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Trump Fires Inspectors General From Over A Dozen Federal Agencies; Trump Suggests Plan For Gaza Is To "Clean Out The Whole Thing"; NIH Told It Can Continue Purchasing Supplies For Studies. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 27, 2025 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:31:27]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning lawmakers from both parties want answers after President Trump fired inspectors general from more than a dozen federal agencies paving the way for him to put in his own people. Now, this appears to be a blatant disregard for the law, which requires the White House to give Congress 30 days' notice and provide "substantive rationale" for terminating any inspector general -- they didn't.

CNN White House reporter Alayna Treene joins us now with the latest on this. What's the White House saying about the law, Alayna?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, right now they're kind of sidestepping questions on that. But I do just want to walk you through how this all happened.

So one Trump administration official told me that essentially on Friday evening agency inspectors general received an email from Sergio Gore -- he is the head of the White House Presidential Personnel Office -- effectively telling these different independent watchdogs that due to "changing priorities" their positions had been terminated effective immediately.

Now we know as well that this has impacted different watchdogs at a number of agencies, including at the State Department, Energy Department, Interior Department, et cetera. So this was a widespread firing from Donald Trump.

Now we did hear from President Trump directly about this over the weekend when he was speaking with reporters on Air Force One confirming this. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a very common thing to do. Some people thought that some were unfair, or some were not doing the job. It's a very standard thing to do.

REPORTER: Do you plan to bring your own people in those positions, Mr. President?

TRUMP: Well, they're not my people. I don't know anybody that would do that. But we'll put people in there that would be very good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now John, a few things to point out. One, there is no evidence to support the president's claims that these independent -- or these independent inspectors general were not doing their job well or fairly. But look, we know that during Donald Trump's first term he did a similar thing. He gutted a lot of these independent watchdogs across the administration and that led, in part, to Congress changing some of the guidelines on how these people could be removed from their position.

And we heard a lot of critics from Capitol Hill, including several Republicans, kind of ring the alarm about this, including, as you mentioned, John, that they weren't given the proper 30 day notice before terminating these people's employment.

Now we did hear from one person, Sen. Chuck Grassley. He is someone who has long been kind of viewed as a champion for these different inspectors general and watchdogs. This is what he said in a statement over the weekend. He said, "There may be good reason the IGs were fired. We need to know that if so." He went on to say, "I'd like further explanation from President Trump. Regardless, the 30-day detailed notice of removal that the law demands was not provided to Congress."

So this is something we're hearing a lot of people again on Capitol Hill say they want answers to. We'll see how the White House responds -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Alayna Treene for us at the White House. Alayna, thank you very much.

With us now, Maura Gillespie, founder and principal at Bluestack Strategies. And Christine Quinn, executive committee chair of the New York State Democratic Committee.

And I have the law, like, right here in my hands. This is -- we're talking about Title 5, Section 403 of the U.S. Code federal law. "An inspector general may be removed by the president. But if an inspector general is removed from the office or transferred to another position the president shall communicate in writing the substantive rationale" -- et cetera, et cetera -- "not later than 30 days before the removal or transfer."

That's the law and --

CHRISTINE QUINN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, WIN, EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE CHAIR, NEW YORK STATE DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEE: Pretty black and white.

BERMAN: And Chuck Grassley, the Republican chair there, is saying you didn't follow the law.

[07:35:00]

QUINN: Right. And regardless of whether you think, as was said, that these folks were doing a good job or a bad job, the law is the law. And it's prescribed that way because these individuals are supposed to be independent. They're not supposed to be pure political appointees.

And, you know, you have to think if you're not afraid of watchdogs finding something out -- if you're not afraid you wouldn't fire them. You would keep that infrastructure in place so the American people know that there is transparency and people making sure their tax dollars are being spent correctly by all these federal agencies.

BERMAN: Well, the truth is the law does provide, Maura, for a president to fire inspectors general if he or she follows the law. But what does it tell you that President Trump, in general, wants this sweeping change to all the -- almost all the inspectors general?

