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New Information in Wisconsin Shooting; Dr. Paul Offit is Interviewed about Bird Flu; Workers on Strike Against Amazon; David Betancourt is Interviewed about the New Superman Movie. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired December 19, 2024 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Man was planning to attack a government building with guns and explosives.

And this morning, we now know the identities of the two people killed at the school. Teacher Erin Michelle West and ninth grader Rubi Vergara.

Let's get right to CNN's Whitney Wild, who is in Madison, Wisconsin.

A snowy, cold Madison, Wisconsin, with the latest on the investigation.

Whitney.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, John, what we know is that this investigation is now bicoastal. Law enforcement zeroing in on a man in Carlsbad, California.

Here's what we know at this point. This is not criminal at this point. This is a civil action. This is a gun violence protective order. And what that allows, John, is for law enforcement to go in and seize this man's firearms. According to our CNN affiliate in San Diego, the man apparently told FBI agents he was in communication with Natalie Rupnow prior to the shooting, and he had told her he had - had planned, had desired to basically attack a government building with explosives and a firearm.

There are more details coming in here, John. We are keeping a very close watch on that as that day unfolds. Meanwhile, the investigation here is continuing. As you had mentioned, law enforcement now saying it was two firearms that she brought to school. The ATF has traced those guns. They have given that information to the Madison Police Department. Madison Police Department has not released that information publicly. So, that means, John, we still don't know whose guns they were or how she got them.

This is still a community that is deeply grieving. As you mentioned, we now know the names of the two people who died.

Forty-two-year-old Erin West was a substitute coordinator here. She was an in-house substitute teacher. She was beloved by her students. One student I spoke with yesterday said that she made very clear she would do anything for her kids, anything for her students. And this one child I spoke with said that she wishes she could go back in time and have given her a hug. She just adored that teacher.

And then there's 14-year-old Rubi Vergara. She comes from a big, loving family. She had immense artistic talent. She sang, she played the keyboard.

These two losses, John, are - are incalculable. What we know is that this is a community looking for ways to heal. Rubi Vergara's memorial service will be held Saturday.

But for now, John, everybody here in this Abundant Life Christian School community again looking for ways to heal.

Back to you.

BERMAN: Seeing the photos of those women, a girl and a woman, and hearing the testimonials about how wonderful they were, it's just heartbreaking.

Whitney Wild, thank you for being there.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: More than 60 people have contracted bird flu in the United States now, and the CDC is tracking its first severe case in a human. What we know about how it is spreading, we've got that for you.

And we're also following the ongoing live updates of Luigi Mangione in a Pennsylvania courtroom. His extradition - extradition hearing now getting underway. How soon you could see him arraigned on murder charges in New York?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:37:43]

BOLDUAN: Public health officials have just reported the first known severe case of bird flu in the United States in a human. The CDC not detailing the patient's symptoms, but saying it is an elderly patient in Louisiana. Now in California, the governor there just declared a state of emergency over H5N1 after local efforts to contain the spread has so far failed. Right now, though, the CDC says they are monitoring the outbreaks. Current public risk remains low.

The man who will be tasked, if confirmed, with overseeing a federal response to this and other outbreaks like it in the coming administration, President Trump's pick to lead HHS. RFK Jr. He's been on The Hill meeting with senators all week to try and shore up support for his nomination, with serious questions remaining about his long history of denying medical science, the very science used to fight potential outbreaks of many dangerous illnesses.

Joining us right now is Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.

Dr. Offit, thanks for coming back in.

Knowing what you do about RFK's stated views in the past, how critical the agencies are within HHS in responding to any serious outbreak of disease, how do you envision he handles a crisis like if bird flu became serious under his watch in the coming months?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR OF THE VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Right. Well, although I think bird flu is unlikely to become a pandemic, the - the - there are 16 different types of influenza, all based on the hemagglutinin or h protein. So there's H1, H2, H3, H5 is bird flu. The only pandemics we've ever had in history are H1, H2, H3 because those viruses can bind to cells in our upper respiratory tract, reproduce, and then spread. H5 virus has never done that.

But nonetheless, that doesn't mean that it can't. And we need to be ready for that. In fact, we are ready in the sense that ever since 2020 we have had a bird flu vaccine that is licensed for everyone over six months of age in this country as a two dose vaccine. And indeed - indeed Europe has already distributed about 40 million doses of their bird flu vaccine, which is actually an H5N8 vaccine. So, they're - and they've distributed it to industries that are at high risk, poultry, dairy and fur. And you could reasonably do that here. You could reasonably start to give vaccines to the people that work in the dairy industry or people who work in the poultry industry.

[09:40:05]

So, we certainly need to be ready.

And now you have an anti-vaccine activist who I can't believe would get behind a vaccine should there be a pandemic. And so, of course, I'm worried. He has always said that he doesn't think there's any vaccine that is of value, so why would he think this one would be of value?

BOLDUAN: And it's also not just how what his stated views are and how RFK Jr. would operate with his vaccine cynicism. It's the people around him. This is a vast agency - this is a vast department, 13 important agencies underneath - in - within HHS. Like, we do know that the man who is helping to vet officials to fill HHS has actually petitioned the FDA a couple years ago to revoke approval of the polio vaccine. That's why that's all been kind of started to be discussed once again this week.

