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CEO Murder Suspect in Court; Trump Triggers Chaos on Capitol Hill. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 19, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Reports over the same period a year ago.

This is what it looks like. That's the blue laser there that was captured by a passenger on an American Airlines flight last Friday. The passenger tells CNN that this was over New Jersey as the flight was descending into New York's LaGuardia Airport.

Now, shining a laser pointer at an airplane or a helicopter is a felony. It carries an $11,000 fine from the FAA. And people do get caught. Just last week a Tennessee 18-year-old was arrested for pointing a laser at a Nashville police helicopter.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's so scary. That's a huge increase. And the fact that they're even putting this connection, right, this connection between the outcry over the drone sightings and this, it all adds up to being dangerous.

Pete, thank you so much for highlighting and bringing it to us. Really appreciate it.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

Happening right now, the man charged with murdering a health care CEO on the streets of New York is right now in court. Prosecutors want Luigi Mangione extradited from Pennsylvania to New York. And that decision could come very soon. Also, as word that he could also be soon be facing federal charges.

And on the brink of a government shutdown. The bipartisan deal that fell apart after Elon Musk started tweeting and Donald Trump called it a bad deal. There is no plan b at the moment, and they are very clearly running out of time.

Any moment now we are going to get a first look at the new Superman. The trailer about to release any second for one of the most highly anticipated movies of the year.

I'm Kate Bolduan, with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, happening at this moment, the man accused of murdering health care CEO Brian Thompson is inside a Pennsylvania courtroom. This hearing has been going on. One hearing, and a new one is about to begin on his extradition here to New York. Once that does conclude, suspect Luigi Mangione, who arrived in court - you can see the video of him arriving in court a little while ago. We are told he will waive extradition today. And the process to get him here to New York will begin. He could be here theoretically this afternoon.

So, we've got teams inside the courtroom watching this hearing, outside with cameras, inside the hallways everywhere.

Let's get to CNN's Brynn Gingras, who's with us here in New York monitoring all the developments.

We talked to you a few minutes ago. What's the latest now?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, John, the latest now is that we're hearing its possible - again, there are no communications inside the courtroom, so we're trying to filter this through our crews that are all there. It's possible that that first hearing has concluded and maybe the second hearing, the extradition hearing, is going to begin. It was expected to begin around 9:00 this morning. So again, not 100 percent clear, but we're still trying to firm that down.

What we do know is that he had first a hearing at 8:30 on those charges he faced in Pennsylvania, which was a forgery charge, a gun charge. And then what would happen is, the judge had to swap out. So, that new judge would take the bench, and he would have a hearing for that extradition hearing.

Now, of course, our sources telling Kara Scannell that he was planning to waive extradition. That means that he will be brought back here to New York. So, once that hearing is concluded, then Mangione, our understanding, is that he will be in the custody of the NYPD.

Now, we're still trying to also firm up whether or not he's going to be traveling from Pennsylvania to New York via helicopter, plane, or if it's going to be a ground transportation by car. But either way, he will be coming back to New York sometime today.

Also not clear just yet is when he will actually go in front of a judge here in New York on the 11 charges that were unsealed in an indictment just two days ago, including murder one and murder two. We don't know if that hearing will take place today or tomorrow. So, we're trying to firm up all of this. But we know he will be back here in New York.

Now, once he gets here, he will eventually make his way to 100 Center. Now that's the courthouse in lower Manhattan. You might be familiar with it. That is where Trump had his criminal trial earlier this year. He will be brought into what is called the tombs. He will have a booking photo done, fingerprinted, be in the custody of New York City and go in front of a judge. And tonight, I can tell you that he will definitely spend the night in Rikers, which is, of course, the prison - or the jail, rather, he will be held in until he eventually makes his way to his trial.

BERMAN: All right, Brynn Gingras, following all these developments.

Brynn, don't go far, because when something new happens, we're going to need you to give us that update.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Stay with us, Brynn, just as John requested. But we also have with us CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

Joey, I will start with you.

So, if the judge does waive extradition, when might we see Mangione facing - because he has to face the official charges in New York. That has not yet happened.

[09:05:02]

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

So, what happens in a court proceeding is that he has to voluntarily waive extradition, be advised of his right, and doing a knowing and intelligent waiver. You have a right to contest it. You're not going to. And then, of course, you move.

