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Interview With Altadena, California, Town Council Vice Chair Nic Arnzen; Major Fires Continue Raging in California; Donald Trump Sentenced. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 10, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:59]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: A historic day. Donald Trump heads to the White House as the first president to be sentenced as a felon, no penalties, but the judge making it clear the jury's verdict cannot be erased.

Plus, as firefighters battle those wildfires in Los Angeles, at least 10,000 properties have been damaged. More than 150,000 people remain under evacuation orders, and the outlook remains bleak, as winds fuel the flames that have already torched so many homes and businesses.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And last chance for TikTok, the Supreme Court hearing arguments on whether the app should be banned, as businesses and influencers brace for the decision.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: We begin with breaking news out of New York, an unprecedented moment in American history, president-elect Donald Trump officially sentenced in his criminal hush money case.

That means that, 10 days from now, Trump will be the first U.S. president to take office as a sentenced felon. Trump appeared in court virtually today and, as expected, Judge Juan Merchan sentenced him to an unconditional discharge, allowing him to avoid any prison time or any other penalties.

KEILAR: The president-elect was convicted last year on 34 felony counts of falsifying business records related to a hush money payment paid to adult film star Stormy Daniels. Here's the moment the judge sentenced Trump.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JUDGE JUAN MERCHAN, ACTING NEW YORK SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: This court has determined that the only lawful sentence that permits entry of a judgment of conviction without encroaching upon the highest office in the land is an unconditional discharge, which the New York state legislature has determined is a lawful and permissible sentence for the crime of falsifying business records in the first degree.

Therefore, at this time, I impose that sentence to cover all 34 counts. Sir, I wish you Godspeed as you assume your second term in office.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: We have CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid with us now.

And, Paula, Judge Merchan really laying out how the office of the presidency afforded Donald Trump protections in this.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this was fascinating.

We knew going into this there wasn't going to be any real punishment. So, instead, we got to see sort of each party in this case lay out really their view of what the legacy of this case is and how we got here. And prosecutors started out by saying that they believe that Trump's relentless attacks on the judicial system, his efforts to undermine trust in the judicial system, that that has been something really significant that has come out of this case, in addition to the risk that poses to officers of the court.

This is something we saw come up repeatedly in this case. Now, on the defense side, Todd Blanche said that he believes the legacy is Trump's reelection. He said people saw it was pretty clear this case never should have been pursued, and that's part of why they reelected Trump.

Of course, the defendant and the judge both got to weigh in. Let's take a listen to them explain how they see things in their own words.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (R) AND CURRENT U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: It's been a political witch-hunt. It was done to damage my reputation so that I'd lose the election. And, obviously, that didn't work.

And the people of our country got to see this firsthand because they watched the case in your courtroom.

MERCHAN: It is the legal protections afforded to the office of the president of the United States that are extraordinary, not the occupant of the office. Ordinary citizens do not receive those legal protections.

And it was the citizenry of this nation that recently decided that you should once again receive the benefits of those protections.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

REID: A fascinating moment, because there the judge acknowledging that voters, the majority of voters did not believe that this case, these convictions were a bar to Trump returning to the White House.

Over the past week or so, it's the first time we have really seen Juan Merchan concede to the arguments the Trump team has made about Trump's status as president-elect. That is, of course, part of why he was able to appear virtually.

[13:05:07]

SANCHEZ: I'm curious about what happens next, and specifically this promise from Donald Trump to appeal psychologically?

REID: Everything -- for any defendant, right, this is psychological. This is physical. This is spiritual. It sucks to be a defendant in any criminal case.

I will definitely follow up with his lawyers about exactly what he meant by that. But I know from his lawyers that they will continue these appeals, because, after this case -- after this case resolved, the Supreme Court determined another case where they decided that presidents have some immunity.

Former presidents enjoy some of that too. And they also said, not only can you not be charged for official acts. You also can't use official acts as evidence. And that is relevant here, because Trump's lawyers argue that some of what came in as evidence, conversations with Hope Hicks, some other pieces of evidence, should be excluded after the Supreme Court made new law.

So this is going to go all the way back to the Supreme Court likely. And I want to note that, last night, he was one just as short of not having the sentencing at all. And that's shocking, because that was considered a long shot. It is highly possible that, in a year or so, a decade after the conducting question, we could see this back at the court and he could have this conviction overturned.

KEILAR: Really interesting. Paula, thank you.

Kara Scannell was inside the courtroom for the hearing.

Kara, tell us what you observed.

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, as you see that still photo that we have shown of Donald Trump next -- sitting side by side with his attorney, Todd Blanche, that is what the judge was looking at when he was addressing Trump, when he was delivering that sentence.

