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Numbers for RFK Nomination; Confirmation Hearing for RFK Jr. Today. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired January 29, 2025 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Be legally problematic. Judges will decide that. But you said it was deliberately vague. Why do you think it was deliberately vague?

MATTHEW PLATKIN (D), NEW JERSEY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, because I think they want to scare as many people as possible. And if that was their goal, mission accomplished. Because I can tell you, in the state of New Jersey, 9.5 million people were freaked out yesterday. They were scared if their kids were going to have critical early childhood programs. They were scared if their parents were going to see - receive the medication they were entitled to.

Our Medicaid system was frozen, as were Medicaid systems across the country all day yesterday. That was no accident. Our housing funding, people not sure if they're going to have a roof over their head or heating assistance in a bitterly cold winter, frozen yesterday. Law enforcement services, like I said, including for prosecuting drug trafficking cartels, frozen yesterday.

These are the types of extreme measures - this is not nibbling around the edges of a president's authority. We have never seen a president take this kind of extreme approach to punish states and policies and political actors that he does not agree with.

BERMAN: The Whtie House press secretary keeps saying that this is not directed at aid to individual - individuals. It would not affect aid, direct aid, to individuals. What do you say to that?

PLATKIN: At what hour is it because their guidance has changed seemingly by the minute. First it affected Medicaid. Then Medicaid got frozen. Then the backlash came, and then they said, oh, it doesn't affect Medicaid.

Look, we have governmental process for a reason because we want people to know when Congress acts what they will be receiving. People have a right to know if their kids are going to have school, if their health care is going to be paid for, if they're going to have cops on their street. And all of that was called into question yesterday.

We do not govern by tweet or by press conference for a reason. And so, governing in this chaotic way creates mass confusion and harms our residents.

BERMAN: All right, Attorney general of New Jersey, Matthew Platkin, we appreciate your time. Thanks so much for being with us.

All right, those are live pictures from Capitol Hill. Any minute now, Robert Kennedy Jr. expected to arrive for his confirmation hearing. This is on the heels of just a scathing new diatribe from his cousin, calling him a predator and a liar.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:36:59]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we're showing you live pictures on Capitol Hill. This is where Robert F. Kennedy Jr. will be entering, sitting and facing tough questions very soon. This is a Senate Finance Committee confirmation hearing, the first of two that he will face. He is Donald Trump's pick to be the next HHS secretary. And we have talked about how controversial of a pick he is.

So much so that yesterday his cousin, Caroline Kennedy, actually sent a letter to senators calling RFK Jr. a, quote, "predator" preying on the fears of families, and saying that she felt compelled to speak out against his nomination and confirmation.

CNN's Harry Enten is here to take a look at the numbers of we - about his nomination, about his chances. What are you hearing and seeing?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes, what am I seeing? You know, we've looked at the betting markets a lot with this, these different nominations, right?

BOLDUAN: Uh-huh.

ENTEN: And this is the chance that RFK Jr. gets confirmed as HHS secretary. You see, at this particular point, it's 74 percent.

BOLDUAN: It's still high.

ENTEN: It's still high, but, you know, there's a 25 percent or 26 percent chance that he doesn't get confirmed. This is not a gimme, this is not a shoe-in. You know, this is not like Kristi Noem, right, when she got confirmed. These are not the same numbers. And I'll note more than that, right, this is down. This is down from a week ago when it was 82 percent, when it was more than a four in five chance. Now we're down to a roughly three in four chance. So, yes, RFK Jr. is the favorite to become the next HHS secretary.

But it's not a foregone conclusion. A lot of it will depend on what happens during these confirmation hearings here today.

BOLDUAN: And you do wonder if this also shows people starting to pay more attention, though, right?

ENTEN: I think so. I think people are starting to pay a little bit more attention. That honeymoon period that Trump had after, of course, he was sworn in to the Whtie House as kind of wearing a little bit down and so maybe his picks get a little bit lower of a chance to, in fact, get confirmed. BOLDUAN: You think that this HHS confirmation is a little more

unpredictable than others. Why?

