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Government Shutdown Looms; Johnson Expects Vote; Rep. Dusty Johnson (R-SC) is Interviewed about a Government Shutdown; Mangione Now in New York Prison. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired December 20, 2024 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

KATE BARRAND, PRESIDENT AND CEO, HORIZONS FOR HOMELESS CHILDREN: A living wage in the city of Boston. We have significant child poverty. So, when you put all those together with the high cost of childcare on top of it, it's impossibly difficult for families.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Karian learned about Horizons through the shelter she was staying in. Then her family's life changed dramatically.

KARIAN, MOTHER OF CHILD ENROLLED AT HORIZONS SCHOOL: She's going to age out of here. So that gets me like, OK, a sense of security. She's going to stay here until she goes to kindergarten and she's getting everything she needs. You know, the nourishment, the warmth, not only education, the warmth, you know? That makes me feel, you know, calm.

TAPPER (voice over): Karian now has her own apartment, her GED and a new full-time job. Most importantly, she's now on the same schedule as her children.

KARIAN: They're extremely happy now. They have that consistency, you know what I mean?

It's a huge sense of relief, you know, that we're all in the house at the same time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, time is ticking to get a deal to avoid a government shutdown. House Republicans are scrambling to get their party on the same page. And Donald Trump is saying, let the shutdown happen as long as it happens before he takes office. We're following all the chaos on Capitol Hill this morning.

Also, could CEO murder suspect Luigi Mangione now face the death penalty? We'll talk with law enforcement officials about how state and federal prosecutors are building their case against him.

Plus, sentencing this hour for the man convicted of murdering two young girls in Delphi, Indiana. Richard Allen is facing up to 130 years in prison.

I'm Sara Sidner, with Kate Bolduan. John Berman is out today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: We do have new developments just in this morning - just this morning on the current mess on Capitol Hill. The Republican house speaker just telling CNN that they have another plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): We have a plan. We have a plan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there going to be a different bill on the floor today?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, are you going to vote today?

JOHNSON: Yes, that - we're - we're expecting the votes this morning. So, y'all stay tuned. We - we got a plan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have - you've reached a new agreement?

JOHNSON: We'll see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: We've got a plan. Have you reached a new agreement? We'll see. We'll see is right.

Things we know at this hour is that the speaker has already gone into a meeting this morning with the House Freedom Caucus, Vice President- elect J.D. Vance and Russ Vought, Donald Trump's pick to lead the Office of Management and Budget. What they're trying to do is to break the ice on the breakdown that has occurred among Republicans over how to avoid a government shutdown tonight. Conservatives voted against the Republican plan last night, in big part because Donald Trump added into the mix a new ask, suspending the federal debt limit for another two years as part of this deal. That's been a no-go for a long time among conservative Republicans.

So, this morning, the president-elect is also putting out more of his thoughts. This just in the last hour, saying on social media, that if the government is going to shut down, do it now under the Biden administration, while Joe Biden's still in the White House.

Joining us now, CNN's Annie Grayer, who was there to speak to the House speaker as he was coming in this morning.

What is the latest now, Annie?

ANNIE GRAYER, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, the latest is the meeting that the speaker was having with J.D. Vance, his OMB director, and Republicans who were against the vote last night. That meeting is breaking up behind me. As you can see, lawmakers are leaving.

And one of them came out and said they think that Republicans could vote as early as 10:00 a.m. this morning. But the question is, on what are they going to be voting on? Because Republicans clearly still do not have consensus on what specifically to do about debt limit suspension. That wasn't a part of the government funding conversation for weeks until Donald Trump and Elon Musk inserted it. And then Speaker Mike Johnson and his leadership team put a new plan on the floor. Last night we saw 38 Republicans vote against it.

And they're going to need a lot of Democrats to get on board to get this to pass before government funding runs out tonight. Last night we didn't see nearly - we only saw two Democrats support it. Not nearly enough. So there's a lot of discussion about what could happen - what they could put on the floor today that could maybe get more Democratic consensus.

And, you know, it's - there's no question of just the role that Donald Trump has played here, looming large over all of this.

