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Rep. Ami Bera (D-CA) Is Interviewed About Trump Administration Policies; Edward Beck Is Interviewed About The National Prayer Service; Lawmakers Question Tech Influence. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 21, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Entering its third year. This morning, Rubio was asked about how he will approach negotiations to end that war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: As the president said when he was campaigning, he wants the dying to stop. He wants the destruction to stop. I think that's in everyone's interest.

Now, will that be easy? Will it be complicated? Of course, because every side's going to have to give something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now, Democratic congressman from California, Ami Bera. He sits on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, thanks for coming in.

So, the secretary of state there with that comment and reaction and take making clear that U.S. strategy towards Ukraine is changing course when - in calling on both sides to give something to end the conflict. Maybe not a surprise that Marco Rubio is saying that in his new role because that has been the position of Donald Trump coming in. But what is your reaction to that? What do you think this means for the war?

REP. AMI BERA (D-CA): Well, Kate, thanks for having me on.

I do think it means that the Trump administration will make a concerted effort to get all sides to the table. You know, I think you'll find democratic foreign policy folks like myself willing to participate in that negotiation and see what happens. You know, the contours of a deal would have to guarantee some Ukrainian security. Obviously, the territories that Russia occupy right now, there will have to be some resolution there. But I do think there is that possibility of a negotiated ceasefire and end to this conflict.

BOLDUAN: The other major crisis squarely in - squarely front and center for the president on day one is the hostage ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. The president was asked in the Oval Office last night how confident he is that he can keep the ceasefire in place and conclude the three phases of the hostage deal.

I want to play for everyone how President Trump responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not confident. That's not our war. It's their war. But I'm not confident. But I think they're very weakened on the other side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: He said he was not that confident. That's a different message in a very different tone in my interpretation from what he said just, you know, last month, saying all hell would break loose if all the hostages weren't released before he took office. What do you take from that?

BERA: Yes. So, the Middle East is going to be a lot more complicated. You know, certainly I'm glad to see some of the hostages being freed and returning home.

I think we can get through this first phase, the first six weeks. But longer term, you know, what happens in Gaza? Hamas still is in place. You know, can Netanyahu, Prime Minister Netanyahu continue to stay in power with his coalition, saying that if Hamas is there, they're not going to support him? So, this is going to be incredibly complicated.

And then you've got Syria on the other side. You know, can you get the Saudis to the table, the Emiratis and so forth.

So, you know, again, we're willing to work with Secretary Rubio, President Trump, to try to figure out what long term peace and stability in the Middle East looks like. But I think this is going to be a much more complicated negotiation.

BOLDUAN: Yes. And, Congressman, in conversations we've had in the past, you've always talked about being the proud son of immigrants. And I just think - I want to get your take on what you hear in what has been a major move, really the central focus of his executive orders so far was moves on cracking down on immigration, and specifically President Trump's move toward ending birthright citizenship. What do you see in all of this?

BERA: Yes. So, I think the ending of birthright citizenship is going to be a tough one for him to accomplish. I think we will fight him on it. And, obviously, you've seen the legal process take place. It is not easy to change the Constitution, and that's going to require congressional cooperation.

On the other hand, if he targets folks with criminal histories, folks with existing deportation orders, you know, I think it'd be hard for us to - to push back as Democrats. So, if - if he's focused there, you know, I - I think you will see less pushback. If he starts to do workplace raids, if he starts to go after dreamers, you know, I think that's going to be a bit of a problem. I also do worry, you know, that the 1,600 or so Afghan refugees, some

of these children with their families here in the United States, rescinding those orders. These were already approved. So, I do worry about that - that component of it.

BOLDUAN: What I hear in our conversation here, and I think people should pick up on, is you're talking about a willingness to work together, or push back less if - to say it another way, because that - it has - it is a big question of what is - how do Democrats approach, not just majorities, the Republican majorities in Congress, but approach the second Trump term? You said earlier this month, let's meet at the 50 yard line. I'd even say, since they're in the majority, we'll go 40 yard line. What does that mean - I'll ask specifically where you think you can all come together?

[09:35:07]

BERA: So, we could do something on the border. Again, the folks that are coming to the border are different than a decade, two decades ago. I've gone down and talked to border agents. Two decades ago, it was folks coming up from Mexico, working, going back and forth. Now you really do see asylum seekers from all over the world. I'm empathetic to them because they're seeking a better life, but that is different than what we saw two decades ago. Maybe there is a border deal to be had.

You know, we talked about Russia. You know, 2025 is different than 2017. We all know who President Trump is. I lived through that first term. The public has said they want us to do stuff. But again, don't take us to the end zone, take us to the 40 yard line and we can negotiate and try to get some stuff done.

BOLDUAN: Congressman Ami Bera, always good to have you. Thank you so much for coming in.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you, Kate.

Ahead, Trump heads to the National Cathedral for the traditional prayer service. What may unfold while he visits the episcopal church, whose views are at odds with Trump's immigration doctrine. That story and much more ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:37]

BOLDUAN: So, first up this morning for President Trump on his first full day back in the White House, attending the national prayer service at the Washington National Cathedral. Attending the service just after inauguration is a tradition dating back to 1933. The National Cathedral says this interfaith service will be a place to gather, to seek healing, unity and wisdom in the months to come. And you can be sure we all could use more of that.

