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Sen. Tim Kaine (D-VA) Discusses Plane-Chopper Midair Collion, Trump Lashing Out at DEI, Democrats; Soon: NTSB Press Conference On Deadly Plane Collision; New Details On Victims Aboard Aircraft; NTSB Gives Update On Investigation Into Deadly Midair Collision. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired January 30, 2025 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[14:32:25]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We are tracking the latest breaking developments on the deadly midair collision between an American Airlines regional jet and an Army Black Hawk helicopter over the Potomac River.

Senator Tim Kaine, from Virginia, says he's long worried about the congestion at and around Reagan National Airport.

In fact, the Senator, last year, opposed a bill that Congress passed adding even more flights, warning that it would increase the chance of a significant incident.

Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia joins us now live.

Senator, thanks so much for being with us this afternoon.

I want to get to those new flights. But first, I wonder if you've been briefed on last night's incident, if there's anything you could share.

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): Boris. I was at the airport this morning from, I don't know, 6:30 to 8:30 or so interacting with the federal agencies, local law enforcement, the National Transportation Safety Board, Department of Transportation.

So, yes, I have been briefed. Although, the investigation was just beginning.

I do believe there's going to be an NTSB Safety Board public briefing later this afternoon. And obviously, we're very focused on that. We have a deep, deep sense of sadness about the lives that we're lost. And we -- we don't yet have the manifest but many will have been from this area.

We have profound gratitude for these first responders doing this rescue operation last night in the river, with ice, high winds. Very, very difficult work. And we thank them. State, local, federal, everybody working together. And then we just have a lot of questions, a lot of questions. But

that's what the National Transportation Safety Board's job is, to do a thorough investigation and answer the questions so that we can have answers for those affected and make improvements if we need to.

SANCHEZ: What questions would you want answered, Senator?

KAINE: The basic questions I know that we'll be looking at will be the position of the two aircraft. Were they aware of each other? Were they aware visually? Were they aware because of communication with air traffic control? Were they aware because of instrumentation on the aircraft? Those would be obvious.

Had there been any changes to the flight paths or flight plans of either that might have knocked that awareness sideways? Those are the kinds of questions, I'm sure, that the NTSB is going to be looking at.

First, we have, you know, some fragmentary information because they have released some of the -- of the dialogue from the air traffic control, but we don't have a full record yet.

SANCHEZ: Senator, you've long warned of the risk of congestion around DCA. And last year, these new flights were announced, the majority of which are set to take effect in March.

[14:35:02]

Of course, every year around the country, there are more passengers and now more flights at an airport, specifically, that can't physically get much bigger. So what needs to change?

KAINE: Well, look, I fought very hard and tried to convince my colleagues last year that it was a mistake to add more flights.

Because this is an airport that is already, especially its principal runway, among the busiest and most congested, most prone to delay, and, hence, most, you know, prone to the -- the danger of a safety risk of any in the United States.

The footprint of Reagan National was -- is very small, as you know. The -- the throughput of this airport, it was designed to take in and -- and depart about 15 million passengers a year. We're well over 20 million passengers a year now.

And that was the basis for my argument, together with Senator Warner and others, against forcing more flights in. The D.C. metro area has three airports. There's one in Baltimore between D.C. and Baltimore. There's one at Dulles.

And so the idea is, yes, it's a popular place for people to come, but you can spread traffic among the airports. And that's why we so strongly, strongly opposed adding even more flights into a situation that we thought was already dangerous.

Shortly before the vote we had last year, there was a near miss of two aircraft on the runway. That's not the only one of these. And we felt like that was a -- a flashing yellow light that I told my colleagues that should be reason not to do this.

I don't know whether the NTSB will find that it is a factor or not. But this is a congested airspace already because of commercial and military flights. There's a lot of restrictions, especially post-911.

So it's congested, it's complicated, and the airport is small.

SANCHEZ: Also, Senator, I was unaware of just how frequent military exercises involving helicopters are over the Potomac and specifically over this area, this part of -- of DCA. Do you think that needs to be reconsidered?

KAINE: We -- just coincidentally, we had a hearing with Donald Trump's nominee to be secretary of the Army today, and he was asked that question, would the Army step back, should he be confirmed, and assess when, how often, how frequently these training flights should happen.

