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Time Runs Out to Prosecute Trump; Four Years Since January 6, 2021; Congress to Certify Trump's Win; Biden Heads to New Orleans; New Documentary on Melania Trump. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 06, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

CLIFF KUPCHAN, CHAIRMAN, EURASIA GROUP: That's exactly right. It's - it's the personalistic rule of Donald Trump and the slow erosion of the rule of law that - that really worries us.

I mean, look, he's going to come in with a very loyalist, more experienced team. He will probably put his, you know, -- some of them in control of the DOJ, the Department of Justice and the FBI, go after his political opponents. And that's really going to stretch the rule of law.

The point that we make, though, is that the military, the courts, and adversarial media, and especially federalism, we forget about state administration of national elections, it's really, really hard to steal an election right now. So, we think there's going to be another election, but we also think this could be the biggest erosion of institutional norms since reconstruction. Thats a big deal and, you know, that's a very big deal.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That would be a huge deal, frankly.

Very quickly, number three on the list is the U.S.-China breakdown. Where do you see U.S.-China relations going? There's bipartisan support, I think, for an incredibly tough stance on China here in the United States. So, where do you think that's going in the next four years? And if you're living in Taiwan right now, how safe do you feel?

KUPCHAN: I think the relationship is going to get much more problematic over the next four years. We call it unmanaged decoupling. We call it breakdown.

Trump's tariffs are going to really set off alarm bells in Beijing. Technology policy, stronger export controls, going after legitimacy of the Chinese Communist Party, which at least some around Trump want to do. And then there's the issue of Taiwan, which is, you know, the perennial bug there. (INAUDIBLE) - they'll shoot back at us if we start a tariff war. They're in a defensive crouch right now and they're ready for one (ph) restricting exports of critical minerals and other goods to the United States. But what we're really going to see is a disruption of the international economy and this real sort of ossifying of mutual suspicion, which can make an accident more likely. It's a troubled relationship. BERMAN: Cliff Kupchan from the Eurasia Gorup. Risk is your business. And these could be boom times for you, frankly. Thanks so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate it, Cliff.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up for us, a whole year of nothing. Finger pointing and accusations from inside the Department of Justice about the January 6th investigation into Donald Trump. Was it a lost year?

And Meta glasses and trips to cases, targets. The new details this morning about the planning that went into that deadly truck attack in New Orleans, as President Biden prepares to visit the city today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:39]

BOLDUAN: Today, Congress is certifying the 2024 election results in the major step that paves the way for the president-elect, Donald Trump, to return to the White House. And Justice Department officials are taking stock of the now failed effort to prosecute Donald Trump for obstructing this same official process four years ago today.

With a final report on the investigation expected to be released soon, critics are starting to point the finger in a lot of directions, including at Attorney General Merrick Garland and decisions he made after the insurrection and - about the investigation.

Let's get over to CNN's Evan Perez. He's got more on this exclusive report.

Tell us what you've learned.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, you know, the - what critics would call the lost year inside the Justice Department, they say that it was something they had to do. They had to spend a lot of time looking into every single possible corner to see whether there was more evidence to tie Donald Trump to the - to the violence we saw that day. One of the things they did find was, there was this tip that developed in about June of 2021 that seemed to indicate that there was some kind of meeting between Trump or someone very close to him and members of the Proud Boys. These are the people who were behind some of the worst violence on January 6th. And so they spent months looking into that.

They looked into the infamous Willard Room where people were trying to help overturn the election results. They also looked into possible financial ties. All of that took about a year. And so, when you heard from Attorney General Merrick Garland about a year later, on the anniversary of the - of the attack, here is the words he said that gave people hope about what this investigation was about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The actions we have taken thus far will not be our last. The Justice Department remains committed to holding all January 6th perpetrators at any level accountable under law, whether they were present that day or were otherwise criminally responsible for the assault on our democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: And when - what those words that the attorney general said really gave people hope that they - at least the critics of Donald Trump, they believed that he was, in the end, going to be held accountable. Kate, what people didn't realize, of course, was that there was a calendar that was expiring, and expired very rapidly, especially when Donald Trump became the inevitable nominee for the Republican Party. You know, one critic I talked to, someone who was involved in the investigation early on, said they wasted time. They were not strategic. It was a whole year of nothing. And they said what - what the investigation ended up doing was boosting Trump during that - during that primary, the Republican primary.

Of course, for Justice Department officials, they believe they had to do all of these things, and that this was always going to take about four to five years. And, of course, Donald Trump got the help of the Supreme Court, which ate up a huge part of that calendar.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, the Supreme Court on that one did eat up a huge part of the calendar. And also you're talking about like two entities working on very different calendars, but it is what it is.