MAURA GILLESPIE, FOUNDER AND PRINCIPAL, BLUESTACK STRATEGIES, FORMER PRESS ADVISOR TO THEN-HOUSE SPEAKER JOHN BOEHNER (via Webex by Cisco): Right, and I think that's the biggest question here and the cause for concern is what is the reasoning? And so, hopefully, we'll find out what his reasoning was for making that decision. But again, you pointed out he violated the law.

I think that the bigger question that it causes for us all and Republicans is what is the role of Congress if he's constantly circumventing it?

And without Mike Johnson -- Speaker Mike Johnson standing up and being more forceful and positioning himself as the speaker of the whole House and not just the Republican Party leader, it's going to be important for members of Congress to do that and for the Senate to do that, and for senator -- you know, leader John Thune to do that. Because President Trump is the president.

There's a reason for we have a separation of powers, and I worry about what that says if he's continuing to violate the law but also then tell Congress what they should be -- should be doing.

BERMAN: I want to talk about prices if we can. My wife went out with one of my sons this weekend to a diner for breakfast and they had an egg surcharge. If you ordered anything with eggs they actually charged -- like, at a diner, which the only thing you can order is eggs -- but they put on extra prices there.

This is what Vice President Vance said yesterday when he was asked about what the administration is doing so far to address inflation, which was really the primary focus of their campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, (R) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have done a lot and there have been a number of executive orders that have caused already jobs to start coming back into our country, which is a core part of lowering prices. Prices are going to come down but it's going to take a little bit of time. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The point Margaret was asking was a lot of the executive orders had been about immigration, or DEI, or other things not directly focused on prices.

My question, Christine, is as things move forward -- and presidents have some impact on prices and sometimes they don't --

QUINN: Right.

BERMAN: -- but how much will this hang over the administration? When will this start to be a factor for them?

QUINN: I think if they say things like we've already done a lot to bring jobs in, which couldn't have happened in one week --

BERMAN: Right.

QUINN: -- regardless of who the president was -- if they keep making statements like that, they're going to have it hang over their head more closely and more quickly.

Now look, this was -- to their credit, the economy -- the price of eggs --

BERMAN: Right.

QUINN: -- the defining issue and they defined it well and we Democrats didn't respond well. You get held to what you said. They made promises, and if they see President Trump spending all of his time on issues that aren't pocketbook issues the public is going to get angry -- and I think get angry quickly because people are going to the supermarket. There's no eggs. The ones there are are incredibly expensive and they said they could control it.

BERMAN: And one of the risks of promoting an all powerful presidency Maura is if things don't go well you really have no one else to blame.

GILLESPIE: In theory, yes. But as we have learned, Donald Trump tends to evade any stinging criticism. I mean, for the people who support him -- the far-right MAGA supporters, none of it matters to them as far as the -- you know, the obvious that you're being a rational person and you're looking at this and thinking right -- there's no way they could have done something in a week. So to say that they increased jobs and that they've already lowered prices, that's a talking point that isn't based in any truth.

And so I think then MAGA supporters hear that and they're not complaining about the grocery prices. You were hearing about it all through the election cycle. They're not complaining about it because they got what they wanted. They got Trump back in the White House. So everything else in their minds will shape out.

But I think, again, as a rational human being -- as somebody here who is looking at it from both sides, you're using talking points that the Democrats were using largely during the campaign trying to tell us that everything was fine and that things were going better than they were.

And so I think that for voters we need to take a step back and actually look at the facts here of what's happening, not just what's being spoken to us by Vice President Vance or Donald Trump, or whether it was the Democrats, and Kamala Harris, and Joe Biden.

BERMAN: All right, Maura Gillespie, Christine Quinn. Great to see both of you. Thanks very much -- Kate.

