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Pushback on Trump's January 6 Pardons; Trump Administration Dismantles Federal DEI Offices, Puts Staffers on Leave. Aired: 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 23, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So here what you make in an hour, as he puts it, is an entire day's work in Mexico.

This is his third year on the Visa work program.

He said the money that he makes here, he is able to support his family in Mexico as well, and help his mom and dad and brother and sister. And he said, that's what you need to do to survive.

You can see all the workers now are gathering from all the different buildings, most of them all work at different sites, but they come together to eat and then sleep. And then they will be back at it on the fields in about 10, 11 hours from now.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: The Trump train on a revenge tour? This morning. President Trump refusing to rule out potentially launching an investigation against former President Biden. The president whipping up controversy on several subjects in the first Oval Office interview of his second term.

Plus, fallout over A.I., Trump's billionaire first buddy now slamming the president's new massive A.I. infrastructure investment. What this is all about.

And new wildfires erupting in southern California. Tens of thousands of people now under evacuation orders. An update on firefighters' progress just ahead.

I'm Sara Sidner with Kate Bolduan and John Berman. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, happening now, was this a threat to investigate former President Biden? This morning, huge questions after President Trump said some pretty cryptic things.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: The funny thing, maybe the sad thing, is he didn't give himself a pardon. I went through four years of hell by this scum that we had to deal with. It's really hard to say that they shouldn't have to go through it also. It is very hard to say that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, there are new public threats elsewhere as well, including from the leader of the Proud Boys, now granted clemency by President Trump. He is now vowing revenge.

Let's get right to CNN's Alayna Treene live at the White House this morning. As we said, President Trump said a lot of things. Was the intention to threaten an investigation against President Biden?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: I think it's unclear, but what we did hear him say clearly was that really toying with this idea of potentially wanting to open an investigation into Joe Biden. And I will note that that is a departure from what we've heard Donald Trump say in the past, just as recently as last month when he did an interview with NBC News. He said that he didn't believe that it was his decision. He would leave that decision up to his Justice Department about whether or not to open an investigation both into Biden, but also any Biden administration officials.

And so this is kind of a departure from that. It almost seemed like he was saying, look, they put me through all of this stuff over the last several years. It seems like I'm due retribution. I'd also note that on the campaign trail, we heard Donald Trump say that he believed retribution was his success. So again, this is different from what we've heard him say before, but very much still unclear whether or not he's actually calling for an investigation into Joe Biden.

But as you mentioned, John, there is a lot that was covered in this. You talked about January 6th and some of the pardons that Donald Trump made. He did address that as well in this interview with Hannity. I want you to take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: Most of the people were absolutely innocent. OK, but forgetting all about that, these people have served horribly a long time. Some of those people with the police, true. But they were very minor incidents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, John, as you could hear him there still defending those pardons and commutations for the January 6th convicts on Monday, but also addressing some of the concerns that people have raised about how some police officers are not happy with that decision. Again, Donald Trump arguing that he stands by them.

I'd also note that we had some reporting that's come about, out over the last 24 hours that Donald Trump and his administration officials have been considering potentially inviting some of those people that he had pardoned who played a role in the January 6th Capitol attack to the White House. So, again, just to take a step back with all of these different moves

and all of what he told Hannity, it's clear that Donald Trump is moving at a very clipped pace -- or a very fast pace, maybe the fastest in modern history, to really deliver on a lot of the things that he said he would do. And many of them, including the January 6th pardons, what he's talking about doing with sending thousands of active duty troops to the border. I mean, all of this is really designed as well to deliver on the promises he made to his base. John?

[08:05:01]

BERMAN: All right, Alayna Treene at the White House. It is interesting, as David Axelrod pointed out, though, whether Donald Trump might be miscalculating. He thinks he was elected because of what he had been saying about January 6th. There are those who think he was elected in spite of it. We'll see. Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now to talk about that, CNN political director and Washington bureau chief David Chalian. It's good to see you, David. So the president, that soundbite we played about the president talking about not ruling out investigating the former president, Joe Biden. What do you think the impact of that really is?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I mean, I'm sure your ears perked up watching it as mine did. I was it was like not entirely clear, but yet quite clear.

BOLDUAN: Exactly. That's a perfect way of putting it.

