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President-Elect Trump Comments on U.S. Acquiring Greenland for National Security Purposes; Former Trump National Security Adviser John Bolton Interviewed on President-Elect Trump's Desire for Fealty among Administration Members. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 07, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JACKSON REFFITT, SON OF CONVICTED JANUARY 6 RIOTER: After the election and what's going to happen when my dad gets pardoned, when all these hundreds of people get pardoned, and all these thousands of people get validated for their actions, and I'm one of those people that they call a traitor. My dad once said, traitors get shot. So that's been ringing in my head for years and years and years.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: In a message from prison, Guy Reffitt said that "Jackson has never had anything to worry about from me, and he will never have anything to worry about from me, ever."

If your dad's watching this, what's your message to him?

REFFITT: That I love him and that I hope he gets better. And I hope I get better too. I hope I grow out of this paranoia right now. And that I really thought what I did was right. I thought I did what I did to protect him and my family and the people around him, and the people he could have hurt.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I only have eyes for Greenland -- President- elect Trump says he wants to annex Greenland. His son arrives there today. We've got new reporting on the plan here.

A horrific discovery inside the wheel-well of an airplane. Two bodies found after a flight from New York to Florida.

And a passenger trapped inside a self-driving taxi as it circles around a parking lot. Which level of hell is this?

I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: President-elect Donald Trump saying now is the time to make Greenland great again. He seems to be upping his push for U.S. control of the Danish territory, sending his son, Trump Junior, to visit there today. On Truth Social, Trump posted in part, "Greenland is an incredible place and the people will benefit tremendously if and when it becomes part of our nation." This fixation with Greenland started during his first term and will

now apparently be a focus of his second. CNN's David Chalian is joining us now. David, Don Junior's visit is not an official one. He's not an official with the Trump campaign in this capacity. But what's his -- what's his plan? What's this all about?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. Nor is Donald Trump president yet. We still have 13 days to go before he takes over the presidency. What they say is, is, as you know, you mentioned it was an item on the to do list that never got done in the first Trump administration. And Donald Trump shortly before Christmas talked about this again and started Truth Socialing. Denmark said that Greenland is not for sale. The prime minister of Greenland has said that they need to use this as a moment to fight for their independence, and that they are not for sale for anyone, but should think about how to govern themselves independently and who they trade with.

But this is Donald Trump, real estate developer, on display. I don't think we should spend a whole ton of time on this until we know that there's an actual plan in place, an offer, that there's a system set up, rather than just it being sort of a Donald Trump wish list item and bluster.

I will say the former president has called it a national security necessity for the United States to acquire Greenland. So it seems to me that would be a pretty big deal if he's unable to follow through with it, if indeed it is, in his mind, a national security necessity.

SIDNER: It's certainly not what he ran on. We should put that out there.

Trump also is attacking President Biden, which is not unusual, but he's vowing to undo, of course, all of his latest last minute executive actions. Talk to us a bit about what he's saying about Biden, something that his staff is not saying. They're not saying the same things.

CHALIAN: Yes, that is true, Sara. And it's a good point. I mean, yesterday, my ears perked up when I heard President-elect Trump on the radio with Hugh Hewitt. And in the context of the news we covered yesterday, that President Biden was putting in motion a ban on offshore drilling in the Atlantic and the Pacific. And in that context, he was asked about this. And that's when Trump started saying that this transition is not going so smoothly. They're trying to throw everything they possibly can to make it difficult.

We had not heard that before. Then a couple hours later, he went on Truth Social and sort of affirmed this point of view that they were trying to muck up, gum up the works before he got in office. You see the Truth Social there that Biden is doing everything possible to make the transition as difficult as possible.

[08:05:00]

Totally discordant from what his incoming chief of staff, Susie Wiles, had suggested in a published interview yesterday with "Axios," where she told "Axios's" Marc Caputo that the current chief of staff, Joe Biden, chief of staff Jeff Zients, has been really gracious and forthcoming, and hosted a dinner with all former White House chief of staff to sort of welcome her to the club and provide information and guidance on the state of things to make this a smooth transition.

So to my ears, what I heard is Donald Trump starting to sort of cede the ground and lay the groundwork that if things are not moving so quickly once he takes over, if he's not able to put sort of W's, wins up on the scoreboard right away, I bet you could imagine hell start finger-pointing towards Joe Biden.

