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Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA) is Interviewed about the Plane Crash; Twenty-Eight Victims Now Recovered from Crash; Sen. Dick Durban (D-IL) is Interviewed about the Crash and RFK Jr.; Joshua Schirard is Interviewed about the Washington Crash; Sen. Ed Markey (D-MA) is Interviewed about the Crash and RFK Jr. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 30, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: That area. I think Tim Kaine said it's pressed to the gills with 25 million passengers coming in and out of there. And he says it's really only meant for about 15 million passengers.

Do you think that there must be change considering what happened here?

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): We wouldn't be operating at these levels if FAA, the airport's authority and others didn't believe it's been safe. We haven't had an incident like this for decades. We all remember the - I can still remember back in the '90s when we had a plane literally go into the Potomac.

I would add, we were pushing back about adding additional flights. To my knowledge, those additional flights have not been added at this point. So, I'm not going to jump to any conclusion. But we, obviously, both have been on record that we are at - bursting at the seams at National. And candidly, the decision about adding flights or changing flights ought to be left to the FAA, who makes those decisions based on safety.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Senator, it's John Berman. And I almost hesitate to ask this. We know there were members of the U.S. Figure Skating Federation on board that flight. We've heard from Kansas Senator Jerry Moran who said that in Kansas they're almost certainly going to know people who are on board that flight from Wichita to Reagan.

Do you have any information yet that there were citizens of the commonwealth on that flight? Has anyone reached out to you to find out information about their loved ones?

WARNER: They have not reached out directly to me. I think they're going to go to the American Airlines. They put up a number. But I've got to imagine, you know, flying into National, we obviously serve Virginia, District in Maryland, but I've got to assume there are residents from the commonwealth and from our adjacent jurisdictions. But I don't know any numbers or names. KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Senator, we normally speak with you about

intelligence matters, of course, from your high-ranking position and former chairmanship of the Senate Intelligence Committee, speaking about national security and the safety of all American citizens. And one thing that this does just at its core is shake people's sense of security and safety in a very different way in talking about flying. You heard the reporters at that press conference asking, can people be confident that they can - that they can fly today?

Just speak to, if you can, because you know this, because you deal with this in a way that very few people do, just that sense of insecurity that people may be feeling right now.

WARNER: I completely understand that people are climbing on airplanes here at DCA after 11:00, or for that matter anywhere across the country. You know, nervousness, trepidation, that's a human reaction to this.

I will say, based on any kind of statistical analysis record, you know, America's skies are the, I believe, the safest in the world. But we've got to make sure we keep those air traffic controllers. We're a few thousand short. We need to make sure that we don't slack back on, you know, folks working at the FAA who are in critical, critical roles. And that's something that I know those of us from Virginia, but also, I think, I hope the vast majority of members of Congress will be supportive of.

SIDNER: Senator Mark Warner, thank you so much for your time and taking the time for us this morning on this very tragic moment in our history and in aviation history.

We are going to have much more on this. And just to remind you what we have just heard, this has changed, according to the chief of fire and EMS in D.C. from a rescue operation to a recovery operation. It is believed there are no survivors from this mid-air crash.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:38:35]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BOLDUAN: We continue with the breaking news on the tragic mid-air collision of an American Eagle passenger plane and an Army helicopter. This is at Reagan National Airport just outside of Washington, D.C. You're looking at live pictures of ongoing operations in the - in the Potomac River now. Officials just updated us that the window to find any survivors is over. They have now moved from a search and rescue operation to a recovery operation. No survivors among the 64 people on board that American Eagle Flight 5342. No survivors on board that Army Black Hawk helicopter, which had three soldiers on board at the time.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JOHN A. DONNELLY, WASHINGTON, D.C., FIRE AND EMS DEPARTMENT: We don't believe there are any survivors from this accident. And we have recovered 27 people from the plane and one from the helicopter. The district office of the medical examiner has a lead on reuniting these bodies and these people with their loved ones, and we will continue to work to find all the bodies and collect them and reunite them with their loved ones.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The investigation into what went oh so wrong is still very early and in its very early stages.