There are some flights that aren't training flights. There are military bases right here. Marine One flies the president from Andrews Air Force Base to the White House. This is necessary, important work.

But the timing and frequency of these flights is something that needs to be examined. And the nominee, Daniel Driscoll, for the post, said that he would -- he would welcome the opportunity to be part of a dialogue about this.

SANCHEZ: That is significant.

Senator, I also want to ask you about something President Trump said at his briefing this morning. He was quick to blame Democrats and what he called a "diversity push" at the FAA as being associated with this collision.

Do you have any indication that anybody involved, whether pilots or air traffic controllers, with this incident, was hired or recruited based on DEI policies?

KAINE: Not only do I not have any information, the president was asked whether he had any evidence backing up that outrageous and stomach- turning claim, and he had to acknowledge that he did not.

Imagine, Boris, you're a family member and you've just lost a loved one, and you're grappling with answers and you're trying to figure out, and you have the president of the United States trying to blame people for political reasons or cast aspersions on folks alleging that they we're DEA hires.

I mean, can you imagine a more damaging thing to hear if you're suffering already than a president trying to make political hay out of something like this? They were still searching for bodies in the Potomac when he was running off at the mouth about this.

I hope somebody asked President Trump why he scrapped the -- why he decided on January 22nd to scrap the Aviation Safety Board and Advisory Board at the Department of Homeland Security. The order scrapping that Advisory Board said that it was not

consistent with the agency's mission toward national security. What an odd thing to say that air safety is not connected to national security.

I hope someone will ask the president the question about why he decided to do that.

SANCHEZ: Senator Tim Kaine, we appreciate you sharing your perspective and part of your afternoon with us. Thanks for joining us.

KAINE: Glad -- glad to. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: As the Senator noted, the NTSB is going to be integral in figuring out exactly what happened over the Potomac last night.

We're awaiting a news conference from the National Transportation Safety Board updating the latest details they have on the deadly crash. And we're expecting that at any moment.

[14:39:49]

We'll bring it to you, live as it happens, right here on CNN.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Welcome back. I'm Brianna Keilar at Reagan National Airport, where we continue to look for answers into this midair collision between an Army Black Hawk helicopter and an American Airlines regional jet that has cost 67 people their lives.

We are right now awaiting an NTSB press conference that is expected to begin any moment now here at the airport.

I want to go to CNN's Pete Muntean.

Pete Muntean, we really are looking toward that press conference for some answers.

[14:44:57]

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And we will likely hear from NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy or NTSB Board Member Todd Inman, who was the person on call, I'm told, when this incident happened.

Real questions for the NTSB about what they've been able to glean so far about this incident. But typically, a press conference like this is primarily just the facts, ma'am. Nuts and bolts, where they will lay out exactly what happened, how they got the call, and what investigators are doing.

The first thing that they will look at are the records of the aircraft, the maintenance records. Of course, they'll be looking into the records of the pilots as well.

They'll be looking at the air traffic control tapes, meaning the audio tapes from the control tower, but then also the radar signatures that each airplane, each aircraft in this incident provided.

The aircraft, the airplane, the American Airlines flight coming in to land on runway 33 at Reagan National Airport and that Black Hawk helicopter from one of the squadrons at Fort Belvoir, Davidson Army Airfield in Virginia.

So there was a lot to answer here. And the sad reality is the NTSB will not be able to answer all that much with a lot of granular clarity, because we are at such the early stages of this investigation. Much too soon to say, mind you, what has happened here.

We know that there is a route for helicopters, a corridor used very frequently by government and military helicopters traveling north, south, up and down the Potomac River. That is what this helicopter was on at the time.

I just spoke with a very experienced air traffic controller. He tells me that the airspace there at Reagan National Airport is so crowded, some of the most complex and busy, a controller in the tower can easily get very saturated, he told me.

Because of having to deal not only with airliners coming in to take off and land by the minute, but then also helicopters transitioning the airspace there as they go up and down the Potomac River.

The big question the aviation industry -- the aviation industry is asking right now is why this helicopter route is still able to exist.

