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NTSB: "Whole of Government Effort" to Investigate Midair Crash; NTSB: Flight Data Recorders Not Yet Recovered; NTSB: "Very Quick, Rapid Impact," No Passenger Slides Deployed. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired January 30, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


TODD INMAN, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD MEMBER: ... information related to this investigation, with one exception, regarding the fatalities that occurred, that notification will be handled by the DC Medical Examiner. We will not be discussing fatalities or names. That will be handled by them as the proper authority.

So, we want to talk a little bit about our process. We will analyze the facts and determine the probable cause of the accident and then issue a report of those determinations. I also want to talk a little bit about some additional people that are here with us and they're very important to us and that is our family assistance group.

Later today, we will be briefing the families. We normally try to do this before a media event, but in this case they're still arriving. Our family assistance specialists are already working closely with local officials and others to help assist them in their efforts to support everyone that's affected by this accident.

And let me just reiterate what the Chair said. A loss of life in an aviation accident is very unusual in the United States and our heartfelt sorrow goes out to everyone that's affected. It affects us, affects everyone around us. There are a lot of people hurting today. We will help find out what happened. We will do it factually and we will do it accurately.

As part of this, we are going to be standing up some specific working groups. Those working groups will be operations. They will be looking at the history of the accident flight and crew members duties for as many days before the crash as appears relevant. We'll be forming a structures group which will be the documentation of the airframe wreckage and the accident scene, including calculation of impact angles to help determine the plane's pre-impact course and altitude.

We'll have a power plants group. They will do the examination of the engines and the engine accessories. We'll have a systems group. They will study the components of the plane's hydraulic, electrical, pneumatic and associated systems together with the instruments and elements of the flight control system.

We'll have an air traffic control group. They will do reconstruction and review of air traffic control systems provided to and including acquisition of pertinent flight track surveillance information, what you might typically think of as radar or ADS-B, along with controller pilot communications.

We will also have a survival factors group. They will be doing the documentation of impact forces and injuries, community emergency planning and all crash and fire rescue efforts. Also, due to the unique nature of this crash, we will be having a helicopter group as well.

Lastly, we will have a human performance group and this will not be its own group. It will actually be a part of the operations, air traffic control and helicopter groups. They will study the crew performance and all before the accident factors that might be involved in human error, including fatigue, medication, medical histories, training, workload, equipment design and work environment.

Now, we're going to take a few questions, but I will again stress we don't have a lot of information now. We will continue to gather that. We will try to release it as we can, that we will only talk about the facts of the case that we know right now. I'm going to ask - we'll be calling a few people. I'm going to ask that you state your name, affiliation.

JAMES MATTHEWS, SKY NEWS: James Matthews from Sky News. So, we've heard from President Trump today talking about DEI hiring (INAUDIBLE) within the FAA and association about women, the (INAUDIBLE), what do you say to that?

INMAN: Well, unfortunately, I didn't hear the remarks. I was briefing House and Senate members, but I believe Chair, which (INAUDIBLE) ...

JENNIFER HOMENDY, CHAIRWOMAN, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: Thank you. As part of any investigation, we look at the human, the machine and the environment. So, we will look at all the humans that were involved in this accident. Again, we will look at the aircraft. We will look at the helicopter. We will look at the environment in which they were operating in. That is part of - that is standard in any part of our investigation. I'll turn it back ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chair, can I ask you, has the flight data recorder been covered yet and what is the difficulty in a water disaster like this, which presents a very difficult environment for your investigators and to keep a lot of the water (INAUDIBLE) ...

HOMENDY: Look, the question was on the flight data recorders, and we have not recovered the flight data recorders yet. We know they're there. They are underwater. This is not unusual for the NTSB. We have many times recovered flight data recorders in water. We have our lab right here that it's about a mile from the NTSB, so it's not unusual.

[15:05:03]

And once we get those, we'll be able to get those read and information from them to be able to provide further information to you. I'm going to turn it back over to member Inman.

INMAN: Sir? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) with CBS News. Earlier today, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said a mistake was made last night based off of you all's initial investigations and preliminary findings. Have you all been able to tell whether this was human error or mechanical failure?

INMAN: The question was, is there been human error or mechanical failure? We don't know what we know just yet. We do not know enough facts to be able to rule in or out, human factor, mechanical factors. That is part of the NTSB investigative process and where all of these groups will come together. It's one of the reasons why the NTSB is known as the gold standard.

We will take the time that's necessary, but I'd also like to reiterate if we find something that is a significant issue that warrants immediate action, we will not hesitate to make those recommendations and make them public. We have a good track record on that and we want to continue doing so. Sir.