So, what will happen is, is that could be virtually immediate, right? Not as in, he's transported to New York, but ultimately he'll be brought to New York, I would assume right away, and as early as tomorrow, right, he could be before a judge. And the purpose of that, we know he's indicted. He has a right as a defendant to be arraigned. That is apprized of the charges. And now, right, due process. And what is due process? Knowing and an opportunity to be heard. He'll enter a plea of not guilty, which is standard protocol, and then it's game on in terms of his attorneys filing motions, discovery, that is evidence being provided to the attorneys for evaluation, and then the case moves.

SIDNER: Brynn, if you are still with us, I do want to ask you about the parents' role in - in this. We waited for quite some time because he was fighting extradition as to whether or not he was going to fight or not. Now we are hearing he is not going to fight this. What are you learning about his parents' involvement with his defense?

GINGRAS: Well, we know that he hired this high powered, who we know well, attorney, Karen Agnifilo. And we don't - we don't believe, or we've learned, that he - they have not visited him in the Pennsylvania jail where he has been held for the last week and a half or so. So, we know that they are involved in some aspect, but they have not yet made an appearance in front of him.

Don't expect them or any family members maybe to be inside that courthouse in Pennsylvania for these hearings right now. And it's unclear if they will even appear in New York. It is a media circus there, as you can imagine. Now we are dealing with two states, with media all over the place. It probably would not be advised to draw more attention to this family, especially considering who this family is, their status in sort of the Maryland community from where they are. But certainly they may appear at some point, but we haven't heard anything from them just yet.

SIDNER: OK. Now let's talk about something we got reporting this morning, just a bit ago from Katelyn Polantz, who reported that federal charges, Joey, are expected in this case as well. Why bring federal charges when the state has already brought the most severe charge you can possibly bring, first degree murder, and said that he was - because he has, in their terms, committed terrorism. Why bring the federal case?

JACKSON: Sure. So, it's always a matter of discretion. The federal government has jurisdiction. How do they have jurisdiction? What happens, Sara, very briefly, right, is that you have concurrent jurisdiction. The state, obviously, it was committed in Manhattan. The state has a right to move forward. But that does not mean that the federal government, right, has an opportunity because of that concurrent jurisdiction to go forward as well.

And so what they will do is they will likely file charges under what's called the Travel Act. The Travel Act, wat does that mean? It means when you cross state lines and you're actually committing a crime, that's a problem. And it's federal in nature to the extent that you used interstate commerce to carry out what you did. Then it raises all other questions as the federal government does come in with respect to, do they now go first? Does New York go first?

The big distinction, as we know, is that the federal government has the death penalty. New York state does not have the death penalty. His highest exposure, which is significant, is life in jail without parole. Under the federal system, however, you could be sentenced to death, if convicted.

SIDNER: So, it - since that is the case, since the death penalty sort of looms over the potential federal charges, could this be a tactic to try and get some kind of agreement, a settlement, if you will?

JACKSON: You know, it could be, Sara. It could be a plea, ploy, or what have you. But generally I think that there's a need for justice. And I think there's certainly two competing schools of thought. There are people in the public, in social media, who think he's a hero. Saint Luigi. I mean, it's unbelievable what you look at in social media in terms of glorifying what he's done.

Theres others, as it relates to governmental officials and prosecutors, who say, are you kidding me?

SIDNER: (INAUDIBLE), yes.

JACKSON: We have to deter this. You could have copycats and other people. If we don't nip this in the bud, then there's going to be a problem. So, the death penalty may not be strategic from the federal perspective. They may think that this is necessary and appropriate upon a conviction. We'll see. We're not there yet. The charges haven't even been formally released. But I think that there's a number of reasons why the feds could come in on this case.

SIDNER: Sending a message, as well as the legal ramifications.

JACKSON: Yes.

SIDNER: I do want to, you know, mention that the attorney who we know well, who just before the case was - was one of our analysts here on CNN, Karen Friedman Agnifilo, sent out a statement on the possibility of those federal charges. And she talks about it in the terms of, she believes this would be double jeopardy. What do you make of that, you know, this sort of idea of piling on top of an already what she called overcharged first degree murder state terror case?

JACKSON: So, I make, Sara, that she's doing her job, right?

[09:10:02]

And, obviously, she wants to protect her client. And in protecting him, wants to release a very, you know, vehement, forceful statement which would suggest that this is unnecessary.

At the same time, you don't have - do not have a double jeopardy issue. Why? Double jeopardy pertains to specific charges that you're charged against and you're, for example, acquitted, and then you're tried again on those charges. The federal government's theory of prosecution would be different. There's nothing in the charges in New York that say you crossed state lines. The feds, they say that, not double jeopardy. Let's see what the charges are when revealed. (INAUDIBLE).