[07:40:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Happening this morning, the new defense secretary Pete Hegseth taking charge at the Pentagon today. Already, the Pentagon says that he has been on the phone with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as one of his kind of first acts in the office. That call coming as President Trump suggests moving Palestinians out of Gaza. Much more to come. Let's see.

CNN's Natasha Bertrand is at the Pentagon on this. Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv.

Natasha, let me ask you what are you hearing about Pete Hegseth -- we'll call it his first official day at the Pentagon?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kate. So we do expect him to be arriving here around 9:00 a.m. following that extremely narrow confirmation vote last week. And he was in the building a little bit over the weekend.

He did, as you mentioned, speak to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and that actually followed the Trump administration's decision to lift a ban imposed by Biden on the shipment of 2,000-pound bombs to Israel. And so Hegseth clearly wanted to get the ball rolling on developing a relationship directly with Netanyahu -- one of the most important relationships, of course, that the Pentagon can have with an ally.

And so we do expect him to continue a lot of the work this week that was actually begun last week before he was even confirmed. And that was done under the acting defense secretary, including a lot of work on immigration, of course. Sending additional U.S. troops down to the border, conducting military airlifts and repatriation flights of migrants back to their country -- something that has proven pretty controversial with those countries, including, of course, Colombia, which we saw play out over the weekend.

And, of course, those anti-DEI efforts -- those anti-diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts throughout the military to try to essentially limit or ban altogether the kinds of programs that are focused on DEI throughout the military.

And Pete Hegseth -- he actually said in a tweet over the weekend, kind of underscoring his priorities here, that these offices within the military -- they are not going to be permitted moving forward. He wrote it by hand there and then he tweeted it out. "DOD does not equal DEI."

And one other thing that we should not here. Hegseth is expected here today. We're not sure whether we're going to actually hear him speak but we do expect, according to my colleagues over at the White House, Trump to sign several executive orders that are going to impact the military directly, including a potential ban on transgender servicemembers, a ban on -- throughout the entire military DEI programs, as well as a new executive order reinstating servicemembers who were discharged over not getting the COVID vaccine back in 2020 and 2021.

Now, we should note that ban was actually repealed in 2023 under the Biden administration and servicemembers were allowed to rejoin the military who refused to get the COVID vaccine. But this, it seems, will go a step further and actually give those servicemembers backpay.

So expect to see a flurry of activity here today impacting the Pentagon and more broadly, of course, the whole Department of Defense.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, it sounds like it, and we'll be tracking it right along with you, Natasha. Thanks for that.

And Jeremy, let's talk about what we're hearing from President Trump -- his kind of new take on the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas or specifically, what's happening in Gaza. And he was talking to reporters over the weekend, and I want to play for everyone what the president said about his suggestion now for Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we just clean out that whole thing. It's -- you know, it's -- over the centuries it's had many, many conflicts -- that site. And I don't know, it's -- something has to happen. But it's literally a demolition site right now. Almost everything's demolished.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: What is Donald Trump suggesting here, Jeremy, and how is the region reacting to it?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well Kate, in addition to saying that he wants to clean out Gaza, he also suggested that both Egypt and Jordan should take in hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who are currently living in Gaza. And what he's really talking about here is the mass displacement of Gaza's population of about two million people -- ideas that have been floated here in Israel by the far-right wing who have talked about the voluntary immigration -- voluntary displacement of Palestinians out of Gaza to neighboring countries.

And it's important to recognize what that means for Palestinians when they hear terms like "displacement." When they hear terms like "voluntary immigration." That takes them back to a history of mass displacement of Palestinians over decades in Israel and in the Palestinian territories over the course of the last 70-80 years. And you contrast that, of course, with the images that we are seeing in Gaza today as tens of thousands of people began returning to Northern Gaza after months of being displaced from that area. They know that what they are returning to in Northern Gaza is enormous, enormous amounts of destruction. Many of their homes have likely been destroyed.

