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Trump Issues Threats on Canada, Greenland, Panama Canal; Interview With Rep. Jim Himes (D-CT). Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 07, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's just a fascinating glimpse of his mind-set, the artificial line separating the United States and Canada.

No, that's an internationally recognized border, as is the sovereignty of Greenland, as is the treaty where Jimmy Carter signed over the Panama Canal, as is, when you pull out a map -- I use maps every now and then -- where it says the Gulf of Mexico. That's been there for a while.

Donald Trump thinks, if I want it to be, it shall be. It's just a fascinating glimpse at his mind-set. And in 13 days, he becomes president of the United States again, and we will watch how much -- again, she knows better than anybody at this table, a lot of what he says is for negotiating purposes and plus purposes to get some percentage of what he really says is what he wants.

But here it comes.

DANA BASH, CNN HOST: They say you should live in interesting times. These are those times.

Thank you all for getting us through that. I appreciate it. Thank you for watching INSIDE POLITICS.

"CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: Speaking his mind.

President-elect Donald Trump addresses reporters at Mar-a-Lago, talking everything from not ruling out using military force to take control of the Panama Canal in Greenland to plans to rename the Gulf of Mexico, as he received some good news on the legal front from a judge in Florida. The inauguration is only 13 days away.

And remembering the legacy of Jimmy Carter. The state funeral for our 39th president is this afternoon, honoring a man who knew how to -- quote -- "translate faith into action."

And a stunning announcement from the parent company of Facebook and Instagram -- Meta, I should say. Meta says fact-checkers are out, a move that CEO Mark Zuckerberg admits will lead to more harmful content on the platforms.

We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

I'm Pamela Brown in Washington with breaking news.

President-elect Donald Trump is amplifying his push for U.S. control of the Panama Canal and the Danish territory of Greenland. He also talked about Canada wanting to annex it. When it comes to Greenland and Panama, it sounds like he's not ruling out military force.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Can you assure the world that, as you try to get control of these areas, you are not going to use military or economic coercion?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: I can't assure you. You're talking about Panama and Greenland. No, I can't assure you on either of those two.

But I can say this, we need them for economic security. The Panama Canal was built for our military.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

TRUMP: I'm not going to commit to that, no. It might be that you will have to do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And when it comes to Canada, he said he was open to economic force.

So this was all during this news conference just a short time ago, where Trump spoke to reporters about this wide range of issues, including his idea of making Canada a U.S. state and renaming the Gulf of Mexico. And he outlined parts of his economic plan and ticked through a list of grievances, while railing against the legal cases against him.

I want to bring in Jeff Zeleny, who is live for us now on West Palm Beach, Florida, right near Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort.

I think, as a reporter listening to this, Jeff, it certainly stood out to me that Donald Trump would not rule out military force to take control of the Panama Canal and Greenland. But also when it comes to Canada, he had sort of what we thought was seemingly joking before, trying to belittle Justin Trudeau, saying Canada is the 51st state, but he seemed pretty serious in wanting to annex it and make it part of the U.S.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: He's definitely serious about that, Pamela.

Certainly a long list of headlines mixed in with some familiar grievances and greatest hits as well. But you mentioned renaming the Gulf of Mexico. He proposed renaming it to the Gulf of America. On another specific issue on the pardoning of January 6, the defendants, he did not rule out pardoning violent defenders.

He had a long list of grievances against what the Biden administration is doing on executive orders. But it was Greenland, something that the president-elect has been talking about repeatedly, initially sounding like bluster, he made clear he's very serious about that for national security concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We need Greenland for national security purposes. I have been told that for a long time, long before I even ran. I mean, people have been talking about it for a long time. You have approximately 45,000 people there.

People really don't even know if Denmark has any legal right to it. But if they do, they should give it up because we need it for national security. That's for the free world. I'm talking about protecting the free world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:05:04]

ZELENY: So perhaps it's no surprise that Donald Trump, of course, the real estate magnate, would want to expand U.S. territory.

Much more complicated than that, of course. It's a Danish territory and it's not for the U.S.' to have. That does not necessarily mean that he could not build an argument for that, as well as send a message to other world leaders that Donald Trump is on the verge of being back. Of course, his first term in office, Pamela, as you well remember, we covered his first presidency.

