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Biden Says TikTok's Future will be Decided by "The Next President"; Supreme Court Upholds Ban on TikTok that Starts Sunday; Trump DHS Pick Kristi Noem Faces Questions at Confirmation Hearing; Trump Plans Aggressive Immigration Overhaul on Day One. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 17, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:00:50]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: The TikTok may actually stop after Supreme Court justices find the one thing that they all agree on, upholding the apps ban. But the fight may not be over until President-elect Trump has the final word. We'll talk about that.

And we're also following the confirmation hearing for Trump's pick to lead the Department of Homeland Security. We'll tell you what South Dakota governor, Kristi Noem says about his plan on immigration and the border.

Plus, we are three days away from Trump's inauguration and there is a big change in plans for the ceremony. Something that has not happened in 40 years. We are following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

As many as 170 million users are watching the clock on TikTok in the U.S. in about 32 hours, it's supposed to be outlawed by a bipartisan law. The Supreme Court upheld that ban today. They sided with the U.S. government over National Security concerns if the app stays under Chinese ownership.

But today the Biden administration signaled it's not going to enforce the ban come Sunday, leaving it to the next administration, which, of course, takes power on Monday. Here's President Biden a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your take on the TikTok decision today, sir?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, it's a decision that is going to be made by the next president anyway. So, I think it will work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Well, the next president, Donald Trump, has been working on an executive order to delay the ban, according to sources. The President- elect posting today that he spoke with Chinese President Xi Jinping about the app, which he actually wanted to ban himself at one point. TikTok CEO is already showing his gratitude with, of course, a TikTok video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHOU CHEW, TIKTOK CEO: I want to thank President Trump for his commitment to work with us to find a solution that keeps TikTok available in the United States. We are grateful and pleased to have the support of a president who truly understands our platform, one who has used TikTok to express his own thoughts and perspectives, connecting with the world and generating more than 60 billion views of his content in the process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's turn now to CNN Chief Media Analyst, Brian Stelter.

Okay, Brian, here's the thing, what happens on Sunday when people click on the TikTok icon on their phone?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Initially, at least until a few hours ago, my impression was that the Apple app store, the Google app store would have to remove the TikTok app. So if you wanted to download it for the first time, you couldn't. If you still already have the app on your phone, it would just continue to function like normal. But like a car that's running out of gas, it would start to break down and stop functioning over time.

However, Brianna, I've changed my thought on this in the last few hours. Now that the Biden administration has said they're not going to enforce the law on Sunday, I don't think users are going to see a change on Sunday unless ByteDance, the owner of TikTok, wants to send a message by telling its users, hey, this app is in trouble. Americans are trying to shut us down. Take action. Pressure your politicians.

But frankly, they've already achieved that through lobbying action, through influencers. TikTok has pressured politicians, including Trump, and seems to be winning. They seem to have the wind at their backs right now as they try to get this ban reversed.

So, you know, it is possible there could be several different outcomes on Sunday and Monday. But I think for the time being, because Trump has signaled that he wants to negotiate some way out of this, users' experience will probably not change this weekend.

KEILAR: So how does that work? Because Trump told our Pamela Brown this morning he'll be making the decision on TikTok. He's signaling that, as you said. How might he stop it from being banned or does he just sort of like buy it time?

STELTER: Yes, find an American buyer and then convince the Chinese owners to sell it to that American buyer. Let someone like, let's just think of someone who's close to Trump, maybe Elon Musk.

[15:05:01] You know, there are already bids out there from Frank McCourt and Kevin O'Leary, for example. O'Leary of "Shark Tank" name (ph) has been on this network talking about his bid for TikTok.

The issue has been that ByteDance, the Chinese owners, do not want to sell. That's what they've said all along. They do not want to give up any part of TikTok. Will that change under President Trump? Will he have more persuasive powers? Will he come at this differently? That's a big question.

What we know is that this is all happening because of Trump five years ago calling for a ban. And the reason that Congress signed - enacted this law and wanted it to go into effect on Sunday was precisely to avoid a situation where Trump would try to repeal it, right? This law's timing was on purpose before the inauguration.