SIDNER: We will see. There is a lot going on. And again, we just should mention, court is happening now. The judge is there. The defendant is there. And we are expecting that they talk about this extradition at this hour, like at - right now. And we will - we will probably get an answer fairly quickly.

JACKSON: Yes.

SIDNER: All right, Joey Jackson, it's always a pleasure. Thank you so much.

JACKSON: Thank you, Sara. And you.

SIDNER: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also happening right now, House Democrats gathering behind closed doors to try to figure out what happens now. Now after Donald Trump and Elon Musk jumped in at the 11th hour to spike a bipartisan deal that had been negotiated for weeks. Now they all need to figure out, how are they going to avoid another government shutdown.

Plus, there are new details coming out this morning about the Wisconsin school shooter and her connection to a man in California. How they talked about planning mass casualty events and what police are picking up about those communications.

The CDC has announced the first recorded severe case of bird flu in a human. And the concern that is now sparking.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:16:10]

BOLDUAN: A lot happening on Capitol Hill this morning, best described as chaos and uncertainty. Any moment now, Speaker Mike Johnson is going to be meeting with a group of Republican lawmakers with one question on the table, what do they do now? Now, after the long negotiated bipartisan deal to fund the government for really just a few months, it was just spiked at the 11th hour by Elon Musk and Donald Trump. House Democrats are also gathering behind closed doors right now to really discuss the same.

Earlier, John Berman asked Democratic Senator Dick Durbin for a status check.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What's the status of this deal, now non-deal?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): I wish I knew. I could just tell you that for months we've been trying to craft a bipartisan compromise to avoid a government shutdown and to fund some critical areas of government spending. We had an agreement. Of course, you just described accurately what happened to it last night. I hope the agreement moves forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: They don't have time to start back at square one, given the timing here.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty tracking all of this from Capitol Hill for us.

Sunlen, which meeting are you outside of? Because there are tons of meetings. And what is the latest?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, there certainly is a flurry of meetings and negotiations happening on Capitol Hill this morning. It is a flurry of activity where I am outside of the House Democratic Caucus meeting, where we have seen members going in and really sounding off about the next steps and the concern over the unknown here as they're heading into a really tough period of time between now and Friday night, midnight deadline, to keep the government funded and open.

We heard from - we were speaking to House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries as he came in, asking him the question, will there be a shutdown? And he was silent. That is certainly the undertone of this meeting right now is there is not a plan going forward. House Democrats are wondering what that plan is and are eagerly trying to put the onus on Republicans to get this solved in a matter of hours.

Now, we heard from many lawmakers as they came into the meeting really again sounding off about the situation they find them in. Here's Congresswoman Jayapal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): It will be their fault that Americans don't get disaster relief, that Americans don't get their Social Security checks. That is on the Republicans. Mike Johnson negotiated a deal with Leader Jeffries and Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden, and now he's reneging on the deal because the shadow president, Elon Musk, said that we shouldn't be doing this deal. So, this is on them. They're going to have to figure their way out of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: So, there you can really sense Democrats trying to put the onus on Republicans here at the state of, as one lawmaker said, the mess they find themselves in this morning.

Now Speaker Johnson, in about 15 minutes, he will be huddling separately with a small group of Republican lawmakers to try to plot out a course as they come together. And last night he was up here late on The Hill with J.D. Vance. They emerged from that meeting, noting that there has been no deal yet.

Now, the reality of the moment is that House Democrats do have an important moment here to - an important part to play here too. Speaker Johnson needs their support. He needs their support going forward at whatever deal, Kate, that they, in the end, broker. And many Democrats signaling that they are not in a deal-making mood, given that they had already spent months and months negotiating the last deal that got blown up.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right, we'll see what happens.

Great to see you, Sunlen. Thank you so much.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, joining us now is Democratic strategist Matt Bennett and Republican strategist Doug Heye.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being here.

All right, so instead of the president-elect being the first to announce he's blowing up the funding bill, Elon Musk was the first to do so on his platform X.

[09:20:03]

And he went off with many, many, many, many tweets. Does this give the perception at least that an unelected billionaire is calling the shots here?

I'll start with you, Matt. MATT BENNETT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: It absolutely does. I mean, we're supposed to have one president at a time. At the moment, we have three. We have President Biden, who is the president, we have the president-elect, Trump, and we have the unofficial president-elect in Musk. And that is a very complicated and very bad situation.

