What he would think of sort of the debate, especially considering how people would have welcomed this chance to be free of polio during his time.

SALK: Oh, yes. Listen, the -- the country, the world was terrified of polio. There were -- epidemics were getting worse and worse. Children were being paralyzed. Many, many put in iron lungs, not being able to breathe. Many died.

This was something that everyone was terrified about. The National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis, created by Franklin Roosevelt with a fundraising arm, the March of Dimes, raised the money for all of the studies to create vaccines against polio and to help care for -- for patients.

People -- it was the people of this country who, one by one, dime by dime, dollar by dollar, provided the funds for the research program that created the polio -- the polio vaccine.

This was not, at that point, government funded. This was the people, and it was the people's victory over this disease. So everyone was behind it. And when the vaccine was found to be effective in a huge national field trial, a wave of relief swept the country.

Nowadays, we're just not faced with polio, certainly and other childhood illnesses. And that, because of vaccines.

And so parents aren't used to thinking, oh, we're seeing all of this disease around us. But it's very important to keep up immunization to protect your children in the future and to protect the -- and to protect the community.

[13:40:06]

So that's what I would have to say is -- is get on board with vaccines. They're really important. They've saved countless numbers of lives. This is something that we want to continue into the future.

KEILAR: Yes, hard to imagine the world without them.

Dr. Salk, we appreciate your time. Thank you so much for being with us today.

SALK: Brianna, thank you. It's a pleasure talking to you.

KEILAR: And ahead, a top Russian general killed in Moscow after a bomb attached to a scooter exploded. We'll have details on the attack and how Russia is responding next.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Some newly obtained video shows the moments leading up to a deadly explosion that killed a top Russian general today in Moscow. A source tells us that one of the men you're about to see is, in fact, Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov.

[13:45:07]

And we can't show you the blast itself because it's too graphic. But here is part of the footage.

(VIDEO)

KEILAR: Russian officials say the general and his assistant we're killed when a remotely detonated bomb planted in an electric -- electronic scooter, which you may have noticed standing there next to that door, went off.

Kyiv has claimed responsibility. Ukraine has claimed responsibility here. Kirillov was wanted by Ukraine for using chemical weapons. Russian officials are calling his killing a, quote, "terrorist act."

SANCHEZ: Let's discuss with retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

General Hertling, thank you so much for being with us.

Obviously, this explosion, a very ambitious and well-planned targeted attack. I wonder what the strategy was behind Ukraine targeting this specific Russian official.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, this isn't the first, Boris, as you know, and some of the reporting CNN has put out has showed that there have been multiple attempts at killing high- ranking Russian officials.

On this particular one, it was a very good targeting approach because this individual is in charge of what's called the NBC capability of Russia nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.

Russia has used chemical weapons inside of Ukraine. They've used a type of what's called C.S. gas or -- or chlorine-type of gas to -- to basically affect soldiers on the front line.

And that's in violation of both the Geneva Convention and the Law of Land Warfare.

So in-absentia, the courts in Ukraine has held this individual, Colonel, General Kirillov, a three-star general, as a war criminal.

So this was a targeted attack on him to kill him. But it's also important that it's been done on the streets of Moscow. Some of -- some of the targets that have been conducted have been close to the city center.

So you're seeing, you know, basically a psychological approach to tell Russian soldiers, Russian generals, there is no safe for you -- safe place for you, excuse me.

If you're not on the front line, we're still going to come after you. And this is a valid target under the laws of land warfare.

KEILAR: What's also significant here is that a source quickly told CNN that Ukraine's security services were behind the assassination. What do you make of the speed with which Ukraine claimed responsibility here?

HERTLING: Well, they want to, Brianna -- and again, it gets to the psychological effects of something like this. "We are everywhere in Russia." That's the message Ukraine is saying.

They've struck targets with drones, with some unmanned aircraft. A variety of unmanned naval vehicles have struck the Black and the and the Baltic Sea fleets.

So you're talking about that this -- Ukraine is sending the message that if you're going to strike our infrastructure inside of Ukraine, we're going to come after you, too.

And again, I'll repeat it, there is no safe place for the Russians who are commanding this illegal invasion of Ukraine.

SANCHEZ: What do you anticipate the Russian response to this is going to be?

HERTLING: Well, you know, Boris, in the past, what they have done is amped up the number of drones and missile attacks inside of Ukraine against various infrastructure, targets hospitals, schools, energy sources.

I think we'll see some more of that. I'm not sure how much more they could do. There we're a couple of days last week where there were between 200 and 300 kinetic projectiles launched inside of Ukraine against civilian targets.

So once more, it's -- it's the illegality of what Russia is doing as war crimes against the country and the citizens of Ukraine, avoiding the military aspect of what's going on.

So Ukraine is fighting back by saying, we're going to come into Russia and strike military targets and leave your infrastructure alone.

But they're -- they're going after the same kind of things that Russia is doing in Ukraine, except making it more adamant and more psychological to hit a couple of hundred miles from the front line between Russia and Ukraine.

So they're taking the fight deep into Russian territory to strike some of the key Russian targets.

SANCHEZ: Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, appreciate the analysis. Thanks so much for joining us.

HERTLING: Thanks, guys.

[13:49:34]

SANCHEZ: Still to come, we have the verdict for the man accused of killing the founder of Cash App, Bob Lee. Details straight ahead.

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KEILAR: New today, a jury has found a tech consultant guilty of second-degree murder in the stabbing death of Cash App founder, Bob Lee.

SANCHEZ: Yes. Let's bring in CNN's Stephanie Elam.

Stephanie, what are you learning?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Boris and Brianna, what we have found out here is that the man who prosecutors say was the reason why Bob Lee died has now received second-degree murder charges.

They could have come back with first-degree, but they did not in this case, which found Nima Momeni responsible for the death of Bob Lee.

Now, remember, this happened back in the beginning of April 2023, when they say that there was a dispute between the two men when Momeni took, according to the prosecutors here -- took him, Bob Lee, to the -- underneath the Bay Bridge and stabbed him three times.

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Bob Lee was found staggering down an isolated street, dripping a trail of blood, and later died at the hospital here.

When you take a listen to the family members of Bob Lee, they say they are happy with the outcome, even though it was very concerning as they heard that the first-degree murder charge was not found for Moini.

Take a listen to what the family had to say here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIMOTHY OLIVER LEE, VICTIM'S BROTHER: It's been a very, very crazy ordeal. It's been so hard to be able to live through all of this. And we're -- we're -- we're pleased that we're able to move past this part of this chapter in our life.

There's still more of the book to -- to go on, but we're -- we're pleased with the verdict today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you have any --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: And he also went on to say that this is the best of all worst outcomes here.

Now, the defense had argued that Bob Lee was in a drug-induced haze and that Momeni, he was actually protecting himself.

But obviously, when you look at the outcome here, after a very long trial and seven days of deliberation, the jury has found second-degree murder charges are in line for Momeni -- Brianna and Boris?

KEILAR: Stephanie Elam, thank you for that update.

And stay with us. We are standing by for an update out of Madison, Wisconsin, where officials, as you see here, are about to speak about Monday's deadly school shooting there. We're going to bring that to you live when it happens.

Stay with CNN.

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