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Luigi Mangione, Man Accused of Killing UnitedHealthcare CEO, Likely to Waive His Right to Fight Extradition from Pennsylvania to New York; Prosecutors in New Year Charge Luigi Mangione with First- Degree Murder and Terrorism. Government Shutdown Looms After Trump Bipartisan Fund; Shooter Brought Two Guns to School, was in Contact with California Man. Aired 8-8:30a ET.

Aired December 19, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: -- exactly how Trump's Ukraine policy will play out, even as we know they have welcomes some of the commentary coming from the president-elect, including comments over the weekend that he thought it was a mistake to give Ukraine permission to use ATACMS missiles on Russian.

We also heard from Putin that he's willing to compromise, he said, on Ukraine, but he didn't say how. So not a lot coming out, but a lot of projections of strength from Putin, again, I think a reflection of that uncertainty. John?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Clare Sebastian, thank you very much.

We got a lot of developing stories we're watching. A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Just moments ago, Luigi Mangione arrived at a Pennsylvania courthouse where he has back-to-back hearings this morning. New York prosecutors eager for the judge to clear the way to extradite him back to New York to face first-degree murder charges in the killing of the UnitedHealthcare CEO. We will take you there live.

Plus, tis the season of giving, and Trump just handed Republicans a slap, handing them back their government funding deal. We'll have the latest on where negotiations stand before Friday's midnight deadline.

And officials are all abuzz after announcing the dreaded murder hornets are wiped out of the U.S.

I'm Sara Sidner with John Berman and Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BERMAN: All right, happening now, we've got our eyes on Pennsylvania because just a few minutes ago, accused CEO killer Luigi Mangione arrived in court there. He's got back-to-back hearings. Interesting, he walked in there without incident. Very different than last time when there was that outburst. It was a much more subdued Mangione walking in this time. He is expected to waive his right to extradition, meaning as soon as next hour he could be on his way here to New York City.

Let's get right to Danny Freeman, who is in line outside the court waiting to go in to watch these hearings. Bring us up to speed, Danny.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you bet, John. Well, first, I'll let you know that news. And you saw that tape. You just played it. Luigi Mangione has arrived here at the Blair County courthouse for these two hearings. First, that one on those Pennsylvania charges and then that all important extradition hearing to follow. And I'll just spend a little bit of time with that video. I know it's a short clip right there, John, but you see, Luigi Mangione again being escorted into the courthouse in an orange jumpsuit, once again, clean shaven, notably, in contrast to the last time we saw him outside of the courthouse. And like you also noted, John, no large outbursts, unlike the last time we saw him in the back of this courthouse just a week ago.

Now, when it comes to what we're expecting to see first out here and then inside, I'll just tell you, John, a ton of media presence out here, a ton of law enforcement presence out here as well. A lot of the roads are closed off in this area of the courthouse. And there's also a lot of people just out here holding signs, a lot of "Free Luigi" type aspects. So this is clearly a lot more attention perhaps, than this little street in Hollidaysburg normally gets on an average Thursday morning.

But let's talk about what we're going to see inside of the courtroom in, like you said, just a matter of minutes. There are two hearings this morning. The first one coming up at 8:30. Like I said, that's a preliminary hearing for the Pennsylvania charges. To remind the audience, those are two felonies, including a gun charge and then three misdemeanors. Those stem from when Mangione was picked up at that Altoona McDonald's, not too far from where we're standing right now.

But then there's that bigger extradition hearing coming up around 9:00 a.m., likely just following immediately after the preliminary hearing is finished. That hearing is still on as of now. But Mangione's new defense attorney told CNN's Kara Scannell that Mangione is not expected to fight extradition. So, as you noted, John, that means he could be on his way back to New York as early as potentially this morning or potentially this afternoon as well.

Meanwhile, John, I want to just update your viewers on a few of the things that we learned when it comes to the interaction the outside world has tried to have with Mangione since he's been behind bars here in Pennsylvania. We reported to you yesterday that he had received a few dozen emails, six letters. Well, I got a new update from the Department of Corrections yesterday afternoon. And we learned that as of yesterday afternoon, he's received 40 emails and 53 pieces of mail since he'd been behind bars. He also has 158 deposits into his prison commissary that has been available to him. But notably John, he has not had any visitors except for his attorneys. That's at least as of last evening. [08:05:00]

But what's interesting, John, is that we did learn last night, again, from CNN's Kara Scannell, that the Mangione family, they're actually the ones who hired that high-powered defense attorney who is planning on representing him when it comes to those, again, more serious New York charges. So a lot of interesting dynamics at play here. Clearly, a lot of attention on this case outside of this courthouse today. But the main thing, John, is that in maybe an hour, maybe a little bit more, this particular chapter of the Mangione case here in Pennsylvania may be coming to a close. John?