ENTEN: Why is it? Well, you know, I went back through history, and I was interested, different parties, the HHS secretary and the president, since Health and Human Services became a department, there were zero. There have been zero pre-RFK Jr. If RFK Jr. is, in fact, confirmed, he'd be the first to be a different party than the president who, in fact, nominated him. And why is that so interesting? Because the HHS secretary has some say over, you know, abortion in this country, abortion policy in this country. And we know that the majority of Trump voters are against abortion. So, that's going to be one of the interesting things to sort of focus in on, right? Does RFK Jr., in fact, get all the Republicans? If he does, of course he gets confirmed. But maybe his past views on abortion, how he answers those questions on how the Health and Human Services Department will deal with abortion will, in fact, perhaps persuade some Republicans not to vote for him.

And the last thing I'll sort of point out here, Kate, this is perhaps the reason why I don't necessarily think there are going to be that many Republicans who will go against him. Look at RFK's net favorability rating among Republicans. Look at this now, plus 60 points. That is up from when he was running for the Democratic nomination two years ago, when it was plus 17. Democrats hate RFK Jr. I'd be surprised if he gets any Democrats. But, hey, we'll see what happens.

[09:40:00]

BOLDUAN: Yes, first of two confirmation hearings about to get underway. We are watching it all very closely.

Harry, thank you so much for that.

ENTEN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, a major setback for the country's students with new national exam scores reveals what they reveal about the state of the U.S. education system.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: This morning, dozens of people were crushed to death at the world's largest religious gathering in India. This is tough to see. An official says at least 35 people were killed in the stampede. It happened as tens of millions of people went to bathe in a river during this Hindu festival.

[09:45:02]

About 400 million people were expected to attend this over six weeks.

Results from the nation's report card are in, and U.S. children have not caught up in their reading and math skills since the pandemic. The exam testing fourth and eighth grade students found the average math score for eighth graders has not changed since 2022. The real problem is in reading. Reading scores fell two points for both grades. That's a bad sign. Also, bad signs in growing inequality. The highest performing students have started to regain some lost ground, while lower performing students are falling even further behind.

So, here's an important question, what will 2025 taste like? One company claims to know the answer. McCormick, which is the leading maker of spices, has predicted the flavor of the year since 2000. No idea how often they get it right. But this year they're saying it will be aji amarillo. It is a yellow chili pepper native to South America. It is described as having vibrant fruit notes reminiscent of passion fruit or mango, with a moderate dash of heat, like a cayenne pepper. So, sweet and spicy, Kate. Sweet and spicy.

BOLDUAN: That is exactly how I describe you.

BERMAN: That's exactly right. That - see, that's why I said that. That was perfect (ph).

BOLDUAN: Yes, I know. You were - yes, exactly. That was a lot of flavor notes for a spice.

BERMAN: It was a lot. I thought the flavor of the year was going to be chicken, which is what I (INAUDIBLE).

BOLDUAN: Wow. I don't know why I thought - I thought that was so funny.

BERMAN: 2025 will taste like chicken.

BOLDUAN: Delicious.

Thanks all for joining us. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL. Stay with us as CNN's special coverage of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s confirmation hearing picks up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:56]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington. And you're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

So, let's dive right into it with some breaking news. In moments, the first confirmation hearing on Robert F. Kennedy Jr. for Health and Human Services secretary. It's all but certain that he'll be confronted for a litany of false claims that he has made over the years, including that he - what he claims that is false, that vaccines cause autism, claiming Covid-19 was, quote, "ethnically targeted" to disproportionately attack Caucasian and black people, and saying that HIV does not cause AIDS. In just one day before today's hearing, Caroline Kennedy slamming her

cousin, reading aloud a letter that she sent to senators urging them to reject his nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLINE KENNEDY, ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR.'S COUSIN: His views on vaccines are dangerous and willfully misinformed. These facts alone should be disqualifying. But he has personal qualities related to this job, which for me pose even greater concern. It's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets, because Bobby himself is a predator.

