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Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) On Trump's Push For Quick Passage Of "One Powerful Bill"; DHS Upgrades Mardis Gras To Highest Potential Threat; Meta To Make Major Changes To Moderation Policies, Including Removing Fact-Checkers. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 07, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: President-elect Donald Trump says he wants to make Greenland great again -- i.e., annexed. And now his son Don Jr. is curiously heading to the Danish territory today. For weeks now Trump has been saying the U.S. should control Greenland and it was an idea that he's pushed since his first administration.

On Truth Social yesterday Trump posted in part, "Greenland is an incredible place, and the people will benefit tremendously if and when it becomes part of our nation."

CNN's Steve Contorno joining us now. Steve, why?

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Sara, it's a good question because we are just two weeks until Donald Trump takes office, and he has laid out such an ambitious domestic agenda.

There is so much going on abroad and yet he continues to push this idea that the U.S. should acquire Greenland, yesterday actually posting on Truth Social a video supposedly showing a man from Greenland putting on a "Make America Great Again" Hat. And also writing, "The people will benefit tremendously if and when it becomes part of our nation. We will protect it and cherish it."

He also continued to push this idea that Canada could become the 51st state. This idea -- obviously, he has been needling Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau with this proposal for weeks now.

And now that Trudeau is stepping aside as prime minister, he used it as an occasion to bring this up again, claiming that if it goes through Canada won't have any tariffs, taxes will go down, and the U.S. will protect it from Russia and China, Sara.

SIDNER: That is a lot of promises there, Steve.

Trump also laying the groundwork here to blame President Biden for any potential shortcomings in his administration. What's he saying?

CONTORNO: Well, coming out of the election there was actually some moments of cordialness between Trump and Biden and the transition seemed to be going smoothly. But in the past 48 hours we have seen Donald Trump increasingly lash

out against Biden for some of his recent moves, posting on Truth Social criticism of the ongoing questions around Jack Smith's work as special counsel. Also some of the moves by Biden to block offshore drilling off the coast in the Pacific and the Atlantic.

And then saying this yesterday during a radio appearance on Hugh Hewitt's show.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: They'll do everything they can to make it as difficult as possible. You know, they talk about a transition. They're always saying oh no, we want to have a smooth transition from party to party, you know, of government. Well, they're making it really difficult. They're throwing everything they can in the way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: Now I should point out that Donald Trump's incoming chief of staff Susie Wiles actually gave an interview where she said that she has had a positive relation and working well with the -- her predecessor coming in.

But clearly, in this final couple of weeks here some animosity brewing between Trump and Biden over the transition.

SIDNER: OK, Steve Contorno. Thank you so much from a windy West Palm Beach. Appreciate it -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: With us now is the Democratic congressman from South Carolina, James Clyburn. Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

Donald Trump continues to say essentially that he wants to annex Greenland -- and I know that's not part of your district, at least not yet.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC) (via Skype): (Laughing).

BERMAN: But what does this look like to you?

CLYBURN: Well, thank you very much. It feels like it today.

But it is just a distraction. Donald Trump came up with that in his last term and I thought then it was more of a distraction than anything else, and I think that's what's going on here again.

You've got to watch this man's actions and listen to him as well. And when he is attempting to do things on the domestic front you might try to keep your attention as far away from the country as he possibly can, and I don't know if you can get any further away than Greenland. So we'll have to see.

BERMAN: So Congressman, the incoming president is discussing how he wants to get his legislative agenda through. And at least right now he's suggesting one giant bill that would get through the House and the Senate that would deal with issues at the border, and tax cuts, and tariffs -- all kinds of things.

I don't think anyone on Earth right now has as much experience as you do in getting bills through Congress. How successful do you think this one giant bill idea could be?

CLYBURN: Well, it seems to me it would be a very, very difficult row to hoe. He is talking about doing all of that under reconciliation.

And I think the parliamentarian in the Senate should take a hard look at whether or not they're trying to camouflage the program stuff on the budget reconciliation. That to me is what the danger here is. And whether or not parliamentary that can be done, I don't know.

[07:35:15]

But I do believe it would be a very dangerous thing to do to load up a reconciliation bill, which is supposed to focus on budget matters, with all kinds of policy considerations. This may or may not go over well with the majority of the American people.

So I think that -- I don't blame him for trying but I would blame us if we do not step up and stop this from happening.