He made a hallmark out of trying to keep other foreign leaders off- balance, if you will. And on that vein, he talked about a NATO, talking about once again demanding and urging fellow NATO members to contribute more of their GDP.

He also said if the hostages are not out in Gaza by the time he takes office, he said all hell will break out, so certainly a variety of headlines there in the first news conference of the year from the president-elect.

But, Pamela, the question is, as he comes back, his legislative agenda, at the very end, he said he does not necessarily have a preference over one bill or a variety of bills for his agenda. That is a central question. How does he enact all of these policies into action? But there is no doubt he has a lot in his mind just 13 days before taking office -- Pamela.

BROWN: Yes, talking more than an hour there at Mar-a-Lago. Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.

And he also praised federal Judge Aileen Cannon in Florida. And, actually, around the same time that this press conference was happening, that judge blocked the public release of special counsel Jack Smith's final report on his investigations into Trump.

The president-elect's attorneys, along with the attorneys for his two co-defendants in the classified documents case, wanted it blocked, calling it a one-sided argument. And this decision could be appealed to the Supreme Court. But for the next several days, Judge Cannon says it cannot even be transmitted outside of the Department of Justice.

I want to bring in CNN senior crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz.

What is Judge Cannon's argument here, Katelyn?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Judge Cannon is not actually doing much other than saying nobody's sharing this report for at least three days outside of the Justice Department.

So we were awaiting the release of Jack Smith's final report, the summation of all of his work, his charging decisions in both the classified documents case before Judge Cannon and the January 6 case, which is against Trump in Washington, D.C., or was. It's been dismissed.

Now, the Justice Department said they could release it publicly as early as Friday at the attorney general's decision if he wants to do that. And so Trump's team, the co-defendants in the classified documents case, he has two of them who work for him also accused of obstruction of justice. They also are facing the dismissal of this case, but ongoing appeals.

They are going to court and saying, we don't want any of this to become public because it could hurt us. And so Judge Cannon said, yes, let's look at the appeals court here. You have asked them as well to block the release of this. I'm going to say now, today, no one who gets this report in the Department of Justice, who has it with special counsel Smith's office, their officers, agents, employees, no one can share it outside of the Justice Department.

And once the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals makes the decision here on what to do, if they too want to block the release of it, there's going to be a three-day window where nothing can be done. And so we're in this moment where things are running out of time. Here's what Trump said at the press conference when he was told that this had happened while he was speaking that Judge Cannon put in this order.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They're not allowed to issue the report. So if they're not allowed to issue the report, that's the way it should be,because he was thrown off the case in disgrace. Why should he be allowed to write a fake report? It'll only be a fake report. That's great news. Good.

(END VIDEO CLIP) POLANTZ: He mentioned Smith's role here. That's a main argument of what his team and his co-defendants are arguing, that Jack Smith just doesn't have the power to be the special prosecutor here and thus also shouldn't be able to release a report like this.

BROWN: And it's just so interesting how Trump's two co-defendants played a role in this, right?

POLANTZ: Yes, they're actually the ones who are still in court because the Justice Department says, OK, we're dropping the cases against Trump. He's going to be president. But there are appeals over whether Jack Smith has power going through the court system down and around Florida.

Now, no one in D.C., where this other case against Trump exists, has ever said that. And so there's a split right now in the country of whether Jack Smith has power. That is what's before the appeals court. And that's where Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira, they're getting this way into the case to go to that appeals court and say we could have exposure here still.

We could face more prosecution if this case gets revived. Can you please shut this down?

BROWN: All right, Katelyn Polantz, thank you so much.

[13:10:02]

I want to bring in CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig.

I mean, what do you think about Cannon's ruling? Surprise, not a surprise?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's important to understand first of all, Pam we just saw Donald Trump sort of trumpeting this ruling as some sort of substantive victory. He was criticizing Jack Smith.

Judge Cannon's ruling has nothing to do with any sort of judgment about the case itself. All that she has said, as Katelyn Polantz just pointed out, is, everything's on hold until the Court of Appeals can rule on this. Now, it is a surprise that there's even a challenge to the issuance of the special counsel report, because previously it's been undisputed.