CHALIAN: That he was suggesting that Joe Biden made a mistake by not giving himself a pardon. Well, why would that be? Why would that be a mistake? And then he noted, again, without any facts or evidence that supports this, he says, you know, all the money, business relationships that were being looked at ended up with Joe Biden. There's no evidence of that.

But it is clear that he is still smarting, he, the president, is still smarting over what he went through the last four years of investigations, indictments, conviction. And this is part of, his driving force, this -- part of his greatest political comeback, I mean, he said it on the campaign trail. I am your retribution. And he sees this as an opportunity now to sort of check through a list of payback. And he's emboldened to do so.

He's a term limited president, assuming, assuming the Constitution doesn't change. He's never shown a ton of import or respect for building the Republican Party. It's been about Trump's brand. So I'm not sure he's all that concerned about downstream political ramifications for his decision making. And I just think, I'm not suggesting he will absolutely launch an investigation into Joe Biden, Kate. But clearly, he wanted to throw that sort of chum in the water and keep it out there as a possibility.

BOLDUAN: And so this was his first big sit down interview in the Oval Office. And with that, it's a real statement of priorities, at least where he is right now. What did you what did you take from that whole interview, that whole sit down and what it says about his focus as he takes office?

CHALIAN: We've seen, I think, a bit of a bifurcated few days thus far. There has been a really aggressive focus if you go through all the executive orders and a lot of the. Public comments on immigration, which he believes and he has said is his very life force of a political issue since he came down the escalator nearly 10 years ago and launched his political career. And he sees that as an issue that voters absolutely affirmed tis point of view on this election. So I think on the policy front, you see immigration front and center, far more so than the economy thus far.

But what is also clear is that he is still the Donald Trump wea all know him to be, which is consumed by personal grievance. And he thinks his return to the Oval Office means that this is payback time. Payback favors for those that stuck with him, and perhaps payback in terms of retribution against those that were opposed to him.

BOLDUAN: When it comes to the economy, the thing that sticks with me is you saw it almost right after the election. When he's campaigning, David, he could bring prices down and he's going to bring him down fast. It's going to happen on day one. Right after the election, the message completely changed to what is the reality, which is it is tough for any action by any president to impact the economy and to and to impact prices. So that, it's almost like that is part of the undercurrent of the message in terms of priority or not being in the foreground or in the background for him.

Also, then then I want to ask you about FEMA. Hes traveling to California tomorrow to see fire damage there. You're also going to be in North Carolina seeing what still is devastating storm damage there. In this interview, he talked about, I think the way he put it was wanting states to take care of their own problems instead of looking to the federal government and FEMA. What do you make of that?

CHALIAN: Yes. He was arguing, I think, that FEMA is far too bureaucratic, too much red tape to go through, and he wants to clear that out of the way. The question is, who pays the bill? States don't have unlimited resources the way the federal government does. This is part of why Joe Biden told Gavin Newsom before he left office that the federal government would take up the full bill for getting Los Angeles back on its feet. It sounded to me in the interview last night when he said, you know, we really need to get FEMA out of the way and let the states drive this. To me, it sort of begs the question, OK, but who's paying that bill? And how are the states going to be able to afford everything they need to do, both in North Carolina and in California, to get their residents whole again and back on their feet? That I don't think we heard a full explanation on.

[08:10:07]

BOLDUAN: Yes, it's money, it's the bill. And also, it's the manpower and the resources of getting people on the ground to assist people in the immediate and the long term in their recovery. I mean, you have FEMA still working in these storm-ravaged states and in Florida and North Carolina trying to help people recover still.

David, it's good to see you. Thank you.

CHALIAN: You, too.

BOLDUAN: Sara?

SIDNER: All right, ahead, new details on President Trump's plan to send thousands more troops to the southern border as part of his aggressive crackdown on immigration.

And much more ahead on those new wildfires raging this morning near Los Angeles. Crews saying firefighting conditions are getting better, but they're not out of the woods yet.

And yet another development in the battle between Blake Lively and director/actor Justin Baldoni. One side wants to take the issue to court, and soon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:15:33]

SIDNER: All right, breaking overnight, firefighters are racing to contain two new fires raging out of control in Southern California.

The so-called Hughes Fire in Castaic exploded in size yesterday, pushing thousands of people to evacuate near there.