TOM COSTELLO, NBC NEWS: Hello, sir. Tom Costello with NBC News. Does (INAUDIBLE) of your investigative process - maybe for the chairman - does (INAUDIBLE) your investigative process have (INAUDIBLE) always suggesting possible causes here as you try to keep an open mind and begin this investigation.

INMAN: Chair?

HOMENDY: Tom, with all due respect, I think the press also likes to state what probable causes before we get to the probable cause. So, what I'm going to say is you need to give us time. You need to give - it's not that we don't have information. We do have information. We have data. We have substantial amounts of information. We need to verify information. We need to take our time to make sure it is accurate. That's best for you. That's important for the families. It's important for legislators who are seeking answers to try to figure out what they're going to do about this and so it will take time.

We do have a lot of information, but we need some time to verify that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) for FOX Business. I'm wondering about the conditions in the tower last night. Were there any performance issues in the past (INAUDIBLE) one of these controllers, anything (INAUDIBLE) ...

INMAN: The question is about controllers. As I said, we're just now forming the groups. The controllers do have union representation, which they're entitled to. They'll be working with our party system and our party groups. There will be conducting interviews. Those interviews will need to be analyzed, transcribed and other team members will need to look over it. It will be a long process, but we will go through the entire history.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) independent. My question is for the chairwoman. Can you tell us more about what the (INAUDIBLE) ...

HOMENDY: Sure. So, the question was about my briefing for the President and the Vice President. As a standard, we offer briefings on our process and what we know. And this was a briefing with the President and Vice President and with Secretary Duffy and Secretary Hegseth and also the acting administrator of the FAA. There was a discussion on what we know so far and our process and that was about it.

STEPHANIE RAMOS, ABS NEWS: Madam Chairwoman, Stephanie Ramos with ABC News. Similar to (INAUDIBLE) question, the President has stated what may have caused the crash, stating common sense. Does that affect your progress at this early stage?

HOMENDY: Yes. So, the NTSB, we are - we conduct an important safety mission where we take a very careful approach - I'm sorry. The question was on speculating during investigations, which is we often hear about. What I will say is we look at facts on our investigation and that will take some time. And at some point, we'll be able to provide that factual information, as Member Inman said and provide that hopefully tomorrow.

INMAN: Anderson (ph), go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) to retrieve the black box system (INAUDIBLE) ...

INMAN: So, the question was about black boxes, which are referred to as black boxes, which typically orange. We have not recovered any of the boxes involved yet. We feel comfortable and confident that we will be able to right now the recovery of what is probably most important in those that were involved.

[15:10:05]

I mean, there are still ongoing recovery efforts involving the fatalities involved, along with some debris is coming out as well. We will make sure that that perishable evidence is maintained. We have a great process for that. We will probably have more than one black box, so to speak. It's our understanding that the Sikorsky helicopter is equipped with some form of recording devices, and those will be read either by the DOD or by us. We have a good starting relationship with them, and we've already made agreements in order to be able to do that. So, I feel comfortable in what we're going to be doing.

The other question was about air traffic control. We received a very large package of information from the FAA at about 3 AM I believe this morning, that is still being reviewed and analyzed. I would say there's a lot more information that usually comes in that than what you might find online, and people might speculate about. And that is part of that overall process where we take the time to get the information correct and to make sure all the parties are engaged, involved and can fact check that information.

(INAUDIBLE) ...

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gabe Cohen from CNN. Can you tell me if the NTSB have reviewed this FAA (INAUDIBLE) work that has been cited by The New York Times, indicating that the controller that was on duty at the time of the crash was doing a job that's usually done by two people?

INMAN: We have not reviewed any specific reports about the controllers at this time, at least from the leadership team. Our investigators are continuing to pull all that information. Their personnel records, their files, where they were at, whether they were fatigued, all that information will be part of that investigative process. But right now we can't speculate on anything that may have been reported in the media until we get the opportunity to validate and understand how it impacts the investigation. We're going to take just a few more questions.

(CROSSTALK)

INMAN: Sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, (INAUDIBLE) what's the process (INAUDIBLE) as they come into the airport and how (INAUDIBLE) and the sensitivity of (INAUDIBLE) ...

INMAN: So, the question is about the families. And many of those families are still en route. Some are still being notified from both the military and from the commercial crash. There is a family assistance facility that's being stood up by American and PSA Airlines in Bethesda, Maryland. They've already been working on that standing it up. Our team from our disaster assistance team has also been coordinating with them. We plan on briefing them.

It is customary that at some point, if the families wish to go to part of the accident site, that we would arrange such a thing, but it will only be when we know that it's safe. We have the correct perishable evidence, and we can do it in the proper modesty that should be for those family members. It will be a little bit of a process, but it will take some time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, to follow up on the air traffic control ...