These special counsel regulations -- we saw it with Robert Mueller, we saw it with Robert Hur -- say unambiguously that at the end of the special counsel's investigation he has to issue a report. Now, these lawyers are making really an unprecedented argument that that special counsel report should be blocked, should be held back because, as Katelyn just laid out, two of the defendants, Walt Nauta and Carlos De Oliveira, they still have theoretically live cases.

And they're arguing this would be prejudicial to us to have DOJ release a probably several-hundred-page report laying out our conduct.

BROWN: So what do you think about the Department of Justice, what it's going to do? Appeal?

HONIG: Well, they're definitely going to fight this. They're going to argue in the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals that we, DOJ, should be allowed, we have to actually, under the regulations, issue a special counsel report.

Let me give you one other idea, Pam, to watch. Jack Smith, if he runs into trouble here, if the classified documents report down in Florida continues to be stuck and held up in the courts, he has an option strategically where he can actually separate his report into two separate volumes.

He can say, OK, fine. Now I have got two different documents. The one in Florida is being held up then it's going through litigation, Court of Appeals. But, separately, I'm going to create a separate document that's going to be the January 6 special report at a D.C. And that is going to be harder for Donald Trump or anyone else to challenge, because those two co-defendants, Nauta and De Oliveira, they're not co-defendants in the January 6 case.

So look for Jack Smith if he runs into too much of a roadblock in Florida to maybe break these into two and at least try to release the January 6 report in D.C.

BROWN: All right, I want to turn to something else and that would beat Trump's hush money case. Right now, you have this appeals court that is hearing Trump's request to delay the Friday sentencing. And I put sentencing in quotes because it's not your typical sentencing, right?

And it can happen over Zoom and he's not going to face jail time or anything like that.

HONIG: Right.

BROWN: But he's basically appealing his 34 felony convictions in this whole thing and the sentencing. Do you think the appeals court will side with Judge Merchan?

HONIG: Well, they just heard argument minutes ago.

And, Pam, important to understand with both of these stories, we are in unprecedented territory here. I mean, we say that quite a bit, but, in fact, during the argument that was just happening in New York, one of the judges asked Todd Blanche, Donald Trump's lawyer, do you have anything like this that you can point to before? And Todd Blanche said candidly, no, this is brand-new territory.

Now, here's the argument Trump is making in the hush money case. And, again, as you said, Judge Merchan had said, I'm going to sentence you on Friday, three days from today. Donald Trump made an argument yesterday to Judge Merchan. He said, well, hang on, I'm appealing this case based on immunity. Now, Judge Merchan has rejected the immunity argument, but Trump is appealing it.

What Trump is arguing Trump's lawyers is that, while that immunity appeal is going on, everything has to stop at the trial court. Everything has to be put on pause, including the sentencing. Now, Judge Merchan disagreed yesterday. He said, no, if there was a trial, I would have to stop that, but we're already done with trial. All that's left is, as you said, Pam, this probably brief Zoom sentencing, where I'm not going to give you prison in all likelihood. And I'm not blocked from doing that.

So Trump lost there. So now he's at the next level up. Now he is arguing as we speak in the New York appeals court saying, I need you to step in and block Friday's sentencing.

BROWN: Elie Honig, thank you, as always, for helping us better understand all this stuff happening on the legal front. We appreciate it.

And still ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL: With president-elect Trump refusing to rule out military force to gain control of Greenland, his oldest son is visiting there today. What we know about this trip.

Plus, a final farewell to Jimmy Carter. The former president is making his final return to Washington, where he will lie in state at the Capitol Rotunda.

That and much more coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:19:59]

BROWN: Welcome back. Donald Trump Jr. is visiting Greenland today, just as his father says he wants to -- quote -- "make Greenland great again."

Last hour, the president-elect repeated his desire to control the island, saying Denmark should just give up the territory to the U.S. The Danish prime minister has said it is not for sale and never will be. While president-elect Trump wasn't on the trip, he was there in spirit in the form of a bobblehead.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is following the story from Berlin.

Fred, what else do we know about this visit to Greenland?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I saw that what seemed to be that Donald Trump Terminator Bobblehead on the cockpit dashboard of that aircraft as it was coming into land.

It was quite interesting because, Donald Trump Jr., he said that all this is just a private trip. He said that he's there at a tourist, but, of course, comes at that very interesting time, as the president- elect has been talking about essentially taking over Greenland on the part of the United States.

