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Judge Says He Will Block Trump's Executive Order Ending Birthright Citizenship; Interview with Rep. Don Bacon (R-NE) About Birthright Citizenship and Immigration; GOP Senator Murkowski Will Vote No On Hegseth For Defense Secretary; Police: "Very Concerning" Posts Linked to Tennessee High School Shooter. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired January 23, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[13:31:48]

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Breaking news just coming in to us here at CNN. A judge says he will block President Trump's executive order ending the constitutional right to birthright citizenship. CNN's Joan Biskupic is following these developments for us and joins me now. So, Joan, some pretty clear language from this judge.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN CHIEF SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Definitely, Erica. And it was just a few minutes ago, I was there with you on set saying the hearing had just started. But also saying that this is a really steep hill for the Trump administration to climb to try to enforce this executive order against birthright citizenship.

And what the judge just said today from the bench is, I have been on the bench for over four decades. I can't remember another case whether the question presented was as clear as this one. And he said that the birthright citizenship executive order that Donald Trump signed within, you know, hours of taking the oath of office for the second time, it is blatantly unconstitutional. And he was going to temporarily block -- block that order.

So first -- first of Donald Trump's many missives that he took on Monday and that he took on Tuesday, this is the first one that's been blocked, but it's also the one that is, frankly, at this point, Erica, predictable because this order that would negate more than a century's -- century of protection for anyone born in the U.S. to become a citizen. It really does fly in the face of precedent. Erica.

HILL: Joan, really appreciate it. Thank you.

BISKUPIC: Sure.

HILL: Let's discuss this and much more with Don Bacon of Nebraska. The congressman joining me now from Capitol Hill.

Congressman, good to have you with us. So I hope that you could hear --

REP. DON BACON (R-NE): Hi, Erica. HILL: -- Joan in your ear there. The -- the breaking news that we're just getting is that this was a steep hill, as Joan put out. But the judge there saying that it is blatantly unconstitutional and has now blocked President Trump's executive order to end birthright citizenship. I'm just curious. Your reaction to that?

BACON: I suspect it is unconstitutional. The Supreme Court has ruled on this decades and decades ago. I assume it's probably going back to the Supreme Court. But I think if the president wants to get this resolved the way he wants to, it will have to require a constitutional amendment, I believe. This has been ruled on many years ago, decades ago. And I think we're probably going down the same path.

HILL: How much support do you think there would be in Congress to take a look at it --

BACON: Well, I think --

HILL: -- to your point?

BACON: -- when the 14th Amendment was done, I don't think people assume that a lot of folks who travel here to have babies, to have citizenship, and I know that's exaggerated, but it does happen. So I think there's probably going to be some support for trying to revise what the 14th Amendment did. I -- as for myself, I'd rather be a good listener for a while. Take the pros and cons, but this will probably be -- be ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. And if we want to fix it, it will have to be a constitutional amendment.

HILL: All right. I also want to get what we're talking about. Immigration. In response to the Department of Justice's directive that prosecutors should investigate local or state officials who would stand in the way of enforcing federal immigration law.

Omaha's police chief noted that his department would continue to do its job, which he pointed out is not immigration enforcement. But when pressed about the possibility of federal officials insisting on help, he said, and I'm quoting him here, "The federal government can't come one day and give a directive to the Omaha police chief, to the mayor, to say, this is what you're going to do."

[13:35:10]

Do you believe he's right? Or should local law enforcement be investigated, even if they don't have the authority to enforce those immigration violations?

BACON: You know, I haven't had a chance to talk to the mayor or the chief of police. They're both my friends. And I know this happened just a few days ago.

I know their concern is they don't want people in Omaha to be afraid to call the police if there's a crime and say they're not a citizen. And so, they're trying to ensure that crimes are being reported. So I think that should be what that's -- that's what they're trying to take care of here. And they should try to maybe reemphasize that part. But I also believe that in the end, the chief and he's -- he's a good man. He's -- he's a friend of mine. If they have like criminal people who are here illegally, I think he would be cooperating.

So I presume he's going to clarify a little more what they mean on that, because I've been listening to the radio shows here in Washington, but the local radio and I've been hearing a lot of banter on this. And I think it probably needs some further clarification, but I know the purpose of what he said. He -- he wanted people to feel like they could call the police and say a crime was committed without fear of being deported.

HILL: And that was -- that was part of what was said in that -- in that press conference that that he wanted people to still feel that they could call on the police department --

BACON: Yes.

HILL: -- for those very reasons without worrying about their status. Do you think, though, that this directive, though, is it -- is it going too far?

BACON: Are you talking about from the Omaha or from the federal government?