Here is more of what we know about how we got to where we are.

[08:40:01]

The American Eagle Flight 5342, it took off from Wichita, Kansas, last night. It was on its final approach into DCA just before 9:00 p.m. And that is when the collision happened with the U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopter.

We have Earthcam video of the moment of impact. The spot shadow you see is on, we believe, the plane. And then you will see an explosion.

Air traffic control audio also reveals the - the - the communication reveals the control tower was speaking with the helicopter pilot, who reported that they had the plane in sight. And then a 16 second pause.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOWER: PAT 2-5 do you have the CRJ in sight?

TOWER: PAT 205 pass behind the CRJ.

HELICOPTER PILOT: PAT-25 has aircraft in sight, request visual separation.

(SILENCE)

TOWER: (INAUDIBLE) Washington star (ph) one star three two (INAUDIBLE) one seven.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my.

DISPATCHER: Crash, crash, crash, this is an alert three. Crash, crash, crash, this is an alert three.

OPERATIONS: Tower, this is operations. Was that a helo and an CRJ?

TOWER: That is affirmative, a helo CRJ approaching into 33.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: We now know that no one did survive that crash. Let's bring in CNN's Eva McKend with the very latest.

What have you been hearing and what are you learning new this morning at this stage of the investigation?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Sara, who were on those planes is the question on everyone's mind this hour. Their stories. As you can imagine, you had family members, a husband waiting for his wife at the airport last night to greet their loved ones. And they're still waiting this morning at the airport but under a much different set of circumstances. Authorities say they don't believe there are any survivors. They've pulled 27 bodies from the plane, one from the helicopter.

What we know is the American Airlines flight departed from Wichita with 60 passengers and four crew members, with three soldiers on board that military copter - helicopter.

And this is hitting the U.S. Figure Skating community especially hard because several of their members were on board. Two world champion Russian figure skaters were on the passenger plane as well, according to Russian state media.

And we have seen Kansas senators respond to this episode, really speaking about it in personal terms.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): You know, when one person dies, it's a tragedy. But when many, many, many people die, it's an unbearable sorrow. It's a heartbreak beyond measure.

And I know Senator Moran and I are here just to - to - to say we care. We wish that there was more we could do, but, unfortunately, there doesn't seem much at this time.

I want the folks to, back home, to just know that we care, that we love them, and that this is a time when - when we'll have to join arms together and - and help each other out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: And, Sara, we have a statement from U.S. Figure Skating that reads, in part, "these athletes, coaches and family members were returning home from the National Development Camp held in conjunction with the U.S. Figure Skating Championships in Wichita, Kansas. We are devastated by this unspeakable tragedy and hold the victims' families closely in our hearts. We will continue to monitor the situation and will release more information as it becomes available."

American Airlines has set up a center at the airport and issued a hotline for family members and friends of the passengers aboard that flight. But again, at this hour, authorities do not believe there are any survivors. Sara.

SIDNER: Eva McKend, thank you so much for that update. We appreciate it.

John.

BERMAN: All right, with us now is Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, the ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

And, Senator, you were coming on this morning initially to talk about the hearings for the FBI director nominee, Kash Patel. And we will discuss that. But as someone who I know has lived and worked in Washington for years and served there as well, I'm sure your thoughts are with the victims of this air crash.

SEN DICK DURBIN (D-IL): John, this is a heartbreaking tragedy. I cannot imagine for a moment what these families are going through. But I want to tell you, I feel a sense of familiarity with the situation. Fifty round trips a year I make between Chicago and Washington. And we follow this route down the Potomac River over and over and over again, never thinking twice about it, trusting the people who were engaged in air traffic control and piloting the plane. To think that this whole plane from Wichita, it was lost, and all the passengers, as well as the military helicopter, is just a stunning tragedy.

BERMAN: It is such a loss.

Are you aware the hearing is still going on as planned today, and in less than an hour, frankly?

