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Trump Meets with GOP Congressional Leadership; Trump Disparages Church Service After Bishop Pleads For Mercy on Immigrants, LGBTQ Community; Oath Keepers Leader And Violent Jan. 6 Rioters Freed From Prison After Trump's Clemency. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 21, 2025 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:00:40]

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN HOST: Full speed ahead. On his first full day in office, President Donald Trump is moving ahead with his priorities. We'll look at what he's done and what could come next as he meets with the Republican leaders of the House and Senate just this hour.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Plus, bracing for mass deportations, major cities across the U.S. are preparing for ICE sweeps, telling immigrants to have their emergency plans in place and employment documents on hand.

And a final piece of Joe Biden's legacy as president, a prisoner swap with the Taliban, freeing two Americans held in Afghanistan. We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN News Central.

TAUSCHE: Happening right now, Trump's first full day of his presidency is moving at lightning speed as he flexes his executive powers. Any moment now, the new president will meet with House Speaker Mike Johnson and Senate Leader John Thune at the White House.

SANCHEZ: They are set to discuss the next steps of Trump's sweeping agenda after the President signed a stack of executive orders on everything from immigration enforcement to making major reforms to the federal government. And the White House also says the President will make, quote, a massive infrastructure announcement this afternoon.

CNN's Manu Raju is live on Capitol Hill for us. But let's start with Jeff Zeleny live for us at the White House. Jeff, walk us through what this meeting with Republican leaders is all about.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: And so it begins. Boris, this meeting is going to be the first of certainly several with President Trump and Republican leaders in Congress. Of course, Republicans control all levers of the government here.

But the question now, the challenge now is moving ahead to enact an agenda exactly how that will be done. How many bills, one big beautiful bill as the President often talks about, or separate bills as some members of Congress, particularly on the Senate side would prefer. That, of course, is the open question.

Now, there's no doubt that this is the Republican era. You know, the new day certainly has dawned here in Washington. But the, the majorities are so small, particularly in the House, far smaller than eight years ago.

There was, if I recall, about a 17 seat House majority back in 2017. There is a one seat House majority now for Republicans, however, it is much more of a Trump aligned Republican Party. So basically this is going to be the beginning of a discussion of how to work together and how to get the agenda accomplished, which is extending the Trump tax cuts, immigration, obviously, so much more.

We are going to see more from the President later this afternoon when he does make an infrastructure announcement, the White House says. But we did see some from him earlier today at a prayer service where also congressional leaders were on hand. And it was a prayer service that did not sit all that well with the President, largely because of an immigration message from the pastor at the Washington National Cathedral. Here's what President Trump had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOMAN #1: What did you think of the --

MAN #1: Sir, what did you think about the service?

DONALD TRUMP, 45TH AND 47TH U.S. PRESIDENT: What did you think? Did you like it? Did you find it exciting? Not too exciting, was it? I didn't think it was a good service. No. Thank you very much.

WOMAN #1: Thank you, Pres. Thank you, Pres.

TRUMP: They can do much better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So certainly did not seem to be in a good mood there. Perhaps a reminder that after your Inauguration Day, when you control the ceremony, you control the programming, this is now a new reality for governing. Of course, President Trump knows this well. He's been through it all before, which of course is one defining difference from the first time in the administration.

But the bishop there at the Washington National Cathedral was talking about immigration, that message about having a bit of a mercy for the immigrants in this country. Of course, immigration at the heart of the President's agenda, cracking down on the southern border, declaring a national emergency. But that is the mood and mindset going into this important meeting with Republican leaders that should be underway fairly soon.

TAUSCHE: Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, thank you. Let's bring in Manu Raju on Capitol Hill now. Manu Trump's blanket pardons of roughly 1,500 capitol rioters drawing some strong reactions and some unease from Republicans. What are you hearing? MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, this went much further than a lot of Republicans believed. In fact, a lot of them, as I'd asked them about Trump.

[14:05:01]

He had been saying this all along in the campaign show. But a lot of them simply did not think that he would pardon people who had attacked Capitol police who were convicted for assaulting police, saying that he would go for non-violent offenders.

Well, that's not what Donald Trump did. In fact, he issued a blanket pardon, also commuted the sentence of leaders of the groups, the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers, something that Republicans clearly are uneasy about. I caught up a number of Republicans, many of them sidestepped the questions, some of them objected to it and others pointed the finger back at Joe Biden for issuing his own pardons for his family.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN THUNE, (R) MAJORITY LEADER: Well, I said what I said before and that is we're not looking backwards, we're looking forward.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS, (R) MAINE: I do not support the pardons if they were given, if they were given to people who committed violent crimes.