It was also put up in the courtroom and the overflow courtroom with boxes with both the judge, Donald Trump, his attorney, who in the courtroom didn't speak, and the prosecution team, who did address the judge. So the whole scene there, this was the trial that Donald Trump was at every single day. Today, the judge had given him the option to appear virtually, and he did from Mar-a-Lago.

But when Trump was speaking, that monitor was positioned facing the judge. And when the judge was addressing Donald Trump, he had -- sitting on the bench, but he had shifted in his seat so he was speaking directly to the monitor, directly to Donald Trump as he handed down that sentence.

I mean, this is also -- for a trial that has captured so much of the public's attention and where Donald Trump had used the hallways as a way to campaign for office and reelection. There was very little that the public had ever heard, if they have ever even heard, Judge Juan Merchan speak.

And I think what we are able to glean from the audio today is a sense of how he presided over the trial. I was in that courtroom every single day. And the way, the manner that the judge speaks to Donald Trump, he addresses him respectfully. Despite what Trump is saying, he has maintained decorum in the courtroom throughout the course of the trial.

And that was a little something new that the public had never had a chance to experience before. And I think that's what we glean from this audio that we were able to obtain thanks to the courts today.

SANCHEZ: Kara Scannell, thanks so much for that update from inside the courtroom.

Let's discuss these developments further with David Schoen. He served as an attorney for Trump during his second impeachment trial. We're also joined by Judge Diane Kiesel, a retired New York Supreme Court judge.

Thank you both for being with us.

David, what is the significance of a sentencing without a penalty?

DAVID SCHOEN, FORMER IMPEACHMENT ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: Yes, I think the significance was to confirm that the -- there's a felony conviction in the case.

And the secondary significance, but primary to President Trump, is that it now allows him -- there's a conviction in the case. It allows him to take the appeal of all of the issues in the case at once.

SANCHEZ: And, Judge, what did you make of what we saw unfold in court?

DIANE KIESEL, FORMER NEW YORK STATE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: I think what we saw unfold in court was Judge Merchan at his best. This is who this man is. Again, as you noted earlier, the public didn't get to see and hear this because cameras were not permitted during the proceeding.

But what you saw was a judge who was fair, who was measured, who treats everyone in that courtroom with respect. And despite the fact that Donald Trump is still calling the judge conflicted, calling this a witch-hunt, Judge Merchan didn't take the bait.

He took the high road, which I think is really important for the future and the legacy of the judiciary.

KEILAR: I wonder, Judge -- as we noted, Merchan was clear about it, the office of the presidency provided Trump a shield here. Do you think Americans look at this and walk away from it thinking, yes, there are people who are above the law? KIESEL: That's hard to say, because I think if you look at the

charges that Mr. Trump faced, this was an E nonviolent felony committed by a man who has no criminal record, who has a job, who -- and it's doubtful that anyone in his shoes would have gone to jail.

[13:10:00]

I think the fact that jail was a possibility was always out there, and the fact that it didn't happen makes everyone or many people think that Donald Trump somehow skirted justice. But that's not correct. This is a man who is now a convicted felon. He's going to go to his grave a convicted felon, unless, of course, the appeals court changes that.

KEILAR: David, how much does that matter to Trump, to people watching this is sort of a bit of a scarlet letter for Trump?

SCHOEN: It matters for right now, but I will bet you, with all due respect, and I know that justice said with that caveat at the end, this conviction will be overturned on a number of grounds.

And, remember also, in hindsight now, we're saying, gee, he's convicted 34 counts and so on. Andrew Cuomo has said that, if he were attorney general, he never would have committed this case to have been brought. Remember, in the DA's office, if you read Mark Pomerantz's book, the office was against bringing this prosecution in the first place.

But I think the indictment is absolutely constitutionally infirm. The jury instructions, therefore were infirm. They never identify what the target crime is. I think he's confident that it will be overturned on appeal. I certainly am.

SANCHEZ: Judge, how would you rate your confidence that this conviction would be overturned?

KIESEL: Look, I don't like to read the tea leaves. You never know when looking ahead.

I think that certainly what went on in that courtroom wouldn't lead to any type of overturning of this verdict. The only thing that's out there, and my legal colleague is correct, what's out there is the decision from earlier this year by the United States Supreme Court. And the question becomes how broadly is that going to be interpreted when looking at the evidence that was presented against Mr. Trump?

And we don't know at this point how it will be interpreted. All we do know is certainly that Donald Trump will take this to the mat to the very end. And what happens, happens.

KEILAR: And, David, considering this could go to the Supreme Court, and there are other matters involving Trump that could go to the Supreme Court, looking at -- last night at the court's narrow ruling of 5-4, allowing this sentencing to proceed, what do you read into that about where they might land on Trump's legal matters, this one and also others? SCHOEN: Yes, not much. I mean, some people read this as sort of a message by Justice Barrett and Justice Roberts that they're not going to go along sort of with anything. I don't mean with anything. I mean with everything.