SIDNER: Well, Republicans have the House and Senate. That will be a hard thing to do when he is finally in office. David Chalian thank you so much. Always appreciate you coming on. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And joining us right now is Ambassador John Bolton, who was the longest serving national security advisor in the first Trump administration. It's good to see you again, Ambassador. Thanks for coming on. About what David Chalian and Sara were just talking about, the incoming president saying that Biden is getting in the way of the transition, making it as difficult as possible. Do you think that's true?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER UNDER TRUMP: Well, I think what he's objecting to specifically is this effort to take federal lands out of the possibility of oil drilling. And that's a substantive policy disagreement which can be fixed in a Trump administration by simply reversing what Biden is doing.

The difficulties that I think are being experienced in the transition have a lot more to do with the Trump team's failure to sign up to the normal transition process, to get their transition people access in various departments, particularly, for example, the Defense Department, where my understanding is that things are way, way behind where they might -- where they should be with less than two weeks to go until the inauguration. And I think that's really worth investigating more, what is the state of play for people representing the Trump transition team and getting briefed on issues and substance in all the various different departments and agencies? My guess is they're pretty far behind everywhere, but as I say, particularly in the Defense Department. If that's not right, then let's hear about it.

BOLDUAN: Yes, it's a good point. And who is at fault, you're getting to maybe the source of the problem there.

Donald Trump sending his son on something of a scouting mission to Greenland. We'll just call it that until we hear it more. You dealt with Donald Trump's interest in buying Greenland when you were working in the White House. If the president elect is serious, do you think the way he is going about it makes it any more likely?

BOLTON: Well, I'm glad you asked the question that way. Honestly, I despair about having a serious conversation on this subject largely because of the way Trump is going about it. But for all those who chuckle and say, oh, Greenland, ha-ha-ha, let me just say, you're wrong, too. The security of Greenland is directly related to the security of the United States.

Now, how we go about that is a subject for discussion. There is a long history here. I won't go through it here. I should have written about it in my book, but the book was already too long for the publisher. But it's just worth repeating that there are serious issues here that that need to be addressed. They don't necessarily need to be addressed by the United States acquiring sovereignty over Greenland. There are a lot of ways to go about this. We looked at some of them when I was at the White House. There are probably more that can be done.

But I'll tell you this. The one way to screw this up is to keep talking about it publicly. Officials in Greenland are elected by the people. Officials in Denmark are elected by the people. You keep talking about buying them as if it's a real estate deal, you're hardening their positions. You're pushing them into a corner that will make it very difficult to achieve what is the real American national interest here, which is preserving the security of the North American landmass, and obviously, critically, the United States itself.

BOLDUAN: I think we just came up with the source material for your next opinion piece, which I actually want to get to. And in that context, I want to play for you what, something that Donald Trump told Hugh Hewitt yesterday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: In my first term, people were fighting me all the way. They were just fighting me. In this term, it's so different. I think -- I don't want to say people have given up, because that's not nice, but they recognize that we really do have that mandate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: I heard this and it reminds me of your new op-ed about Trump's obsession with loyalty. And just for everyone to read a bit of it, you write, "In fact, Mr. Trump really wants his appointees to display fealty, a medieval concept implying not mere loyalty, but submission."

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Are you warning the Senate here? I was thinking when I read this that your message here was to the senators who will be handling confirmation. Is there a way to stop appointees who, as you had described it, will carry out Donald Trump's orders blind to norms and standards or even legality?

BOLTON: Yes. Look, loyalty for most American citizens is a virtue. It's a positive thing. It's not loyalty that Trump wants. It's -- the people who sign up to serve in senior positions in the administration have to swear an oath of loyalty to the Constitution. That's what they're really there to defend, not loyalty, blind loyalty to the to the person in the office of the president.

But Trump, Trump doesn't have any basic philosophy he's looking for in his appointees. There's a real question whether he cares about competence. He just wants people who are going to salute and say, yes, sir, and go do what he wants without thinking of the consequences. And the irony here, not only is that bad for America, it's going to be bad for Trump. A president is not well served by people who are afraid to speak out, afraid to say, but, Mr. President, have you considered factors a, b and c, or Mr. President, have you looked at this option which may get you to the to the goal you're seeking in a better way than what you've just said?

