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Trump Pardons January 6th Rioters; Skye Perryman is Interviewed about a Lawsuit against DOGE; CNN Original Series on Kobe Bryant. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 22, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:30:48]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, new reporting from "Axios" this morning details the private back and forth amongst President Trump's team over how many January 6th rioters to pardon. An adviser tells "Axios" the president said, quote, "f it, released them all."

Another round of January 6th defendants was released from a Washington, D.C., jail overnight. You can see pictures of it right there.

With us now is Adam Kinzinger, CNN's senior political commentator, former Republican congressman who sat on the House committee investigating the January 6th insurrection.

Congressman, thank you for being with us.

During the January 6th hearings, you now famously spoke directly to some of the officers who were attacked on January 6th. This is a moment that's actually captured in a wonderful documentary you're a part of called "The Last Republican." I want to play that clip again this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM KINZINGER, FORMER REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN (July 27, 2021): You guys may, like, individually feel a little broken. You guys all talk about the effects you have to deal with. And, you know, you talk about the impact of that day. But you guys won. You guys held.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You won, you told those officers. Now - now that the people who attacked them have been released, pardoned, or a few of them had their sentence commuted, do you feel like that statement still holds?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, let me say, on the short term, these insurrectionists got their backside handed to them by these cops. I mean it - they were outnumbered 30 to 1 and they could not overrun these cops. These are tough cops.

So, in terms of the actual fight, the insurrectionists got crushed. And it was beautiful to see, by the way.

In the long term, I don't think they did win, no. I mean, look, in the long term, what ended up happening here - if you remember, all these people got arrested after January 6th. They were all repentant. I mean if you remember, they were all, like, I'm embarrassed the president had me do this. I'm repentant. And then Donald Trump and the right wing media ecosystem, like, surrounded these people and brought them in and told them they were special and they were victims and they were delicate. And that created this whole victim narrative.

And for Donald Trump, because he's so lazy, and we're going to see more of this for four years, to just simply say, you know, f it, release them all, because he didn't want to have to go through the details of it. Like, that's fine. America, you voted for this. It's fine. It was your choice. But you're going to have a president now that isn't concerned with details, and he's just going to try to feed the base. And that's what he's doing here. And what he's seeing, though, is that there are senators and congressmen who are remembering now, and some for the first time because they weren't in in the first Trump administration, that they're going to have to learn where the quickest exit is to any room they go in, because they're going to be asked these questions every day, and constantly.

BERMAN: Well, on that - on that note, let's play what now Vice President J.D. Vance said about what he was expecting in terms of pardons when he was vice president-elect.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (January 12, 2025): If you committed violence on that day, obviously you shouldn't be pardoned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, that was pretty clear. I mean he did go on to say that there might be a gray area from some, but there was the word "obviously committed acts of violence," et cetera. What Donald Trump did was different than that, no?

KINZINGER: Absolutely. Absolutely. He let everybody go. Look, it's one thing - I mean, I would have been upset. But again, my point is, you know, Donald Trump didn't hide that he was going to do this. But, you know, it would have been one thing if he'd have commuted the sentence of those that like, you know, weren't violent. You know, I think that's one thing. And probably a lot of the senators would be out there saying, yes, that's fine, it's his choice.

But, no, these are people that, you know, one, that repeatedly put a Taser into Michael Fanone's neck as he heard people say, kill him with his own gun. This isn't made up stuff.

And, by the way. Trump, the day of January 6th, gave this speech that he recorded where he said, these people will pay. And so, obviously, that changed. It changed because of politics. And what happened is Donald Trump is sending a message, like, political violence, if you do it on my behalf, I'll protect you.

And so, yes, it means a lot. J.D. Vance said, no, nobody that's violent should be released. Donald Trump said, release them all.

[09:35:01]

And now you're going to see a lot of humida (ph) humida from senators who are trying to answer this, how they back the blue, but it's also the president's right. But I got a meeting over here, so I'm going to run away from you real quick.

BERMAN: Humida, humida. That is a congressional term?

No, I - but my question to you is, what do you anticipate in terms of a further reaction from your former colleagues?

KINZINGER: Oh, nothing. I mean, look, they're going to - all of them will probably be forced to be on the record in some manner. They're going to say it's the president's prerogative. I back the blue. I disagree. Quote/unquote, we have big things to deal with. That's what they're going to say and they're going to move on.