Joining us right now is Father Edward Beck, the campus minister at Manhattan University, a longtime friend.

Thank you so much for being here.

REV. EDWARD BECK, CAMPUS MINISTER AND CHAPLAIN, MANHATTAN UNIVERSITY: Great being here.

BOLDUAN: We were just talking, there was a lot of prayer yesterday throughout all of the events. How will it be different today from what we heard in all of the prayer and - that we heard yesterday?

BECK: Well, in my opinion, a lot of the prayer yesterday was kind of partisan screed, and it wasn't prayer at all. It was histrionic performance, with the exception of Cardinal Dolan, who I thought began very well and also graciously mentioned President Biden. I think the others just were all about lifting up what President Trump has done, will do, and telling God what to do. And I didn't think it was prayer at all.

And I think what we're going to see today, as you mentioned, will be very different at the National Cathedral.

BOLDUAN: And what you - different in how, in tone, in tenor, in message?

BECK: Well, I've read through the prayers. It's an interfaith service. So, all faiths are going to be represented. Interestingly, though, there's not a Roman Catholic representative, which I feel -

BOLDUAN: Does that mean something? What do you think?

BECK: I don't know, other than the current archbishop, Cardinal Wilton Gregory, has not been in accord with Donald Trump on many issues. We know the incoming cardinal archbishop, Robert McElroy, has spoken vociferously against many Trump policies, especially immigration. It's just interesting to me that they weren't there yesterday and they're not there today. They're the Roman Catholic leaders of the Archdiocese of Washington.

Having said that, the prayers today, which I have read through, are about caring for refugees, they're about breaking down walls. They're having compassion for people. There's a rabbi who's going to read the segment from Deuteronomy that says, you, Israel, were strangers in a foreign land. So, you must now welcome strangers as God has welcomed you and as you have been welcomed. I wonder how President Trump and some of the administration sitting, listening to those prayers and those readings will feel when they seem in direct opposition to some of his policies.

BOLDUAN: That will be very interesting to see, to see this morning, and we'll all see it together. I believe it begins at around 11:00 this morning.

President Trump talked about God yesterday during his inaugural address, about God saving him. I want to play that for you and for everyone.

Listen to this, please.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just a few months ago, in a beautiful Pennsylvania field, an assassins bullet ripped through my ear. But I felt then, and believe even more so now, that my life was saved for a reason. I was saved by God to make America great again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: What do you make of that message in that moment, Father?

BECK: Well, I think the theology is problematic. So, did God not save MLK Jr.? I mean, a prophet who is speaking about a vision for the country that we still revere to this day, why was he killed and why was this president saved? So, does God have favorites? Is God partisan? What makes you think that that was God's intervention, other than hubris, which is condemned in the scripture, and it lacks humility. And so, it's not my theology. It's not the theology of the Judeo-Christian tradition that we have a kind of God who picks and chooses who he will save.

BOLDUAN: No, I think there's all - a lot that we should all be listening to come this service at 11:00 a.m., the national prayer service.

It's good to see you, as always.

BECK: Great to see you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Sara.

[09:45:00]

SIDNER: Father Beck always brings the calm to the studio, I have to say, right?

BOLDUAN: It's one of the few moments I actually feel calm, ever.

SIDNER: I'm in agreeance. You can come back, sir.

BOLDUAN: No, we need - we need him to just leave the vibes.

SIDNER: Just stay.

BOLDUAN: Yes, please.

SIDNER: Forever.

All right, ahead, there was nearly $1 trillion in the room as President Trump was sworn into office. We'll take a look at the role tech billionaires may play in the new administration. That is coming up with Brian Stelter. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SIDNER: Trump took office surrounded by the richest people in the world.

[09:50:01]

Billionaire tech executives. That has Democrats on the attack. Connecticut Democratic Senator Chris Murphy said this, "what you are watching is the construction of an oligarchy, where a handful of crazy, rich, self-interested billionaires work with an elected leader to grab power so that the government works to enrich the small cabal of wealthy insiders and no one else. And what makes this particular oligarchy so worrying is that the companies that are folding into the Trump administration are the tech and media companies, the very institutions that control the flow of information."

Joining me now, CNN chief media analyst Brian Stelter is with us this morning.

What message do you see this sending? There are only a few seats that weren't for Congress members because it was inside.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Right.

SIDNER: And here you see Bezos, Zuckerberg, Elon Musk standing there at the inauguration.

STELTER: This was the inauguration of the oligarchs. It was a turning point in American history to have these men, these tech CEOs, all almost front and center with Trump. And not just at the ceremony. We're also showing scenes from the weekend at some of these parties, some of these galas where Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos and others were hanging out, talking shop.

We know Elon Musk is the tech CEO closest to Trump personally, but these other moguls are trying to make sure they are cozy - cozying up to the incoming president as well.

