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Trump Talks Jan. 6 Pardons, Immigration, Biden in Oval Office Interview; Trump Targets Federal Workers Who Focus on DEI; Trump's Bid to End Birthright Citizenship Faces Legal Challenges; Fast-Spreading Hughes Fire Racing in Los Angeles County. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 23, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Peak is going to cost you a bit more if you want to try to scale it. Nepal admits it will increase the permit fee to climb Mount Everest to 15,000 bucks during its busy season. Mountain climbing generates huge amounts of money for that country's economy. This is the first price hike in nearly a decade.

[09:00:19]

A new hour of CNN News Central starts right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, new wildfires erupting in Southern California, tens of thousands of people now under evacuation orders.

Major questions this morning after President Trump issues what could be a threat to investigate former President Biden. And the Oscar nominations just announced, spawning everyone's favorite debate, what was the most egregious snub?

I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. This is CNN News Central.

Kate BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So was it a threat? Was it not a threat, as John Berman poses? It's not exactly clear, but also kind of definitely clear on what exactly he meant. But one thing is for sure, President Trump may be open now to investigating former President Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), U.S. PRESIDENT: The funny thing, maybe the sad thing, is he didn't give himself a pardon. I went through four years of hell by this scum that we had to deal with. It's really hard to say that they shouldn't have to go through it also. It is very hard to say that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That just part of a wide-ranging interview by President Trump, of President Trump, his first Oval Office TV interview of his second term.

Let's get to Alayna Treene. She's got much more on that from the White House. And it was talking with David Chalian last hour, Alayna, and in that interview, it helps to show the President's focus early on, his priorities as he begins this term, not just, we know from his executive orders, but also his focus in these first few weeks. What are your big takeaways from it?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I think that's absolutely right. His rhetoric is really showing that so much of what he's been doing, which is three days so far in office, has been really geared toward his base and delivering on things that they want, between the January 6th pardons, him gutting DEI programs, sending thousands of active-duty troops to the border, all of that playing into this. And then, of course, in that interview last night with Sean Hannity, opening the door to really going after some of his political opponents and suggesting perhaps that former President Joe Biden should be investigated.

And I will say as well that that is a departure from what Donald Trump has said in the past on this. Just last month, he did an interview with "NBC News" where he said that he believed it would be up to his Justice Department. He would allow his Justice Department to decide whether or not Joe Biden and some of the Biden administration officials, who he felt wrongly investigated him over the past few years, should face their own type of prosecutions and investigations.

So I think what's very clear right now is that the big priority, just going back to your original question, Kate, that Donald Trump has right now is kind of delivering on what his base wants. This -- this idea of going after and looking into Joe Biden with investigations, is definitely something I can tell you from my, you know, two years on the trail talking to Trump supporters at these rallies, that they've been wanting and asking for.

BOLDUAN: Alayna, great to see you. Thank you very much.

Sara?

SIDNER: All right. Joining us now, Senior Political Correspondent for PUCK, Tara Palmeri, and former Trump Administration Official Matt Mowers. Thank you both for being here early this morning.

Matt, I want to talk about what appears to be a revenge tour at the beginning, in the last first few days of President Trump's leadership. Speaker Mike Johnson has just announced a new select subcommittee to continue investigating January 6th. And I guess my question to you is, Republicans have been saying, look, the public didn't ultimately care a great deal about what happened on January 6th or the political fallout. They put Trump back in office. So why then are Republicans wanting to spend the time and effort to investigate January 6th still?

MATT MOWERS, FORMER TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Well, largely, they feel like it's part of the commitment that was made on the campaign trail. I mean, you can agree or disagree with it and you can say what you want about it. But Donald Trump and Republicans were pretty transparent throughout the course of the campaign that they were going to look to what they believe were injustices in the process of whether it was the January 6th committee, whether it's what the Department of Justice did and the charges brought against President Trump, and that he was going to append the bureaucracy and disrupt the process in the Justice Department.

And that's why millions of Americans, not every single one of his voters, but millions of Americans decide they want to vote for him or are passionate about doing so. They believed he did face injustice over the last four years, and that was among the reasons they were so vocally supportive of him, both in the Republican primary and then showed up really in record numbers for him in November.

[09:05:12]

SIDNER: Polling wise, though, it wasn't anywhere near a main reason. It was the economy and immigration as well. And I'm curious as to why you think we haven't heard a whole lot about the economy and prices and trying to get those down. But we have heard a whole lot about pardons and retribution. Do you think that is good for Republicans going forward? Tara, I'll send that to you.