He Trump may get fealty, but ultimately it will work out badly for him and particularly badly for the for the country. So if the Senate cares about that, it ought to look at whether these nominees are fit for office in terms of their views. I think in terms of opinions and policies, presidents are owed great deference. But the but the advise and consent powers, they're really on the question of character and fitness.

BOLDUAN: Ambassador John Bolton, thanks for coming in.

John?

BERMAN: All right, breaking overnight, two bodies found in the landing gear of a JetBlue flight in Florida. Florida, I should say.

And ick, norovirus surging across the United States. New details on what is behind this stomach bug and how you can avoid it.

And quote, "complicit in the rape of Britain," the new accusations launched by Elon Musk that have him in hot water with the U.K. government.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:53]

BERMAN: All right, breaking overnight, Donald Trump is pushing to block the release of Special Counsel Jack Smith's final report in the classified documents case.

His lawyers have now read a draft and this whole thing could be released within days, unless a judge steps in. CNN's senior legal analyst, Elie Honig is with us now.

Good morning, counselor. Talk to us about exactly what this final report from a special counsel is and what role it plays in special counsel investigations, and whether we are actually going to see it in a few days.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: So, John, if we think back a few years ago to the Robert Mueller report, that's essentially what this would be. The special counsel regulations under which Jack Smith is operating say that at the end of his investigation and we are there for Jack Smith, he must, it's mandatory, create a written report that lays out his findings.

Now, at that point, the report goes to the attorney general, who then may not must, but may release it to the public. Now, Merrick Garland, so far in his term, has immediately released special counsel reports to the public. He did that with the Robert Hur report about Joe Biden's classified documents. He did it with John Durham's report.

So, Donald Trump is taking really an unprecedented step here of trying to block the release of that report. Every time thus far in our recent history, where one of these reports has been written, it has, in fact gone over to Congress and then come out to the American public.

BERMAN: There are a couple of interesting legal nuances here when it comes to the classified documents case. Number one, Judge Aileen Cannon basically threw out this case because she ruled the appointment of a special counsel was unconstitutional on its face. So, could that impact the existence of a report?

HONIG: Yes, that's a fascinating question. I think that will be the argument that Donald Trump will make to Judge Cannon. But remember, she only has the classified documents case. There's a separate case in Washington, DC on the January 6th indictment. So, that argument is not going to apply.

But I do think he's going to argue, Donald Trump's team will argue the entire institution of special counsel is unconstitutional as Judge Cannon found and therefore you cannot release this report.

That will take us into unknown territory, because while there have been several challenges lodged against special counsel over the years in various cases, not just this one, they've all failed up until Judge Cannon. So, that could be the hook that he's trying to use here.

BERMAN: And one other little nuance here is that there are two other people charged and still charged in this case, Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira and their lawyer is basically arguing, look, you put out this report. This could prejudice the case against them.

HONIG: It's such an interesting wrinkle because they have a much stronger argument than Donald Trump does, because Donald Trump is out of this case. It's been dismissed against him. So the argument to him is you don't have any real stake in what comes out in this report.

But Nauta and De Oliveira, those are the two Mar-a-Lago employees who were charged along with Trump in the classified documents case, they are still defendants and they will say it wildly prejudices us and undermines our rights to have this long written tome come out that will talk about all the criminality we've engaged in.

Now, on the flip side of that, I would bet you, John Berman that by January 21st of this year, both Nauta and De Oliveira are recipients of pardons. But the report's got to come first, so we'll see.

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BERMAN: That's a very fair point. Look, one of Donald Trump's best friends over the last several years has been the clock, right? So how does the clock play here? If this report isn't released, if it's held up even days, could he somehow keep it from being released once he's president?

HONIG: Absolutely, he's got a very distinct line in the sand. Noon January 20th, when he takes that oath of office, he will then be in a position to install his own attorney general, whether Pam Bondi has been confirmed by then or not but he can take charge of DOJ and say, do not issue this report.

So, we are very much on the clock here. Donald Trump is trying again to draw things out. But if he can keep this thing locked up in the courts until noon on January 20th, then when he becomes president, he very much will be in a position to kill this report and make sure it does not come out.

BERMAN: All right, it will be a very interesting, what, 12 days on this front.

Elie Honig, I don't think I'm speaking out of school by saying you're actually writing a book on special counsels. So this is an area, you know, quite a bit about.