Look, I lived through this for four years. Your goal is to get out of any question you're asked that's awkward like this. And that's exactly what they'll do. And you'll have a few people that will embrace this because they like to just feed the base and they're, you know, whatever. But, yes, for the most part, you'll get one comment from most people and then they're going to just avoid it and pretend like they don't hear you, or they're on the phone in the hallway or something like that.

BERMAN: Former Congressman Adam Kinzinger, nice to talk to you this morning. Thank you very much,

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, two days into the new administration, the Department of Government Efficiency, otherwise known as DOGE, is facing legal trouble. The people behind the lawsuit on their reasoning and the DOGE headache President Trump now has to face.

And, breaking overnight, a shock to the British royal family. Prince Harry gets a full apology for phone hacking connected to Rupert Murdoch's newspaper group. The details behind the apology and the big payout.

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[09:41:14]

SIDNER: President Trump's newly created and Elon Musk led Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE as it's become known, is getting hit with a flurry of lawsuits. The lawsuits allege that DOGE is violating federal laws.

Joining me now to discuss is attorney and CEO and president of Democracy Forward, Skye Perryman. Democracy Forward is representing one group of plaintiffs trying to ensure DOGE's actions will be more open to the public.

Thank you so much for joining us.

You're alleging that these - these groups are alleging that there are laws that are being broken already by DOGE. What laws are being broken?

SKYE PERRYMAN, CEO AND PRESIDENT, DEMOCRACY FORWARD: Well, just the most basic requirements that we have in this country. The president can consult with whoever he may want to. The government can too. But if they're private advisers, there has to be transparency.

And so there is a law called the Federal Advisory Committee Act. It was signed into law during the Watergate era. Another era where there was a lot of concern about secrecy and corruption. And this DOGE institution and other attempts at the federal government are really operating in the shroud of secrecy, and not in a way where the public is able to understand what is happening and - and so that's - that's what the plaintiffs here are alleging. They're - they're real people. They are teachers and veterans and public health professionals and consumer advocates. And so many people coming together to say that there has to be transparency here.

SIDNER: Is it just about transparency, or there - is there something else in the law that talks about having differing opinions as well?

PERRYMAN: Absolutely. So, that's another fundamental requirement, that these advisory commissions have to have a fair balance, which, of course, DOGE has not been operating in that way. And that's another allegation that you see in our and other suits.

SIDNER: Look, we've seen polling and it generally shows that Americans do support making the U.S. government more efficient. Is the goal of these lawsuits to get rid of DOGE altogether?

PERRYMAN: Well, you know, everybody wants the government to be more efficient, to do better, to deliver for the American people. But the antithesis of efficiency is corruption and secrecy. And, you know, enabling influence based on loyalty or ideology. And so, these lawsuits are seeking to ensure that DOGE does not operate until it comes in compliance with these basic transparency laws. These are ideologically neutral. It's an ideologically neutral law. It's just about transparency and fair balance for the American people.

SIDNER: I want to ask you about something that we are all learning today, a move that Donald Trump has made in his first full day in office as president. He placed all federal employees in diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility roles on paid administrative leave effective immediately. So, furloughing them. Can he simply fire these federal workers in a sort of blanket statement? PERRYMAN: You know, this is one of many things that he's done in the

last 36 hours that have legal problems, are unlawful and are problematic for the American people. He has also signed executive orders that is seeking - seeking to replace our non-partisan public servants, including these public servants, but others with partisan loyalists and ideological loyalists. There are a number of legal problems with what and how this administration is operating.

[09:45:01]

There's already been one legal challenge filed, and there will be more filed as a result of what they are doing, really preventing the government from working for the American people.

SIDNER: Does your group plan to file, or some of the people that you represent plan to file any legal action because of this move against DEI and those who are employed?

PERRYMAN: We are representing and working with people and communities across the country, looking at all of the tools that their - they have, including legal rights and remedies. And so I do think that you will see a range of people in communities across the nation using every tool they have to ensure that the government works for the people and not for any one individual's private interest or for ideological loyalty.