BERMAN: So one of the things that's been floated out there is that Donald Trump seems to want to get away -- sorry, get rid of completely the debt ceiling. The idea that there is this debt limit that needs to be raised every so often -- to just get rid of it.

How would you feel about that? Would that be something you could support?

CLYBURN: Well, I'm smiling now because I've been advocating that now for 20 years or maybe even more. I do believe that we are the only country -- at least developed country on Earth that is still dealing with this debt ceiling business. We should do away with it altogether. That may be the only area that I really agree with Donald Trump on. I do believe we should get rid of it.

BERMAN: Interesting -- the Trump-Clyburn effort to get rid of the debt ceiling altogether.

CLYBURN: (Laughing).

BERMAN: Congressman, you heard -- I don't know if you heard our report before, but Donald Trump is saying that President Biden is trying to sabotage the transition as it were. And you'll remember, of course, four years ago Donald Trump didn't even participate in a transition of power really from the Trump administration to the Biden administration.

So how do you feel about that charge?

CLYBURN: Well, once again, Donald Trump is transferring to others that which he is often guilty of.

It's not even in Joe Biden's personality at all to do anything like that. Joe Biden believes in this country. He believes in the American people. And he is going to everything he possibly can, and he has done that, to make sure that the American people get treated in the way this country looks for them to be treated. So he is not going to sabotage anything.

Is he disappointed over the results? Yes. So am I. I will not do anything.

And I think you saw yesterday in this administration -- you saw the vice president presiding over her own defeat with elegance and with the kind of approach that makes the American people proud.

She is not going to do anything. Joe Biden is not going to do anything to sabotage. And he is just making that up. That is what he sees in himself and transfers to others.

BERMAN: Congressman Jim Clyburn from South Carolina. Thanks so much for being with us this morning. I appreciate your time, sir -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: There's a new warning now out about forever chemicals in our water. Scientists saying those dangerous chemicals may be contaminating the drinking water of 23 million Americans. And they're also pinpointing what they've -- what they've suspected as a major source of that contamination, prescription drugs.

CNN's Meg Tirrell has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MEG TIRRELL CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So, forever chemicals are this group of chemicals known as PFAS and they've been around for decades. They're manmade chemicals that have been used in all sorts of things because they have a lot of really great properties like making your cookware nonstick or making your clothing water-repellant, for example.

Unfortunately, scientists then discovered that these things really don't break down in the environment and they can accumulate over time. And they've increasingly been associated with health risks, including certain cancers, problems during pregnancy, decreasing our immune response to vaccines, and other health issues.

And so we knew that PFAS already are in our drinking water and the EPA has started to regulate this more closely. This new study though looks at PFAS in wastewater treatment plants and increasingly they say that is going to be something that we need to think about for drinking water. That essentially wastewater will be treated and then used as drinking water as we go through droughts and through climate change, and things like that.

And so this new study looked at the levels of PFAS and associated chemicals in wastewater treatment plants and they found that even with triple filtration sometimes that these plants aren't able to get all the PFAS and these chemicals out of the water. And that they estimate that about 23 million Americans may be depending on water sources that are contaminated with these chemicals at levels higher than is recommended.

[07:40:08]

And these chemicals can be coming from things, including pharmaceuticals. They said a lot of very common drugs actually have these sort of chemical properties. And so as people take these and they end up in wastewater that is one contributing source.

And so what they recommend is that we either need to get better at stopping the PFAS from going into the water or better at filtering them out, or both preferably, as we learn more about how they're affecting our health.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: All right. Ahead, New Orleans elevates its threat level to the highest point for Mardi Gras. What that means for security as the city continues to mourn the victims of the terrorist attack there.

And this just in. Facebook announcing its major change in its moderation policies. Say goodbye to fact-checking.

Those stories ahead.

(COMMERCIAL)

[07:45:20

SIDNER: Federal officials have announced new plans for heightened security in New Orleans. Mardi Gras has been upgraded to the highest security classification for special events. The Super Bowl already carried that classification.

And new details about why proper sidewalk barriers weren't in place on New Year's Eve. New Orleans' former police chief on the bollards installed on his watch back in 2017.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL HARRISON, FORMER NEW ORLEANS POLICE CHIEF: Before I left there were issues of the beads getting caught in the grooves. We were talking about the frequency of repairs that have to be made. However, we were always reinforcing that with large utility trucks -- dump trucks, trash trucks, tow trucks, fire engines. And so we always reinforced it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Officials say that barrier system was apparently being replaced at the time of the attack.