And overnight, a brush fire named the Sepulveda Fire erupted right across from the Getty Museum. It has charred roughly 40 acres now, and drivers on the 405 could see the flames as they drove by.

The new fires adding to the already heavy workload of firefighters who are still trying to contain both the Palisades and Eaton Fires. Despite all of that, President Trump is now threatening to withhold federal aid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't think we should give California anything until they let water flow down into their --

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST, "HANNITY": That's from the north to the south.

TRUMP: This is a political thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: The president will be visiting California tomorrow.

CNN's Josh Campbell is in Los Angeles with the very latest on these fires.

And Josh, let us know kind of what you --

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Active firefighter containment efforts continue here in Los Angeles, that's because yet another wildfire popped up overnight. This one being called the Sepulveda Fire. You can see behind me as crews are working on those containment efforts.

At the height of this firefighting attack, there were up to 250 firefighters, authorities tell us.

Right now, they have stopped forward movement progress, have it to 40 acres, but we don't have any containment numbers just yet. This area near several homes so far, just dense brush. This appears to be what caught on fire. Now, just north of where we are here, firefighters continue to battle another blaze, the so-called Hughes Fire that kicked off yesterday.

We saw numerous firefighters being deployed, aerial assets, the Chinook helicopters, the Blackhawk helicopters making those water drops to several thousand people continue to be under mandatory evacuation there.

Authorities say that fire has now ballooned to over 10,000 acres. One LA County fire official told us that fortunately there is some difference between that fire and the deadly fires we recently saw here in LA.

SHEILA KELLIHER, LOS ANGELES COUNTY FIRE, CAPTAIN: It's a completely different beast. It's a different fire with the wind. So that's the good news about this fire.

We're fortunate because we can dip right out of Castaic Lake, so we've got a lot of water up there. There's a lot of resources as far as where we can fill up our helicopters and fixed wing crafts and stuff. So, we've got plenty of water to fight this fire.

CAMPBELL: Now, authorities say the containment numbers on that Hughes Fire right now in the double digits. If there's any good news in this terrible situation because of those deadly fires in Palisades and Eaton, this area has been flooded with resources from surrounding states, as well as Mexico and Canada, all here on standby because we're still under these red flag high wind warnings. That is expected to continue until Friday. Until then, a city very much on edge.

Back to you.

BERMAN: All right, our thanks to Josh Campbell for that.

With us now is the CAL FIRE Battalion Chief, David Acuna. Chief, thank you so much for being with us. Let's take these in parts. Let's start with the Sepulveda Fire. What's the latest there?

DAVID ACUNA, CAL FIRE BATTALION CHIEF: Well, thank you so much for having me on this morning. So, as your reporter mentioned, it's forward progress has been stopped. That's LA City Fire. So they have their own containment objectives and being so close to the 405, I'm sure they're wrapping it up quickly.

BERMAN: Okay, that is good news. That was a smaller fire but it was near a lot of populated areas that people know well. The other fire near Castaic Lake, Santa Clarita. What's the latest from there?

ACUNA: Yes, so that's the Hughes Fire by Castaic Lake in the Castaic area. And for that one, we have 14 percent containment, a little over 10,000 acres.

It is actually what we might consider a more traditional wildland fire, you know, running through the grass and brush, pushed by winds down, using the red flag winds that we knew were going to be present.

And we have to point out that those are not gone. We will continue to have red flag warning through Friday. So, we're not out of the woods by any means yet. And there's a potential for another one next week. So, we just need everyone to be braced and ready to evacuate if needed.

BERMAN: Any damage to structures? Any word of injuries this morning?

[08:20:01]

ACUNA: We don't have any reports of structure damage or injuries, but as we transition in the morning, we'll have a better idea of what's going on.

More importantly, we had all the surge resources available. In fact, some of the Cal Fire strike teams were staged out there in Santa Clarita and were able to immediately respond and assist with the fire fight.

BERMAN: You talked about the fact that there were red flag warnings for the next few days. Can you get more specific about what your concerns are in the coming days and into next week, you said.

ACUNA: Well, you know, the problem with red flag warnings is that we have this wind that comes out of the desert. Now, normally in a season where we've had plenty of rain, not a big deal. It's like, oh, okay, well there's some wind, but we've had sufficient rain.

