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RFK Jr. Confirmation Hearings Today; Rep. Kim Schrier (D-WA) is Interviewed about RFK Jr.; Revoked Security for Milley; Matthew Platkin is Interviewed about Suing over Funding Freeze. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 29, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Trust me, flames were exploding outside and rescuers then went inside to look for anyone who could have been left behind. And then this happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, hi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, perfect, is there anyone else with you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I've been trying to find a way out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's get you out of here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, let's get you out, OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where do I go? Well, don't lose me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I promise I won't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we won't lose you. Don't worry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Don't lose me. And they say, let's get you out of here. The woman told deputies that she did not hear them because her hearing aids - her hearing aids were charging at the time. Oh, my goodness. Such a sweet one.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We are standing by to see Robert Kennedy Jr. arrive on Capitol Hill for confirmation hearings. One of President Trump's most controversial cabinet picks must convince senators he is qualified to lead the health agency.

Breaking overnight, the Trump administration sends 2 million federal workers an email with an option to resign. How much of an option is it really, though? And is it even legal?

Then a brutal report card for America's children falling further behind in reading. So, what is going so badly wrong?

Sara is out. I'm John Berman, with Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

BOLDUAN: Less than an hour now, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will be sitting before the Senate for the first of two confirmation hearings. He is going to make his case to be confirmed as the next secretary of Health and Human Services. He is also going to face some very serious questions about his resume and what he really believes. He is a known vaccine denialist and, if confirmed, would be in charge of America's public health agencies, including the very agencies that approve vaccines. Kennedy said as recently as 2023 that there is no vaccine that is safe and effective. Just one of the reasons his own family is now speaking out, speaking up to say he should not get the job.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. would head multiple agencies critical to the health of all Americans. If confirmed, the very organizations that he has spoken out against, like the CDC, the FDA, NIH. And on the eve of the confirmation hearing, his cousin, Caroline Kennedy, posted a video calling RFK a predator and also urged senators to vote against him.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty joins us right now with much more ahead.

So, it's just under an hour now. RFK Jr. is going to be arriving on The Hill shortly, if he's not there already. What are you hearing about this?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, this is certainly going to be a very contentious hearing today. He is, as you said, one of the most controversial nominees. And senators up here on Capitol Hill have already been very vocal that they have big concerns about his stance on vaccines, spreading of misinformation, agriculture, food policy. And notably, Senate Republicans are concerned and really want to drill down today about his past stance on abortion.

Now, over the past month, Kennedy himself, he has been making the rounds up here on Capitol Hill, meeting with senators privately behind closed doors, trying to make the case directly to them for his potential confirmation to be the HHS secretary. And we have heard, notably though, this week up here on Capitol Hill many Senate Republicans, a handful of Senate Republicans, say that they are uncertain on how they will vote at this moment and want to hear more from him. So, very clear those meetings have done little to quell the concern in their minds.

Now, adding to this, of course, is the fact that Senate Republicans have a razor thin majority on - up here on Capitol Hill. The fact that he can only lose three senate Republicans, that's assuming that all Senate Democrats vote against him to be pushed forward. So, he has to make the case today very clearly to the senators and really answer all their concerns.

Now, adding to this mix, we heard from his cousin, Caroline Kennedy, really blast his nomination and really speak out in a personal way about what she believes is his disqualification to be the HHS secretary, his predatory and troubling behavior in the past.

Here's more of what she had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLINE KENNEDY, COUSIN OF ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.: I've known Bobby my whole life. We grew up together. It's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets, because Bobby himself is a predator.

Bobby preys on the desperation of parents of sick children, vaccinating his own kids while building a following hypocritically discouraging other parents from vaccinating theirs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: So, Kennedy there really urging senators on the committee to vote against him. And that, notably, the first time that she spoke out. Certainly all eyes on this confirmation hearing in just an hour.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Sunlen, thank you very much for that.

John.

All right, our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is with us now.

Obviously, Sanjay, so much at stake here with so many questions for Robert Kennedy, who has spoken out in various ways against vaccines before or been highly critical of them.