PEREZ: Right.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you, Evan. Great reporting. Thank you so much.

PEREZ: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: John. Hello.

BERMAN: Hello. Good morning to you.

BOLDUAN: Harry, hello to you.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Hello. Shalom.

BERMAN: So, President Biden has an op-ed out this morning basically saying that he hopes people don't memory hole what happened on January 6th four years ago, but is that an uphill battle?

[08:40:08]

You know who's here? You saw him. Senior data reporter Harry Enten.

ENTEN: Hello.

BERMAN: Nice to see you, sir.

ENTEN: Nice to see you.

BERMAN: Congratulations on the Bills.

ENTEN: Doing something.

BERMAN: Doing the one thing they shouldn't do, which was lose yesterday.

Anyway, views on Donald Trump and his responsibility for January 6th have changed, including how people feel he should be perceived politically, yes?

ENTEN: Yes, I think that's exactly right. You know, I think if you go back, you know, four years ago, right, Trump's role on January 6, 2021, should make him ineligible to be president. The clear majority of voters said yes, 56 percent - 56 percent. And that was including removal from office.

But, of course, Donald Trump won the presidency. And part of the reason why was because of views on Trump completely shifted, including Trump's role on January 6, 2021, should make him ineligible for the presidency. By 2023, 2024, it was just 47 percent. So, we saw this drop of about nine points. And that, of course, is all the difference in the world, going from a majority to short of a majority. And, of course, Donald Trump won the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of the other 53 percent who did not believe that his role on January 6th would make him ineligible for the presidency.

BERMAN: Yes, still a big number, but not enough, right?

ENTEN: Correct. This nine-point shift was tremendous.

BERMAN: All right, let's talk about the why behind it, Harry.

ENTEN: Yes, why.

All right, so, part of the reason why is, OK, was Trump greatly responsible for the attack on the Capitol? You go back to January 2021, it was 48 percent. By the time of December of 2023, look at that, again, a clear shift down to 37 percent. This is an 11-point drop. Very much mirroring that drop that we saw that that folks said that, of course, would make him ineligible for the presidency. So, that is part of the reason why, right? Folks - fewer folks thought he was responsible - greatly responsible for what happened on January 6th.

But it's not just that. It's that people, simply put, didn't care as much about the attack on the Capitol. Look at this, January 6th is the biggest - is your biggest memory of Trump's first term in office. By the time of 2024, look at this, look at this, it was just 5 percent. Just 5 percent of Americans. And among Republicans, it was just 2 percent.

So, the bottom line is, fewer Americans faulted Donald Trump or thought he was greatly responsible for the January 6th attack. And more than that, as it went into the rear-view mirror, far fewer folks thought that it was their number one memory.

BERMAN: Yes, this is an extraordinary number given that President Biden, when he was still in the election, was really putting this as his main message (ph).

ENTEN: Didn't matter.

BERMAN: Never really was registering.

All right, how about views of the results of the 2020 election this four years later?

ENTEN: Yes, you know, it - this, I think, says everything, right, because part of the reason those folks attacked the Capitol was because they thought, incorrectly, that the 2020 election results, in fact, did not reflect the view of the voters. Votes were cast and counted accurately. GOP voters after a given election, just 31 percent - just 31 percent thought that about the 2020 election. Look at this. It turns out when you win an election, far more Republicans thought that the votes were cast and counted accurately, 94 percent. That is a 63-point jump, John. And that, of course, is why I think today will be mostly just business as normal.

BERMAN: Counting the votes, which is Congress' actual constitutional role.

ENTEN: You got it. Correct.

BERMAN: Harry Enten, thank you very much.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, joining us now to discuss, CNN political commentators Alyssa Farah Griffin and S.E. Cupp.

All right, what a difference four years makes. We're seeing this snow being the problem as opposed to an insurrection. I do want to take us back, just for a second, because, clearly, people have forgotten what happened, to what Republicans said after the January 6th attack.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): All I can say is, count me out. Enough is enough.

SEN. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): There's no question, none, that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Former President Trump, now President-elect Trump, is now going to be taking office again. What explains this turn of events, S.E.?

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think those polls that we just show really tell the tale. Most Americans had bigger things on their mind than a broken -- the potential of a broken democracy. That weighed heavily on my mind and your mind and your mind. We had that luxury, right? My bills are paid. Opioids are not ravaging my, you know, little town. We had the luxury of worrying about those very important things I think most people didn't. And most people were worried about crime, the economy, and immigration. And they were very clear in all of the polls that those were the things driving them to the polls.