You know, transitions are vulnerable times for the United States. We have to make sure that things go as smoothly as possible, because our adversaries are watching. And if there is chaos, if we are shut down, if people are not at work, not getting their checks, that - that can be very dangerous.

So, this kind of shenanigans is bad whenever it happens. It is especially bad just a few weeks before the inauguration of a new president.

SIDNER: You know, you just heard, Doug, Congresswoman Jayapal using the words shadow government. The Republicans have always said there's a deep state and there's a - but she was referring to Elon Musk. How do you - how do you see this? Because certainly a lot of people are looking at this going, who's in charge?

DOUG HEYE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, it certainly gives Democrats a real opportunity to drive a wedge, not just between Republicans, but between Donald Trump and his most prominent ally. I expect they'll continue to do that as - as more examples and opportunities come.

And here's where we should be as Republicans right now. We've - we're retained the House. Weve won the Senate. We won the White House. We're going into January with unified government. This should be hammer time for us. And instead, Republicans are hitting themselves over the head with a hammer, going into a potential shutdown over the holidays, into a speaker election, into an inauguration. And it means, yes, as Matt said, that there are vulnerabilities here, but it also means that this does not help Donald Trump's agenda to kick off the way that it should.

If there are questions about the speaker vote, if we're dealing with those kinds of questions moving forward into an inauguration, it creates problems for Donald Trump that he doesn't need as a brand new president or as a president-elect building that transition. And especially because, shutdown or no, you have to then have some kind of a strategy for, how do you get out of this? What is the deal you cut? How do you reopen government? I've worked government shutdowns where we haven't had that plan for reopening, and it's been a disaster.

SIDNER: OK, I do want to ask you - there's a lot of people looking at what's happening where you have conservatives going after Speaker Johnson for giving in, in, in their terms to, to Democrat demands. And so a lot of folks saying, looks like he's not going to keep his job. But we just got this from President-elect Trump, who went on his social media site and said, in his words that "Speaker Mike Johnson will easily remain speaker if," and I'm quoting here, "he acts decisively and tough and gets rid of all the traps being set by Democrats."

I can't tell, is this an olive branch or is this a threat?

First to you, Doug.

HEYE: It's both. Let's remember, and I've said this to you, Sara, before, Donald Trump doesn't give points. He only takes them away one at a time. This is him saying, in advance that he's going to do so. And I tell you real quickly, Sara, you know, there are real world implications to this. And, yes, it's about, you know, government funds going out, the government keeping open.

I'm going to be in western North Carolina for Christmas. And that area is still ravaged by the effects of Hurricane Helene. If your home was destroyed by that hurricane, it has not been rebuilt. You're in temporary shelters. Thom Tillis and Ted Budd, the two North Carolina senators, have made it very clear that this will be included. And this is, obviously, a fight - this is part of the fight that's going to continue on this.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you, Matt, if Democrats, you think, would try to jump in and save Johnson since he did work with them on the initial bill, which, of course, has now been blown up because of the words of Donald Trump and Elon Musk.

BENNETT: Well, he hasn't earned it. But Democrats may end up helping him get this bill across the finish line because Johnson's margins are so narrow, and he's got a bunch of absolute radicals in his conference that won't vote for anything.

But look, there's nothing - there's no way to save him at the moment because it's very clear that there's no support among Republicans for the deal that Johnson just cut. So, Democrats - I mean, Trump trying to blame this on Democrats is laughable. This is obviously a problem caused by Musk and Trump and the radicals. This is their mess to clean up.

SIDNER: Now, Republicans are in control. And it was their bill to put forward. And there was an agreement. And now it's all gone.

Matt Bennett, Doug Heye, thank you both so much. Appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, a restraining order has now been issued against a California man who was messaging with the Wisconsin school shooter. Details on the bomb plot he described to FBI agents.

[09:25:00]

Thousands of Amazon workers are on strike just ahead of the holidays. What it means for those gifts that you might be hoping are going to arrive on time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: We have new details this morning in the Wisconsin school shooting. Authorities now say the 15-year-old shooter brought two guns with her to the Abundant Life Christian School on Monday, and had been in contact with a 20-year-old man in California. Now, authorities say that man was planning to attack a government building with guns and explosives.

[09:30:04]

And this morning, we now know the identities of the two people killed at the school. Teacher Erin Michelle West.