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Coleman Hughes is Interviewed about the Anti-DEI Push; Art delaCruz is Interviewed about Helping Wildfire Recovery Efforts; Pandas Make Public Debut in Washington. Aired 9:30-10a ET
Aired January 24, 2025 - 09:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[09:30:13]
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we're going to show you live pictures. This is from Joint Base Andrews. You see the president and the first lady leaving Marine One, heading towards Air Force One, where they'll be heading off to Asheville, North Carolina, and then, of course, southern California.
Leaving the White House just before this, President Trump spoke to reporters.
Let's play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Hello, everybody. Thank you very much. Thank you. (INAUDIBLE) to North Carolina. It's been a horrible thing the way that's been allowed to fester. And we're going to get it fixed up. It should have been done months ago from the hurricane that took place almost four months ago.
North Carolina has been treated very badly. So, we're stopping there. And we're going to then go to Los Angeles and take a look at a fire that could have been put out if they let the water flow, but they didn't let the water flow. And they still haven't for whatever reason.
So, I think we're going to have a very interesting time. I think many of you are going with us. If you'd like to have a ride on the plane, we'd love to give it to you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, why didn't you fly Adam Schiff on your (INAUDIBLE)?
TRUMP: I don't know, is he - is he going? Is he going?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) know.
TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, I really don't know.
You know, because if he's going to be there, it would be cheaper. But I didn't invite him. Somebody did.
(CROSS TALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you be (INAUDIBLE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Pete Hegseth (INAUDIBLE) Republicans votes if they are so concerned about (INAUDIBLE)?
TRUMP: Look, whatever it is, it is. He's a good man. I don't know what's going to happen. You never know in those things.
But, Pete's a very, very good man. I hope he makes it. I hope he makes it. I was very surprised that Collins and Murkowski would do that. And,, of course, Mitch is always a no vote, I guess. Is Mitch a no vote? How about Mitch, huh?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He hasn't said yet?
TRUMP: He what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He hasn't said yet.
TRUMP: Let's see what happens.
(CROSS TALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, March for Live - Mr. President, the March for Live - the March for Live -
TRUMP: I've been a (INAUDIBLE) for the March for Life. And we look forward to seeing it. I'm going to be watching it. And J.D. Vance, our vice president, is there, and he's going to be representing us very well, taking place in a little while. And other than being a little bit cold, it's a beautiful.
(CROSS TALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, how will you (INAUDIBLE) - sir, how will your administration protect the pro-life (INAUDIBLE)?
TRUMP: Oh, we're all - we're all for it. In fact, as you know, I just signed a pardon. And in the pardon we released 23 people that were unjustly put in, having to do with pro-life. And they will be released and they'll be out very shortly. It was disgraceful what happened to them. That was a persecution.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) will you give - will you give Italy a break on tax - on tariffs?
TRUMP: Well, I like her very much. Let's see what happens.
Have a good time.
(CROSS TALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: All right, so that was the president leaving the White House just a short time ago. A couple interesting things there to note. According to reporters, you can't hear it because, of course, Marine One is making noise in the background. Reporters there at the White House had asked him about Adam Schiff going. Senator Adam Schiff going to L.A. As we have reported, Schiff's office said that Adam Schiff was invited to join the president to ride to California to view the fire zones. And Donald Trump saying right there, I didn't invite him. So, we'll get more to learn on that.
Also talking about Pete Hegseth and his nomination, his confirmation vote in the Senate - on the Senate floor later tonight. And he asked the question where, you know, is - is mitch a no vote? The latest reporting we have is that he's been on the fence, or at least uncommitted in terms of his announcement and how he will vote on a final vote for Pete Hegseth. Maybe - let's see what the president - what the president was wondering there aloud and what he was trying to signal. They can lose three Republicans total and still get Pete Hegseth's confirmation through.
Sara.
SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, the battle over DEI playing out in the government and in private business after Trump's sweeping executive orders banning DEI. This morning, Costco shareholders are pushing back against efforts to dismantle diversity, equity and inclusion policies. More than 98 percent of the company's shareholders voted down a proposal requesting a report on the risks of maintaining DEI initiatives. This was at their annual shareholders' meeting yesterday. The move sending a message on how some investors are viewing the value of corporate DEI programs, even after President Trump issued those executive orders.
Joining me now, Coleman Cruz Hughes. He is a conservative podcaster, a writer and a CNN political analyst.