Listen to one senator, what he thinks the president should do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): I think one of the ways that this could get fixed fairly quickly would be if President Trump would come up to Washington tomorrow or spend the weekend here and talk to people face to face. Let's face it, I mean he's - you know, he's got a lot of sway and persuasion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRAYER: So, that's Senator Kevin Cramer talking about why he thinks president-elect should come to Congress to make the case directly. But right now J.D. Vance, who's the vice president-elect, is being the conduit for the Trump transition team, trying to get Republicans on board with a government funding plan before it runs out of funding tonight.

[09:05:13]

BOLDUAN: But still, I mean, what's very clear is nothing's clear. They say they've got a plan. They say they could have votes. But no one has seen this plan. And we've just had Democrats - a couple Democrats on the show who said - who have already said this morning, Annie, Democrats are going to vote - aren't going to vote for anything if they're not part of the discussion. It seems that that's unlikely as of this morning that they were part of that - the meetings that have been going on so far.

Annie's going to stick to it. She's going to stick with it. The speaker's office is right down - right over her shoulder, so she's going to be trying to chase people down to bring us this information as we speak.

Annie, thank you so much. Keep us updated.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, joining us now, CNN anchor and chief political correspondent Dana Bash.

All right, you've seen a lot of these fights over the years over the budget.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

SIDNER: I mean, you know, it felt like every few months for a while there. Actually, that was the case. So, we just heard from Speaker Johnson. They got a plan, you know, that they can agree on maybe. And I - and I just spoke with Katherine Clark, who says Democrats haven't been consulted, nor were they consulted on plan b, the plan before that, that Donald Trump was back. How do you see this playing out?

BASH: This is, of course, the whole premise of the original deal that Mike Johnson struck was that Democrats need to be at the table because there is such a narrow majority that Republicans have. And, by the way, it's going to get even narrower as the next Congress comes in.

But the reality that Mike Johnson is well aware of is that there are so many members of his own conference who will not vote for a spending bill that is as large as this is to fund the government kind of no matter what. So, that's the - as I said, the reality that he is well aware of, which is different from what Elon Musk sees, what Donald Trump sees, what they are trying to play here. And what this has done, and I'm not really sure, Sara, if Donald Trump realized that this would be a consequence. But what that vote last night did is expose, even before Donald Trump is in the White House, that he doesn't have the grip on the house Republican conference that he thought he did.

Thirty-eight Republicans openly defied him. They'd said, no, we're not going to support this package that you support for lots of reasons, primarily because he wants to increase the debt ceiling, and that's anathema to so many of his fellow Republicans who serve in the House.

And so, politically, again, this has done, I think a little bit of damage, not permanent damage. He's very popular. He is, you know, going to have a lot of capital when he comes in. But what we thought could happen has already happened, even before he raised his right hand.

SIDNER: You talked about these 38 conservative Republicans who voted with Democrats essentially to tank plan b. Is this something that you think is a one off because everyone says, look, this is - this is Trump's party. That's pretty obvious. He was able to tank the other bill that was bipartisan.

BASH: Right.

SIDNER: But do you think this - this - this really does signal something that is greater, that could not just be a blip?

BASH: It could be on this specific issue of government spending. As much as Donald Trump is saying the right things, doing the right things, having Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy say we're going to cut government spending. In the short term, it's not so easy. And this has exposed that reality and really should have made it hit home to Donald Trump.

And it's also a reminder, Sara, that a lot of the basis for the Trump coalition started with the Tea Party. Remember the Tea Party back in - coming into the 2010 election. That was based on too much government spending. And a lot of the people who supported the Tea Party and became Tea Party members were angry at another fellow Republican, George W. Bush, for spending too much. And so that sensibility is still very much a driver, a main point of philosophy for some, if not all of the 38 Republicans who said, no, Mr. President-elect, even though you say you support raising the debt ceiling, we're not going to do it because we don't think that's the right thing to do.

SIDNER: Dana Bash, it is always a pleasure to see you and have you on.

BASH: You too.

[09:10:01]

SIDNER: I appreciate you coming on this morning before your show.

BASH: Thanks, Sara.