MOWERS: Well, Sara, you know, you talked about the economy, you talk about immigration. I mean, I think we've heard quite a bit about certainly immigration, but also the economy in the last few days as well. And so, you know, it is important to contextualize what we've seen.

Yes, there's discussions about pardons. There's discussions about, you know, ensuring that there is accountability at the Justice Department. But we've heard extensive conversations, seen extensive action from President Trump and his administration to secure the southern border, whether it's moving troops down to the southern border, the executive order to reinstate the "Remain in Mexico" policy, the energy policies, which are going to drive down the cost of fuel and gas, which ultimately will also drive down the cost of goods.

And so, you know, let's remember, he signed almost 200 executive actions on Monday. Only a small number were in reference to, you know, the pieces we just discussed. Many of them were really about the economy and immigration.

SIDNER: One of the big ones that caught a lot of the public's eye was the pardoning, including members of Congress, of people who were convicted of rioting and of violence at the Capitol in January 6th. And I just want to understand how Republicans, Tara, are dealing with this, because one of them met with the former leader of the Oath Keepers, who was convicted of seditious conspiracy and had his -- Trump commuted his sentence.

Here is what he said when he was asked about being on Capitol Hill and having a meeting with a congressperson, a Republican.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART RHODES, OATH KEEPERS FOUNDER: What did I do on January 6th that caused them harm? Did I touch any officer? Show me the video of you punching anybody. I didn't touch anyone. I stood outside. I exercised my right to free speech. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: He was convicted of conspiring, a helping plan, if you will, to have his other members go in and try and disrupt the peaceful transfer of power.

I'm curious, Tara, what you see going forward in this case with the officers and the members of Congress who are now having to live with some of these rioters coming in and having comfortable conversations with their counterparts.

TARA PALMERI, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, PUCK: Yes. I mean, it's extremely brazen. They're returning to the scene of a crime, essentially. And I think that these Oath Keepers, these members of the January 6th Choir, the people that Donald Trump say are, like the members who are invited into the White House, reportedly, I mean, they have an elevated status among his following and his base. I mean, he's basically saying, if you fight to the death for me or if you go out there and rally and you charge forward for me, I'll protect you. And he's giving car plunge to anyone, really, to commit political violence.

And I mean, I think that this could be a movement that goes even further, that they not only may get their pardons and commutations, but that they'll feel empowered to like run for office, to organize. I mean, this could be like the next wave of like a tea party or something like that. But Trump has certainly empowered them.

I mean, the decisions you make on day one, they set the tone for your agenda. And it was clear that the agenda was, you know, retribution and pardon his followers. And whoever is willing to fight for him, doesn't matter what they do, they will get a pardon.

SIDNER: Tara, your dog has a lot to say about this. And we will talk to your dog just a bit later, perhaps to try to decode. It's all good. We love dogs on this show. It's all good.

PALMERI: I know. I'm trying to listen to both of you.

SIDNER: All right. Let's move on to DEI and what is happening there. Trump isn't just targeting the federal government, DEI initiatives and employees.

One of the executive's orders extends power to investigate private businesses for their DEI practices. His executive order says each federal agency will identify up to nine potential civil compliance investigations, which could include publicly traded corporations, nonprofits and others.

Matt, what is the obsession with crushing folks who have historically been treated unfairly, paid less and not given equal opportunity and now extending this out to private business? Is this a surprise to you?

MOWERS: Well, it's actually I'll disagree with the premise there, Sara, because in fact, by limiting DEI programs, you're actually creating an equal playing field. You're saying everyone should be valued for their merits and their contributions, regardless of skin color and ethnicity or sexual orientation. And so they're restoring merit to the process in the federal government. And there has been a --

[09:10:18]

SIDNER: Let me just quickly ask you, why do you assume -- why do you assume that when you say DEI, that that means those people don't have merit that aren't there because of merit as well?

MOWERS: Well, Sara, you've seen President Trump actually nominated very diverse cabinet. You've seen him both -- both times he's been president. You've seen him bring in a diverse subcabinet, White House staff, and they have been all been chosen not because of how they look, but because of how they perform.

And that's really what the American people voted for. Donald Trump, in large reason, of course, because they're looking to ensure that the federal government is bringing the best and the brightest and brightest. And yes, that's going to be diverse because the best and the brightest are going to look like America. But you shouldn't just be selecting individuals solely because of how they how they look, not because of how they perform.