Joining me now, Andrew McCabe, CNN senior law enforcement analyst. New York has -- sorry, New Orleans has received the tier one status,

which is the highest destination for event security by the Department of Homeland Security.

What will that mean?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, FORMER DEPUTY DIRECTOR, FBI: Well Sara, it's a process by which a state or city that's hosting an event submits an application essentially to DHS. They review all aspects of the event -- the likely attendees, the significance of the event nationally or internationally -- and they rank it in terms of the seriousness. And so tier level one is the highest.

Mardi Gras has always been a level two in the past and this year it's been elevated to a level one. And it simply means they'll get additional resources from the federal government to help secure the city for the event. And those resources will include things like bomb detection teams that might not have been allocated to the event beforehand. Detection dogs. They get cybersecurity review. All sorts of really hands-on assistance and, of course, help in actually preparing their security plan for the event.

So all good things for the city of New Orleans -- something New Orleans has wanted for the last couple of years.

SIDNER: You have said that Mardi Gras is particularly difficult in the space to control what is going on there. Why is that?

MCCABE: So, you know, security at special events really depends on very simple things that are sometimes overlooked. The primary one for me Sara is always access. So these large events where you have massive crowds gathering in places where you cannot control access to the space really raises the prospect of targeting by malicious groups, terror groups, criminal groups, what have you.

The reason is you can't -- you can't send everyone who is going to attend through a magnetometer. You can't check everyone's backpack or bags that are brought to the space. Think about the coolers that were used to deploy the IEDs in this attack. That's the sort of thing that never would have made its way into a controlled space event.

So that's what you have in the French Quarter. It's a, what, one, maybe 1 1/2-mile-square area. It's a collection of small streets. You have a ton of traffic that goes through there on a daily basis with vendors and people supplying the businesses. So it's a very chaotic space and one that's very hard to control.

SIDNER: I -- do -- you will know the answer to this question because I, myself, cannot remember a time where there was an attack and then a couple of weeks later there was another major attack.

I mean, how unusual would that be? Because often, the people that are planning on these attacks, they do it because people aren't prepared. Cities aren't ready. What do you make of that? MCCABE: Yeah, that's absolutely right. You know, sometimes an attack venue is chosen because it's off the radar and it won't be suspected. But other times, like apparently here in New Orleans, we -- you know, we can certainly guess that this night was chosen by the attacker because of the crowd that would be there. They're looking to create as many casualties as possible.

But it's exceedingly rare that one city would have several of these events in such a close proximity in time. So that really should even elevate it, as if it wasn't already -- elevate the security concerns on the part of the local and state officials because New Orleans I think is now probably thought of as a potential terrorist target in ways that it wasn't before this attack.

[07:50:00]

And terrorist -- some terrorist organizations, some terrorist- motivated individuals are driven by acts that they find to be symbolic. So the opportunity to come back to New Orleans in such a short period of time and to strike again is one that the state and local police, and federal officials should be thinking hard about in the runup to these other events.

SIDNER: See, I knew I should ask you that question because you thought about it very differently and that is a really good point.

Andrew McCabe, that's why you're the guy and I'm just here asking the questions. Appreciate it. Thank you so much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Also new this morning at least 95 people are dead after a powerful earthquake hit a remote region of Tibet today. The 7.1- magnitude quake also wounded at least 130 people. More than 1,000 homes are reportedly destroyed and there have been multiple aftershocks. Chinese President Xi Jinping called on officials to make an all-out effort now to find and rescue survivors.

Also, Rudy Guiliani is pushing back after a federal judge held him in contempt Monday. According to this judge, the former New York mayor and Trump ally has failed to turn over a single dollar of the $148 million judgment that he must pay to two former Georgia election workers that he defamed.

Now, on Monday, Guiliani testified he could not find some of the property he's been told to turn over. Unable to find things like a Joe DiMaggio jersey. He also admitted he's holding on to his grandfather's watch. Giuliani claims that the court's request is "enormously burdensome."

Later this month Guiliani is going to trial over whether he can keep his $3 million Florida condo -- John.

BERMAN: All right, breaking news. Just moments ago Facebook announced it is getting rid of fact-checkers and also making major changes to what content is allowed. This is just the latest move as Facebook's parent company Meta and founder Mark Zuckerberg work to very publicly win favor with Donald Trump. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, FACEBOOK: The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech. So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.