Right now, the fuel moistures, the grass and brush, how dry they are is as dry as if it were July or August. So, even though the temperature is cold, the humidity is very, very low. The real moisture is very low. And now, any fire is going to move very quickly.

BERMAN: President Trump is going to be in California tomorrow. What's your request from the federal government?

ACUNA: So, each of the incidents is filing their own reports, their own requests for federal management assistance grants. And so, as they move forward in that process, I'm sure that they're making sure that they look at what their needs are in the moment, not only for fighting the fire, but also as we move towards the protective actions to make sure that we don't have any flooding, mudslides and going down into the Los Angeles basin. BERMAN: And as we're looking at these new fires that erupted overnight, both the one closer to LA City and Sepulveda and the one up in the lake area there. What about the fire near Altadena and Pasadena? What about the fire in Pacific Palisades? Are they completely no concern anymore?

ACUNA: Well, they won't be a no concern for quite a while because as the containment from the fire increases, we are now transitioning into a suppression repair where our watershed emergency response teams go in and assess what repairs need to be made to the hillsides, to the drainages, so that when it rains, it goes off in an appropriate direction and doesn't build up, causing debris flows and mudslides down to homes.

We saw this in 2017 with the Thomas Fire that transitioned in 2018 in the Montecito mudslides. And so, were doing everything we can to mitigate those issues.

BERMAN: The work goes on. David Acuna, Chief, thank you so much for keeping us so well informed. We appreciate the work you're doing -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, an e-mail sending shockwaves through the scientific community. Is the Trump administration pressing pause on biomedical research?

And Elon Musk is questioning and criticizing the big AI investment announcement coming just yesterday by President Trump. How the White House is now responding.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:30]

BOLDUAN: Thousands more active duty US troops are now being ordered to the southern border days after President Trump declared a National Emergency at the border. The initial wave is expected to be around 1,500 troops, with more troops expected to follow in the coming weeks and months.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez has much more on this for us. She's joining us now. Good morning, Priscilla.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate. This is really a show of force by the Trump administration along the US southern border. There are already troops who are helping US Border Patrol along the border but this is going to be in addition to that, with those 1,500 and perhaps more to follow.

So, what are they going to do? Well, they're going to be focused on operational readiness, on augmenting air operations, on providing intelligence support when it comes to assessing threats and the flow of migrants, a lot of work that can be done and is often done behind the scenes.

But in addition to all of that, they are also sending military aircraft today to San Diego and to El Paso to repatriate those who are already in Border Patrol custody. That would mean, those recent border crossers who can be quickly repatriated to their origin countries. So, they will be using military aircraft to do that.

Now, the border is relatively quiet. I'm told that there are just between 1,100 to 1,300 crossings a day that is far below. When it was six thousand, eight thousand, twelve thousand before.

So, this is going to be a way to augment support along the US southern border, but it also comes at a time when crossings are lower than where they've been before and also as the administration has essentially sealed off the border to asylum seekers -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: The president and his border czar are also talking about trying to basically cancel sanctuary cities or pull funding from sanctuary cities. What is the latest on this?

ALVAREZ: They have been targeting sanctuary cities over the course of the campaign, but even during Donald Trump's first term. These are cities that limit cooperation with federal immigration enforcement authorities. In other words, they do not, or they limit their information sharing with those authorities.

Now, as you mentioned, Tom Homan has often criticized them and as has the president. He mentioned them during an interview with Sean Hannity last night, suggesting that he would keep federal funding from those cities. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're trying to get rid of them, and we're trying to end them and a lot of the people in those communities don't want them. You know, California is a big example --

HANNITY: Would you cut off their money?

TRUMP: I might have to do that. Sometimes that's the only thing you can do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, he made a similar threat during his first term. This could be detrimental to cities and states, particularly in moments of natural disaster. See California as an example of that as have fought these fires. But this effort is already underway, perhaps in other ways, which is to say, the Justice Department sending out a memo yesterday saying that they would threaten, or rather, they would -- the plans to crack down on immigration if state and local officials do not help in those plans, if they get in the way of those plans, they threaten to prosecute those state and local officials.

So, you can start to see how their plans are coming together to go after these cities, which they have said get in the way of their immigration enforcement goals.

[08:30:52]