I want to listen to into a little bit of what Don Jr. said after he landed there in Nuke, Greenland.

[13:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP JR., EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, TRUMP ORGANIZATION: We're really excited to be here. Thank you guys so much.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP JR.: Here as tourists. Seeing it, looks like an incredible place. We have been talking about going for a while. I was actually supposed to be here last spring for some of the stuff I do on my free time, but just really excited to be here. Awesome country.

The scenery coming in was just spectacular. So, just very excited to be here. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP JR.: He says hello. OK. We were talking to him yesterday. So he says hello to everyone in Greenland.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: It was quite interesting, because, afterwards, Donald Trump Jr. was also asked whether or not his father still planned to buy Greenland. He refused to answer that question and just sort of walked away.

But, of course, Greenland is a very strategically important place for the United States. The U.S. already has a Space Force base there, also a missile defense radar. One of the other things, Pam, that's also happening, that the U.S. has been keeping an eye on as China has been trying to get a foothold there, especially with some of those mineral reserves.

That definitely has been a concern for the U.S., of course, the president-elect now saying that he wants Greenland to essentially become a territory of the United States, today at that press conference also not ruling out using force to achieve that, all of this even though Denmark is literally one of the United States' closest and most reliable allies in Europe.

And you were already alluding to it, the prime minister of Denmark, she came out and said that Denmark definitely wants great relations with the United States, wants a U.S. presence in Greenland, but, at the same time, Greenland simply isn't for sale -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Fred Pleitgen, we shall see what happens. Thanks so much

And joining us now is Democratic Congressman Jim Himes of Connecticut. He is the ranking member of the Intelligence Committee.

All right, so what do you make of president-elect Trump declining to rule out using military and/or economic action in order to gain control of either Panama Canal, Greenland, and even Canada with the economic force?

Your thoughts?

(LAUGHTER)

REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): Pam, I think two things. Number one, I'm a Democrat, right? And we got our butts kicked in the election. I'm in the minority in the House. We have a minority in the Senate. We lost the presidency.

And there is a criticism, which I accept and take on board, which is that the Democratic Party got too far away from the kitchen table issues of the American people. People felt that chicken was too expensive. The rent was too damn high. And now, fresh off its victory, president-elect Trump is talking about taking Greenland, renaming the Gulf of Mexico, getting European countries to pay 5 percent of their GDP for NATO.

Like, where does this come from? And how does this in any way, shape, or form address the economic concerns and economic issues of an awful lot of people who voted for this man? That's thing one.

Thing two, guess what? Denmark is our NATO ally. Mexico is really, really important to us in stopping fentanyl and helping us with the migration problems we have at the southern border. Canada is really important to us, another NATO ally. We should not be gratuitously pissing these people off.

I just -- again, where is the economic benefit for the people who voted for Donald Trump when he's off telling tales of Greenland and renaming the Gulf of Mexico?

BROWN: Well, when -- the way he pitches it is, when it comes to Greenland, for example, it's for national security purposes. Is there any credence to that statement?

HIMES: No, it's bananas. It's insane.

Again, Denmark, which owns Greenland -- I think that's probably a fact that most Americans are learning -- is a NATO ally, right? And, no, so it's just complete madness from a national security standpoint.

And it also is antagonizing, right? What if some leader in Canada or Mexico is elected and says, Mexico, we want California back,we're getting California back, or the British say, we're taking Maine back? This is just -- it's noise. And, again, where is the economic story that this president -- that elected this president?

Where are the initiatives to try to make chicken less expensive, to lower housing costs? Where's all that conversation?

BROWN: I also want to talk about other initiatives he talked about and issues. One is that he said all hell will break out in the Middle East if hostages being held in Gaza are not released by his inauguration.

Do you think this type of rhetoric will work in moving Hamas to a deal?

HIMES: Well, all hell has broken out in the Middle East, and that's been true for a very long time. If you look at the images in Gaza, if you look at the fact that Israelis are regularly being forced into bomb shelters, if you look at the state of Lebanon, all hell has broken out.

Now, he will be president on January 20, and it will be his responsibility to pick up the agenda that President Biden was pushing of trying to get the cease-fire agreement done, the hostages released, and hopefully the conflict chilled considerably compared to where it is today.