SIDNER: OK.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Let's get back to the Hill right now. Joining us right now is Republican Congressman Dusty Johnson of South Dakota.

Congressman, thank you so much for coming in. The Speaker said in walking in early this morning that, the way he said it is, we're expecting votes this morning, we've got a plan. Have you seen a new plan?

REP. DUSTY JOHNSON (R-SD): Things are still very fluid and very dynamic. The Speaker has been meeting with the holdouts. And listen, there is progress being made, but there is not a plan. Nothing is going to be released. I shouldn't say there's not a plan. There is not a piece of legislation yet. Vote times have not been called.

But listen, we're going to get this done. It's just going to take a little bit of time yet.

BOLDUAN: You really -- you still believe that you're going to get this done before government funding lapses before the midnight deadline?

JOHNSON: Oh, I don't see any real value in pessimism. Everybody around here is always, oh, woe is me, and everything's going to heck. The reality is, we need to get this done. It will be exceptionally stupid if we don't get this done. And I always believe the cooler heads will prevail and that we will actually do our job around here.

BOLDUAN: Pragmatism is something you are known for. Optimism -- optimism, I'm going to hand it to you. But, you know, the realism might also set in very, very soon.

So here's the thing. This addition of the debt ceiling asked from Donald Trump has, as Dana was just saying, really exposed, I mean, if anyone out there has followed Congress for any amount of time, you know that this has long been despised, but raising the debt ceiling by conservatives in the House. They have never gone along with it. They do not like it. No matter your feelings about it, you should know that they know -- you know that that's their position.

So if it's not, if you're not -- if government funding is not going to lapse, it seems the options might be cut a deal with the right flank of the party, the holdouts, and strip out any debt ceiling increase, which goes directly against the president-elect, or go back to the table with Democrats that might include a debt ceiling increase, but then you really definitely lose those Republicans and maybe some more, which sounds more likely right now?

JOHNSON: Well, you did outline two major approaches, although I would tell you there are a lot of branch-offs from those two main trunks, and I think we -- I think there are some chances that we could do some really innovative things.

Listen, there's a disagreement about tactics right now, but ultimately, all of the Republicans want to do all the same things. We just got to figure out how to sequence them. I think a deal with Republicans is a lot more likely than a deal with Democrats, but ultimately, on the spending, on the reconciliation stuff in next year, because I think we may have to sequence some of this.

With regard to what we do today, or probably today, I think we're going to have Democrats or Republicans vote for what ultimately passes. I mean, Democrats -- some Democrats also voted for what we did yesterday, so it's not like we haven't been talking to people who are interested in avoiding a shutdown.

BOLDUAN: And that's a good -- that is a real point. The Democrats we -- I had Meeks on earlier, and he said the problem is Republicans need to -- Johnson needs to bring us back to the table before we're ready to vote. You know, they, saying that they feel spurred because that first deal fell apart.

JOHNSON: OK, and I think facts matter. Here's the reality. What did we vote on yesterday? We voted on a one-year farm extension that the Democrats negotiated, health care extenders that the Democrats negotiated, disaster relief that the Democrats negotiated, farm economic relief that the Democrats negotiated. The thing that put them sideways was President Trump wanting to push the debt ceiling back, something that Democrats have always been supportive of.

So I guess I'm a little surprised that when he gave them one more thing that they wanted, they flipped out and walked away. It might be that they craved the drama. It might be that they wanted to deny the incoming president a win. That's all a little immature, but I get it. I work in Washington, D.C.

BOLDUAN: The politics of leverage as well, right? Right, Congressman, we do know that very well. Can I ask you, there's a lot of also criticism of the House Speaker himself over how this has all gone down.

Senator Josh Hawley, Republican, offered a pretty brutal critique of how he's been handling it. He called Johnson an embarrassment, calling the C.R. a total disaster, and saying, this is Mike Johnson's fault.

JOHNSON: Well, listen, Senator Hawley knows a lot about this town. I would say that the closer you get to understanding the very difficult situation Mike Johnson was in, the more you appreciate what an incredible job he has done.