SIDNER: Skye Perryman, thank you so much for taking the time this morning to come and hash through all of that. Appreciate you.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: The man, the myth, the mamba. A look at CNN's new documentary on the life and legacy of Kobe Bryant.

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[09:50:34]

BERMAN: This morning, a new CNN original series chronicles the life and legacy of Kobe Bryant, one of the great basketball players of all time.

CNN's Bill Weir on the moments that cemented Bryant's ascension to the Hall of Fame, as well as the personal challenges and transformations that occurred along the way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the next man I'm going to introduce has it all, youthfulness, talent, and got lots of money, about to get married. Come on up, Kobe.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Long before the five NBA title parades, the four league MVP awards and Olympic gold -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The USA is back on top. This is what it's all about.

WEIR: Los Angeles fell in love with this kid at first sight. His dad, Jellybean Bryant, was an NBA first rounder and journeyman pro who played and coached around the world. So, on courts from Italy to Philly, the prodigy dribbled and dreamed of being better than dad and everyone else.

BRYANT: You know, I was in the airport on my way up here, and people would come up to me and say, hey, do you play basketball? And I said, yes, you know, I play basketball. And they say, well, what team do you play for? I'm used to saying, Lower Merion High School. So, I'm there. I'm like, well, I play for Lower Merion High. No, you know what, I'm a Los Angeles Laker.

WEIR: And this sports-crazed town embraced that kid like a member of the family. Like few other athletes ever. I was a sports anchor in L.A. the night Kobe proposed to Vanessa. And every station in town sent traffic helicopters over their house with live coverage to mark the momentous occasion. We had no idea how he would evolve as a family man, as a player, and how Vanessa would end up as a fierce defender of his legacy.

WEIR (voice over): In 2003, when he was charged with sexually assaulting a 19-year-old desk clerk at a Colorado resort, he insisted it was consensual. And his wife's very public support helped keep the public very much on his side.

BRYANT: I'm innocent. I didn't force her to do anything against her will. Disgusted at myself for making a mistake of adultery.

WEIR (voice over): His defense team and the media tore into his accuser's personal life. There were multiple death threats. And when she was no longer willing to testify, the case was dropped and Kobe would apologize to her in writing.

But he would also harness his pent-up anger, drive, into a new alter ego he called Black Mamba, a snake so deadly it strikes fear at first sight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next month he did 81. He came back with that. He won his first championship without Shaq once he became the Mamba. He won a second championship without Shaq once he became the Mamba. He finally won an MVP once he became the Mamba.

WEIR (voice over): But off the court, Kobe would shed Black Mamba and transform into a girl dad, doting over his four daughters with obvious, infectious love, right to the end.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kobe Bryant did not invent girl dad. He just perfected it. And it just felt like the future was limitless for him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CNN breaking news.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then, in a heartbeat, it all stops in the most horrific way imaginable. WEIR (voice over): It's been five years since a helicopter accident

took him, his daughter Gianna and seven others. We remember the lives lost and the legacy of Kobe, a name forever in the debate over all- time greats.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEIR (on camera): That statue of him and Gianna now is in L.A. There's so many murals. And hard to believe 41 years old. You can imagine he'd be a star commentator these days. Maybe a team owner. But it's really fascinating, when we look back, this new flash doc at the early days, this kid who took Moesha, the star of Moesha/Brandy to prom because he was famous enough.

BERMAN: I remember that.

WEIR: Remember that?

And then shows up in L.A. and the city just fell in love with him and stayed that way all the way till the end.

You were there after he passed.

SIDNER: I was there a day after his helicopter went down. I've never seen anything like it outside of that stadium. And then inside in that first game still gives me chills. It was unbelievable to see it.

WEIR: Powerful character.

BERMAN: All right, Bill Weir, thank you very much.

SIDNER: Thank you, Bill Weir.

WEIR: You bet.

BERMAN: Look forward to seeing this.

SIDNER: Wow.

[09:55:01]

BERMAN: The new CNN original series, "Kobe: The Making of a Legend," it airs Saturday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on CNN.

BOLDUAN: Thank you all so much for joining us today. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. "CNN NEWSROOM" up next.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Today, pardon fallout. This morning, fears of escalating violence as January 6th rioters are released from prison.

[10:00:02]

The QAnon shaman says he's going to buy some mother f-ing guns.