But now it seems a lot of Democrats don't want to hit the blame for this. Biden, Chuck Schumer, they don't want to be blamed for TikTok going down. And so this is being punted to Trump. And I think we know one thing for sure. Trump cares deeply about his popularity. He loves knowing he has lots of fans on TikTok. He's been crediting TikTok with helping him win re-election. So, he seems to have a real change of heart about TikTok, partly for personal reasons.

KEILAR: Yes, it also seems that China can benefit from a bunch of disgruntled Americans who are mad that TikTok is banned, that there's a bit of a win-win there, too. But I wonder if it is banned and you start seeing people, you know, we've been talking to content creators and they gravitate towards other apps. What do you think about some of these other apps that have gained popularity?

STELTER: It's a little bit like going from broadcast TV with only three channels to cable TV with 300. They're not going to be any one winner if TikTok does disappear in the U.S. There will be a number of different apps. Right now, it's startups, mostly Chinese-owned startups that are winning the race. If you look at the Apple app store, look on your phone right now, look at the top three apps, you'll see mostly Chinese-owned apps, including one from ByteDance.

You'll also see startups like Flip that I, frankly, had not heard of a week ago that are trying to capitalize on this. There are lots of different flavors, but there's no one TikTok alternative. Here's the other thing I've noticed, Brianna, when I look at these alternatives, I look at the conversations about this law and about the National Security concerns, the politicians and the experts who say that TikTok is a threat, who are concerned about China's influence, their voices are barely being heard right now, you know?

Their voices are missing from the conversation. They're certainly not showing up in your TikTok feed. So, it seems to me the people that are calling for this ban to be reversed are winning in the public conversation. The people that had real National Security concerns, they seem to be losing right now.

KEILAR: Yes, it'd be interesting if people do end up going towards other apps. It's sort of like out of the fire into a bunch of different frying pans and how is that going to work.

Brian, thank you so much. It's really interesting to see how this is going to play out.

So, today is wrapping up a week-long blitz of confirmation hearings for key members of President-elect Trump's incoming administration. Senate Republican leaders are expressing hope that they'll be able to vote to confirm some of Trump's top National Security nominees on Inauguration Day, including Secretary of State pick, Marco Rubio.

Earlier today, Trump's choice to lead the Department of Homeland Security, South Dakota governor, Kristi Noem, said that if she's confirmed, she would fulfill Trump's plans to crack down on immigration. Here's her exchange with Missouri senator, Josh Hawley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Is the southern border secure as we find it today?

GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R) SOUTH DAKOTA: Senator, no, the southern border is not secure today. But in just three days, we will have a new president in this country, President Donald J. Trump, and he will secure our border.

My hope is that if given the opportunity to serve as secretary, that the federal government would no longer, and I believe as President Trump has promised the American people, facilitate an illegal alien invasion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: With us now is CNN's Priscilla Alvarez.

It's interesting to hear how she's describing this because crossings are down. But there's also this emphasis, and you have a lot of new reporting on this, about what Trump is going to be doing from day one, nonetheless, on the border.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, her responses there were telling in the way that she's going to frame this moving forward, even as, to your point, numbers are very low, lower than they have been in a while.

Now, yes, there's a package of executive actions that they are working to roll out within hours of the President-elect being sworn in, and they really fall into three buckets. So, interior enforcement: We heard this a lot on the campaign trail about the mass deportation. Well, it starts somewhere, and it would start, according to the sources I've spoken with, with ICE sweeps in major metropolitan areas. That is because that's where migrants have gravitated toward. That is where they have seen an influx of migrants over recent years.

So, think Denver, Chicago, also places that the incoming borders czar, Tom Homan has verbally sparred with, publicly. Then, there's sort of the bucket of the border, and the border includes the National Emergency Declaration to shore up more Pentagon resources along the U.S. southern border, more asylum restrictions, even though there are some that are already in place.

And then the third is more focused on illegal - on legal immigration.

[15:10:00]

So, the travel ban issuing - which would ban some people from coming to the United States. Now, of course, who exactly that is and how it would play out, unclear. But I'm told not to anticipate sort of the airport chaos that we saw in 2017. They know a lot more as to how they can implement this agenda.