[08:45:06]

DURBIN: Yes, at 9:30 we're going to start the hearing on the person the president has chosen to lead the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

I can tell you, I have some questions, serious questions about his competence for that responsibility. Remember, we're talking about 38,000 criminal and civil investigators in the premier law enforcement agency, not just in the United States, but in the world. We want a person there who is responsible, experienced and can handle this awesome responsibility.

BERMAN: And, Senator, you have general questions, as you just said, about his ability to handle an agency of that size. But you also have very specific questions about a specific moment during the end of the Trump administration. Explain.

DURBIN: Well, I can tell you that there was - you don't have to go searching for a playbook when it comes to Mr. Kash Patel. He has published a book called "Government Gangsters," which goes into excruciating detail about his theories on political conspiracies and retribution against those who did not treat him properly over the years. To give this man the authority of leading the Federal Bureau of Investigation, I think, is questionable. We need someone with sound judgment who is not driven by politics, and Mr. Patel does not fit that description.

BERMAN: Understood. And I was - I was referring to the hostage rescue and his handling of classified information, in your mind, around that. And that was taking place, what, in the final months of the first Trump administration in Yemen?

DURBIN: Yes. And questions were raised not just by myself, but certainly by the secretary of defense, Esper, as to Mr. Patel releasing information at a critical moment when we were trying to bring back - rescue a hostage. And the question is, was he doing this responsibly with legal authority. And serious doubts have led Secretary Esper and others to question his judgment.

BERMAN: There are reports this morning that there were calls from U.S. governors to the minority leader now in the Senate, Chuck Schumer, saying, look, you've got to work, Democrats, to slow down some of these nominations, especially with some of the actions that the White House is trying to take. There was the now rescinded memo freezing federal money. But as a Democrat, do you think you're doing enough in these hearings to raise questions and maybe sway the potential outcomes of these nominations?

DURBIN: We're doing everything that we can legally and procedurally do in the United States Senate. We're taking this very seriously. For example, the secretary of defense, every minute that could be applied to asking questions and making background checks was done. And I support that. Same thing is true when it comes to the head of the FBI. There - we're not cutting corners. We're not trying to find some way to end this quickly. We're taking our time and doing it responsibly.

BERMAN: All right, Illinois Senator Dick Durbin. As I said, it is a difficult morning for anyone who lives in or around the beltway. Thank you for being with us. Thank you for sharing your condolences to all those who were lost overnight.

Again, we are covering this disaster, the collision, the mid-air collision of an American Airlines Flight 5342 and a U.S. military Black Hawk helicopter. No survivors. Sixty-seven people dead. This has shifted from a rescue to a recovery effort. We're going to have new reporting on the questions being asked of federal officials, and when we might get answers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:53:13]

SIDNER: Breaking news, new details just in about the deadly mid-air collision in Washington, D.C. The D.C. fire chief saying this is now a recovery mission. None of the 67 people on the two aircraft survived. So far, at least 28 bodies have been pulled from the Potomac River. And American Airlines jet and a military helicopter collided despite what authorities are calling a clear night. The jet fuselage found upside down in three separate pieces in the river. Witnesses just told us they were alerted by the horrific sound of the crash.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ABADI ISMAIL, WITNESS AND D.C. RESIDENT: I was in my living room when I heard two bang, bang around 8:50 p.m. It was loud. It was unusual. It was something you only hear on video games, on movies. Something I have never experienced. That's what caught my attention. And I start looking out the window right there. And immediately I saw the smoke on the south side of the runway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: All right, joining us now, Joshua Schirard, a commercial airline pilot.

You have flown into Reagan National many times. And I know you are still - you still continue to fly.

I want to get your sense, from a pilot's perspective, when you are looking at this. We have heard that the helicopter was able to see the aircraft. We do not yet know whether the aircraft was able to see that Black Hawk flying towards it.

What can you see on approach in an aircraft of this size?

JOSHUA SCHIRARD, COMMERCIAL AIRLINE PILOT: So, it really kind of depends on how that military aircraft is broadcasting. So, most commercial traffic and most private aircraft traffic in the U.S. uses a system called ADS-B, Automatic Dependent Surveillance Broadcasting, which has been required by the FAA since 2020.