One, Reagan National Airport is one of the busiest airports in the country. Runway 119, the main runway there is the busiest single runway in the United States, though not the busiest airport in the United States. That's a moniker held by Atlanta.

But the question is why this helicopter route is able to exist so close to the final approach path for flights coming into this airport.

And that is clearly what has happened here, that this helicopter traveling south down the Potomac River on the east side there on southeast D.C., on that border of the Potomac River.

And this flight traveling north up the Potomac River on what's called the Mount Vernon Visual Approach, apparently, told by air traffic controllers to swing out to the east and land on an auxiliary runway, a slightly shorter runway used by regional jets like this called runway 33.

Clearly, a conflict and a recipe for disaster there in the making.

The big things here that I keep talking to folks about is that the -- this is symptomatic of so many issues in aviation. The system has really been pressed to the max. And travel is at a huge peak right now.

There is so much interest in this post-Covid era in traveling, three million people, the population of Los Angeles, traveled the day -- the Sunday after Thanksgiving. So the system is really pushed to the limit. And air traffic

controllers are being pushed to the limit as well. They are working mandatory overtime. Many of them six day weeks, 10-hour shifts.

I don't use the term "tragedy" lightly, Brianna, but this is such an incredible tragedy because it was so preventable.

KEILAR: Yes, and we are certainly feeling that.

Pete Muntean, thank you so much for that.

Again, we are awaiting this NTSB press conference. We understand this is going to begin here shortly. We have just been given a warning that it will begin. So please stay tuned. And we are going to bring that to you live.

These are live pictures coming from inside the airport where I am. We'll bring that to you as soon as it begins.

In the meantime, we are learning more about the people. And that's really what it comes down to, the souls aboard these aircraft, including the crew aboard the American Airlines plane.

This is 53-year-old Ian Epstein, a flight attendant and a father of four. His sister telling CNN he loved life and his family. He made friends everywhere he went.

Also killed one of the American Airlines pilots, 28-year-old Samuel Lilley, who was going to be married this fall. His father calling this the worst day of his life, saying, quote, "It hurts so bad I can't even cry myself to sleep."

CNN's Eva McKend joining us now with details.

And those are the stories. Multiply them by 67 families, 67 circles of friends and coworkers. Eva, tell us more.

[14:49:57]

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, among the victims is this very young pilot who leaves behind a grieving family. Samuel Lilley was the first officer on the flight that crashed in D.C. last night. That's according to a Facebook post from his father.

And the victim's father actually served as a helicopter pilot in the Army himself. And he believes the military helicopter is the one that made the tragic error.

He said, in part, quote, "From what I can see, those guys turned right into the jet. I think the PSA jet was doing everything right. The Army pilot made a grave error. It hurts me because those are my brothers. And now my son is dead."

And the skating community is also reeling as well. We heard from Nancy Kerrigan today. She is, of course, a U.S. Olympic figure skater. She went to the skating club of Boston just to be in community with so many people who are just trying to process this tremendous loss.

And then we also know that a whole host of union workers, per their union, were impacted by this terrible tragedy as well.

So, so many people still processing all of this, Brianna. But it seems like it is hitting every corner with people sharing their personal stories of how they knew the many people impacted by this tragedy -- Brianna?

KEILAR: Yes, so many people here. And several of those passengers we're members of the figure skating community, as you mentioned. We are hearing many more people coming out from that community. And speaking about that.

Can you tell us a little bit more?

MCKEND: Yes, we heard from Nancy Kerrigan earlier.

Let's take a listen to what she had to say.

Oh, we don't have that sound byte, Brianna.

But essentially, she talked about how hard these young people worked, how much of a tight community that they were.

And how she couldn't bear to remain at home and watch all of these people in Boston coming up to the podium and sharing their grief and not be in community with them as she processes this tremendous loss.

And we see some of the young victims here, Spencer Lane included. Shortly before he -- he passed, we saw an Instagram post from him.

So it just gives you a sense of how quickly, Brianna, this all transpired.

KEILAR: Yes, it certainly did.

Let's go to that press conference now with the NTSB.

JENNIFER HOMENDY, CHAIRWOMAN, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: Thank you for joining us. My name is Jennifer Homendy. And I'm the chairwoman of the National Transportation Safety Board.