HILL: No, from the federal government. The DOJ being told that they, you know, to go if there is not cooperation or if they are not, you know, enforcing this, that prosecutors could go after local and state officials.

BACON: Well, I think, what the top issue in this election, maybe the top 1 or 2, is this illegal immigration with 10 or 11 million people. I generally support what the president is doing here, because what happened in the last four years became the top issue in our country. And it cost, really, it cost Biden or Harris the election in the end. And I think it preserved the House and helped us win back the Senate. And the voters made it clear they wanted action taken.

Now, we can maybe disagree on some of the details here, but the president was elected to secure our border. And I think particularly if you're a criminal here illegally, you're going to be deported.

Now, there's going to be some debate on folks who don't fit that status. But in the end, Americans want legal immigration, not illegal immigration. That's what the president is acting on. And I think he's -- I am in general support of the president and what he's trying to do here.

HILL: You have said, I know that the pardons for January 6th should have been more targeted, in your view, that there should be accountability for rioters who hurt and attacked law enforcement. I know you met with the president yesterday. Did you bring that up in your meeting with him?

BACON: No. I talked about local issues, but I did talk to his staff, so they knew where I stood on this. And I agree with what Vice President Vance said that it should be targeted. If someone went into the -- the Capitol Building, like, say, there was an open door, some of the doors were open, they weren't committing vandalism, they didn't assault a police. I believe there should be mercy shown to someone like that.

However, if you assaulted a police officer, there were 140 cops that were injured that day. And I'm a pro law enforcement Republican congressman, you should be held accountable if you deface the Capitol. And I know in some cases, some of these folks defecated on the -- on the floor of the Capitol, these folks should be held accountable. Or maybe their sentences could have been commuted if you thought the sentences were too strong. But pardoning takes away the entire crime for folks in those categories.

So I think along with most Americans, we want to protect our police. We don't -- don't agree with vandalism. If some people are over prosecuted, let's deal -- deal with that. But I just think it was an overshot. But I must say this, Erica, the president did campaign on doing this. So he -- he campaigned on it. I disagreed with it. I contrast that with Joe Biden, who said he was against preemptive pardons. He said he was not going to pardon his son and didn't end up doing so. So I do think there's some differences there.

HILL: Before I let you go, while we're on the topic of January 6th, Speaker Johnson has said he's launching a subcommittee to investigate the January 6th committee. You have said that the investigation itself would be a lot of going backwards. What do you believe that subcommittee would achieve then, if anything, if it is in fact going backwards?

BACON: There are few things I would like to have known. Who put the pipe bombs in front of the NRCC and the DCCC? We weren't able to resolve that. And I would like one thing clarified. Who told the National Guard not to show up after they were invited to come. And I'd like to follow that in the chain of command and just have clarity there.

But I do think that we should be moving more forward than backwards on this. So we've been studying this now for four years. I opposed the Pelosi select committee. I supported the bipartisan committee, though, that -- or the bipartisan commission that we voted on first. I thought it was a fair way to go forward 50-50.

[13:40:00]

You'd have to have bipartisan support for subpoenas. That was not -- it did not pass. So then we ended up with a Pelosi select committee, and I thought it was maybe too partisan. But I think it is time to move forward. But there are some unanswered questions that I think America should -- would like to know.

HILL: Well, we will -- we will be watching to see what happens with that. Congressman Don Bacon, I appreciate your time this afternoon. Thank you.

BACON: Thank you. HILL: Well, investigators say they found alarming writings connected to the teenager who opened fire at a Tennessee high school. Could those writings also reveal a possible motive? That's ahead.

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We have breaking news just in to CNN and a key development for one of Donald Trump's most controversial nominations, Pete Hegseth, for secretary of defense.

[13:45:01]

HILL: CNN learning Alaska Senator Lisa Murkowski says she is a no on his nomination. CNN's Manu Raju is joining us now.

So, Manu, Republicans, as we know, have a very narrow majority in the Senate. What does this mean for Hegseth?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this has been very closely watched. What Lisa Murkowski ultimately would do. She's one of a handful of Republican senators who have not said how they would vote. And Murkowski is a perennial swing vote, particularly on controversial bills and on controversial nominations like Pete Hegseth.

And in a long statement that she just put out on X, she goes after Hegseth, raises questions about his character, raises questions about his experiences, fitness for the job, raises questions about allegations of personal misconduct, and statements that he made in the past, criticizing women in combat.

Now, this is what she said as part of this statement. She said, "After thorough evaluation, I must conclude that I cannot in good conscience support his nomination for Secretary of Defense. I did not make this decision lightly; I take my constitutional responsibility to provide advice and consent with the utmost seriousness."