[09:35:00]
Thank you so much for being here, Colman.
You argue in the - your latest write that Trump is ending racial preferences through DEI and America, you say, will be better off because of it. Why?
COLEMAN HUGHES, HOST, CONVERSATIONS WITH COLEMAN" PODCAST: DEI programs have been enormously unpopular. Affirmative action programs have been very unpopular because they discriminate against people on the basis of race. We saw this with the Asian students who sued Harvard. We saw that affirmative action has lost two referendums, one in the 90s and one just a few years ago in the blue state of California of all places. They're not popular because they also - they - instead of promoting people and hiring people based on merit, which is a - really a widely popular idea in America, and a deeply held American value, they encourage people to hire based on race and to enforce racial balances and de facto racial quotas. So, I think it's a good thing Trump is getting rid of this. I think it's long overdue.
SIDNER: There is the argument that you make about merit versus race- based hiring, but there are studies that go very much against that. The latest research of the effect of DEI, for example, in business from the massive research and consulting firm McKinsey (ph) shows, and I'm quoting here, "a strong business case for ethnic diversity is consistent over time," they've done these studies over and over, "with a 39 percent increased likelihood of outperformance for those in the top quartile of ethnic representation versus the bottom quartile." In other words, it is helping businesses compete and do better.
What do you say to proponents of DEI who point to the simple statistics and say, look, having a racially and gender diverse workforce is actually good for business?
HUGHES: Look, that's - that's their - it's their right to have that viewpoint. The problem comes with the law, because the plain text of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits large businesses from discriminating against potential racial hires. And people have been ignoring the plain text of the law. Even judges have been ignoring the plain text of the law. But at some point there has to be a kind of consistency in American public policy, not only for the sake of the law itself, but for the sake of businesses, because you don't want to put these private businesses through a situation where every four years the interpretation of the law is changing so much and - and they face lawsuits.
SIDNER: I do want to ask you about this. I went and looked up some statistics from the Federal Reserve of Minneapolis puts out some analysis. And in 2018, their latest, shows that U.S. incomes and wealth disparities, you know, the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis concluded that "the historical data revealed that no progress had been made in reducing income and wealth inequalities between black and white households over the past 70 years."
That is saying something. How do you think this should be tackled when you are saying, look, it shouldn't be done using DEI?
HUGHES: It should be done on the basis of income and class, not on the basis of race. This is an argument many people have been making for years. If the concern is that certain groups of people have a higher poverty rate, have less wealth, et cetera., the government has all of our tax returns and can treat us on the basis of class and socioeconomics if it has programs that can help uplift poor people. Not only would that not discriminate against people on the basis of race, it would actually target more closely the people in question. A lot of these affirmative action and DEI programs are targeting people in the top 1 percent, or the top 5 percent at most. People of color in the top 5 percent.
But we're not really talking about the problem you're highlighting here, which is poor people.
SIDNER: Yes. The only issue with your argument is that when it comes to who has wealth and who doesn't, it turns out that African Americans in this country have the largest disparity with their white counterparts. And so, they would fall very much into line with the argument you're making that those who have less money, those who are poor, should be given some kind of help and attention. Coleman Hughes, thank you so much for talking that out through with
me, and it's interesting to hear your analysis.
John.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: OK, this morning, Los Angeles is facing a new threat of possible landslides. This as two fast moving fires have now erupted in San Diego County.
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[09:44:21]
BOLDUAN: This morning, the fire situation in Los Angeles is still active and still dangerous, but rain and cooler temperatures are in the forecast for the weekend, which is welcome news, of course, for crews and everyone that have been battling fires for more than two weeks now. But how the rain falls could make all the difference between relief and further disaster, with threats of possible landslides. The fires have already burned more than 50,000 acres, displaced 100,000 people.
One organization that's been on the ground to help really since the beginning is Team Rubicon, a veteran-led nonprofit that helps victims in the aftermath of natural disasters.
[09:45:00]
And joining me right now is the CEO of Team Rubicon, Art dela Cruz.
Art, thanks for coming in.
Two weeks on now, more than two weeks on, what are your - what are your teams seeing as the greatest need now in southern California?