[07:44:10]

We know that across the Gaza Strip about 90 percent of residential units have been damaged or destroyed. And in North Gaza that is particularly acute.

But when asked about Trump's comments, multiple Gazans who were preparing to make this journey back to the north made very clear that despite the war, despite the misery that they have experienced they want to remain on their land. And their connection to their land is stronger than any promises of living somewhere else in more guaranteed safety.

And in addition, it's important to note that both the Egyptians and the Jordanians are effectively rejecting this notion is displacing Palestinians. Ayman Safadi, the foreign minister of Jordan, for example, saying that "Our refusal of displacement is a steadfast position that will not stand." He said, "Jordan is for Jordanians and Palestine is for Palestinians."

So this is an idea that has been floated by right-wing members in Israel and now is being floated by President Trump but really has very little traction here in the region from the mainstream players who are in charge -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Jeremy, thank you for that. And Natasha, thanks so much from the Pentagon as well -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Overnight, a group of thieves stole four ancient artifacts, including a 2,500-year-old gold helmet. That's an old gold helmet. And that's after using explosives to break into a museum.

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[07:51:15]

BOLDUAN: This morning world leaders are gathering for Holocaust Remembrance Day -- gathering at Auschwitz, the largest Nazi concentration and death camp. Today marks 80 years since allied forces liberated the camps. King Charles, German Chancellor Scholz, and French President Macron are among the leaders who are gathering at Auschwitz, joining survivors at the death camp's gates.

A train car standing there now is a reminder of the 420,000 Hungarian Jews who were sent there to their deaths. Six million Jews were killed and died in the Holocaust.

Police in the Netherlands are looking for thieves who stole ancient artifacts from an art and history museum in the Netherlands -- a heist that included blowing off a museum door. The Dutch police say the explosion was part of an elaborate scheme to break in the museum and steal some of its treasures, very clearly, including a 2,500-year-old gold helmet.

Security footage from the museum shows the suspects blasting through a door and then leaving with three gold bracelets from 50 B.C. and that 5th Century B.C. helmet.

Dutch police have received some 50-plus tips and are tracking -- try to track the suspects who -- after they found an abandoned and burned- out getaway car nearby.

And then there's this. I know you were wondering but we now have a conclusion and resolution to the story that has captivated the world. The last four monkeys that escaped from a South Carolina research facility over two months ago have been safely recaptured. Forty-three monkeys escaped back in November after a caretaker failed to secure their enclosure door. According to the research center's CEO, the animals are healthy. The facility, one of the largest of its kind, conducts biomedical research on monkeys.

Yes?

BERMAN: I don't -- I was kind of pulling for them. I was --

BOLDUAN: Like, you --

BERMAN: I was kind of -- I was -- I don't want to take sides here but --

BOLDUAN: We can't.

BERMAN: -- I was holding out hope.

BOLDUAN: We can't take sides.

BERMAN: I was holding out hope.

BOLDUAN: But man -- I mean that was two long months of freedom.

BERMAN: They had a great run.

BOLDUAN: Yeah.

BERMAN: They had a great run.

BOLDUAN: Now -- um-hum.

BERMAN: All right, Kate.

BOLDUAN: OK.

BERMAN: All right, breaking news. The National Institutes of Health has just been told it can continue working with vendors after purchasing for research was put on hold last week. I want to get to CNN's Meg Tirrell for this. There were concerns up until, like, literally a few minutes ago Meg of a supply shortage here, correct?

MEG TIRRELL CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, John. So this all stems from the communications pause that was put in place by the Department of Health and Human Services broadly last week. We learned on Friday that this had been interpreted to include purchasing orders for external research supplies. So essentially, having to communicate with the outside world in order to purchase supplies for internal research going on at the NIH.

And this included things like test tubes that they need for maybe clinical trials or treating patients in the clinical center there at the NIH hospital. Food for animals -- lab animals. Supplies for studies. Things like that.