BERMAN: The next one just beginning. Again, a lot of developments unfolding right where you are, Danny Freeman. We'll come back to you in a little bit. Thank you very much for your reporting.

Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So joining us right now to talk more about this is CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig and CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe. Thanks, guys, for being here.

Elie, let's just first work through the extradition piece. He's not going to fight it. Legally, procedurally, what does this then kick off?

ELIE HONIG, SENIOR CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, this speeds things up significantly. What extradition means, by the way, is if a person is wanted in one state here in New York but captured in another state, Pennsylvania, it's just the process of handing that person over back to the state that wants him. He's actually charged in both states, Pennsylvania and New York. But the murder charge is in New York.

If in fact, he waives, meaning gives up his right to fight extradition, then he becomes the property, so to speak, of the New York authorities. And they can theoretically today take him out of that courthouse and drive him from Altoona to New York City. He could be here in Manhattan within -- it takes five hours to get here. He could certainly be here by the end of the business day today if things go as we expect.

BOLDUAN: And then like, logistically, Andy, when he gets here, what happens?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Sure. So he'd likely be taken to the prosecutor's office to be processed. There's certain information they need to get from him in the in the arrest process, as if he were -- as if he had been arrested today on the streets in Manhattan. There's like biographical information, things like that.

And then typically, if you're arrested in Manhattan, you're taken to a place referred to as the tombs. It's the jail intake that's in the courthouse building. So he would probably be held there for some period of time. If they expect to present him on Friday, which would be the moment of his arraignment, he might stay there overnight, or they'll take him to Rikers Island for a longer term hold until his trial, and as the proceedings go on. So he'll end up staying at Rikers Island with every other inmate in New York City that's awaiting some sort of trial or legal proceeding.

BOLDUAN: And Elie, on top of the 11-count indictment, the state charges that he's facing here in New York, we now, Kara Scannell has sources telling her that he is expected to face federal charges. And his New York attorney, Karen Friedman Agnifilo, put out a statement on this, and I'll read this for everybody again. "The federal government's reported decision to pile on top of an already overcharged first degree murder in state terror case is highly unusual and raises serious constitutional and statutory double jeopardy concerns. We are ready to fight these charges in whatever court they are brought." What would these charges likely be?

HONIG: Well, so it's an interesting development. First of all, to Karen, who we both know, of course, Karen's statement there. There's not going to be a double jeopardy concern here. I know it would seem to a normal person, well, you're charged in the state and federally for the same crime. The Supreme Court actually took this exact question on just a few years ago and said, it's OK. It's not recommended, but it's OK to have the feds and the state charge the same person with the same crime. They're separate sovereigns in the terminology.

Now, what could the federal charge be? It's important to know not every murder is federal. In fact, most murders are not federal. You need some sort of what we would call federal jurisdictional hook. And here I think that hook could be the fact that he traveled in interstate commerce, or he came into New York across state lines in order to commit this murder. So that's what I would expect. If there are federal charges, as we're hearing, I'd expect him to be that.

BOLDUAN: And Andy, there are also, there's also some talk that the state charge of first-degree murder leaning on the terrorism allegation, that it may be hard to win or may be an overreach of sorts. What do you see there in terms of the evidence that we know publicly has been gathered so far that could speak to or they would need to lean on to prove that terrorism charge?

MCCABE: So I think the state has a fair and articulable claim to this charge, even though it is a pretty extreme charge. It's the most serious murder you can be charged with in New York. And as we've said, in most cases, when it's charged, it's because there's been a murder of a first responder or police officer or something like that. But there is a provision in the charge to allow it to go forward to someone who has been accused of terrorism. Terrorism is, of course, defined as a crime or a murder, violent crime that's intended to coerce or intimidate a population.

So in this case, what the state will argue, argue is that from his own writing, the writing they seized from him when he was arrested, he indicated a desire to do this crime as sending a message to this community of parasites, as he referred to them, who the state, I'm sure would say is likely a reference to other people in the health insurance industry. [08:10:05]

He then commits the murder, and the murder has the effect, has the effect, rather, of intimidating or frightening a population, that being the corporate world that has responded to this murder and the publicity around it in a very distinct way. Corporations are desperately seeking security arrangements to protect their CEOs and other people. So there's a logical, factual pattern there to establish the terrorism charge.