[08:45:01]

And I think what Biden and Democrats did was kind of ignore those and think that other things, like the insurrection, like democracy, were going to outweigh those. And they just didn't. That's why we're here.

SIDNER: Alyssa, do you think, though, that the - the right-wing sort of media landscape also played a big role in this? Because over time you started seeing people say, it wasn't that violent. Donald Trump himself keeps saying it was a day of love, right?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There's no question there was a white washing of January 6th. But I kind of put the onus on elected Republicans. You just played those clips. We all saw it the same way on January 7th. That's just a reality. The party was ready to move on. But that changed because the public slowly started to say, you know what, we liked the Trump days. The Republican public, I should say. And there was this feeling of sort of nostalgia for when he was in office. There was a media ecosystem that I think boosted it, and I think did share some myths and untruths about the events of that day.

But I want to say one thing, because I was - I was - left in December but was around - around January 6th.

SIDNER: Right.

GRIFFIN: And many of us were arguing, when Pence was getting this pressure campaign to not certify the election, what if Kamala Harris, in four years, didn't certify the election? The x- factor, Kamala Harris, like Mike Pence, and Al Gore before her, is going to do her constitutional duty and certify the election. Not do what was politically more beneficial to her or what she wanted to do.

And I think it underscores what a singular figure Donald Trump is in American politics. That he is the only person who would have asked for this to happen, yet the public is still with him. And to S.E.'s point, because, at the end of the day, the cost of living and feeling safe in your own home is more important day to day than American democracy. CUPP: Yes, Joe Biden made a lot of mistakes. Messaging was one.

Telling people that the economy was great and migrant, you know, the migrant crisis wasn't real and their cities were safe. Those were mistakes. And he let his ego get in the way in the end.

However, there's one thing he didn't do. He never encouraged his supporters to go and march on the Capitol, to go and break the system, to go and break democracy, to go and break the law just so he could stay in power. His legacy isn't going to be great or as great as I imagine he wanted it to be leaving office, but that's one ding he will not have.

SIDNER: I do want to ask about that because there are many, many, many, many different people who, I think it's up to more than 1,500, who have been convicted. Many of them have pled guilty. And Trump says, on his first day, that he is going to pardon the January 6th attackers. What do you make of that? And do you believe that that is exactly what he's going to do?

CUPP: I don't know that that's what he's going to do. He talks a big game. And sometimes he follows through with it. Sometimes we really have to believe him when he's promising to do something. But other times there's a political rhetoric and a theater to it. I don't know.

But I can tell you, I interviewed hundreds, maybe thousands of voters leading up to this election in all seven swing states. Not one of them told me they were going to the polls to vote for Donald Trump to pardon the January 6th insurrectionists. Republicans and Trump have to remember why they're there. Those three very specific reasons, economy, immigration, and crime, period. Don't do the other stuff. Forget ending birthright citizenship. These are distractions. No one cared. Remember why you're there.

SIDNER: Just quickly, those things that you just mentioned, Donald Trump wants in one big bill. One big, I think he called it beautiful bill. What are the chances that something like that, with all of the things in it, including raising the debt ceiling, passes?

GRIFFIN: Incredibly difficult. The way we got the tax cut - Trump tax cuts through was through reconciliation - budget reconciliation. There's very specific parameters for what actually qualifies. So, thinking you're going to do energy, a border security package, it's a pipe dream. I would imagine Congress may introduce it and eventually break it up piecemeal, but that isn't the way to do it. These are vastly different issues that I think should be considered on their own merits. And I think he's going to have to wake up to the reality it's a really busy and difficult legislative period ahead, but he does have the votes to get these things through, through budget reconciliation.

SIDNER: And a very tight House as well. So, things will get interesting.

Thank you to the both of you and Happy New Year.

CUPP: You too.

SIDNER: I'm so glad to see your smiling faces on this January 6th.

CUPP: For now.

SIDNER: For now.

All right, over to you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much.

New information this morning on the deadly New Year's Day terror attack in New Orleans. The FBI now saying that the attacker visited New Orleans twice shortly before the attack and used a pair of Meta smart glasses to record video as he cased the site he would eventually target.

They also say that they're now investigating his trips to Egypt and Canada in 2023 to dig into any possible ties to the attack.

Now, later today, President Biden and First Lady Jill Biden will be headed there, to New Orleans, in what could very well be his, you know - a last trip - a last trip for President Biden in this role of consoler in chief.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is at the White House for us with much more on that.

Arlette, what are you hearing about Biden heading there today?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, President Biden is hoping to offer some solace and comfort to the families of the victims of the New Year's Day attack as they are grieving in this time.