And so these things were running out, and we did talk with a few sources who warned that they were going to run out this week. Then their research would have been interrupted and that could have really ruined entire studies.

And so we have learned just this morning that there has been a communication really trying to clarify that and to say there could be a continuation of communication with existing vendors. But the exception John is if those vendors do any external communications on behalf of the Department of Health and Human Services. So still really trying to keep in place that pause on communications but trying to clarify that this internal work and the purchasing can keep going at the NIH.

And we know that pause in communications has been said to be in place until February first. And so right now people are really just trying to figure out what does this mean beyond this week, John.

[07:55:00]

BERMAN: So still uncertainty though about funding external research? What's going on there?

TIRRELL: Yeah. This has been one of the big sort of shockwaves that's been sent out as a result of this. That in addition to the pause on communications that also ended up abruptly canceling these things called study sections, which are essentially gatherings of outside scientists who work with the NIH to review applications for grant funding.

And the NIH is a $48 billion organization. It's the largest public funder of biomedical research in the world. And so these study sections are important parts of the process to award funds to scientists doing all kinds of work across the entire country. And right now we don't know -- you know, does this stop February first or does this go on longer? And that's what's really worrying the entire academic infrastructure right now, John.

BERMAN: It's just an unsettling period of uncertainty for a lot of people involved in some very important research.

All right, Meg Tirrell. Thank you for this reporting. Keep us posted -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Looking overseas right now, Russian President Vladimir Putin praising President Donald Trump in an interview that aired on Russian state television. Putin called Donald Trump in this interview a "smart and pragmatic person" but also claiming that, as he called it, the crisis in Ukraine -- the war -- the invasion of Ukraine he said might not have happened. Might have been prevented if Donald Trump was in power three years ago. And that is something that Donald Trump himself has boasted over and over again.

This comes just as the U.S. State Department just issued a sweeping and sudden order to freeze nearly all foreign assistance and aid worldwide. The State Department putting out a statement saying in part, "President Trump stated clearly that the United States is no longer going to blindly dole out money with no return for the American people."

So what does this mean for Ukraine?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining me right now is a former president of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko. President, thank you for coming in.

Ukraine's President Zelenskyy said this weekend that despite that new U.S. directive that the United States has not stopped military aid to Ukraine. I'm wondering what you are hearing about that. And how has the dynamic of the war changed, if at all, with Donald Trump now in office?

PETRO POROSHENKO, FORMER PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (via Skype): First of all, thank you very much indeed for the invitation.

The situation on the front line and on the ground is really, really difficult. I -- every single week on the front line, together with our troops, delivering there, the maximum we can for supporting Ukraine and we definitely connected the very strong hopes with the President Trump.

The -- from my point of view, we want to declare you that just today it was an opinion poll, and more than 50 percent of Ukrainians are ready for certain compromise to finish the war. And you cannot find out any other people in the world who wants peace more than we Ukrainians.

And we really have a hope that first of all, the United States do not suspend -- do not stop military aid because this is the question for Ukrainian survival. And we are fighting here not only for our land but also for the freedom and democracy in the world. And at the same time, our soldiers giving their lives for the freedom and democracy, including protecting United States.

Fifty percent for compromise, but we have a five non-compromise -- non-compromise on the Ukrainians sovereignty -- national identity. We never be again the colony of Russia. Non-compromise number two, this is the territorial identity. We never

territorial -- we never accept the Russian occupation of the territory.

Non-comprise number three on sanctions. Putin should but the ability to finance the war. The non-compromise on the financial and military assistance. This is extremely important for us.

A non-compromise for the NATO and European Union membership. This is the -- extremely important things to -- for us to work. That is the case.

And I know how to finish the war within 24 hours.

(Audio difficulty)

BOLDUAN: Let's -- giving one second to see if we can get President Poroshenko back up, but it looks like our connection has been lost.

President Poroshenko, thank you very much for your time. We'll work on getting that reconnected to have him on again.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.