And speaking of implementing, of course, Kristi Noem, if she is confirmed, would be the one at the helm of the Department of Homeland Security, which houses the immigration enforcement agencies. But in that confirmation hearing, she got a question from Sen. Kim, who said, you're sending some mixed signals because there's also Tom Homan, the border czar, at the White House. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ANDY KIM (D-NJ): Will he be giving orders directly to CBP, ICE, USCIS?

NOEM: Tom Homan has a direct line to the president. He is an advisor to the president. The border czar. I obviously will be, if nominated, and confirmed, and put into the position of being the Department of Homeland Security secretary and responsible for the authorities that we have and the actions that we take.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: So that'll be a new dynamic to watch in the incoming administration. Not something that we saw the first time around. But a reminder, Brianna, that the Department of Homeland Security, as you know, is sprawling. It is very big and it's not just immigration. So, if she's confirmed, she'll have a lot on her plate.

KEILAR: Yes, so many objectives there. Priscilla, thank you. Really appreciate it.

Here in just three days, President-elect Trump will be officially sworn into office. But there's been a last-minute change to his inauguration plans, and it is a big one. Trump announcing today the events will be moved indoors because of what is, I mean, a frigid weather forecast for Monday.

The last time that a presidential inauguration was moved inside because of freezing temperatures was back in 1985 for President Ronald Reagan's second inauguration. He took the oath of office, as you see here, in the Capitol Rotunda. CNN reporter Alayna Treene is joining us live from Florida, where this would not be a problem if there was an inauguration held in Florida, Alayna. What a change. And, you know, we should note, it was expected to be in the low 20s. But with windchill, we were looking at single digits here in Washington. So cold, leading to a change of these plans.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: No, that's exactly right. And when I talked to Donald Trump's team, and we had learned earlier this morning as well before Trump had officially announced this, that they were planning to do this. And when I talked to them, it was because they argued that there are some serious health concerns. They did not want people catching hypothermia, one advisor told me.

I mean, as you mentioned, yes, you know, in the 20 degrees, maybe even getting down to 11. But with those, you know, 20 to 30 mile per hour winds that are expected on Monday, it would feel much colder. And again, there are hundreds of thousands of people who are planning to descend on Washington, D.C., to go to the National Mall and stand out there to witness Donald Trump and JD Vance being sworn into office.

But because of that, that means they would also be out there for several hours on end, also increasing some of the concerns and the safety risks that the team had. Now, what we know is that Donald Trump and Vance are going to be now sworn in inside the Capitol Rotunda. I will note that that space, I've spent a lot of time there, is far smaller than what they were anticipating. And so there is definitely going to have to be some decisions made about who will actually get to be in that area and in that space.

But this was, of course, something that they weren't anticipating, especially when you keep in mind, Brianna, that Donald Trump really wants his inauguration to be this massive event, a global event. He's invited global and world leaders. He's invited the heads of TikTok and face - and Meta, excuse me, and Amazon, so this is different from what they were anticipating, so not what they are expecting, but yes, inauguration now is going to be inside, a big change from those original plans. Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes, certainly is.

Alayna Treene, live for us from Florida. Thank you so much.

And still to come, one step closer, the Israeli security cabinet approving the Gaza ceasefire and hostage deal. The full cabinet is reportedly meeting right now. They still need to sign off.

Plus, working to save jobs from the so-called Department of Government Efficiency. How some federal workers are quietly editing job descriptions and performance reviews.

And later, 10s of thousands of people are still under evacuation notices in California as firefighters make gains against the Palisades and the Eaton fires.

We have that and much more coming up on CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

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KEILAR: A long-awaited hostage-ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas is now hanging in the balance as we are waiting for a vote by the full Israeli cabinet, which is meeting at this hour, according to local media.

Earlier today, the Israeli security council voted to approve this deal. And if the deal is approved broadly here soon, it calls for 33 hostages to be released in phases in exchange for hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. The deal also calls for a six-week ceasefire. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is with us now from Tel Aviv.