SEN. THORN TILLIS, (R) NORTH CAROLINA: I've got concerns with any pardons for people who did harm to a police officer, full stop. And I've also got serious concerns with all of the pardons by President Biden.

SEN. KEVIN CRAMER, (R) NORTH DAKOTA: I'm uncomfortable with all of it. That said, what I'm willing to look forward instead of backwards. And I do think that that's what this episode does.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, two senators who had stronger reactions on the GOP side are ones who actually voted to convict Donald Trump in the aftermath of the January 6, 2020 attacked in these impeachment trial. Those senators, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana who told me I am a big black back the blue guy. I think people who assault police officers, if they do the crime, they should do the time.

And Kayla, also Lisa Murkowski, the Alaska Republican, told us that I do fear the message that this sent to these great men and women that stood by us. Of course, referring to the same Capitol police who defended this building, who defend this building every single day. But even those who were attacked by police officers, those ones seeing -- those people who attacked them freed by Donald Trump. Kayla.

TAUSCHE: Manu Raju on Capitol Hill. Manu, thank you.

SANCHEZ: So this is video of Oath Keepers leader Stewart Rhodes walking free in Maryland earlier this morning. He was serving an 18 year sentence for seditious conspiracy and a number of other felony charges.

TAUSCHE: And Proud Boys chairman Enrique Tarrio, who was also convicted of seditious conspiracy, was released today as well. According to his attorney, Tarrio was serving a 22 year sentence at a prison in Louisiana.

Joining us now to discuss is CNN Senior Legal Analyst Elie Honig. Elie, it's great to see you. We just heard the reactions of Republicans on Capitol Hill from Manu and this new rationale, that perhaps because of President Biden's own sweeping use of the pardon power, that there's some equivocal nature here. Do you see that?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: No. I mean, that's not how it works. President Biden's pardons of his family members were disgraceful. I mean, they're historic acts of nepotism, of cronyism. He pardoned five of his own family members. But it doesn't follow that pardons of 1,500 Capitol rioters are therefore justified.

I mean, it's the old two wrongs don't make a right. They're very different wrongs, different scope, different scale. But both of those sets apart, as we saw yesterday, will be remembered poorly in history without question.

SANCHEZ: Elie, we saw Kaitlan Collins in the last hour outside of the jail here in D.C. and there were folks lining up outside and gathering to celebrate those that were being released. I do wonder what the process is like behind closed doors to actually get these folks that have been pardoned out. How long does it take? What is it like?

HONIG: It should be immediate. I mean, once a president issues a pardon, that is it. There's no court cases, there's no appeals, there's no second opinion. It is over. And what's unusual about these, beyond just the scope, is that a lot of times when we see pardons, it's someone who's already finished a sentence, or in some cases, a person who's not yet been charged.

Here we have people who are in prison, about 400 people, I think. They should all be released immediately or as soon as prisons can process the paperwork and get them their property back. It takes a few hours, but between last night and today, they should all be out. These have very real practical consequences.

TAUSCHE: And then there's an entirely different group of people that President Trump commuted their sentences and has said that he is still considering possible pardons for them. What's the difference here?

HONIG: So there's two layers. The more dramatic action is a pardon, and that is what Donald Trump has given virtually everybody, except for the handful of Proud Boys and Oath Keepers. A pardon just means your conviction is wiped off the books. If you're serving a sentence, it ends immediately. Case over. You're not even technically a convicted felon anymore.

A commutation is a lesser version of that. That just means a sentencing reduction. Commutations can be partial. You can knock someone from 40 years down to 30 years. But what Trump did in this case is he knocked everyone's sentence down to what we call time served. Meaning you are done right now.

But I should note, it can happen that a person, let's say Stewart Rhodes, right? He got a commutation, some point in the future that can be changed to a full pardon.

SANCHEZ: And that would provide certain rights. He'd be able to vote, purchase weapons, et cetera. I do wonder, Elie, what this means for federal investigators and federal prosecutors.

[14:10:01]

This is one of the largest investigations in U.S. history. It was not light work. Now, it's essentially wiped off the books.

HONIG: It's a great question. It's got to be crushing for the people, the law enforcement agents, the prosecutors who worked on this. I mean, we're talking 1,500 cases, untold numbers of personnel, hours, effort, time.