And I think we should take stock of this and say, why are these men so rich? Why do they have so much power? It's kind of because of us. We're the users. We're the ones using their platforms. We're the ones buying ads and products on their platforms. So, that is where the power comes from.

But now, now that Trump is in office, the question becomes, what's he going to want from these CEOs and what are they going to want from him? What are the transactions going to be?

SIDNER: Do you see this as the potential for pay to play where Trump can pressure them, and they can help him out with other things, i.e. the messaging on their apps?

STELTER: One hundred percent. We have to see what they do. Meta and Google right now are being sued by the U.S. government for violating antitrust laws, for example. Mark Zuckerberg would like those -- this - one of those cases to go away. Meta has lots of other business before the government, and so does Google, and so do the other companies, especially in the realm of AI, where all of them are investing heavily into AI.

I'm also really curious to see if we get to a point where Trump tries to pressure these companies to squelch dissent. I think of that word, squelch dissent. You know, right now, Trump is promising to end censorship, right? That's one of his executive orders, no more censorship by the government.

But let's imagine that there are controversies that arise in the coming days, weeks and months, maybe about immigration. Is Trump going to want these platforms to quiet some of the critics, to squelch dissent, to stop protests? You know, the thing about these platforms, they're so powerful, they shape what we think and what we do. They can also shape what we don't do. I've already seen columnists warning and worrying that maybe it's going to be harder to organize protests if these apps don't make it so easy.

But again, these are all questions. Right now we don't have answers. One more big question, what will Trump do about TikTok, right?

SIDNER: Yes.

STELTER: The clock is ticking again. Seventy-four days until TikTok might be banned again.

SIDNER: Yes, let's talk about TikTok real quickly.

STELTER: Yes.

SIDNER: How unusual is it? We saw this app come back online after Donald Trump says he's going to give it a stay, if you will.

STELTER: Yes. Right.

SIDNER: And the app came back online and they said, look, thank you to Donald Trump.

STELTER: Thank you, yes. Yes.

SIDNER: How unusual is that, and what does this mean? What does this (INAUDIBLE)?

STELTER: It's exactly what it looked like, right? They were trying to give the president a PR win. And TikTok did. It was successful. Now, this is a negotiation between two men, the president of China and the president of the United States. What will Trump and Xi do over TikTok? That becomes the question. Will Trump bring in Musk or one of his other tech mogul allies and try to strike a joint venture for TikTok?

I thought it was notable that last night Trump did not guarantee that TikTok will stay online once this springtime deadline comes. He says he's going to try to make a deal, but he's going to need help from others to do that. SIDNER: We saw some interesting reactions. We saw Hillary Clinton sort

of lean her head back and laugh when Donald Trump started talking about things like changing the name of the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.

STELTER: Oh, yes, this was a viral video moment, yes.

SIDNER: It was a viral video moment.

When you saw that and heard that from Donald Trump -

STELTER: Yes.

SIDNER: Is this simply one of those distractions that gets everybody talking but doesn't go anywhere, or how do you see this playing out?

STELTER: I think if he actually is trying to expand American's, you know, land and try to be more of a conqueror, it's not a distraction. But, for the moment, that order to rename the gulf is a distraction. It's ultimately up to what Apple and Google and these tech companies do, right? If they change the name -

SIDNER: What do you mean?

STELTER: If they change the name in the map app that we all use, then maybe it will be more real. Until then, it's his announcement, and we'll see how real it becomes.

By the way, we asked Apple, we asked Google, are you going to change the name of the Gulf of Mexico in your apps? And so far, they haven't responded.

SIDNER: When you look at this, what does Donald Trump stand to gain? What do these tech billionaires stand to gain as they're sort of maneuvering? And they have been doing this since before he became president.

STELTER: Yes.

SIDNER: They've been going to Mar-a-Lago and assuming stating their case. And they are businesses. And the Trump administration, and you hear this from people in the circle saying, look, this - he was just highlighting American ingenuity.

STELTER: Right.

SIDNER: He was highlighting, you know, great business in this country.

[09:55:01]

STELTER: And there is a lot more to do. But consider how much these companies have grown in the last few years, both in the Trump and Biden eras. Meta. Google. These are the biggest companies in the world.

Mark Zuckerberg, for example. The reason he is a billionaire so many times over is because the Meta stock price has been on a tear, and it's up again this morning, probably because of the vibes that are coming out of the Trump inauguration.

But will those vibes remain, right? Will that continue? Will these stocks stay so high? Will these companies remain as powerful? Maybe they think that with the White House's support, they can.

SIDNER: Yes. They're called the magnificent seven. And we have seen them -

STELTER: They are. And they're pretty magnificent right now.

SIDNER: They've lifted the entire stock market up over last year.

STELTER: Yes.

SIDNER: Brian Stelter, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for coming on (INAUDIBLE).

STELTER: Yes. Good to see you.

BOLDUAN: And thank you all so much for joining us today. This is -

SIDNER: Twinsies.

BOLDUAN: Twinsies. Forever.

Thank you.

This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "CNN NEWSROOM," up next.

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