Others see it is an invitation to take this case. I think the other four justices thought the case should be heard and there wasn't a reason to go forward with the sentencing now, because there are real immunity issues to be decided here. I thought that the lawyers made a mistake in the way they presented it by focusing on the presidential transition period.

There is no real authority during that. The impact is on the presidency. And that's what the OLC opinion from 2000 talks about, the stigma this raises and the distraction of conducting now the full appeal. So I don't read anything particularly into what the Supreme Court will do. I happen to think that the case will be reversed well before that for the failure to charge the target crime properly, identify the target crime.

I think it's clear on New York Penal Law 200.50 they have to specify. The jury was never told, did he falsify the business records to commit a tax violation and election fraud violation or what it was. The judge never required them to identify it. In fact, in his order, he said, well, the government's -- people have given three or four choices here. So the jury can be given that.

That's just not the law.

KEILAR: David Schoen, Judge Diane Kiesel, thank you so much to both of you for your insights. We do appreciate it.

SCHOEN: Thank you very much.

KIESEL: Thank you.

KEILAR: And next on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, we head to California, where five major wildfires are raging across Los Angeles County. What we know about the battle to contain the flames.

SANCHEZ: And the fate of TikTok now in the hands of the Supreme Court. The U.S. government says the popular app is a threat to national security, but where are the justices going to land on this?

You're watching CNN NEWS CENTRAL. We're back in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:37]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have nothing. I can't even teach. And I'm a first responder. I teach people to save lives. And I couldn't even save my house. And I'm just shattered.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Folks caring for each other. Like, everyone needs help right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Emotional moments there as survivors of the California wildfire disaster just grappling with the devastation. Some lost everything, their homes, their livelihoods and countless memories.

And, right now, five major wildfires are raging across the Los Angeles area, burning through tens of thousands of acres. At least 10 people have died, but officials still warn that number will likely climb.

SANCHEZ: This drone video shows what's left after the Palisades Fire ripped through neighborhoods, leaving behind nothing but ash and debris.

This now ranks among the five most destructive fires in California's history, along with the Eaton Fire burning to the east in Altadena.

That's where we find CNN's Stephanie Elam reporting live.

Stephanie, strong winds are expected to be a challenge yet again today and through the weekend. What are you seeing there now?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we still feel some of that breeze out here right now.

I have to tell you guys, covered a lot of wildfires, but haven't seen anything quite like this. Look at this, just an entire block of homes decimated gone, just the chimney standing up. You can tell where the homes were because of that.

[13:20:09]

You look at that and you think, OK, that's bad, but it's not just there. If you look at this whole entire street, this side also decimated. They were out here just a little bit ago, the firefighters putting out hot spots within this property.

You're talking about 14,000 acres and just this fire alone that is burned, decimating these cars, people's homes, their memories, their -- for some of them, their livelihoods because they were working out of there, all of this charred in such a short amount of time.

They're saying that more than 5,000 structures have been lost in just this fire, overall, more than 10,000 when you conclude the Palisades Fire. But think about it. We're not done. The fires are still churning. They do have some small containment on both of those large fires.

But when you look at the amount of loss that these people are facing, and you think about those 10 people who lost their lives and those families trying to put that together in their heads, on top of losing everything that they have worked for, it is devastating. And these are densely populated parts of the county.

And that's what makes it so different from a lot of the other wildfires that you have seen us cover. And it's also worth noting that fires in California are changing. Previously, we wouldn't see a fire burning like this in January, especially with this kind of heat. There's winds. That could happen.

But what we have to do here is really look at how we're dealing with climate change, the fact that we had two wet winters, all that brush grew up, and then it dried out because we're off to a very dry start to this wet season. And that just makes for easy kindling. And these fires tore through these neighborhoods.

So there's a reckoning that has to be done here, because these people, for some of them, they're going to have to decide if they want to stay here or if they're going to move someplace else. But how do you do that when your entire wealth was probably locked up in this home?

It's just a devastating situation. It looks like something out of a movie. I keep saying that, but it really doesn't look like a real situation when you see an entire block, and then you turn a corner and a whole 'nother block, and then you turn another corner, a whole 'nother block completely decimated by this fire.

KEILAR: Yes, in an area that it's unfathomable that it would look like that. It's just beyond.

Stephanie Elam, thank you for the report from Altadena.

Some people who evacuated are beginning to see what, if anything, is left to their homes after flames have ravaged their neighborhoods.