Look, I had one case, not anywhere near this pardon for me, and it kind of stung a little bit, but it was one case. You know, I moved on. I mean, people spent their lives doing this. That said, prosecutors I think, do need to understand.

We prosecutors are given -- God knows we're given plenty of power, as is the pardon power just simply does not reside with prosecutors. It resides with the chief executive, whether president of the United States, governor of a state. So I assure you it hurts. I assure you that it's painful for them, but it's the way our constitutional democracy is structured.

SANCHEZ: Elie, appreciate the analysis as always.

HONIG: All right.

SANCHEZ: Thanks so much.

And this just in to CNN. After revoking the security clearance of dozens of former intelligence officials, including his former National Security Adviser, John Bolton, we're now learning that President Trump has pulled Bolton's security detail as well.

TAUSCHE: Let's get straight to Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, what can you tell us?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, we saw a lot of first moves that Trump was making as soon as he took office yesterday with all of those executive orders and a flurry of activity. One thing that went quietly unnoticed is that he also terminated the Secret Service detail that is assigned to Ambassador John Bolton, of course, one of Trump's national security advisers in his first-term.

This is a detail that was assigned to him when he was the National Security Adviser then. But when he left the Trump White House in the fall of 2019, Trump actually terminated his Secret Service protection then. And it was only later, after President Biden took office, that later in 2021, he restored that security to John Bolton, someone who required ongoing protection, including alongside other officials, because of ongoing Iranian threats against him.

And just to give you a sense of how serious these threats are, the Justice Department in the fall of 2022 actually charged an Iranian official because he was in the United States and trying to reach out to people plotting to assassinate John Bolton, they said. That's in a Justice Department release.

And so if you've seen John Bolton, he has a heavy security presence around him. It's not just one or two detailees. It's quite a heavy presence now that has been stripped of him. He was informed of this and delivered a statement to CNN about this, saying that he was disappointed with this decision by President Trump, I should note.

And in this statement that I'll read to you now that he provided to CNN, he said he's disappointed but not surprised that Trump made this decision. He said, notwithstanding my criticisms of President Biden's national security policies, he nonetheless made the decision to once again extend Secret Service protection to me in 2021.

He noted that the Justice Department charged that Iranian official with plotting to kill him. And he said that threat remains today, as has also demonstrated by the recent arrest of someone trying to arrange for President Trump's own assassination. Bolton said in a statement to me, the American people can judge for themselves which President made the right call.

Obviously, this is a serious matter here as they decided to revoke this protection for John Bolton. He noted not only the threats against him, but ever since Trump's first assassination and then the second assassination attempt, we also were reporting about unrelated and unconnected but ongoing threats by Iran against his own life and those of the top advisers around him. And now, Trump has made the decision, within hours of taking office, to terminate the Secret Service protection that was around Ambassador John Bolton.

SANCHEZ: You have to wonder how officials in Tehran might be reacting to this news. Kaitlan Collins, live from the White House. Thank you so much for that news.

So we're now learning about new action taken by the administration after the President's executive orders on immigration. White House border czar Tom Homan says that targeted enforcement operations are underway in major cities across the U.S. and earlier on CNN, he warned that the crackdown would not be limited to migrants who have been convicted of crimes. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, WHITE HOUSE BORDER CZAR: When we find him, he may be with others. Others that don't have a criminal conviction are in the country legally, they will be arrested, too, because we're not going to try -- and this is the difference between the last administration and this administration. ISIS is going to enforce the immigration law. There's nothing in the INA, the Immigration Nationality Act, says you got to be convicted of a serious crime in order to be removed from this country. So there's going to be more collateral arrests in sanctuary cities because they forced us to go in the community and find the guy we're looking for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: We're joined now by Brian Hopkins. He's an alderman for Chicago's second ward. Brian, thank you so much for being with us this afternoon. Have you been given any details of what this operation might look like in Chicago, what potential raids might entail? And have you heard anything about operations beginning today in your area?

BRIAN HOPKINS, CNN CHICAGO ALDERMAN: No. We haven't. You know, we've put out a warning to the migrant community and especially to our Latino neighborhoods in Chicago. There's a lot of nonprofit groups on the ground right now distributing material on how to protect your rights and things of that nature.

[14:15:02]

So there's a little bit of fear as a result of that, and people are apprehensive because it's just an unknown. But we have seen absolutely zero evidence that the federal government, under these new executive orders, are taking any immediate action. And frankly, I don't think they could if they wanted to. They don't have the capability.