[09:05:10]

What role has vaccine misinformation over the years played on vaccination rates?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: A pretty, pretty significant role, John. I mean, I think the - even before the pandemic, you may remember, John, there were measles outbreaks that were happening sporadically. There was one in Brooklyn and Minnesota and southern California. So, it was happening.

But if you go back to 2021 and you say, look, how many parents are willing to get their kids vaccinated then versus now. See what's happened over the last four to five years. What you find is that it was around 90 percent parents say that they're willing to keep their kids up to date on recommended vaccines. And now it's closer to 82 percent.

To give you a little bit of context around that, for measles, for example, which is a very, very contagious virus, you need to have around 95 percent of the population at least vaccinated to get what is called herd immunity. That means you have enough immunity in the community to protect everyone. We're nowhere near that, and, obviously, there is significant erosion of trust in vaccines, I think in large part because of that misinformation. I'll just tell you really quick, John, one of the questions that

always comes up, do vaccines cause autism? This is a question that's going to come up today. RFK Jr. has said they do cause autism. He has said that recently on the record. Even though at the same time he says his kids have been vaccinated and that he believes vaccines have a crucial role in public health. And yet at the same time he says vaccines cause autism. So, it's going to be confusing. And I think a lot of these questions and previous statements will be held to account.

But since this whole specter of vaccines causing autism came up back in the late '90s, it has been studied a great deal. Countries all over the world, hundreds of thousands of kids who were basically tracked to see who was vaccinated, who was not, who was most likely to develop autism.

And let me just show you quickly. This was a study out of Denmark. This was from 1999 to 2010, 657,000 children who were evaluated, some who got vaccines, some who didn't, they followed them. Overall, they found that less than 1 percent of the children, first of all, had autism. But then there was really no difference in the vaccinated or unvaccinated group. And it didn't matter what age you were testing them, whether or not they had a family history, there just is no correlation between vaccines and autism.

It was a question that has been asked and it's been answered many, many times, and yet it still comes up and is probably the primary driver of this - this distrust that I was just alluding to, John.

BERMAN: So, Sanjay, Robert Kennedy talks a lot about chronic diseases in this country and has spoken out against chronic diseases and received credit for it, which is interesting because I think we're all against chronic diseases. I mean, who's not? But generally speaking, you know, where does the country stand, and excuse me as I'm coughing, in terms of our health.

GUPTA: Yes, look, I mean, I think everyone can sort of be on board with this. I think this is one of the reasons I became a medical journalist was to educate people about what they can do for their own health. And it's challenging.

In the United States - we'll put up some numbers for you - we spend, you know, well over $4 trillion, close to $5 trillion on health care. And the numbers have been going up. It's a huge amount. Its 20 percent of our overall spending in the United States as a country. It's been going up. What is interesting is that it's twice as much as the next most expensive country. And we still have some of the most significant amounts of chronic disease in the world. The United States, 30 percent of people have two or more chronic diseases. That's very high compared to many other similar countries around the world. So, we spend a lot and we don't get much in return for it. And I think that's where he's going to find a lot of support. As you said, John, we all can get behind that.

BERMAN: Yes, it is something that is obviously worthy of discussion.

Sanjay Gupta, always great to see you. Thank you very much.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And joining me right now is a member of Congress who's also a physician and has spoken out against RFK's nomination, Congresswoman Kim Schrier of Washington.

Congresswoman, thank you so much for coming in.

You're a pediatrician, and it is your work caring for children and families. And you say that that - that is part of the reason why you are so concerned about RFK Jr. Why?

REP. KIM SCHRIER (D-WA): That's right. You know, no matter what he says now, the fact of the matter is, he has now spent years sowing doubt, just raising the question that has already been settled about autism and vaccines, continues to propagate anxiety in parents. And when that happens, even though pediatricians talk with those parents all the time to reassure them, to set the record straight, vaccination rates drop. And that endangers not only their children, it endangers all of us.