Bobby is addicted to attention and power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Some strong words there from Caroline Kennedy. Another cousin, Patrick Kennedy, is endorsing RFK Jr., saying he is, quote, "the leader we need on addiction."

With us now is Dr. Sanjay Gupta, Phil Mattingly, Lauren Fox and Alayna Treene.

All right, so, Sanjay, if you would just set the stage for us to start things off and just help us understand the scope of this position that he's nominated for.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a huge job. I mean he's essentially CEO of the - the largest health, medical and scientific enterprise in the world, really. So, you know, it's got close to a $2 trillion budget, HHS. They have 80,000 employees. You know, Medicare provides health care insurance for everyone over a certain age, over the age of 65. They get a billion claims a year. That all goes through one of the agencies under HHS. All the scientific funding, the CDC. You know, there are several agencies that are - that come under HHS, 13 of them, but big ones, you know, CDC, FDA, for example, Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services. So, it's - it's a gigantic job.

It's very much a CEO job. You got a lot of people who are heading these agencies. Many of whom we're going to hear from in the next couple of weeks, a few weeks. But it's a huge job. One that has been around for a long time. It's changed sort of over the years in terms of what exactly it does, but at this point it is hard to argue with the fact that it's probably the biggest health job in the world.

BROWN: So just to follow up with you, because we've all -- we all, by now, know about his - his anti-vaccine stance and the conspiracy theories that he has espoused over the years. A reminder, as you know and you can reiterate, the science is ironclad about the safety and efficacy of vaccines. They have saved millions of lives.

But what would his role be when it comes to vaccines as HHS secretary?

GUPTA: Well, I mean, he's running the whole department. Obviously, when you think about things like vaccines and the vaccine schedule, which is something that, you know, pediatricians will recommend that kids get, there's agencies that are handling that. But he has made it very clear, at least somewhat clear, I should say, his stance on vaccines. And the reason that I hesitate is because he will likely be conciliatory today. He'll likely say, hey, I got my own kids vaccinated. Hey, I think there's a role for vaccines. But at the same time, he has said there are no vaccines that are safe and effective. So, you know, I think he's going to have to reconcile these remarks.

What is his - his role going to be with vaccines specifically? We don't know. But he has a job that oversees the people who make those schedules for vaccines. And I think this is probably going to be the biggest issue. You named some of the other ones. He has said HIV doesn't cause AIDS. He has questioned germ theory itself, something that's been around since the 19th century. There's all these various things that he has said.

But I think with regard to vaccines, he has said nearly completely opposite things at different times.

[09:55:00]

I do think he - again, I think he's going to be conciliatory today. He's going to say, I'm not anti-vaccine. I think they have a role. I think they should be tested. They are tested, by the way. We can talk about that. But he's going to have a significant amount of influence, not just in terms of vaccine policy, but I think our overall attitudes towards vaccines in this country.

BROWN: And to be clear, he might say he's not anti-vaccine, but our job, of course, will be to look back at what he has said previously.

GUPTA: Yes.

BROWN: I mean even the polio vaccine, he had claimed at one point that it had killed more people than it saved, which, of course, is not true.

And so I think our job will be to look at that history, hear what he has to say today and tomorrow, and then also it's a question of whether the senators, what they think, whether they believe it.

GUPTA: Yes.

BROWN: And you now have family members of RFK Jr. coming to speak out. You have, you know, at least one, Patrick Kennedy, saying he supports his cousin. And then you have this Caroline Kennedy video and letter that's pretty damning, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Yes, look, it is a cutting almost destruction of his personal character. And also policy concerns and complaints that we've all talked about.