Right now, we have a very small number of federal agents stationed in Chicago, and if they want to round up hundreds of people, they have nowhere near the resources and the capability at hand right now to do that. That's not to say three months from now or six months from now, it won't happen.

But there doesn't seem to be any immediate threat, unlike what Mr. Homan has been rattling his saber, including last month when he was here in Chicago, he made a point of saying, you know, today there would be some massive roundup in Chicago. It's not happening, and I don't believe it's going to happen, at least in the near-term.

SANCHEZ: It's fascinating to hear you say that, in part because it appeared to me that during his conversation with Dana Bash, Homan was sensitive to the idea that there were going to be raids today. He kept describing them as targeted operations. I wonder what that might look like for your city, what that might actually mean.

HOPKINS: Well, I can tell you one thing we know is there's approximately 300 undocumented individuals that have been identified as having been arrested for severe crimes, including murder, attempted murder, criminal sexual assault. 80 of them are currently being held in our detention facility. And we know this.

So from my view, I'm Chairman of the Public Safety Committee here in Chicago. And as much as I want to support, you know, the freedom to migrate and, you know, the tradition of America being a welcoming country as well as a sanctuary city, here in Chicago, the federal government wants to deport these dangerous criminals. I think we should cooperate with them as far as that's concerned. And I don't understand why that would be a controversial position.

But when you see the kind of, you know, extreme rhetoric coming out of this administration already, it makes it very hard for us to make the case that we should cooperate with them because there just isn't any trust, there isn't any two way communication right now. Both our governor and our mayor have really pushed back hard on some of the rhetoric coming from the President right now. We need cooperation on a matter like this. It's a question of public safety that goes beyond just trying to reform immigration policy.

SANCHEZ: To that point about cooperation, Trump obviously has vowed to compel local law enforcement to aid in deportation efforts. And I want to let our viewers know that last week you voted in favor of allowing city police officers to work with immigration agents. In some cases, that effort ultimately failed to move forward. I do wonder where you draw the distinction. What type of cases you think city police should be cooperating with federal agents with, and which ones they maybe shouldn't cooperate with?

HOPKINS: Yeah, that's a great question. And I voted, I was one of 11 aldermen to vote yes to have that conversation. We had a relatively flawed ordinance that was presented to us that I thought was a good conversation starter. It was not ready to be passed into law. But we should have this conversation.

Where do you draw those lines? As I mentioned, we have 80 individuals right now that that have been arrested for violent crimes. We have something here in Illinois, in Chicago, called the Safety Act, which means that a judge cannot detain you and incarcerate you on a pretrial basis unless there's compelling circumstances that justify it. So these 80 individuals have pretty convincing evidence that they are, in fact, guilty of the crimes that they're accused of.

And again, it's murder, attempted murder, criminal sexual assault. You know, these are undocumented people who have caused harm here and in their limited time in America, in Chicago. And I just don't see why we would want to defend them as a society. In fact, you know, polling data suggests that -- the New York Times just had a poll that said 87% of American voters believe that undocumented people who commit crimes while they're here should be deported.

So that's something we have to deal with. I believe it's a factor in the fact that my party, which I'm a loyal Democrat, it hurts me to see how poorly we did in the last election cycle. And I think part of it is we're out of step with mainstream views when it comes to public safety on things like criminality being caused by undocumented people.

SANCHEZ: Brian Hopkins, we appreciate you sharing your point of view. Thanks for joining us.

HOPKINS: Thank you, Boris.

SANCHEZ: At this hour, President Trump giving TikTok more time but no extra leeway. We're going to discuss the options for ByteDance, the app's owner.

TAUSCHE: Plus, hear why Elon Musk's new DOGE Department is already facing multiple lawsuits.

And it's a lot to keep track of, but we'll take a closer look at a few of Trump's two dozen plus executive orders that are sliding under the radar. That and much more coming up on CNN News Central.

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TAUSCHE: President Trump may have restarted the clock on TikTok, but the table stakes haven't really changed. Face a national -- face a ban over national security concerns or sell to an American owner. Trump, however, did add a new warning to China if they don't agree to sell the company.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: China charges us tariffs and we charge them very little. Except for what I did. I put a lot of -- we took in hundreds of billions of dollars, but until I came along, China never paid 10 cents to this country. They ripped us off and they never paid anything.

But like if we wanted to make a deal with TikTok and it was a good deal and China wouldn't approve it, then -- I think ultimately they'd approve it because it would put tariffs on China maybe. I'm not saying I would, but you certainly could do that.