So, look it's put-up-or-shut-up time, right? The guy got elected. The guy got elected on an economic message. Shame on us Democrats who didn't -- weren't persuasive enough economically. And here we are talking about all hell breaking loose in the Middle East and renaming the Gulf of Mexico and taking Greenland from the Danish. Where's the economic message there?

[13:25:00]

BROWN: I certainly see your point about the economic message being a big driver for the election, but a lot of his supporters also just like that he bucks tradition, that he doesn't do what others do, that he's willing to throw stuff out there that may be controversial.

And he portrays himself as a negotiator and a businessman, and a lot of his supporters, frankly, like that. A lot of his supporters, frankly, like what he threw out about renaming the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.

HIMES: Pam, I get that. I get that. Politics has become entertainment in this country. And, by the way, I will be the first to say that there are some apple carts that should be turned over. It takes me years to get a bridge built in Connecticut. We're not moving projects that are critical to the American people as fast as we should like.

But at the end of the day, the business of government is very, very serious. You know what we do, Pam? We do Social Security. We do Medicare. And we have a military. That's 80 percent of what the federal government does. Each and every one of those things is absolutely essential to the security and the well-being of the American people.

So, fine, if you want to spend a lot of time talking about an insane effort to retake Greenland, that's entertaining. That's a lot of entertainment. But what we should be focused on is Medicare and Social Security and the cost of chicken.

So, look, he hasn't been inaugurated yet. Maybe, after January 20, we will get back to things that are real, that aren't just about entertainment and TikTok and Instagram, and will actually help the American people.

BROWN: Well, you bring up TikTok. As you well know, Donald Trump now is sort of changing his tune, doesn't want a ban. There's going to be the Supreme Court -- a Supreme Court hearing on TikTok Friday. Where do you stand now, given your role in the Intelligence Committee?

HIMES: Sure. I created some commotion around here by voting no on the TikTok ban, for the following reasons, which is that it is inconceivable to me that the federal government would tell the free citizens of the United States, in whom we entrust things like electing the president, that you're not allowed to see this particular media outlet.

So I feel fairly strongly about that. And, of course, as you point out, as the ranking member of Intelligence, I'm pretty knowledgeable about what the threat is. And, yes, the threat is there, but so is the threat for Facebook and all other elements of social media.

And so, again, we need to remember that the First Amendment and the freedom of the press and the protections around American citizens being able -- not being told by their federal government what information they can and can't see, that to me is core.

So, anyway, my fingers are crossed for a good decision in the Supreme Court, but we will see in the next couple of weeks.

BROWN: So, it sounds like, from what you know from your role in the Intelligence Committee, that you don't believe the national security threat with TikTok outweighs the freedom of speech and else -- and other benefits that could come from it.

And I want to just follow up on that, because you point out threats from Facebook and other social media. Just today, you heard Mark Zuckerberg come out and say that Meta's going to take away fact- checkers. They're going to focus on community notes. They believe the fact-checkers were too politically biased.

Are you concerned that that could amplify national security threats or concerns or misinformation those social media sites?

HIMES: Of course I'm concerned. I live in an information environment. I have to listen to my constituents. And social media has taken what was a boring but important and real conversation about everything, from UFOs to taxes, to what have you, and turned it into entertainment and garbage, absolute garbage.

The amount of time I spend as a member of Congress swatting down insane misinformation -- I reflect on the costs of misinformation. The Kaiser Foundation suggests that there may be 200,000 Americans dead of COVID because they glommed on to vaccine skepticism or vaccine denial.

This stuff carries very real costs. And, yes, there is the potential that the Chinese could use TikTok. They never have to try to manipulate our elections or to try to do anything else. There is that potential. But, again, that's not -- if they want to get into Facebook and get your personal information off of Facebook or Instagram, they're going to do that. So the question is, what do we do about social media generally in the

context of the First Amendment? Because it has become 100 percent toxic to American political dialogue, but I also suspect to the psychological health of an awful lot of Americans, particularly young ones.

BROWN: Congressman Jim Himes, that's certainly an important topic, that last bit you just said. Thank you so much.

And we will, of course, continue that conversation. We appreciate your time.

HIMES: Thank you.

BROWN: And still ahead, more on those major changes at Facebook that could reshape what appears on the platform, as president-elect Trump says it's probably a sign his threats worked.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)