[08:50:09]

President Biden and First Lady Jill Biden will travel down to New Orleans a bit later this afternoon. They're expected to spend about five and a half hours on the ground there where they will meet with local officials but also meet face-to-face with some of the families of those victims.

President Biden, in the days after the New Year's Day attack, said that he had spoken by phone with some of the families. But this will give him an opportunity to mourn with them in person.

So much of the president's focus in the days after the attack was working with the intelligence community, trying to learn more about the motives behind this incident, and also ensuring that the federal resources were available there for the investigation.

But now he is turning to the role in comforter in chief as there were 14 families who lost their loved ones on New Year's Day during that terror attack.

Now, President Biden, yesterday, spoke to reporters here at the White House very briefly about the message that he is hoping to convey to these families when he meets with them in person. Here's that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's nothing you can really say to somebody who's had such a tragic loss.

About they just have to hang on to each other. There will come a day when they think of their loved one and they'll smile before a tear comes to their eye. That's when they know they're going to make it, but it takes time. They just got to hang on. They got to hang on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now, this could be one of the final moments we see Biden really step into that role of consoler in chief, a role that he's taken on time and time again in the face of senseless tragedy. Of course, he often approaches this from a very personal perspective, given his own history with loss. Having lost his daughter - baby daughter and wife in a car accident just after he was elected to the Senate, And then in 2015 losing his son, Beau Biden, to brain cancer.

A bit later in the week Biden will also deliver a eulogy for former President Jimmy Carter, another moment where that consoler in chief role will be in stark display.

BOLDUAN: Arlette, thank you so much. Arlette Saenz from the White House for us.

John.

BERMAN: All right, you see this behind me? Can you make that out? That's actually Cincinnati. Cincinnati, where are you? A huge winter storm is hitting the country. We have delays, travel disruptions, freezing temperatures. More than 60 million Americans are under alerts nationwide. We have the latest forecast.

And did you know they say that the year's first tuna brings good luck? This year it should be a lot of luck. An enormous blue fin tuna, as large as a motorcycle. We're going to investigate way we keep saying that. Why it's as big as a motorcycle. It just sold for more than $1 million.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:57:16]

SIDNER: New this morning, CNN has learned incoming First Lady Melania Trump will be the focus of a new documentary, giving audiences a rare window into the life of one of politics most notoriously private people.

CNN's Betsy Klein has more from Washington.

This shows a lot of things, including tech giants sort of bending the knee to Donald Trump. Tell me what you know. BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Well, Sara, we're

learning that Melania Trump will be the subject of a new documentary coming to Amazon Prime Video this year, giving a rare and behind the scenes look at one of President-elect Trump's most trusted but also notoriously guarded advisors. An Amazon spokesperson tells our colleague Eliabeth Wagmeister in a statement, quote, "Prime Video will be sharing more details on the project as filming progresses and release plans are finalized. We are excited to share this truly unique story with our millions of customers around the world."

Now, this is a really notable move from Amazon. As you recall, Donald Trump was once a reality star but has essentially been a pariah in Hollywood since he entered politics back in 2015. So, this really underscores that Amazon recognizes his popularity among many Americans, particularly after his reelection in November, and is looking to capitalize on that.

And to put a finer point on it, this documentary began filming in December, one month after Trump's win. It will be released in both theaters and on streaming in a few months after Trump has taken office.

And, of course, this comes after Amazon chief Jeff Bezos met with Trump at his Mar-a-Lago club and has announced he would donate $1 million to Trump's inaugural fund.

Now, Melania Trump is serving as executive producer. This means that the documentary is being made with her full participation and editorial control. And it will be directed by Brett Rattner, which is the filmmaker's first major project since 2017. You might recall he was accused of sexual misconduct by numerous women and has denied those allegations.

Now, as we've reported, Melania Trump is not expected to return to Washington full time when her husband takes office just about two weeks from now. She is likely to spend most of her time between New York and Palm Beach. But we do expect her to be present for major events and develop her own platform and priorities as first lady.

Back to you, Sara.

SIDNER: A very unusual move for a first lady.

Betsy Klein, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, President Biden moved to permanently ban offshore drilling in 625 million acres of ocean. We're talking about areas along the East Coast, the Gulf of Mexico, the coast of Washington, Oregon, and California, and portions of Alaska's Northern Bearing Sea. And the way this ban is structured, Donald Trump would have to get Congress to act on a reversal.

So, Colorado police got some unexpected help while pursuing a stolen car in a high-speed chase. This happened not that far from Denver. You know who stepped in to help? Maybe we'll see it. Snowplows.

[09:00:01]

Snowplows came to help. Three snowplows blocked the suspect by shutting down I-70. The I-70 highway.