And Jeremy, tell us what we know about where this critical vote is right now.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that cabinet meeting is indeed underway, and it could be underway for quite some time. Every single minister in the government gets to have their say before they cast their vote, and that is the process that we believe is now underway. But there is really very little question about what the outcome of this vote will be.

The Israeli prime minister does indeed have the numbers in order for this ceasefire agreement to get the official stamp of approval of the Israeli government via this vote from the full cabinet.

[15:20:04]

Earlier today, we saw the security cabinet, a smaller group of ministers, approve this agreement, despite the fact that there are these key defections from two far-right ministers in Netanyahu's governing coalition. The national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, who has said that he will leave the government coalition altogether if, indeed, this ceasefire agreement passes the government vote. And then, Bezalel Smotrich, the finance minister, who has instead sought assurances from the Israeli prime minister that Israel will go back to war at the end of this six-week ceasefire.

And so it appears that, at least for now, everything is on track for this deal to be approved and for the ceasefire to go into effect this coming Sunday. If, indeed, that happens, we will see three female civilian Israeli hostages be released from Gaza sometime as early as Sunday afternoon. They will be released in exchange for 30 Palestinian prisoners each who will be released by - from Israeli prisons. We will then see the much-needed entry of humanitarian aid into Gaza, as many as 600 trucks of aid per day over the course of those six weeks.

But then, of course, there is now this major question mark that has been thrust into the public by the demands of these far-right ministers about what happens after those six weeks. Beginning on day 16 of the ceasefire, Israel and Hamas are supposed to go back to the negotiating table to negotiate the next phases of this agreement to try and extend that ceasefire, and ultimately, as the Biden administration and the mediators have been pushing for, to reach an end of this war in Gaza. That is very much uncertain now, amid these demands by those far-right ministers. And we should note that the Israeli prime minister in the past has refused to commit to an end of the war and has insisted that the war will not end until Hamas is entirely destroyed inside of Gaza. Brianna.

KEILAR: All right. Jeremy Diamond, thank you so much.

And with us now to talk more about these developments, we have retired Lieutenant Colonel Jonathan Conricus. He is a former IDF spokesperson. He's also a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, and he is the host of "The Bottom Line."

Thank you, sir, for being with us.

You don't think this is a good deal, but do you think it's a necessary deal?

LT. COL. JONATHAN CONRICUS (RET.), FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES: Yes. Thank you for having me.

It's probably the best that we could get in the current conditions, where I think Israel has been limited from applying full pressure on Hamas. And, you know, I'm very happy that 33 Israeli families will get to see their loved ones, hopefully. We don't yet know how many of them are going to see live loved ones and to start a long journey of healing within the family and community. And we don't know how many are dead and will only be finally brought to burial in Israel. So that's still waiting. And, of course, the entire country is really on its toes in anticipation for Sunday.

Strategically, no, it is not a good deal because Hamas is still in power. And as long as Hamas is in power, that means that the war continues. That means that we have a sworn enemy on the other side of the border, an enemy that wants to destroy Israel. And it's also bad for Palestinians. And I do feel sorry for Palestinians, because the fact that Hamas is still in power almost ensures 100 percent that there's not going to be any substantial reconstruction or alleviation of their situation. And, yes, they are suffering in Gaza as a result of Hamas' decisions and Hamas' warfare tactics. And it is very sad that Hamas prioritizes itself and its jihad against Israel over the needs of the civilian population.

So, it's a bittersweet kind of deal. We'll hope that this is not the end of it and look forward to really achieving what Israel needs to do.

KEILAR: And, Jonathan, you clearly feel that Israel has been hamstrung by outside influences. Can you be more specific? And you tell me if I'm not characterizing that correctly. That's just what I've taken away from what you said. But be specific. Who are you holding responsible for that feeling that Israel has not been able to exact maximum pressure on Hamas?

CONRICUS: You know, you're 100 percent correct. You're paraphrasing it correctly. And, you know, in war, when you fight a war like this, like Israel is forced to fight, similar to what European countries fought in the Second World War against the really embodiment of evil and the real total desire to destroy Israel, very similar to what the Allied forces faced in Europe, different scale, different industrial capabilities granted.