[14:25:03]

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANCHEZ: So that warning comes after the TikTok CEO publicly supported Trump, thanking him specifically in a video over the weekend. He also attended Monday's inauguration. You sitting -- you see him sitting there next to Tulsi Gabbard, the President's pick for Director of National Intelligence.

As you might imagine, China is not happy with the President's remarks on the sale of TikTok, insisting that TikTok's future should be decided by companies and in line with Chinese law. CNN Chief Media Analyst Brian Stelter joins us now. Brian, did something change between Trump and TikTok?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Well, now he has power and he's going to use it. We're looking at TikTok as a pawn here, as a chip on a giant game of poker. This is a dramatic negotiation between the U.S. and Chinese leaders.

And we now know this negotiation at least involving TikTok. It's part of a much broader, you know, resetting of a relationship between the U.S. and China. But we now have another ticking clock, right? The clock was ticking down until this weekend. TikTok was briefly blacked out. Now, we know the new deadline is the first week of April. And so users might feel a little better having the app back temporarily. But if you look at your phone, look on the Apple App Store, for example, if you have an iPhone. TikTok has still not been restored for new users. So people who already have the app, they can use it today. But Apple clearly has concerns about this ban stayed in place. And ultimately this is going to be between Trump and his Chinese counterpart. Can the two of them work out a deal?

TAUSCHE: And I've spoken to some investment bankers who would be advising some companies who are investors who would be interested in the app. And they say that there is no seller. The app is not for sale even as of now. So we'll see how that progresses over the next 75 days. But Brian, Trump is also downplaying the severity of the threat that he believes TikTok now poses. Here's what he said last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: And remember, TikTok is largely about kids, young kids. If China is going to get information about young kids, I don't know. I think, to be honest, I think we have bigger problems than that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: Brian, wasn't that one of the goals of the ban in the first place, to protect users against having their data gathered by an adversary that could use it against them later?

STELTER: Yes, the President's doing rewriting of history in the last 24 hours. We know he has about January 6th, but he's also rewriting history right here when it comes to TikTok. His concerns about China's influence, they were not, you know, simply about kids using an app. And he just hadn't used it before. He didn't know what it was all about.

Trump's evolution on this began about a year ago. Back then, Politico reported, it was a billionaire donor named Jeff Yass that we had Trump's ear, influencing Trump to start to be more supportive of TikTok.

Now, we know more recently, Trump has seen his popularity already on TikTok. He likes how popular he is on the app. That seems to have something to do with his flip flop. But the idea that this is just an app for kids and we shouldn't worry about the harms, you know, in a day full of shocking comments that was one of the most shocking things Trump has said.

SANCHEZ: And also it should be stated Congress passed a ban on TikTok that the Supreme Court of the United States then upheld. So he's sitting there as President, not signing it, not vetoing it. It's essentially just punning on it.

I do want to ask you, Brian, we pointed out a moment ago that TikTok CEO was one of several big tech executives at the inauguration. One thing that all of these folks have in common, not that they're executives, it's that they control the information that Americans consume. Should that be a concern? STELTER: Short answer, yes. But the consolidation of power in the hands of a few big tech CEOs didn't happen overnight. Didn't just happen with Trump. It's been an issue now for years. Some people might be waking up to it now and getting more worried because Trump is getting cozy with these CEOs or he seems to want them to bend the knee.

But, you know, this is why Biden's DOJ had wrapped up Meta and Google in antitrust court battles. We will see if Trump lets those battles continue or if he tries to make them go away. You know, these concerns are real, but they're not new. What we need to watch for going forward is whether the algorithms are used in ways to downplay criticism of Trump. That would be a dramatic change, a dramatic escalation.

If, for example, if anti-Trump groups are trying to organize protests on a site like Facebook and they're able to -- not able to, in the U.S. that would be a dramatic change. We're not seeing that happen today. But I know there are groups on the sidelines, watching, waiting, wondering if these tech companies will feel they have to curry favor with Trump in different ways. It's just a big question mark going forward.

TAUSCHE: Well, on that note, Brian, I mean, you see all of these leaders who run these companies who were not just out of Trump's favor four years ago. They had banned Trump and his official accounts from their platforms four years ago. Now, can they afford not to engage with Trump?

STELTER: I'm so glad you reminded us of that. You know, it was, it was Twitter, it was Facebook that had basically excommunicated former President Trump after January six. But now this is a rational business choice that Mark Zuckerberg and others are making. They're sitting on really high hot stocks. They want to keep their valuations high. They're doing --

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