And the man picked to head up the CDC is a former member of Congress who, like Kennedy, has questioned the safety of vaccines and has also said that he believes the false claim that vaccines can cause autism. I mean if Kennedy and those around him don't trust established science, deny scientific data when presented with it, what does it mean for them to oversee a science-based agency?

OFFIT: That's exactly right. I mean I first came to know Dave Weldon in the early 2000 when I was on the advisory committee for immunization practices to the CDC, because he believed that the MMR vaccine caused autism, even though there was abundant data that it didn't. And he made us vote on that. He made us vote on separating the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine into its three component parts, because he thought that would lessen the risk of autism, which was absurd given - given what we knew. And so we all voted no. It was sort of an embarrassing moment, but he got what he wanted because then we - we - the way the media covered that was, we deliberated, then we voted no, as if this was ever an issue.

And he also believed that thimerosal, this ethyl mercury containing preservative that was in vaccines given to young children but really isn't anymore, not for young children, he also believed that caused autism, even though there was at least nine studies that showed that wasn't true.

So, you're right, do you want somebody who heads a science-based agency who denies science that doesn't comport with their particular point of view?

BOLDUAN: One thing I noticed this week, Dr. Offit, is that Donald Trump said in his press conference the - about RFK Jr., he's not going to be as radical as you think, saying this to reporters who were asking questions about his past views and if Donald Trump believes - agrees with them. But it had me thinking, even short of revoking vaccine approval, this agency, more than maybe many in the federal government, depends on public confidence and trust. If that is eroded, what is the danger?

OFFIT: I think - you can look at this two ways. You could say, if RFK Jr. is made the head of health - the Department of Health and Human Services, will that erode trust? I sort of see it in many ways in the opposite way. I think the only reason that someone like RFK Jr. would even be remotely considered for that position, given his liabilities, is that there has been a loss of trust. He doesn't trust the Health - Department of Health and Human Services, and then the heads of the FBI - I'm sorry, the heads of the FDA, NI - National Institutes of Health, and CDC also don't trust those agencies. So, you're bringing in people who don't trust the agencies they're about to head. I can only imagine that would be enormously demoralizing for the civil servants, the public health servants who have given their life to try and make sure that we are as - as healthy as we can be in this country.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

Dr. Offit, I always appreciate your expertise in coming on. Thank you. Really appreciate it.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, right now, teamsters union members are on strike against Amazon in several cities. A spokesperson for Amazon is calling the entire situation a PR play. CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is here tracking all of this.

I guess the first question to you is, how big of an impact might this make on Amazon, and, obviously, the workers on strike. VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well,

Amazon is saying that this will have no impact. The workers on strike, represented by the teamsters, are hoping that this makes an impact.

So, you have thousands of Amazon drivers on strike this morning at - across four states at about seven locations. And essentially the reason that they are on strike this morning is because the teamsters, which represents them, says that Amazon has not come to the table to negotiate with them on things like pay and benefits.

But the reason that workers are on strike this morning are really personal. Take a listen to one worker in Queens about why she's on strike this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LATRICE JOHNSON, AMAZON DRIVER: Sometimes it could go up to 300, 400 packages. I've heard people even getting more.

If you're doing a heavy route like that for somebody who's not so energetic like me, that could take till past 9:00.

[09:45:01]

And they want you to be back at a certain time.

I want to live better. I work for this billion-dollar company and I deserve better. I deserve to be living good. Like, it's not fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH: And I think a lot of us know just how hard these workers do work. I mean everybody orders packages from Amazon.

This is symbolic in two ways. One, because this is the first time Amazon has experienced a strike. This is the first time workers have gone on strike. But it's also symbolic because these workers are not recognized as union members by Amazon and by the National Labor Relations Board.

And Amazon, for their part, is saying that this is an illegal strike because they are not union members. But the teamsters say, we represent them. And ultimately the question is, why now, because they have been trying to be recognized for so many years.

Well, this is ahead of the holiday season. And they want to make a stand. Amazon saying that this will not affect people's deliveries for Christmas and Hanukkah. But just the perception that there is a strike at Amazon might get someone, a consumer, to say, let me not order last minute from Amazon. Let me order last minute from Walmart instead to ensure that I get my presents, my packages for the holiday season. And that ultimately is a win for these workers.

SIDNER: Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much for your reporting. There's a lot of nuances going on there, but certainly there are workers really upset about their living conditions and their working conditions. Appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, it's a bird, it's a plane, it's the movie trailer we've been waiting for. It's everything we've been waiting for. The new Superman trailer dropped minutes ago. You will see it here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:51:15]

BERMAN: All right, it's all happening. Just a few moments ago, the first trailer for the new Superman, highly anticipated to say the least. A few minutes ago, the trailer dropped. Here it is.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, the film is from Warner Brothers Pictures, a division of CNN's parent company, which technically makes Superman my coworker. It comes out in July.