SIDNER: So why is their assumption that they do not merit their jobs?

PALMERI: OK, sorry, I just have to jump real quick.

SIDNER: Go ahead, Tara.

PALMERI: How -- yeah, yeah. How is the Trump cabinet diverse? Like, please explain that to me.

MOWERS: You've got -- you've got a number of women. You've got African-Americans. You name it. All of the cabinet. Actually, you know, I don't know if it's a record number of women in the cabinet.

PALMERI: One, two, maybe, a handful, maybe five.

MOWERS: If you compare it actually to President Biden, President Obama, Donald Trump has, I believe, more women or just about as many women as any other cabinet. But the larger point is this, which is that the American people are saying we want to have the best and brightest, regardless of how you look, serving.

And so, look, I've served in Donald Trump's State Department. We've put in place policies that said you did have to consider candidates who didn't necessarily look like each other or have the same background. But you never mandated that someone had to be hired just because of their race or their gender. That's -- that's discrimination.

And what we've seen through some of these DEI programs is actually embedding discrimination in federal hiring practices. That's antithetical to how we are as Americans. It's the reason why Donald Trump is trying to root it out of the federal government. And by the way, there's a belief that if you're a publicly traded company, you have a legal protection given to you because you're supposed to be looking out for the interests of your shareholders. You're more interested in possibly a program that's focused on social program. You're not actually upholding the legality of the construct of getting special protections as a corporation. That's why you're seeing the administration approach that as well.

SIDNER: The corporations would push back on that and wonder why Republicans who have historically not been about having government entering into business are now asking for government to enter into business on this subject.

Tara Palmeri and Matt Mowers, thank you so much for the discussion. Appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right. New this morning, Justice Department putting local officials on notice. Interfere with the president's immigration enforcement and you could face federal charges.

Two new wildfires in Los Angeles counties have forced thousands to evacuate. And a search for answers in Nashville after a student opened fire in his high school cafeteria, killing a 16-year-old girl.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:17:21]

BOLDUAN: A centerpiece now of President Donald Trump's immigration crackdown also involves a challenge to the U.S. Constitution. Moving to end birthright citizenship, a move that sparked some of the first lawsuits against his new administration. The most serious challenge coming from a coalition of 18 Democratic-led states and two cities saying in this legal challenge that his executive order violates the 14th Amendment of the Constitution, which enshrined birthright citizenship in the Constitution more than a century and a half ago in 1868.

Joining me right now is one of the attorneys general involved in this lawsuit, the Attorney General of Colorado, Phil Weiser, who's also a Democratic candidate running for governor in Colorado.

Attorney General, thank you for coming in. Why are you and why is Colorado joining this fight against the president's move on birthright citizenship?

PHIL WEISER, COLORADO ATTORNEY GENERAL: Kate, this is first and foremost about people right now who are really concerned. If you're here and you have an H-1B visa and you have a child under the Constitution, a child born here is a citizen, this order would end that and make someone without documentation and vulnerable to deportation who's born here.

The American story is one of inclusion. I am, myself, the child of refugees who came here. My mom and grandparents survived the Holocaust. And that's the American story. And so many of us who are first-generation Americans feel this because it's sending a message that is unconstitutional and wrong. And the idea that the President could seek to overrule the 14th Amendment with an executive order just goes against our system. It's illegal. And we're going to win in court.

BOLDUAN: And it is going to go to court. We're going to follow it very closely with 18 attorneys general all getting together to push this forward. And you move very quickly.

There's other elements of the President's immigration crackdown that have real impact on Colorado. Another part of this crackdown is Trump's effort to end sanctuary cities. The president and his border czar made that very clear just yesterday. Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM HOMAN, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION "BORDER CZAR": Sanctuary cities are going to get exactly what they don't want. More agents in the communities, more people arrested, more collateral arrested. So that's a game they want to play? Game on.

DONALD TRUMP (R), U.S. PRESIDENT: We're trying to get rid of them and we're trying to end them. And a lot of the people in those communities don't want them. You know, California is a big example.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Would you cut off their money?

TRUMP: I might have to do that. Sometimes that's the only thing you can do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Denver is one example of being a so-called sanctuary city. And I saw the mayor of Denver say that Denver is the single largest recipient city of migrants per capita of any in the country after migrants started being bused away from the border. What can the administration do to cities like Denver? What will you do to stop them?