[09:10:03]

BOLDUAN: To that point, and that's - Republican senators, they are still - some are still skeptical of him. They want - of what he has said, and they want their - they are wanting public commitments from him on things like vaccines. But to that point, Doctor Paul Offit is the head of the Vaccine Education Center, and he was on with me yesterday. And he said, no matter what RFK says today, that he cannot be trusted.

Let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER FOR CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: He's told you who he is. For the last 20 years he has said again and again he considers no vaccine to be of benefit. He has said again and again that he thinks the polio vaccine killed, in his words, many, many, many more children than it saved. He's told you that he doesn't think HIV is the cause of AIDS. He's told you he thinks that the Hepatitis B vaccine doesn't work. He - he - he is what he says he's been for the last 20 years. Why are they expecting that when he sits in front of them he's going to be something different no matter what he says.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Then, Congresswoman, if RFK Jr. is confirmed, what are you going to be telling - what are you going to be telling your patients?

SCHRIER: Well, I will tell patients and the public what I've been saying for years, which is that, it is normal with any medical procedure to have questions, to have doubts and worries, but that these conspiracy theories that he adheres to, but also has been spreading for decades now do damage, they are wrong, and that there is already proven science. This is settled science. These vaccines have been tested. They're incredibly effective. And you know, if I see senators supporting him because, for example, they like the idea of preventing chronic disease, this is not an either or question. I mean there's a whole world of qualified people out there that also want to take on the issue of chronic disease and healthy food and water in our country that aren't vaccine deniers, and that won't be a trade-off and cause explosions in communicable diseases.

BOLDUAN: Congresswoman, other cabinet picks of this president has been called controversial and have faced tough questions and have faced Democrats speaking out against and even members of their own family speaking out against. And we have heard that fear and concern about these past statements of other cabinet picks have been overblown. Do you think the fear and concern around RFK taking on America's - taking over America's public health agencies, do you think it could be overblown, or do you think RFK may be unique in this scenario that it is not?

SCHRIER: Oh, this particular decision is not just concerning or controversial. This is a reckless and dangerous confirmation. If he becomes head of Health and Human Services, he clearly doesn't look at science, doesn't care about science, has his own wild theories, and that is not what we can tolerate as a head of all of the most remarkable health agencies in our country. This is dangerous. In fact, not just to the country. It's dangerous to the world. And the spread of disinformation is far faster than the spread of what is, frankly, a not exciting or catchy fact, which is that vaccines have been so effective that we do not see measles, polio to any great extent in our country or around the world.

BOLDUAN: Congresswoman, and Doctor, Kim Schrier, thank you so much for coming in. We'll watch this. This is the first of two confirmation hearings which offers a unique opportunity. Robert F. Kennedy facing questions today, and then follow-up questions tomorrow.

Thank you for coming in.

Coming up for us, President Trump has stripped the security detail for retired General Mark Milley, placed him under investigation. His first major move of retribution against what he perceives as his enemies.

Chaos and confusion as a federal judge hits pause on the Trump administration's sweeping freeze on federal funding. But what could it mean for you? There are big questions on that today.

And dozens are feared now dead after a crowd crush at the world's largest religious festival.

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[09:19:26]

BOLDUAN: Breaking overnight, the Pentagon has revoked the security detail and security clearance for General Mark Milley. Now, Milley is the retired chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the nation's highest military officer. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has also directed his department's inspector general to launch an investigation into General Milley, who has been critical of President Trump in the past.

CNN's Oren Liebermann at the Pentagon tracking this one down for us.

What are you hearing about this, Oren?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kate, General Mark Milley has been both a frequent target of President Donald Trump and a frequent critic of Trump.

[09:20:00]

And Trump had threatened retribution. That began with the simple and the vindictive. Within hours of taking office, administration officials ordered that Milley's portrait be taken down from outside the office of the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, not far from where I'm sitting right now. But this has clearly gone to a different level here. On new Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth's second full day in office, he ordered that Milley's security clearance be revoked and that his security detail be removed. Milley has had a security detail since the U.S. assassination of Iranian General Qasem Soleimani back at 2020. So, he's had that because of the Iranian threat against him. And Hegseth ordered that that be removed.