ART DELACRUZ, CEO, TEAM RUBICON: Yes, this has been an absolutely, you know, massive fire. And as a veteran led humanitarian organization, what we are currently seeing is that, you know, oftentimes disasters create the next disasters. Yesterday we worked very closely with public works, with an understanding that in these burn scarred areas there's still water from the firefighting, there is infrastructure such as water pipes that are broken. And now, with an impending rain, we understand that our volunteers can contribute to stabilize some of these areas to prevent mudslides as the rains come potentially this weekend.
BOLDUAN: And tell me about that because that's, you know, how are you - how are you shifting in focus to assist with this now next - hopefully it doesn't happen, a disaster and what could come. And we've seen in the past is landslides after some brutal wildfires. How are your teams assisting already stretched emergency crews?
DELACRUZ: Yes, Team Rubicon really prides ourselves on our agility. And the shift that you talked about started first with alleviating, you know, some of these unnecessary burdens on these incredible heroes that are helping to fight the fires. Now that containment is starting to happen, we've shifted our focus, and we've done this over the past week in helping occupants return safely to their neighborhoods by distributing PPE and information. And now, in this, you know, call it our third mission, we're really concentrating on ensuring, again, that we can begin to stabilize these homes. Again, give this, you know, respite, stabilize it, and make sure that this recovery can begin in earnest.
BOLDUAN: Yes, I mean, I've seen images and video of your teams doing some of the things that really needed - helping to clear the roadways so emergency crews could get through. I mean, really critical things that - that need to happen in order for them to be able to fight the fires.
Today, both state and federal leaders, they're coming together to visit the fire zones. As an organization that is outside of the government, that has been on the ground helping, what do you hope that President Trump sees and focuses on?
DELACRUZ: Yes, I think, you know, we're not - I'm not in a position to really tell, you know, President Trump probably something he doesn't know. But what I can tell you is, you know, our volunteers and our organization understands the magnitude of this fire. We're positioned to help wherever we can. And certainly we maintain the strength of these partnerships across, you know, the counties, the cities, you know, all of the citizens, as well as the federal government in ensuring, again, we can do what we can all do as Americans, which is serve our citizens.
BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Team Rubicon essential all the time, especially in times of need like this.
Art delaCruz, thank you very much.
Sara.
SIDNER: OK, Kate, just stay around because, hey, where'd it go? It's - there it is. Live pictures right now of an adorable panda. And there's a couple that are going to make their debut this morning at the National Zoo.
BOLDUAN: Panda tush.
SIDNER: Dirty panda tush, but it's OK.
BOLDUAN: Hey.
SIDNER: They're cute any way they are.
BOLDUAN: Don't you talk about my pandas like that.
SIDNER: Just - oh, all. Hi!
BOLDUAN: Also can eat your face.
SIDNER: Yes.
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[09:52:01]
BERMAN: OK, so this morning, what might be the biggest moment for Washington all week. Maybe bigger than the inauguration.
BOLDUAN: (INAUDIBLE).
BERMAN: Certainly bigger than the Commander's heading to the NFC championship game.
BOLDUAN: Ewe.
SIDNER: Wow.
BERMAN: Two pandas are making their long awaited debut at the National Zoo. Now it says here in the copy that I'm supposed to read that they are cuddly, but I - honestly, I don't know how we confirm that.
BOLDUAN: Just look at them.
SIDNER: Oh, please.
BERMAN: Bao Li and Qing Bao, they're three years old.
BOLDUAN: Look at them.
BERMAN: They've been in quarantine since arriving in the U.S. from China in mid-October.
BOLDUAN: That's required. It's not like they did something wrong.
BERMAN: With us now from the National Zoo is CNN's David Culver. We're also joined by wildlife and conservation expert Jeff Corwin.
David, maybe you can confirm that they're cuddly. You certainly have much more information about what they're doing here.
SIDNER: They're just sitting up there in a tree.
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I really wanted to cuddle with them and to give them a big hug. I spent a lot of time with these two going back to October, when I was with them in China for the send-off. They did not allow me to touch them. But I got within a foot or so, which is the closest I've ever been.
I do feel like, though, you should probably focus on her behind me. That's Qing Bao, by the way. And I think you all and Jeff will probably prefer to just take her in as she's climbing up on the tree.
I mean, Qing Bao is - and this is what's so funny. When I spent time with their caretakers in China, they described their personalities with a lot of detail and care. She's very independent. She likes her alone time. She is motivated by food, and then goes up into the tree at lunchtime, like now, and she has a nap.