He does not have a Republican Senate. He does not have a Republican White House right now. He has had to negotiate with an arm or two tied behind his back, and yet we are still on the cusp of making sure that we get a tremendous number of Republican priorities in this package during a time when Republicans only control barely one-half of one- third of the federal government.

[09:15:12]

BOLDUAN: You're really good at math. I'm learning that really quickly, and I really appreciate it.

(LAUGHTER)

Congressman, real quick, I heard Kevin Cramer, the senator from -- well, your neighbor to the north, North Dakota, he said that he thinks that at this point, Donald Trump needs to get on a plane and come to town to work this out. Do you -- would you like to see that?

JOHNSON: I -- I think that'd be wonderful. Clearly, the president -- the incoming president has some strongly held opinions about what he'd like to see in this package, and -- and, listen, he's a brilliant guy. He is not infrequently a disruptive force, and that is a good thing. I don't think there are very many Americans who are super happy about how we've been doing business the last 40 years. I think we saw some really good things come out of his approach in his first term. If he got here, I think we would be able to get a really good package together quickly.

I can't wait for January 20th. It is not always going to be easy, but I think we're going to get a tremendous amount done for the American people.

BOLDUAN: Especially when, you know, how slim the majority is about to get. It's not always going to be easy. It might be an understatement. We're going to talk about that come January 20th, Congressman.

Keep us updated. The camera's there. We'd love to have you be the new correspondent as a side job for CNN New Central as things develop this morning. Please come back and keep us updated on how things are looking amongst the Republican conference. Thank you, sir.

JOHNSON: Anytime. Thanks much.

BOLDUAN: I really appreciate it.

They've got a lot of work to do today to get this thing worked out.

Still ahead for us, suspected CEO killer Luigi Mangione is facing mounting charges and now the possibility of the death penalty. How state and federal prosecutors are building their cases.

And a live look - let's show you. How's it looking? Not too bad. But also kind of grody. And that's a technical weather term. Milwaukee. The roads in Milwaukee right now as holiday travel is getting into full swing this weekend. What's the weather going to do to your plans? The forecast. We've got that for you just ahead.

And also, Starbucks workers are on strike. Why baristas have walked off the job in three major cities.

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[09:21:50]

SIDNER: Today, the man suspected of murdering UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson will spend his first full day in a New York federal prison. He arrived yesterday in - there's no other way to describe it - dramatic fashion before he was taken to his first federal court appearance. You see him there.

Mangione now faces four federal counts, one of which could bring the death penalty if prosecutors so choose. This is in addition to the state murder charges that he is also facing.

This morning, new details are also now coming out from the notebook police say was found on Mangione. Writings, prosecutors say, about an alleged plan to, quote, "whack" the CEO. With me now is former FBI supervisory special agent, Peter Licata, and CNN's Brynn Gingras, who has been following this case since the beginning.

Peter, I'm going to start with you.

The federal charges are for stalking, murder through use of a firearm, and there are a couple of stalking charges and firearm offenses. Can you explain how these came to be, how they came to these particular charges?

PETER LICATA, FORMER SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: Right. So, good morning.

The - both charges are Title 18 of federal law and it's - one section is being charged on a couple counts as 2261, which is the stalking and the intent to a crime of violence using a firearm. The other statute is Title 18 924, which is the possession of a firearm in furtherance of a violent crime.

So, the way the criminal complaint about a ten-page federal criminal complaint was written was it outlines and details basically his notebook, which is the stalking, the intent. So, we always talk about mode of opportunity, means. All three of those elements are addressed and captured in - in the criminal complaint, as well as his notebook. And they seem to match up.

SIDNER: All right, Brynn, and I'll probably have you weigh into this too. We saw these extraordinary images of police surrounding Mangione. You also had the mayor of New York, Eric Adams, there in the background, the police commissioner. Is this a normal scene?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No. No, quite frankly, I have never seen anything like that. Now, look, I have worked in New York City for over a decade doing local news as well.

SIDNER: Yes.

GINGRAS: So, perp walks are not uncommon. I know jurisdictions, you know, no one does perp walks, possibly. In New York, when it's a high- profile case like this, they will do a perp walk. So, that's not the uncommon part.