But it was interesting when this popped last night, and credit to "The Washington Post" who broke it first. I was texting some Republican aides on Capitol Hill saying, you know, what's your read on this? Do you feel like this is going to move the needle at all? And the response was from one of them, any other year, any other administration, this would kill a nomination. In this year, in this administration, nothing matters. And the point there is not that nothing actually matters, but it's who the nominee is and the fact that he's in this position in a Republican administration.

This is a former Democrat with the last name of Kennedy who used to be a supporter of abortion, big on climate change, big on the role of government and the importance of government. Very, very critical of the agriculture industry. This is antithetical to every kind of ideological belief of the Republican Party that was once known.

And yet, not only is he here, but I was talking to one outside Trump world advisor who said, anyone who votes no on the Republican side, we will rain holy hell down upon them. And the point there being that it's not just Republicans who may have concerns, who haven't come out publicly right now, are not just facing his policy views and where he stands, they're facing the fact that the outside pressure they're facing from the kind of Trump coalition is very, very significant.

BROWN: Yes, we can see RFK Jr. We did see him walking in for his hearing this morning. It's supposed to start around 10:00 a.m. Eastern.

And you make a really good point. I've also heard from sources that there will be a MAGA pressure campaign on any senator who does not back him, who does not vote in favor of him. We've seen it previously. We saw it with Joni Ernst when it came to Pete Hegseth.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

BROWN: We - if any senator doesn't support him, or indicates that on the right, you're going to see that. And you're hearing the same.

Before I go to The Hill, I just want to follow up with you because, you know, I know we were focused more narrowly on the vaccines, and that is super important because it's such a big part of what the job would be as HHS secretary. But I also think it's important to talk about the nuance here, Sanjay, and the other positions that RFK Jr. has taken that are appealing, frankly, to a lot of Americans, to a lot of the senators in that room that I've spoken to. Senator Gillibrand, for one, was on my show saying she's - she likes what she has heard from him on processed food, for example, on clean air, clean water, even questioning, you know, fluoride and water and those kinds of things. And I think that's also what makes this really unique.

GUPTA: I think with regard to chronic disease, something that we have talked about in the medical establishment, it's part of the reason I got into medical journalism was to talk about chronic diseases. I think with regard to that, he probably has the best shot of anyone I've heard at actually getting something done because everyone has recognized this is a problem, but it's been very, very challenging to tackle this problem.

We spend close to $5 trillion on health care every year, 20 percent of our budget, and we have some terrible outcomes, really, in terms of how we stand around the world. Thirty percent of Americans have two or more chronic conditions. And for all the reasons you mentioned, I think a lot of it has to do with our food supply. And this is something he has vowed to target.

BROWN: He has. And I think that's a really important point.

And we hear some clapping there in the room. There we see RFK Jr. I believe I saw his wife, Cheryl Hines.

MATTINGLY: That's not normal, by the way.

BROWN: What's that?

MATTINGLY: That's not normal.

BROWN: I was going to say, that's not normal. We don't know who's clapping, I should say.

MATTINGLY: And Lauren and our Hill folks would have a much - a better understanding. But like that's not normal and it also underscores what you guys were just talking about, the elements of this that people have really locked into is extraordinarily popular. It's not just the MAGA folks that would be upset if there were no votes. There's a coalition that was brought together that online influencers, there's a bunch of them that came down, I think a lot of them are at the hearing right now, that have very significant followings exactly on the issue of health, on chronic disease that is very, very popular and resonant in the United States right now.

BROWN: I think that's really important.

I want to go to our Lauren Fox, who is - who is there on The Hill. Bringing us inside. We just heard the clapping, as Phil pointed out. That's not typically normal when you hear a nominee walk into the hearing room like that. We don't know who it was that was clapping.

But bring us there and also talk a little bit about the politics here, Lauren, and, you know, the fact that he still has a financial stake in some of his anti-vaccine views that could play a role in this hearing today.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Pam