Bao Li is just the opposite. I mean he's really energetic. He's got a lot of - he's got a lot of drive, also for food, but also for people.
SIDNER: He's got a lot of drive.
CULVER: So, I think one of the things that can be frustrating when you come to a space like this is like - and you've got a lot of people who are taking it in, is that they just will often sleep. But - but you get a little bit of both here.
I've gotten about 20,000 steps in, in the past hour, because we're trying to go from one enclosure to another, to the inside, to the outside, just trying to follow them. But then, if you look here, you've got people who are doing the same. And they just take it in. It's like a - I'm probably disturbing it, but it's a moment of tranquility to just, you know, allow these beloved creatures to be in your presence.
SIDNER: I mean, they're beloved, and I can confirm they're cuddly because I just found something that I thought.
BOLDUAN: You Googled it?
SIDNER: There is a real job called a panda cuddler, and you get paid $32,000 to love them, rub them, be around them, know about them, take pictures of them. You literally sit there holding and cuddling.
CULVER: There you go, Sara.
SIDNER: And I am going to quit my job to do that, because I think I'd be better suited for that.
CULVER: Yes.
SIDNER: Jeff Corwin, can - can I ask you a question about pandas and just how they are, because, yes, they're cuddly, they like to eat and they like to sleep. So, that's number one on my list, I think we can all agree. But they're also loners. Is that true?
[09:55:02]
JEFF CORWIN, WILDLIFE AND CONSERVATION EXPERT: It is.
First of all, Sara, let me say that I'm really disappointed to not see David wearing his panda suit.
BOLDUAN: I was waiting -
SIDNER: But you know what, Jeff?
CORWIN: Like (INAUDIBLE).
SIDNER: You know what, Jeff, we do have - we just happen to have a picture of that.
CORWIN: (INAUDIBLE).
CULVER: (INAUDIBLE). CORWIN: Oh, yes. So, yes, Sara, they are loners. They're - yes, they are solitary. There he is in his panda suit.
So, they are loners. They are very solitary creatures.
What's interesting, though, is a lot of people still kind of think they're closely related to raccoons. But, in fact, panda bears are true bears, and they belong to that bear family we call the ursidae.
SIDNER: The ursidae.
BOLDUAN: We're continuing to see all of the panda action.
David, you're - you talked about them being beloved - beloved. And they inspire - like, it's a craze around these pandas specifically, but also pandas in general. And that's part of some of your reporting I found so fascinating is kind of covering the - the worldwide devotion that these pandas inspire. What is it about them?
SIDNER: Oh.
CULVER: Kate, yes, it's - it's wild, Kate.
SIDNER: (INAUDIBLE).
CULVER: And this is something we got a taste in - you know, in China too, in Chengdu as well. I mean that's - Chengdu is in Sichuan province. It's the capital of that province. And it is like pandas everywhere. Every shop you go to, there's tea shops that are themed. At Starbucks, everything is all about pandas.
And there is for, you know, people in China, and then as you see even people here, there's something that's unifying about these creatures.
To Jeff's point, this would have been a great day for the panda suit because it is freezing cold out here. But I will say there was, and I stick to this, there was a smell of some sort on that suit. And I later found out that that odor was very likely linked to the feces and urine that they put so that when you're in their rewilding space and the natural habitat, you're not throwing them off and looking like a human. You're perhaps more mixed into their environment and allowing for a more smooth transition back to nature, let's say.
But, yes, this is - this is something that just gets people from all over the world coming together. And I think that's what's so incredible about this is, you know, I was talking to a woman as she was getting in line here this morning. She goes, I didn't think we'd get pandas back in Washington. She flew in from Houston, Texas, and she said, I was convinced because of U.S.-China relations that this wasn't going to happen. And she said it speaks to the fact that it doesn't matter who's in the White House, what the relations are between the two countries, panda diplomacy is alive and well.
BOLDUAN: It sure is, and on full display.
Guys, it's great to see you. Thanks so much for enjoying it with us. And a programing note for all of you out there, a new episode of "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER" is about all this, operation panda, and David Culver. It airs Sunday 8:00 p.m. Eastern, only on CNN.
BERMAN: And thank you all for joining us. This has been CNN NEWS CENTRAL with John Berman, Kate Bolduan and Sara Sidner. Three people who should probably not go out late together the night before a show.
CNN NEWSROOM is up next.
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