INMAN: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir?

INMAN: You.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) we've heard from some witnesses that they saw people looking into - come down the side of the plane. Is there any indication that people made it off the plane (INAUDIBLE) ...

INMAN: Well, again, we will not speak to the fatalities. The DC Medical examiner will. But I think the DC Fire chief this morning very succinctly said correctly that we believe there are no survivors.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) even get out of the (INAUDIBLE) ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) ... INMAN: So, hang on one second. Right now we're going through the debris fields. Nothing we've seen would indicate that maybe slides or shoots were deployed. It's a very quick, rapid impact, but we've seen nothing in that regard so far from the evidence we had. But we still need to verify all of that information.

One more question.

JEFF COOK, ABC NEWS:

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) are you looking at the family member's cell phone?

INMAN: Go ahead.

COOK: Jeff Cook ABC News, what do you know about the altitude of the helicopter at the moment of impact and can you talk about the procedure for such helicopters in that area?

INMAN: The question was about the helicopter procedures. And in DC it's kind of a unique environment. We've been getting briefed more and more by the FAA. I'm not an air traffic control specialist, but they're actually helicopter zones, if you will or tracks. And this one was transiting, I believe, from track 1 to 4 as part of their normal procedure.

If you live in DC, you see a lot of helicopters going down into this area. So, there's a very well-defined system in that regard. As far as altitude until we get the additional information, we can't validate or basically corroborate any of that until we get more of the electronic data and the data that's on the plane.

I do want to clarify one question that also came about cell phones. In today's age and time, a lot of electronics and other devices do contain a lot of different information.

[15:15:01]

We've found on a number of our accidents that we actually are notified through a smartphone that made sense of that.

As part of our process, we will obviously treat the all of the effects of the deceased with dignity. We're already starting to pull that information together. If we feel that it's necessary to find or pull some of that information, we will work with the families and make sure we do it in a manner that's respectful for them and their privacy. But right now we don't have any plans specifically on that amount, on that area until we need to. Thank you very much.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right. We are just hearing there from the NTSB as they're saying this is a whole of government effort as they've spent their first full day on the scene here, working ultimately on the conclusion of what the probable cause of this. They said their preliminary report will be done within 30 days. A final report to come after that as they work to figure out what happened and also why it happened. We just heard there from a member of the NTSB saying we will do it factually and we will do it accurately. They have not at this point recovered the flight data reporters. They are underwater and there are no answers yet to the all-important question of how this happened.

I do want to bring in Mary Schiavo and David Soucie to talk a little bit about what we just heard.

David, you're a former FAA safety inspector. Talk to us about what stood out to you.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Well, what stands out to me right now is the fact that the quality of the NTSB investigations and briefings is so much better than it's ever been under Homendy. Chairwoman Homendy has done a great job of assuring clear communications. Everything is handled. Everything's moved forward.

I wanted to also mention she didn't mention it, but I wanted to mention the efforts that the NTSB has made for consoling families of the lost victims as well. I think that's incredible movement on their part.

My concern at this point is not about the NTSB or their investigation or the fact that it will be thorough and come up with very good recommendations. My concern and Mary Schiavo will attest to this as well is what happens then. What does the FAA do with that and especially with the new FAA administrator who just started the job, will they have the chutzpah that's necessary to push those substantial changes that have to occur to prevent these kinds of things from happening? That's where I'm at with it.

KEILAR: Yes. Mary, what do you think?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: I agree completely with David. A couple more things left out at me. So, they mentioned that The New York Times had supposedly reported that the controller on duty was doing the job of two people, whether they reported it or not, I know that the NTSB will look at the impacts of the controller shortage, which, you know, has been going on for some time in the U.S.

The FAA did not keep up their hiring and training during COVID and there has been an impact on that since. And I know that the NTSB has focused on that before, and we'll focus on that again. The other thing that they said is, you know, probably giving information to the families is that there were no slides deployed and there was a rapid impact.

You know, obviously, that means that no one on the plane had time to set up for the emergency evacuation, open the slides, et cetera. That whatever happened was extremely, you know, extremely quick. And then also they mentioned the NTSB family assistance group.

But families will want to know that there is also an airline family assistance group. The airline bylaw must have that in place even before there's an accident, and they must provide support to the families in terms of funds for traveling to D. C. Memorial assistance, et cetera.

The families will have access to briefings, and they're entitled to ask for those briefings, and they will have access at some point to the accident sites, et cetera. And those rights that the families have under federal law, both NTSB and by the airline.