On the other hand, the defense will come in and say, this is an overcharge. This is not a terrorist. The resulting fear and intimidation across corporate America was just an unforeseeable result. That was not something that he ever intended to do.

So it will certainly be a fight. But in either case, that very high charge provides a lot of room for the prosecutors to negotiate a plea bargain, because it's a charge that they could essentially walk away from in return for his, let's say, guilty plea to second-degree murder or something along those lines. So it actually gives them, I think, more freedom of movement in terms of plea negotiations.

BOLDUAN: Something he's definitely not going to have for quite some time is freedom of movement, that's for sure. And this is all starting in about 20 minutes from now at 8:30. We're going to be covering this, everything that plays out in court. And then with the extradition from there altogether. Elie is going to stick around with us and we'll have him back. Thanks, guys, really appreciate it.

Sara?

SIDNER: All right, new this morning, police in Wisconsin now investigating if the 15-year-old Madison school shooter was coordinating with a man in California accused of planning a separate attack.

And a dangerous response to the drone mystery. What airplane pilots say they're now dealing with in the skies.

And Donald Trump's billionaire buddy Elon Musk is playing a big role, apparently, in the funding bill collapse. There are 17 hours left. Can Congress still avert a government shutdown?

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[08:16:33]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: President-elect Trump and not elected Elon Musk causing chaos on Capitol Hill. The duo putting a blowtorch to a GOP spending bill that Speaker Mike Johnson had spent months putting together.

Now, House Speaker Johnson's own future as Speaker in doubt. Trump calling the bill a nasty trap organized by Democrats even though it is a Republican-led bill, and saying he wants a bill without Democrat giveaways. Outgoing Republican Senate Leader Mitch McConnell summed it all up with this comment. "Oh, this is going to be the way it's going to be next year."

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty tracking the frenzy to fund the bill on Capitol Hill this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Things are not in a good place right now up here on Capitol Hill, the spending bill is dead. Speaker Johnson has not yet revealed a Plan B, another plan and the next steps at this moment are very unclear. And all this chaos and drama up here is unfolding just one day before a potential government shutdown, Friday night at midnight into Saturday morning.

Now, leaders today they will be attempting to navigate what one lawmaker says is a big mess up here on Capitol Hill after President- elect Trump blew up the deal, really making some 11th hour demands, including tying potentially the debt limit to government funding. That is something that many lawmakers are very worried about being able to broker a deal on both those big ticket items over the next day or so.

Now, last night, leaders up here on Capitol Hill huddled late into the evening and emerged with little clarity on the path forward. Here's House Majority Leader Steve Scalise leaving that meeting.

MANU RAJU, CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How did it get so sideways with the president-elect? He came out -- and this is a deal that you guys cut and the president-elect is torpedoing this.

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): We're working with him and the vice- president to address some of the things he wants to start the presidency on a sound footing and we want him too as well. Hopefully tomorrow, we've got to see.

REPORTER: Is Elon Musk in charge now?

SCALISE: A lot of things have come up. No, President Trump is going to be the president of the United States and we're excited about it.

REPORTER: Did he join your meeting? Did he -- was he on the phone?

SERFATY: So the big question is what happens next? In just a little bit of time, House Democrats will be huddling up here on Capitol Hill trying to plot out their next steps, and they do have a key role here as well.

Speaker Johnson needs their support. He cannot risk jeopardizing any Democratic support to get a potential final bill, whatever that involves over the finish line and many Democrats here have really signaled that they are unwilling to potentially negotiate another bill after they spent months and months negotiating with Republicans and Speaker Johnson himself.

(END VIDEOTAPE) SIDNER: Our Sunlen Serfaty on Capitol Hill.

Now, let's go to CNN's Alayna Treene.

Alayna, you know, Donald Trump wading into all of this. What is he saying from his perch in Palm Beach?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's saying a lot of things. But I will also argue that his statements came out yesterday afternoon, pretty late in the day, after we had already seen people like Elon Musk, someone who, of course, has been very close to Donald Trump, but his influence has only grown, I would argue, exponentially since the election, given his close ties to Donald Trump.

People like Elon Musk, who is now set to lead the Department of Government Efficiency, a new panel that Donald Trump is creating have been trashed -- were trashing that bill all day and kind of put Republicans on Capitol Hill in an untenable situation. Until, then we saw Donald Trump kind of deliver that final blow.