More specifically, here's what we're going to do. First, we're going to get rid of fact-checkers and replace them with community notes similar to X starting in the U.S. We tried in good faith to address those concerns without becoming the arbiters of truth. But the fact- checkers have just been too politically biased and have destroyed more trust than they've created, especially in the U.S.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: Wow.

BERMAN: Getting rid of fact-checkers.

And Clare Duffy -- you can see here right here -- is here with us now. So what's going on here?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yeah, John, this is a major reversal. Let's not forget that the reason that Facebook and Meta introduced this third-party fact-checking system in the first place was because it was accused of allowing foreign actors to spread disinformation and discord around American political elections.

Now the company is saying it is getting rid of those third-party fact- checkers and will introduce this system called "community notes," which is something that Elon Musk has also rolled out on X. It lets users add user-generated context labels to post, but you're relying on users to do that and to bring in the information.

This was announced on "FOX & FRIENDS" by Joel Kaplan who is one of the company's top Republicans. Just last week we talked about he was elevated to the company's top policy job.

Here's how he described the system.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOEL KAPLAN, CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS OFFICER, META: And so, somebody can write a note and then the way it works is different people on the platform can sort of vote on that note. And if you get people who usually disagree, who all say yeah, that sounds right, then that note gets put on the -- on the post and people see it.

X has been doing it for a while and we think it's working really well, and we're going to adopt that system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DUFFY: Meta also was announcing a number of other changes to its moderation practices. It's going to scale back some of the automatic filters that catch bad content. It says it will keep that for things like terrorism, child sexual exploitation. But for lower severity violations it's going to ask users to report those before it evaluates them.

The company is also moving one of its key safety teams from California to Texas. Again, an effort to sort of appeal to perhaps users in that part of the country.

And Zuckerberg said that this is going to allow more bad things to make it onto the platform -- he acknowledged that -- but he said it will help with free expression.

BERMAN: A couple of points I want to make here. Number one, Joel Kaplan announced that on Fox News. Again, everything very public -- unsubtle I think what Meta is doing here. And I think they would perhaps admit to that. I don't think they would run away from that.

And The New York Times reporting that the Trump administration got a heads up about this policy shift beforehand.

So again, it seems to be part of this larger, very public effort to curry favor.

DUFFY: Yeah. And Kaplan did -- he acknowledged that it was in part because of this change in administration that they are making these changes. He said that over the last four years the company feels like it's experienced pressure to crack down on more content and that the Trump administration offers them an opportunity to pull back a bit there. So he is acknowledging it.

[07:55:05]

I will note too the company announced yesterday that it's adding three new board members, including UFC CEO Dana White who we know is a Trump supporter. He was stumping for Trump on the campaign trail.

So it does feel like this broader shift at the company.

BERMAN: Yeah, completely unsubtle.

All right, Clare Duffy. Thank you very much -- Sara.

SIDNER: Unsubtle, indeed.

All right. New this morning a son who reported is father to the FBI for being part of the Capitol insurrection does not want Donald Trump to let his father out of prison early. His mother is pushing for her husband to get a pardon from Trump.

They each spoke with CNN's Donie O'Sullivan and revealed the reality of a family that's been torn apart by the aftermath of January 6.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: If Trump pardons your dad what's your biggest fear?

JACKSON REFFITT, SON OF CONVICTED JANUARY 6 RIOTER: You know, just getting shot in the street. I don't know.

O'SULLIVAN: By your father?

J. REFFITT: By my father, by someone he knows. It's a bunch of people that I don't know, and I don't know their intent. So you want to help me with this?

O'SULLIVAN: Sure.

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): This is Jackson Reffitt.

O'SULLIVAN: Are you going to take this in here?

J. REFFITT: Yes, please.

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): He says he's moving out of his rental home and into hiding for his own safety.

J. REFFITT: I bought a gun because I got so paranoid, and I'm moving out because I'm scared.

O'SULLIVAN: Do you know how to fire a gun?

J. REFFITT: Yeah, I've been shooting it.

O'SULLIVAN: Do you have it on you right now?

J. REFFITT: Yeah. I have to wear it around the house kind of often just to get used to how it feels.

O'SULLIVAN: OK.