And so other than that, it sound like the NTSB, just as David said, NTSB doing their job as they always do, except they have a really big component on this one, and that's good. There's much to be covered. And that really helps, as David said, when the investigation was - is over because the NTSB can only make recommendations.

I often complain even when I was inspector general, I complained that all they can do is beg for change with all these facts and evidence. And it's really important that their evidence, and their facts, and their recommendations don't end up as no action.

[15:20:05]

There are many, many items on the NTSB most wanted list that end up no action taken by the FAA, et cetera. It's important to make those changes because this is a wakeup call, but actually it's a long overdue.

For months, for years, we have been hearing that the statistics on near collisions, runway incursions, near misses that a tragedy was coming and here it is. So, no one can say who would have thought, because we didn't think.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean, David, I think that's the question is you don't want to draw conclusions too soon and we sort of heard Jennifer Homendy kind of speak to that, that that is something, obviously, that - she said that with all due respect, the press likes to state probable cause before we know probable cause. We certainly have people searching for answers. I think that is the case.

And there are certainly details that you know that you are aware of, but there's also a lot that we don't know. Is there any doubt in your mind about some of the factors that could have at least aggravated the situation?

SOUCIE: No, there's not. You know, it's an interesting question because as an accident investigator on every accident I've ever investigated, which there are many, I've never seen one accident that had one probable cause, that had one cause and said, yep, that's it. There's the smoking gun and that caused it.

There is always, always going to be other things that lead up to it. There's causes ahead of time. There's things that set it up. You know, the pilot gets blamed for accidents all the time. It was pilot error. The fact is what put the pilot in that position to have to make those decisions. For example, you look at the helicopter pilot, perhaps he looked at the wrong airplane. Is that the pilot error? Well, it certainly was an error if that's what happened. But do we know what put them in that place? Maybe they were in the wrong place at the wrong time because of the system, because of how the system works. So, that's what the NTSB and the FAA when they implement changes, they're going to look at not just what happened. You can't just focus on that. And even us in the media here trying to say, well, this happened and that happened. Those are just things that we know and those are verified things that we know to put it into a bigger picture and say, here's how we change our systemic issues, the things that are going to happen again. That's what we want to do.

We don't want to see an accident happen twice. And that's their biggest fear as investigators is that after we finished an investigation and we took corrective action, that the aircraft accident happened again. And that is something that cannot be tolerated at all from the NTSB, from the FAA, nor from the military.

KEILAR: Have to learn from mistakes. David and Mary, thank you so much to both of you. Really appreciate it.

I do want to bring in our Gabe Cohen who was there in that press conference and asked that question, Gabe, about The New York Times report of a controller doing a job that was supposed to be done by two people. Tell us about that report. And also, it was interesting, the answer they haven't at this point looked into that, but they will be.

COHEN: Yes, Brianna, that's right. It's this internal report that's been referenced by The New York Times, claiming that the controller who was on duty here at Reagan when this crash occurred, was doing the job of two people. And you heard that response from NTSB officials really saying they haven't reviewed all of these internal reports and they're not going to comment on them at the at this point. They are really stressing patients right now.

From our vantage point here in the area in the airport, we can see that recovery effort happening out there in the Potomac River. I've spoken with sources who are out there in law enforcement. They have continued to recover the victims this afternoon. And as we just heard from those NTSB officials, their investigators, they have 50 of them here at the scene. They haven't even been able to get in there and to recover the data recorders and the black boxes from those aircraft. And so really, their investigation is just getting underway.

So, there's the patient side of it and there is also the political independence that they were really stressing throughout that. They were asked repeatedly about President Trump's comments about the potential role of DEI initiatives in causing this crash, and they really didn't have much of a response saying that they're going to be looking at everything that this is going to be a fact-based investigation that we know is going to take months or more likely years, and so it is going to take time.

At this point, what they are stressing is that this is most importantly about the people who lost their lives, many of whom are still just a few hundred feet from where we're standing out there in the Potomac River. Crews have been out there this afternoon, still struggling, given how mangled the wreckage is.

[15:25:04] They have had trouble getting into the fuselage to actually reach those victims to get them out. There are dive teams from across the region who are still here.

And so, Brianna, the investigation just getting underway and they don't want to jump to any conclusion, even as they're getting all of these questions, especially about the President's comments earlier today.

KEILAR: All right. Gabe Cohen live for us from Reagan National Airport, which is where we are also. Thank you. And you were looking at some live pictures there, and you may have just noticed the tail of an American Airlines plane going by. As you can see, they're working on those recovery efforts from this midair collision that happened last night. There are 50 divers who have been working throughout the day in these frigid, frigid waters of the Potomac River as we're getting some information here from the NTSB about their investigation that will be going forward.

We'll have more information after a quick break.

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