Milley has often criticized Trump, and the two have had a back and forth relationship that has deteriorated rapidly in the final months of the first Trump administration. Milley said in Bob Woodward's book "War," and I'll read this quote, "no one has ever been as dangerous to this country as Donald Trump. Now I realize he's a total fascist. He is the most dangerous person to this country." So, you see where Trump's animosity towards Milley comes from.

Hegseth has also ordered that there be an inspector general investigation of the conduct of Milley. There's no specific accusation or one thing being investigated here, at least not a rationale given from the statements from both Hegseth and the Department of Defense chief of staff.

But Trump and others have complained first about Milley's phone calls with his Chinese counterpart in the closing months of the first Trump administration. They have also complained about the Afghanistan withdrawal. It's worth noting that it was Milley who opposed the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Afghanistan, but that continued because of the orders from the civilian commander in chief, first Trump, then Biden.

Also worth pointing out here that President Joe Biden, in his final hours in office, pardoned Milley, and that protects him from criminal prosecution and prosecution under military law. It does not protect him from an investigation from the inspector general, which could demote him in rank after 42 years of service and after his retirement.

BOLDUAN: Oren, thank you so much. The context that you just offered also very important, especially around the Afghanistan withdrawal. Coming up for us, attorneys general from several states now suing to stop the Whtie House from freezing trillions of dollars in federal loans and grants.

We'll be right back.

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[09:26:54]

BERMAN: This morning, a new message for President Trump over his federal funding freeze. Quote, "see you in court." A coalition of states is suing to stop the Whtie House from pausing these federal grants. This is separate from the suit that actually won a pause in the freeze for the time being. On that, Whtie House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said moments ago they are prepared to fight.

With us now is one attorney general part of this lawsuit from the states, Matthew Platkin from New Jersey. Thank you so much for being with us. All our favorite lawyers are from New Jersey. Elie Honig knows that, sir.

What is the - what's the legal basis of your argument of this suit?

MATTHEW PLATKIN (D), NEW JERSEY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, thanks for having me.

And look, what the president and his administration did a little over a day ago was extraordinary and unprecedented in freezing potentially trillions of dollars of funding simply because he woke up with a political vendetta. And we have to remember what this does. It freezes funding for senior - potentially for seniors' health care, for kids education, for law enforcement. I got a notice yesterday that they were freezing all funding for drug cartel trafficking enforcement. I mean, this is extraordinary. It's unprecedented. It's illegal. And I'm confident that the courts will stop it.

BERMAN: What makes it illegal?

PLATKIN: The president does not have authority to unilaterally overrule the Constitution and duly enacted appropriations issued by Congress and signed by a president. If he doesn't like what Congress is appropriating through the budget process, he can change that, but he cannot wake up one day and withhold trillions of dollars of spending for things, again, like kids' education, seniors health care and assisted living. Law enforcement. He defunded the police.

And so we're confident that, as the court did in Washington yesterday, in our case, we will be successful in preventing this illegal order from taking effect.

BERMAN: So, there's the Impoundment Control Act of 1974, which deals with these issues. Ultimately, it may be what keeps the president legally from doing this on a permanent basis, but there are avenues within this law for a temporary pause in spending. Why can't the president put a temporary pause in spending? Or actually let me rephrase that, how could he do that legally?

PLATKIN: Well, my job is not to advise him about how to do things legally, but they didn't even bother to cite to a single body of law in support of what they did two nights ago.

And then they - I think they knew they overreached because they spent basically the last 24 hours trying, unsuccessfully, to clarify what it is they were doing. And so, they don't have a legal ground to stand on here, just like they didn't when they tried to rewrite the Constitution last week to eliminate birthright citizenship from the 14th Amendment. Presidents are powerful in this country, but they're not kings, and they cannot overrule the Constitution and the laws of this nation simply because they don't like them.

BERMAN: The language in this memo, it could be legally problematic.

[09:30:01]

Judges will decide that. But you said it was deliberately vague. Why do you think it was deliberately vague?