That's the new reality that our next guest is facing. Nic Arnzen is with us now. He's the vice chair of the Altadena Town Council, and he lost his home in the Eaton Fire, where you saw Stephanie reporting from. This is video that he has shared of what is left of his home.

Nic, thank you for being with us.

You have been back. Tell us what it was like.

NIC ARNZEN, VICE CHAIR, ALTADENA, CALIFORNIA, TOWN COUNCIL: Hi, Brianna.

It's hard to hear your reporter talk about it, because they're completely on track with what it feels like to walk up there. And it's just not block after block. For example, I am a council member who represents about 5,500 people. And 48 hours ago, I was trying to think of, well, what are the best ways to communicate with each other for events and for things in our community?

I probably only have a dozen or so homes in my census tract. It's like half the town is gone. It's just too overwhelming.

I will tell you, I only went back because I needed to do an interview in the area. And I will warn the residents of Altadena, don't go back. Respect that their safety is more important.

But I will say, because I was in the area, I stopped at my home. And it gave me an opportunity to video a lot of the area, so I can inform other residents, because the hardest thing right now is to try to accept the mystery of, is it there or isn't it and what's left?

It's almost all gone in our census tract, our beautiful -- and I would say to anybody listening, the best way to explain it is, if you look around right now at your neighborhood and if you think about waving at your neighbor and walking down your street, imagine, in a 24-hour period, all of that being gone.

I'm -- where I used to see homes, I'm seeing acres of debris and rubble. And it's a view that never existed, obviously, for us.

And, lastly, I will say, speaking of climate change, I know that it's so inconvenient to think about climate change, especially when it's not affecting you, when you're not getting these hurricanes, these floods, these tornadoes, and these fires. But I will tell you, it's coming your way. And that inconvenience has to stop.

We have to address it, because it's embarrassing that this country, as intelligent as it is, is not addressing it. And I'm just going to be frank. I'm worried about this next administration. All of this destruction will mean nothing to someone who's living safely where they're at to continue living that way.

[13:25:15]

And it pisses me off that people just conveniently ignore scientists and facts. And I will get off that soapbox, because people don't like to hear about climate change, but you better start listening, because it's coming your way.

KEILAR: Well, we have talked a lot about it. I think people -- some people do want to hear about it and they want to figure out ways forward with it. And we're seeing it play out before our eyes.

I do want to ask you about your personal experience.

ARNZEN: Sure.

KEILAR: Because your kids are young adults. You have one still at home, your 18-year-old daughter. Your son, I know, is newly a Marine.

But your kids are still young, even though they're adults. You also have a friend of your daughter who you're caring for who aged out of the foster care system. So you still have two kind of kids at home. How are they managing this and the fact that this home with so many memories that you built as a family is gone?

ARNZEN: They are more resilient than I gave them credit for. You're totally right, Brianna. They are still kids. So, very much so, I'm being cognizant of being here for them and being present and making them the priority.

As people who have gone through this know, things become really clear where your priorities are, how simplified your life can be and what you need to focus on. We were four adults, two dogs, a bunny and a cat running out of that house on -- when -- on Tuesday evening.

And it was overwhelming. To answer your question, they are coping with it. They are surprising me. I will tell you, I mean, one of the hardest things for me to do the past 24 hours was to hear my adult son, my 19-year-old, who just became a Marine, was just sent off to North Carolina for his first base.

And we were constantly asking each other, are you OK? Because I knew how overwhelming it must be for him to imagine, everything's gone. Are we safe? And now I hear he wants -- he told me: "Dad, I just want to come home."

And it gave me pause, because how do you answer, there is no home? We're just living with the clothes off -- I have had this sweatshirt on for three days. And we're just living with the clothes on our back, and lucky to have friends that are bringing us in. And I had to tell my Marine son: "I want you home too, but what can we do? There is no home."

So we are bringing him out here. We have another son up in Washington state. And they're resilient. They surprise me and they give me strength. And they remind me that community is family. So, for us -- for me to continue doing what I do for our community, I can't feel guilty about. I have to remember that my family knows that that's part of what makes us who we are.

KEILAR: Yes, it certainly does.

And we see your dog in the back. So, listen, it is good to see you safe. It is good to see your family safe. But you have lost so much. And we appreciate you talking with us about it, Nic. Thanks for being with us.

ARNZEN: And thank you for putting Altadena at the forefront, because it's a community that's been decimated. And a lot of it's being forgotten with celebrity stories and other news.

But I truly appreciate what you're doing.

KEILAR: All right, Nic, thank you.

And for more information about how you can help Los Angeles area wildfire victims, go to CNN.com/Impact, or you can text Wildfires to 707070 to donate.

And with nine days left on the clock, the Supreme Court hearing TikTok's argument to overturn the law that is forcing a sale or a ban of the platform.

Stay with us.

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