Now she goes on to talk a lot more about a number of issues. She talks about these allegations in the past about sexual assault and excessive drinking and the like. Hegseth, of course, has denied that repeatedly, including at his confirmation hearing. But she said that -- that -- she said Mr. Hegseth has admitted to including infidelity -- infidelity on multiple occasions, which he says demonstrates a lack of judgment that is unbecoming of someone who would lead our armed forces. She really just raises concerns about character, about fitness and simply says he is not the right choice for the position.

Now, this vote is coming up this afternoon. A critical vote. It would be to clear a Democratic-led filibuster. In order to do that, they need to have a simple majority of senators, meaning in the 53-47 Senate, we expect all Democrats to vote no. That means that he can't afford to lose more than three Republican votes.

And now, with Murkowski, will there be two more or maybe three more Republicans who will vote no. At the moment, no other Republicans have announced their opposition. Someone to watch, Senator Susan Collins of Maine. She did indicate earlier today that she believes she may have enough information to make a decision on how to vote. She would not say how she would vote.

Another person we are watching Senate -- former Senate Republican leader and current Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell. I asked him yesterday and today how he would vote on Hegseth. He declined to comment. We'll see how he ultimately comes down. But even all that, Republican leaders are still confident that Hegseth will be confirmed by the end of this week, despite Murkowski's opposition, because they believe Republicans ultimately will fall in line.

SANCHEZ: And -- and Manu, when it comes to that procedural vote later this afternoon, what are we anticipating is going to happen there?

RAJU: Yes, that is simply to end debate. But it's a critical vote to end debate. It's to move to a final vote. And that is a straight party line vote is really all they need here. That's a simple majority, which means 51-49. It could be 50-50. That means if they lose three Republicans, JD Vance as the vice president, would come in and break the tie and give them enough votes, and then there will be 30 hours of debate, and then we get to a final confirmation vote by Friday night.

If there's not a deal to move the vote sooner. But that vote today is so critical, because if it does clear that critical hurdle, that means that he will ultimately be confirmed by tomorrow. So that's why we're watching this vote so crucially, in just about an hour.

SANCHEZ: Yes. You imagine that the vice president is going to hang closely --

HILL: Yes.

SANCHEZ: -- in case there is a 50-50 tie. Manu Raju, live on Capitol Hill. Thanks for the latest on that story. Still ahead on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, the latest on the investigation into a school shooting yesterday in Nashville. Details straight ahead.

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[13:53:25]

SANCHEZ: As investigators look into a possible motive behind the deadly Antioch, Tennessee High School shooting, officials have uncovered what they describe as a very concerning social media post and a series of them tied to the shooter. They also say the 17-year- old livestreamed himself inside the school just minutes before yesterday's attack. One student was killed and another injured before the shooter wound up taking his own life.

Let's get the latest from CNN's Ryan Young, who is following this story for us. Ryan, what do these posts entail?

RYAN YOUNG, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Boris, what this post entails, it looks like a red flag was there before the shooting happened. And in fact, you look at it, he was inspired by other school shooters. And of course, this was breaking news during your show yesterday.

In it, he talks about the fact that he detailed a plan not only of the school, but of the shooting itself. But instead of just talking about parts of this, Boris, if you take a listen to 20 seconds of the live stream of the shots being fired, you understand what these students, not only we're running from, but what they we're dealing with. Take a listen.

(PLAYS VIDEO CLIP OF TENNESSEE HIGH SCHOOL SHOOTING)

YOUNG: And Josselin Escalante, 17, was killed during that attack, Boris. And as we went through all this and listened to some of the sound that was coming out, parents being so concerned. Listen to this one student talking about witnessing this attack and the fact that there was nothing she could do as it unfolded right in front of her in a cafeteria around 11:00 a.m.

[13:55:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I witnessed it all. I saw the guy shoot himself. I saw him on the ground. I was in the line, stuck with my friend. I was freaking out, hyperventilating, everything. And I felt stressed, overwhelmed. I felt like my whole world was crumbling apart in my hands. And I didn't have my phone, so I couldn't call my mom. And so, I was really just there. And no one would know that I'm gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: Just there. There we're SROs in the campus. Those are officers. They weren't in the cafeteria. By the time they responded, this was all over. But, Boris, what's clear right now, as investigators are going through this is, something obviously was going on wrong in this young man's life that led to the shooting. As we get more, of course, we'll share it with you. Boris.

SANCHEZ: Ryan Young, thank you so much for that important update.

Stay with CNN NEWS CENTRAL as President Trump addresses global leaders in Davos, telling them to make their products in America or face tariffs. Much more in just moments.

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