With us now is David Betancourt, sports memorabilia and collectibles editor for "The Atlantic." He's also the author of "The Avengers Assembled."

And, David, I ask this completely objectively, how awesome was that trailer?

DAVID BETANCOURT, SPORTS MEMORABILIA AND COLLECTIBLES EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC": Well, first things first, I was very surprised that the first thing I wanted to do after watching that trailer is go home and hug my two dogs, Bear and Luna. I think that's very indicative of the James Gunn style of storytelling. You know, James Gunn was brought over to Warner Brothers to be the co-head of DC Studios to bring in a new era for DC Comics and their movies. And one thing that we - one thing that we know James Gunn is very good at is taking secondary characters that maybe not the whole world is familiar with and turning them into household names. I think aside from the fact that Superman is in this movie, we see with Krypto that, you know, more of the same will be happening with this movie.

BERMAN: Yes, for those who don't know, and really everyone should know this, Krypto is Superman's dog. And that was one of the very first things we saw in this trailer. And I didn't know we were going to. So, when I saw Krypto in that trailer, I had the same reaction you did.

You mentioned why this is important for Warner Bros. Discovery, why it's important, I think, for the entire film universe. James Gunn is trying to make the DC superhero universe, Superman, Batman, et cetera, a big deal again.

BETANCOURT: Yes. I mean one of the first things James Gunn did when he came over as co-head is made a new name. It's not DC Entertainment, it's not DCEU, it's DC Studios. That word studios is key. James Gunn is coming over from Marvel Studios, where he had the very successful "Guardians of the Galaxy" trilogy. He's been a part of a studio that's been a behemoth in Hollywood, that knows how to make superhero movies. DC now being called DC Studios, it's James Gunn's way of saying, hey, there's no - we're Warner Brothers, we're DC, we have some of the strongest IP in the world, some of the most recognizable characters on the planet, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. There's no reason DC and their movies shouldn't be in the same breath, in the same neighborhood as Marvel Studios. That hasn't been the case for the last decade. I think this movie is showing that they're trying to strive for that.

BERMAN: So, I watched the trailer three times during the commercial breaks of this show over the last hour. Krypto was the first thing that jumped out to me. Seeing David Corenswet, and I think I'm saying his name right, as Superman. I just hadn't seen him do it as much. It was also very interesting. And it felt true to the character that we've known over the last four decades.

What jumped out at you from watching the trailer?

BETANCOURT: Just how new it feels. Just how bright and open it feels. You know, we see a lot of the scenes from when they were filming in Cleveland. This is a world that's out in the open, you know, even from the advertising for the trailer coming up. Look up, look up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane, it's Superman. This is - they're doing a great job of embracing what makes a Superman movie great.

And I think this is a very positive trailer in terms of getting hype up, because, let's face it, DC Studios - well, now DC Studios, it hasn't always been a positive thing going into making these live action movies, but this could be the start of something different.

[09:55:06]

BERMAN: I also - I have some questions, and I think you're supposed to have some questions. I think I saw Lois Lane, Rachel Brosnahan, a close personal friend of Kate Bolduan, by the way. I think I saw Lois Lane kissing both Clark Kent and maybe hugging Superman separately, which raises a lot of questions about the nature of that relationship.

BETANCOURT: Very much so. You know, we see Lois and Clark kind of have a look in the Daily Planet newsroom. And you kind of get the vibe of, does she know? Does she not know?

Obviously, if there's a scene where she's kissing him and the glasses are off, but the Superman suit isn't on. Maybe that's kind of a spoiler to let us know that at some point she's going to figure out Clark's secret identity.

You know, this movie is - they're going for it right away. There's not a lot of origin story. There's not a lot of world building. You know, they're letting us know right away that Superman is here. So, it's possible Lois may already know, just like you and I, that Clark is Superman.

BERMAN: Yes, I think we know.

David Betancourt, listen, thank you for indulging me. My co-anchors here are laughing at me, but that was a serious question.

SIDNER: No, we're not.

BERMAN: The Lois and Clark thing was serious, and it was part of the trailer. And thank you for affirming me, David Betancourt.

SIDNER: Big news.

BERMAN: Come back any time.

BETANCOURT: It's a very professional question.

BERMAN: Yes.

SIDNER: Yes. Very good. I have never seen you geek out more than I have today. I am shocked and happy about it.

BERMAN: The trailer was good.

SIDNER: Super guy for Superman.

BOLDUAN: We see you, John. We see you.

SIDNER: We see you.

BERMAN: Do this.

BOLDUAN: We hear you.

BERMAN: I'm going to show you -

BOLDUAN: Uh-oh.

BERMAN: I'm going to show you the -

BOLDUAN: Oh, this is -

SIDNER: It's happening.

BERMAN: Superman. I'll show you the Superman thing.

SIDNER: He's got the abs -

BOLDUAN: Do it? Wait you have -

BERMAN: No, I don't have -

SIDNER: Go to break.

BOLDUAN: I was like, what? This is happening. You should have just done it as a teaser. Just wait for it, guys.

Thanks for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "CNN NEWSROOM, up next.

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