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Senators Grill Trump Cabinet Nominees; Rep. Jake Auchincloss (D-MA) is Interviewed about Panama; Butch Hendrick is Interviewed about Recovery Efforts in the Potomac; Figure Skating Community Mourns Victims; Senators Grill RFK Jr. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 31, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:30:13]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Today, the question seems to be, what are the senators going to do about it? That is after more than one of President Trump's cabinet picks faced harsh questioning in hearings yesterday. We've already talked about RFK Jr., but both Democrats and Republicans are also demanding answers and assurances from more of President Trump's nominees to be the director of national intelligence, also his choice to be the next director of the FBI.

CNN's Lauren Fox has much more on all of this for us.

Good morning, Lauren.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate.

It really seemed like yesterday several Republican senators were begging these nominees to basically give them straight answers on very specific issues that are of great importance to some of the Republicans on Capitol Hill. And I'll give two different examples of that.

Yesterday you had this really interesting exchange with Senator James Lankford and Tulsi Gabbard over whether or not Edward Snowden was a traitor. It seemed like in that scene of questioning that Lankford really was setting her up to give an easy yes answer, and she just did not give that back to him. And last night reporters caught up with Lankford, and he made clear that he was a little surprised that she didn't just answer with a simple yes, that he was a traitor. Instead, she gave a much more circuitous answer that really sort of left conservatives and Republicans on that committee with more questions than answers.

We should point out that it's not clear that she would have the votes to get out of the Senate Intelligence Committee, and that really imperils her path to becoming the next director of national intelligence.

Meanwhile, you had a very similar kind of moment yesterday with RFK Jr. In that hearing. Senator Bill Cassidy, who's the chairman of the Health Committee, he repeatedly was trying to get Kennedy to make clear that there was no link between autism and vaccines. Cassidy is a physician, and he is someone who has talked about the importance of vaccines throughout his time on Capitol Hill, including during the Covid pandemic. But it was really interesting because at the end of the hearing, despite trying to set this up multiple times, here's what Cassidy said about how he's weighing his vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): I recognize, man, if you come out unequivocally, vaccines are safe, it does not cause autism, that would have an incredible impact. That's your power. So, what's it going to be? Will it be using the credibility to support lots of articles, or will it be using credibility to undermine? And I got to figure that out for my vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: Cassidy also said in his closing statement that he may have to talk to Kennedy over the weekend to really gauge whether or not he can back his nomination or not. He said he still had questions about it moving forward.

But it was just this really interesting closing statement, really unusual that you would see a Republican really lay all their cards on the table in terms of how they are thinking about these votes.

We should note that Cassidy sits on the Senate Finance Committee as well, which will be the committee of jurisdiction to decide whether or not Kennedy gets out of the committee. It's possible if Cassidy voted against him, his nomination could be doomed right there.

So, that just gives you two examples of moments where Republicans were really trying to get these nominees to give them a very straight, easy answer, and those nominees just could not get there.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Lauren, thank you so much for that.

You know, one thing that's interesting is, Cassidy's looking for assurances. I mean that was so clear, he was begging for RFK to give him assurances. Here's the thing. He had hours to do just that, and he did not do that. So now my - my question, just from the outside looking in is, now if RFK, behind closed doors, gives you those assurances, what did he do for hours in the - in that hearing? We will - we'll see. Something to watch very, very closely. A critical week for all of this.

Lauren, thank you so much for that.

We'll be right back after a quick break.

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[08:38:19] SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this weekend, Marco Rubio will be in Central America for his first trip as the top U.S. diplomat. The secretary of state will travel to Panama as President Trump continues to push for American control of the Panama Canal, threatening Panama.

Joining me now is Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss of Massachusetts. In 2014, the congressman led a special operations mission for the Marines in the Panama Canal zone, working closely with the Panamanian Public Forces.

I'm going to start here, Congressman. You say that it is China, not Panama, that the United States needs to be hitting. You argue to keep China out of America's backyard, the next administration should get tough on China instead of Panama. And on your mission you said this, "The Panamanians were professional and pro-American. We were one team. Even the implication from the next commander in chief that Americans might fight against them is unserious and unacceptable."

He is now the commander in chief. Do you think that President Trump's threat to take back control of the Panama Canal is actually creating a threat to the United States, not alleviating one, by making U.S. allies potential enemies?

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MA): Thanks for having me on, Sara.

The threat is making the United States look feckless and reckless, not strong and tough, which is how we want to look oriented against China, particularly in the western hemisphere. Donald Trump is right to want to support the Monroe Doctrine, which is a 200-year-old American policy that says that no foreign power can interfere in Central or South America.

[08:40:01]

But his track record in his first term suggests that he doesn't actually understand the Monroe Doctrine.

His ambassador to Panama, in his first term, resigned in frustration. Panama then went on to join the Belt and Road Initiative, which is China's overseas economic development project. And then the Trump administration allowed two Chinese Communist Party-controlled companies to renew their bids to control the marine terminal operations on the Pacific and Atlantic sides of the canal for 25 more years.

So, Trump has had a bad track record on the Monroe - on the Monroe Doctrine to date. And he's trying to clean it up. But he's trying to clean it up by threatening to use force against a small ally as opposed to getting tough against China. And it's just making him look like he doesn't understand foreign policy.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you about that because it is a Hong Kong based company, as you just spoke about, that operates two ports at the canals' Atlantic and Pacific entrances. Secretary of State Rubio is now arguing he has - and he - this is - these are his words, zero doubt China has a contingency plan to shut down the Panama Canal if there was a major conflict with the U.S.

Do you share his concerns? And if this was such a big threat, why do you think that President Trump, nor Republicans, did anything about the Panama Canal in their - in his first term?