Of course, this one was highly dramatic with the amount of officers that we saw. As you noted, the mayor, which was highly unusual. The fact that there was a helicopter involved. The length and the distance that he had to walk while shackled. So, there were some elements of it that, of course, I think a lot of people are pointing out, wondering, this was a bit excessive.

I think, for the NYPD side of this, you know, for them, this was someone who led them on a five-day manhunt. You know, he - they used all the resources that they possibly had to try to find this person. They just had a brand-new police commissioner sworn in. There was a lot of pressure on this case. You have to remember, again, this was two weeks ago. There was a tree lighting that day. It happened at 6:45 in the morning, in the middle of midtown, with tourists. So, I think there was a lot of elements that brought into this case where the NYPD wanted to make a statement with this perp walk.

[09:25:07]

Now, we also know he was federally charged. So now you have the FBI coming in to. But certainly the dramatic part of all of this, it was intense.

I do want to say also, talking to someone yesterday, because I questioned about that.

SIDNER: Yes.

GINGRAS: You know, they also were like, guys, you have to remember, there's a security element here. You know, a lot of people know this man's face now and were bringing him from - I mean, it was their choice to bring him from a helicopter to this car. But there was that security element with the long guns that we were seeing, worried about the safety also of Mangione in some cases up to that point.

But certainly it was highly dramatic. It's unclear and debatable what sort of effect it had. I think some people are questioning, did it just sort of make him more of a hero to them, that you just, like, give him exactly what he wants, you know, in this moment. He's getting all the fanfare.

I can tell you standing there on that pier, I mean, the amount of tourists who were asking me, who's here? You know, you would have thought, honestly, it was a celebrity. And they stayed. They stayed to take their own videos and we're talking about it. So, it was a certainly interesting moment.

SIDNER: Yes. And in speaking to our legal analyst, I mean, you know, both of them, Elie Honig, saying, look, this could be used by the defense.

GINGRAS: Yes.

SIDNER: Because the jury pool is only so big, although New York's a big place.

GINGRAS: Right.

SIDNER: But, he's everywhere. And - and this show, you're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

GINGRAS: Exactly. It's very clear that the, you know, law enforcement was like, this is our defendant.

SIDNER: Yes.

GINGRAS: This is our guy. We know he did it.

SIDNER: Yes.

GINGRAS: And we're going to show you, because this may be the last time you actually see him, since he'll be now in federal custody.

SIDNER: Right. (INAUDIBLE).

GINGRAS: Peter, we learned - you - and you touched on these, about the details investigators say were in Mangione's notebook. The details are finally coming together, he wrote. I'm glad, in a way, that I procrastinated, he - he allegedly wrote, saying it gave him time to learn more about the company he was targeting, and then he allegedly wrote, the target is insurance because it checks every box.

When you read through this, how significant is it to have this notebook? Because without it, could he have been federally charged with the things that he was charged with?

LICATA: It would have been harder, right? So, it would have been a lot more difficult for the - for the federal government to pursue these charges in concurrence with the city of New York or the state of - the city of New York or the state of New York really.

So, the notebook helps. Again, I've worked a few cases on the terrorism side when I was a member of the JTTF that we had Najibullah Zazi, the New York City subway bomber, not to compare the two, but we had his notes. We had his notes that he took at terrorist camps over in Afghanistan. So, all it does is it's - they're nails in the - the - in the prosecution's case that helped seal these matters to make sure they get a successful prosecution.

But keep in mind, the investigation is still continuing. It's not over yet. Things are good. That notebook will be fully analyzed. The investigation is going to continue until the end of that trial. SIDNER: Right.

Peter Licata, thank you so much.

And also to our Brynn Gingras, who's been on this since the beginning.

Appreciate you both.

All right, thousands of drivers for Amazon, they're on strike just days before Christmas. What Amazon is saying about the possible impact on the holiday rush later this hour.

And a historic version of "Friday Night Lights" in the Hoosier state. Notre Dame facing off against the Hoosiers for the first time in, guess how long, 33 years for the college football playoffs.

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