[15:25:06]

But we are facing the same type of genocidal intent and desires against Israel. And when you fight a war like that, you need to apply all the levels of leverage on your enemy, including things that ...

KEILAR: But are you pointing at the Biden administration? Are you pointing at the Trump administration? This is basically the same deal that was put forward in May, the framework by the Biden administration, but it wasn't until Trump folks got involved that, you know, Israel moved forward with this. So, I mean, who are you looking to when you say that?

CONRICUS: No, definitely. I'm not talking about the deal in such. And you're, again, correct, the deal is essentially the same. When you asked about how have we gotten here, right, we're 15 months into a war that Israel didn't start, and didn't want, and wasn't really prepared for, and we still haven't defeated Hamas, and we have not yet achieved our strategic goals, and we have not yet secured our southern border and that's a problem.

And the reason we haven't done so is because we have stopped short of applying all the levels of leverage over our enemy, and yes, including humanitarian aid. In war, you need to use the tools that you have available in order to force your enemy to stop fighting, to break the enemy's will to fight. And there's different ways to do that. Israel has been forced to use less than the capacity that it should be using, and that is why this war has dragged on, much to the detriment of Israeli civilians and also Palestinian civilians who are suffering longer and worse than what they should have been suffering had Israel been able to really conduct decisive warfare against Hamas.

KEILAR: Just to be clear, Jonathan, so you're saying that Israel should have been able - I just want to be clear about what you're saying here, that Israel should have been able to use better-as-a- lever humanitarian aid for - as a mechanism for meeting its objectives?

CONRICUS: Yes, I'll explain why. You know, this deal, as you said correctly, was on the table and was presented mid and late May by the Biden administration. There was a lot of pressure on Israel to agree to it, and there was pressure on Israel also to allow the provision of fuel, and food, and other supplies into the Gaza Strip, which we understood was a breaking point for Hamas. Now, Israel was forced to ...

KEILAR: But explain that - but, Jonathan, you also understand that that's looked at internationally as collective punishment, which is illegal by international standards. So, I mean, speak to that ...

CONRICUS: Yes, I mean ... KEILAR: ... because there are people who will zero in on what you're saying, especially as a former IDF spokesperson, and will say that there are problems with that.

CONRICUS: Well, I'm sure that people have lots of problems with Israel fighting and defending itself and I've heard in ...

KEILAR: That's not what I'm talking - Jonathan, that - Jonathan, that's not what I'm talking about.

CONRICUS: Yes, yes.

KEILAR: I'm talking about what you're saying about food and fuel for civilians in Gaza. And I understand Israel's position that also that ...

CONRICUS: No, not the civilians.

KEILAR: ... I understand ...

CONRICUS: Yes, not the civilians.

KEILAR: ... that it would be - the concern would be that Hamas would use it or that Hamas would co-opt it. I know that's the concern of Israel. But the concern of people who worry about ...

CONRICUS: Well, it's more than the concern ...

KEILAR: Yes, I know.

CONRICUS: Yes.

KEILAR: And I know that that is a valid concern, but the concern of people who look at the suffering of Palestinians would be, right, that they will suffer furthermore because of that.

CONRICUS: Yes, what I say to those people who - I suppose many of them genuinely care for the well-being of Palestinians, of the civilians who are not related to Hamas. If they really care about Palestinians, then I think that their top priority should be to focus on getting rid of Hamas, not applying pressure on Israel. Hamas started the war. Hamas wants to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews that they can get their hands on, as they proved on October the 7th. And Hamas is the organization that is using Palestinians, civilians, women and children as their human shields as they, Hamas, are hiding inside the tunnels.

So I fail to see how, you know, this is Israel's - Israel is to blame. I think Hamas is to blame. And I think that anybody who sincerely - and I emphasize sincerely - cares about Palestinians and their well- being should be focusing and helping Israel to get rid of Hamas. Once Hamas is gone, then the future will be much better for Palestinians in Gaza. Maybe then they can move forward towards self-governance, and agency, and to have future, and independence, and to be prosperous and free.

[15:30:06] That is not in the cards for Palestinians as long as Hamas ...