[08:20:16]

I want to read to you some of what he said. He said, "Increasing the debt ceiling is not great, but we'd rather do it on Biden's watch. Republicans want to support our farmers, pay for disaster relief and set our country up for success in 2025. The only way to do that is with a temporary funding bill without Democratic giveaways, combined with an increase in the debt ceiling."

So I want to get a little bit into Donald Trump throwing the debt ceiling out there into all of this. I know Sunlen walked through some of this, but this is a major deal.

First of all, I was told that this caught many Republicans on Capitol Hill by surprise, especially when you consider that the debt ceiling is a very complex negotiation and typically takes several weeks, if not months, to work on.

And so, bringing this up now, mid-week, right before the deadline when the government could shut down this weekend is something that has a lot of people concerned. But some of the other things that Donald Trump said were: One, he said that he really does not want this bill to have as many Democrat giveaways. I just read some of that in the statement for you.

But really what I'm told is that he believes that this has way too many priorities for Democrats and that essentially, Johnson is giving away the store.

The other thing I'm told in my conversations with those who have talked to Donald Trump about this and are on his transition team, are that Donald Trump believes that he, even though, he is not president yet, he still has a ton of power and influence right now. And a lot of the decisions that this bill could be touching on, he believes, should be made when he's in office -- Sara.

SIDNER: Alayna Treene, thank you so much -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: All right, new information about this week's deadly shooting at a school in Wisconsin. Why was the shooter in contact with a man in California?

And US officials are now investigating a possible National Security risk linked to a popular brand of internet routers, the kind that could be in your home right now.

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[08:26:18]

BERMAN: This morning, new details about the teenager who shot and killed a classmate and a teacher at a religious school in Wisconsin.

We're learning, the15-year-old brought two guns with her on Monday, the day of the shooting. She apparently had been communicating with a 20-year-old man in California. Authorities say the man was planning to attack a government building with guns and explosives.

This morning, students and staff at the Abundant Life Christian School, they are grieving, Erin Michelle West and ninth grader Rubi Vergara. They were both killed. Let's get right to CNN's Whitney Wild in Madison with the latest this morning.

Good morning, Whitney.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

It seems that every time we learn a new answer, we have a new question. And today, those questions are focused on Southern California, where law enforcement has issued this gun violence protective order against a man in Carlsbad.

We're still gathering more details here, John, but what we know is that this happened because law enforcement was digging into the shooting here, and it appears based on reporting from our affiliate in San Diego, that this 20-year-old man from Carlsbad, California, was communicating with 15-year-old Natalie Rupnow prior to the shooting and apparently, again, according to our affiliate in San Diego, this man told FBI agents that he had told her, he had planned to attack a government building using explosives and a firearm.

At this point, he's under basically what is like a civil complaint, John. So, this is not criminal in nature yet, but what this gun violence protective order allows law enforcement to do is go in and get his firearms pending, you know, potentially pending a criminal charge later on.

These are all questions that we do not have answers to yet, but are certainly watching very closely.

Meanwhile here, John, as you mentioned, this is still a community very much grieving, tremendous loss. Erin West, that teacher who was killed, was the substitute coordinator. She was the in-house substitute teacher here at Abundant Life Christian School. She was just beloved by her students. Here's what one of those students told me about her loss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MACKYNZIE WILSON, STUDENT AT ABUNDANT LIFE CHRISTIAN SCHOOL: She really loved her kids, and she really, really loved everyone at her school and she would have done anything for them.

Looking back, I wish I could have gone back and given her a hug.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILD: We are also learning more about 14-year-old Rubi Vergara, John. Her family says that she is saying she played keyboard in a family band. She had tremendous artistic promise and this family now trying to look for ways to heal as they plan for her memorial services this Saturday.

John, a final note on the investigation here in Wisconsin. Law enforcement says that, as you mentioned, it was two firearms that Natalie Rupnow had on her at this school shooting. Federal law enforcement has traced those firearms. They've provided that information to the Madison Police Department, but MPD has not told us or not told the public who those guns belonged to or how she got them -- John.

BERMAN: Such a devastating loss there. Whitney Wild, thank you for your reporting -- Kate

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST. Happening right now. Luigi Mangione is in court to face gun charges and also extradition proceedings in Pennsylvania, all having to do with the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson. We have live analysis. We're tracking all of the happenings in that courtroom for you.

And how the fear and outcry over recent drone sightings has sparked a dangerous rise in laser incidents in planes.

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