The National Transportation Safety Board is an independent federal agency that's charged by Congress with investigating every civil aviation and serious accident and serious incident in the United States and significant events in other modes of transportation.

I want to start by expressing our deepest condolences, our sympathies on behalf of the entire board for those who lost loved ones in this terrible tragedy. Our thoughts, our prayers are with you. Entire communities were affected and we are thinking of you.

With me today is Bryce Banning. Bryce is a senior aircraft accident investigator with the National Transportation Safety Board. He's also going to serve as our investigator in charge of this investigation. Also with me today is the entire board. We have Todd Inman, Member

Todd Inman. Todd is going to serve as the board member on scene, the spokesperson for this investigation.

All of the board members will be here. We have Vice Chairman Alvin Brown, Member Mike Graham, who lived in Wichita for 20 years. And we also have Member Tom Chapman.

The NTSB headquarters is just a mile from here. And so we are all here because this is an all-hands-on-deck event. And we're here to assure the American people that we are going to leave no stone unturned in this investigation.

We are going to conduct a thorough investigation of this entire tragedy, looking at the facts.

[14:54:53]

Now, with that, I want to level set. When we go to the scene -- and we were here last night -- we allow the responders to do their important safety mission, which, in this case, was search and rescue and recovery. We stand back to allow them to do their important safety mission.

And so this, for us, is our first full day on scene with our entire crew coming together. We have about nearly 50 people on scene, and in addition to our resources back at headquarters in our labs and throughout the agency.

So with that said, we are not going to get into specific facts in this press conference. I want to level set here. We're going to get into our investigative process. As we are able to confirm factual information, we will provide that.

I do want to say this is a whole-of-government effort. I was able to brief, along with others, the president of the United States and the vice president this afternoon.

I want to thank them for their leadership, for their tremendous support of the NTSB, for our investigators, and for the responders that are on scene doing an important mission.

I also want to thank Secretary Sean Duffy, who I was communicating with early on after we first got word of this tragedy. We've been working together throughout the day, along with his team at the DOT and within FAA.

I also want to thank Secretary Pete Hegseth, who was also integral in working with us today. Chris Rocheleau, the acting administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration.

We've heard from many members of Congress on both sides of the aisle. And so I will say this is a tremendous, one more time, whole-of- government effort.

I also want to take a moment and thank the many, many responders that have been on scene. It has been an incredible effort. And I will have a full list that I will provide -- that we will provide tomorrow. But I do want to thank them for all their work.

With that, I'm going to turn it over to Member Inman for additional remarks.

TODD INMAN, NTSB BOARD MEMBER: So today is our first full day on scene. Our investigative team will be on scene as long as it takes in order to obtain all the perishable evidence and all the factfinding that is needed to bring us to a conclusion of probable cause.

Our mission is to understand, not just what happened, but why it happened, and to recommend changes to prevent it from happening again.

Since we're just beginning our investigation, we don't have a great deal of information to share right now. We will keep you informed by giving regular updates as we learn more.

Our intention is to have a preliminary report within 30 days, and the final report will be issued once we've completed all of our factfinding and investigation.

Now, we will not be determining the probable cause of the accident while we are here on scene, nor will we speculate about what may have caused this accident.

Today, we will be going and having an organizational meeting and establishing our parties to our investigation.

We currently have the following parties that are already identified. PSA Airlines, G.E. Aerospace, Sikorsky, FAA, NACTA, which represents the air traffic controllers, ALPA, which represents the pilots, Army AFA, which represents the flight attendants.

The Transportation Safety Board of Canada will be an accredited representative under Annex 13 of ICAO. They will be supplemented by MH IRG as a technical advisor. They were previously known as Bombardier - Bombardier, sorry.

The NTSB offers this party status to those companies, government agencies and associations that have employees, activities or equipment involved in the accident.

We offer that because they will provide technical expertise and relevant information supporting the development of the best possible factual record.

Once they join this investigation, they are not permitted to release documents or talk publicly about the investigation without the consent of the NTSB.

[14:59:57]

So I want to stress this. It is only the NTSB that will provide information related to this investigation, with one exception, regarding the fatalities that occurred, that notification will be handled by the D.C. medical examiner.