[09:20:21]

WEISER: Well, that last comment you had the president say, cut off the money, that is illegal. That is unconstitutional. The Tenth Amendment protects states as sovereign. And that means the federal government can't make us do things like immigration enforcement.

In Colorado, our law enforcement enforces the laws. We have public safety as the mission. If immigration enforcement officials come here, they do their work, they can do that. But what they can't do is try to force our cities, our law enforcement to do their work for them.

We had to go to court in the first Trump administration on that same principle because they tried to cut off funding then, and we won. We'll do that again if we have to. BOLDUAN: One thing that I've heard a lot of alarm about is Tuesday the Trump administration announced that immigration officers will now be able to arrest migrants in places like schools, reversing the enforcement guidance that I've seen has been in place for over a decade. Are ICE officers going to be allowed on Colorado school grounds?

WEISER: The schools in Colorado have, in many cases, said if you want to be here in a school, you've got to be authorized to be here. And that means if there's a legal justification, that's one thing, but if it's harassment, that's another. I want to add to your concern courts because that's another area that we're really concerned about.

We've got a law in Colorado that makes clear that our courts are safe spaces. If someone is coming as a witness to testify, they can't and shouldn't be afraid that they might be subject to some immigration enforcement action that could deter them from doing something that's core to public safety. So the idea of intimidation that is behind this, whether it's schools or courts, is something we're very concerned about.

BOLDUAN: Attorney General, is there any -- is there any gray area here in terms of schools? Schools and churches seem particularly -- they're considered sensitive locations. Is there any gray area? I mean, can you assure students and families and school administrators in Colorado that ICE officers will not be setting foot on school grounds? It almost feels like there is a little bit of gray area in what I'm hearing from you.

WEISER: The challenge that you're putting your finger on is if there is an ICE officer who has a legal justification, a warrant, the ability to take someone into custody, they shouldn't exercise it at school. It's wrong because what it's going to do is deter people from going to school. But when someone has a legal justification to be at a school, it's going to be hard to stop them from being there.

And I think this gets to a point that I want to emphasize. There are lots of ways we can manage our immigration laws. By the rule of law and by sound administration, it would be you have a legal process, it gets the result, and you handle it in an appropriate and professional way.

The idea of making it a fear-mongering campaign and demonizing immigrants is going to create a lot of damage. It should not be the way we treat people. It's not right and it's not fair.

BOLDUAN: Attorney General of Colorado Phil Weiser, thank you for coming in.

Sara?

SIDNER: All right, ahead, thousands, tens of thousands of people have been told to evacuate their homes as two new fast-moving wildfires are raging near Los Angeles.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It happened real fast. Like, it was like a little bit of fire, and then we went outside like that, and there was a lot of fire. Like, it was crazy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:28:24]

BERMAN: All right, breaking this morning, a new concern in Southern California is still dealing with the erupting wildfires. Officials are preparing for rain this weekend that could bring mudslides and dangerous debris flow. That's why they're filling up sandbags right there.

Before that, though, new fires creating new dangers. One is burning right up along the 405 freeway across from the Getty Center. Another, not far from Santa Clarita, has spread quickly to more than 10,000 acres.

Just a short time ago, Cal Fire's battalion chief talked to us about the current conditions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID ACUNA, BATTALION CHIEF, CAL FIRE: Right now, the fuel moistures, the grass and brush, how dry they are, is as dry as if it were July or August. So even though the temperature is cold, the humidity is very, very low. The fuel moisture is very low. And now any fire is going to move very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Let's get right to seeing as Josh Campbell up north near the Santa Clarita fires. Josh, what are you seeing this morning?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what you see behind me is what residents of Los Angeles, those of us who live here, has now become all too common. Members of the National Guard have been deployed across the county because of all these fires that we've seen over the past couple of weeks.

We're now at the command post, a multi-agency effort for the so-called Hughes Fire. This is that massive fire that erupted up here north yesterday, that ballooning to over 10,000 acres. Authorities still trying to bring that to some sense of containment. Thousands of people, 31,000 to be specific, are currently under mandatory evacuation.

So a lot of challenging efforts still ahead for authorities here. They worked throughout the night using helicopters, using the Chinooks and the Black Hawks in order to try to douse those flames with water.

[09:30:07]

One thing we're hearing from authorities is that, you know.