[08:55:08]

And it communicates with all the other aircraft in the area letting us know exactly where that aircraft is so that we can see it on our avionics, even though we can't actually see it outside of the cockpit.

This system is heavily relied on, especially in these congested areas like that you'll find around D.C. So, obviously, the pilots are going to be watching this very, very closely to make sure that they're staying away from other aircraft.

While they were flying visually at night, it is very difficult to see amongst the other lights, other aircraft lights, especially with helicopters, just because they don't move like certain other aircraft. So, it may have been very difficult for them to visually see this helicopter.

Now, military traffic also are not required to broadcast ADS-B, but they do broadcast in mode s. So, the big question here is, were they broadcasting that ADS-B data, and was the - were the pilots able to see that on their avionics?

SIDNER: Yes, I do want to ask you about - you talked about some of the other things on the aircraft, like the automatic crash avoidance system on passenger jets. But we're told that that system actually shuts down at 1,000 feet. Why is that? And what can it do when it is operating? SCHIRARD: So, what you're referring to is the TCAS, which is the

Traffic Collision Avoidance System. And it does just that. Like you said, it helps us make sure that - and avoid collisions.

The part that shuts down at 1,000 or 900, or 1,100 feet, depending on how the avionics are set up, is the RA portion, which provides us with resolution advisory. So, it will, if we get close to an aircraft, it will tell us, traffic, traffic and tell us where that traffic is. If we get too close to an aircraft, that RA provides us with an escape maneuver. So, it will tell us, pull up, pull up, or go to, you know, or push down, push down. So, to give us a way to escape from that other aircraft.

It's also talking to that other aircraft, and that other aircraft's TCAS system is giving it complimentary resolution advisories, escape maneuvers, so that we can avoid. That part shuts down below 1,000-ish feet on approach because a lot of times you are very close to other aircraft and it doesn't want to give you an escape maneuver that could put you into an obstacle or into the ground.

So, there's - it's very likely that as long as the TCAS system could see that helicopter, as long as it was broadcasting correctly, it was probably giving them some sort of warning but no resolution advisory and no action to take.

SIDNER: And this mid-air crash, one of the rarest, very, very unusual. But we now know that all those that were involved have been lost. And lots of questions remain as to how this happened and to stop it from happening ever again.

Joshua Schirard, a commercial pilot here describing some of the details that you know from your perspective. We appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: And joining us right now is Democratic senator from Massachusetts, Ed Markey.

Senator, thanks for coming on.

You were coming on to talk about the confirmation hearing that's about to get underway that you're taking part in today, and we will get to that.

But first, on this. You sit on the Senate committee that has oversight of the FAA, a critical committee any day, especially after a tragic crash like this. What are your thoughts on this?

SEN. ED MARKEY (D-MA): Well, first, this is an unspeakable tragedy. My sympathies are with the families of the victims. It's a very, very sad day. Our gratitude goes out to all of the first responders who have been working overnight in order to deal with this tragedy. And it's just something that we have to get to the bottom of.

I do sit on the Senate Commerce Committee, which is the committee with jurisdiction over the FAA. So, it's too early to speculate as to what were the specific causes, but I think it's absolutely imperative that we learn the lessons of what has just happened. We can -- we can - we have to ensure that this never happens again, that families do not have to wake up to find that their - their families have been harmed in an air tragedy in our country. So, that will be the focus, I think, of the Senate committee and of the FAA.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

And President Trump has yet to name his pick for FAA administrator following the departure of - following the departure of the previous one. How important is that that they get someone in place, especially now?

MARKEY: It's absolutely critical. We need someone who is highly qualified. And, by the way, we also need to focus upon the need to have full funding for air safety, that we have the air traffic controllers, which we need, that they all get hired. We have to make sure that people have confidence that when they fly, they are safe.

[09:00:03]

And we can't just have across the board cuts in federal budget allocations.