Looking forward to that read. All right -- Kate.

HONIG: First official plug. Thanks, John.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up for us, we have new details on growing concerns over bird flu. Now, the first human fatality in the United States from this virus. What we are learning about it.

And, it was quite a ride: A self-driving taxi trapping a rider inside as it goes in circles, literally and caught on video.

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BOLDUAN: The breaking news this morning, JetBlue says two bodies were discovered in the wheel well of one of its planes after it had landed in Florida. Now, this is just two weeks after another body was found in another plane. That one was United Airlines.

CNN's Nick Valencia is tracking this one for us. Hey, Nick, what are you learning about this?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good morning, Kate. How they got there and who they are -- all part of the investigation right now, happening this morning.

The Broward County Sheriff's Office sending us a release shortly -- a short time ago, saying that they arrived on the scene earlier this morning, along with the medical examiner to investigate this tragedy.

They say they will be conducting an autopsy to determine the cause of death. But this flight had originated, according to JetBlue, had departed from New York around 7:00 PM last night, had landed in Fort Lauderdale shortly after 11:00 PM when this discovery was made in the early morning hours during a post flight maintenance inspection. Now, you mentioned, Kate, this happens just two weeks after a body of a stowaway was found in a flight from Chicago's O'Hare Airport, bound for Maui. That same day on Christmas Eve, another stowaway found while the plane was taxiing at Seattle's Sea-Tac Airport.

And of course, many of us remember what happened Thanksgiving week, an un-ticketed passenger also at JFK's Airport, managing somehow to make it from JFK all the way to Paris before being discovered.

Now, the FAA tells us that stowaways often use the landing gear to hide in, not realizing just how, you know, small of a space there is once that landing gear retracts.

This investigation in Fort Lauderdale's airport currently underway to figure out who these individuals are and again, how they got there -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Nick, thank you so much. Clearly, much more to learn from this one, appreciate it -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, to discuss further, joining me now is CNN transportation analyst and former inspector general for the Department of Transportation, Mary Schiavo.

Thank you so much for being here. I guess the first question is, how does this happen? For us passengers, we know that pilots have to do all these checks before takeoff. And if there's one tiny thing wrong, we get stuck at the gate.

So are there inspections outside of the plane to check to see if there's any problem, for example, in the landing gear?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Absolutely.

Before the first flight of the day, of course, the pilots are due to do the walk around from the aircraft and before every flight they're supposed to, you know, do a shorter check of their aircraft. And of course, all of the checklists within the cockpit as well.

And the bigger question is, of course, you know, the reports say we're supposed to be on high alert for potential terrorism. Aviation is often the attack target of terrorist attacks. And yet, the airport on the tarmac is supposed to be covered by surveillance. We're supposed to have camera coverage, and everyone on that tarmac is supposed to have a background check and supposed to be an airline employee who's documented and known.

So, the fact that this keeps happening and people who are not, stowaways, the FAA did a report on stowaways in the wheel wells are not usually airport or airline employees and yet this keeps happening.

People are getting onto the airport property and getting into an aircraft, and it poses a huge security danger for the aircraft because these people were just apparently just trying to get some place, but it could have easily been someone attempting to attack aviation. SIDNER: How common is this, that someone is found in a wheel well? I'm asking because we've now seen two separate incidents within a couple of weeks of each other.

SCHIAVO: Well, you know, once again, the FAA has actually done a study. They haven't fixed the problem, but they've done a study.

From about 1947 to 2020, the FAA documented 128 cases worldwide of wheel well stowaways.

Now, over 75 percent died and back when they did the study, the most likely country for a wheel well stowaway was Cuba. And the reasons were, of course, illegal immigration or literally in some cases, just wanting to go visit relatives, reconnect with a mom, reconnect with friends, et cetera.

And of course, it's not likely airline or airport employees because they know that the wheel wells are very dangerous place. You can get crushed. You can die from hypothermia, you know, and the noise is horrendous. Even if you do survive, you might have long-term damage in a number of body parts.

But the issue that this has been done, and now, in the United States, done repeatedly, is a huge concern for aviation safety and security. And of course, there's almost always a very sad result for the person attempting to do this.

And by the way, almost all of them are male and under 30. So, obviously they realize it's a physical feat and they're going to have to crawl around the wheel well, but it is clearly an aviation security violation and a very serious one.

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