J. REFFITT: But I'm part of that --

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): Jackson's dad is Guy Reffitt who is a member of the Texas Three Percenters militia.

GUY REFFITT, JACKSON REFFITT'S FATHER: And I just kept going "Go forward! Go forward!" I couldn't even see, bro.

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): He's serving a more than seven-year sentence for his role in the January 6 Capitol attack. Reffitt was convicted of five felonies, including carrying a firearm on Capitol grounds.

O'SULLIVAN: So you reported your dad to the FBI?

J. REFFITT: Yes.

O'SULLIVAN: That's what got him arrested basically.

J. REFFITT: More or less, yeah.

O'SULLIVAN: What effect has that had on your family? J. REFFITT: Uh, it's destroyed it.

O'SULLIVAN: Was there a moment where you thought I know my dad's done all this stuff, but I don't want to report him?

J. REFFITT: Uh, yeah. I still feel horrible, of course. Like, I can't get over it, but I don't regret it.

O'SULLIVAN: When was the last time you spoke to your dad?

J. REFFITT: Five months ago, and it was the first time I talked to him. And it was just a crying fest for the first 10 minutes and that was great. And then I brought up the fact that I'm worried about him getting out and he was almost puzzled. You know, like he was confused as to why I thought that.

O'SULLIVAN: Are you overreacting?

J. REFFITT: No. I get death threats daily -- hourly at this point.

NICOLE REFFITT, JACKSON REFFITT'S MOTHER: Unbeknownst to us it was our 18-year-old son who turned his dad in to the FBI.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

N. REFFITT: My --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did he do it?

N. REFFITT: My son is a declared Democratic socialist.

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): Jackson's mom Nicole has become one of the most prominent people campaigning for the release of people serving time for January 6.

N. REFFITT: Please lift up each and every one of our J-sixers. Christopher Alberts, Terry --

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): Nicole left Texas and moved to Washington, D.C. where she takes part in a nightly vigil held here outside the city's jail.

N. REFFITT: Marcus Nally (PH).

O'SULLIVAN: You've been coming here for hundreds of nights.

N. REFFITT: Almost 900.

O'SULLIVAN: Why?

N. REFFITT: You know, after I saw what happened to my husband, I could not sit on my hands at home anymore.

O'SULLIVAN: Do you wish Guy didn't come here on January 6?

N. REFFITT: No. I'm glad he stood up for something. O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): Every night, January 6 prisoners from around the country call into the vigil --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Continue hold the line that brings all --

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): -- including Guy Reffitt who recently called in to wish Nicole a happy birthday.

G. REFFITT: Happy birthday. Sorry that I couldn't get you something better than 80 months, but you know there (bleep).

O'SULLIVAN: Are you confident that Trump will let your husbands walk free?

N. REFFITT: I feel like Trump is a man of his word.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's the next step for your family?

N. REFFITT: To continue to fight together.

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): Nicole is sometimes joined in D.C. by her two daughters, Jackson's sisters, who have been caught in the middle of a divided family.

SARAH REFFITT, JACKSON REFFITT'S SISTER: That is not shown of my father.

PEYTON REFFITT, JACKSON REFFITT'S SISTER: We have nothing against Jackson. Jackson's my brother.

S. REFFITT: No, we have not.

P. REFFITT: I love him. I love him no more than I love my father. I love my father. I love my family.

N. REFFITT: From the beginning the girls and I have received hundreds of mailed death threats.

O'SULLIVAN: Hmm.

N. REFFITT: I'm not talking about online things; I'm talking about rape to my daughters, death to my husband, death to me.

O'SULLIVAN: You don't think Jackson has to be afraid of his dad?

N. REFFITT: No.

O'SULLLIVAN: Yeah.

N. REFFITT: I think that's been put on the record several times.

O'SULLIVAN: So why is Jackson so afraid?

N. REFFITT: I just think that it's the same thing where people think this red hat on my head is scary and dangerous. It's that same mentality. Jackson comes from a lot of love and there's a lot of love left to be given.

And justice for all.

J. REFFITT: I mean, I love my mom. Of course, I love her.

O'SULLIVAN: Do you love your dad?

J. REFFITT: Of course, I love my dad. I love my dad, but I can't -- I can't feel safe around him. I hate having to put myself in this situation to feel some sort of comfort after the election and what's going to happen when my dad gets pardoned. When all these hundreds of people get pardoned, and all these thousands of people get validated for their actions.