AUCHINCLOSS: Well, not only did they not do anything in their first term, he actually allowed this Hong Kong domiciled company, which is majority controlled by the Chinese Communist Party, to renew their bids for the MTOs on either side of the canal.

So, the treaty that we have with Panama already allows the United States Navy and U.S. military to defend the canal should its neutrality come under threat. There's no evidence to date that the Chinese have forward deployed any military assets to the canal zone. But if they were to do so, we would be well within our right, under the current negotiation, to defend the canals neutrality.

Trump has also been stating that the United States is being adversely treated by rates going through the canal. That's not true. We account for more than half of the trade that goes through the canal zone. And actually the United States Navy gets preference for transiting the canal zone. They change their rates depending on the volume of the ship, not depending on the - on the flag country of origin.

So, Trump needs to get his facts right. He needs to get his foreign policy oriented against China, not against an ally in Central America.

And it's not just about the Panama Canal. It's about TikTok, too. He's rolling over on TikTok to China. They're not going to take him seriously on the Panama Canal.

SIDNER: That's an interesting point.

I do want to move on to what is happening in - in the Senate, where you have very heated questions when it comes to RFK and his bid to try and become the head of HHS.

What are your thoughts on what you heard in some of his answers as he was being grilled over some of the conspiracy theories he has put out there, and whether or not he is against vaccines?

AUCHINCLOSS: The reason Senator Cassidy was so frustrated that RFK would not distance himself from conspiracy and quackery is that RFK is a conspiracist and a quack. This is someone who does not think that HIV causes AIDS. This is someone who thinks that Covid was bioengineered to target black and Caucasian Americans. This is someone who thinks that no vaccine is safe and effective, despite the fact that vaccines have saved 150 million lives in the last 50 years.

And it's not academic. He went to Samoa in 2019. He derailed their measles vaccination campaign. Eighty-three people died. The majority of them, children.

There are five states in the union right now where herd immunity levels for measles are hovering right about where you could see an outbreak. If RFK comes into office and he uses his personal social media following with the organs of state power, and he lowers vaccine adoption for new parents, you will see measles outbreaks. And this will affect children.

And so, Senator Cassidy, who has in his power, with his single vote, to tank his confirmation, Senator Cassidy needs to decide whether he's a physician first or he's a Republican first. And I know Bill. And he's a great legislator. And he's a highly intelligent physician. And I trust that he's going to remember that he's a physician first.

SIDNER: Just quickly, do you think that RFK is in real trouble here and may not get the nomination?

AUCHINCLOSS: If Democrats hang together. Because if Democrats hang together, Senator Cassidy can tank this confirmation. But if there are onesie, twosie Democrats who stray off and vote for RFK, one, that's a shameful vote, and, two, that is going to demonstrate Senate Democrats' spinelessness to the Trump administration, endangering children's public health and undermining our party's commitment to science and evidence.

SIDNER: Congressman Jake Auchincloss, thank you so much for coming on and walking us through all of that. Appreciate it.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Back to the breaking news.

With the investigation into the mid-air tragedy that happened in D.C., today divers are heading back into the Potomac River to try and bring out the remains of the last 14 victims of that deadly collision of the American Airlines jet and the Army helicopter, and also bring out critical evidence for the NTSB's ongoing investigation into the crash.

[08:45:10]

The conditions that these divers have faced from the beginning have been described as extreme, frigid, murky, muddy, zero visibility. D.C.'s Fire and EMS chief, John Donnelly, said that the ongoing recovery operations are no question dangerous.

Joining me right now is rescue trainer and diver Butch Hendrick. He's also the president and founder of Lifeguard Systems. He's been teaching and performing water rescues for more than 30 years.

Butch, thank you so much for coming in.

The cold and the ice seem to be some of the biggest dangers that these divers are facing. And I heard that the first teams that were in the water were in the water, just in the immediate aftermath of the crash, for five hours straight. What are they up against? What does this feel like?

BUTCH HENDRICK, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, LIFEGUARD SYSTEMS: Well, first of all, we have to understand that water will steal the body temperature 25 times faster than air. Now, we now put on a dry suit and thermal underwear, or covers underneath it, but very few of the teams in our country have heated thermals. So, when they get in their water, they're cold to begin with. And now they're moving very slowly. They can't move at a pace that allows the body to move blood through it well, so we're crawling, feeling, everything is braille. They don't know what kind of debris field is in front of them, or what specific dangers. So, you've got - all the pieces of the cold are incredible.

And then on top of that, if I may, we have an overhead environment. There's ice and then there's going into a fuselage and around a fuselage that's reasonably a confined space. So, we're working with a combination of two dangerous situations and the thermal concerns. Five hours, they probably couldn't take off their own equipment. They wouldn't be able to even save themselves because their hands won't work anymore.

BOLDUAN: Oh my gosh. And I also heard, when you talk about the confined space, very, very sadly, I heard it described as some of the victims were found and they were working to bring them out, that they were still buckled in their seat belts in the water. When you think about the - the confinements that these divers are working in to try to carefully and respectfully bring these victims out.

Can you add in one additional factor I wanted to get your take on as well. This crash is not in deep water. I think I heard it described as kind of waist deep water.

HENDRICK: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Initially, my untrained mind thinks that should be helpful. Is it? How does that impact things?

HENDRICK: It's not going to be helpful. There's so much mud. And we're working in braille. There's no visibility. So they're keeping it at near the surface. The current is going to affect them more than it would have been if it was in 35 feet of water with less current, because the surface current is always stronger.

And it's now impacted in mud. So, just trying to move it when they get ready to lift it is going to be a mathematical equation not to destroy any of the existing fuselage, to give - as they crawl around inside there, it - the current from the surface is affecting them. The ice is right there. It just seems, as you said, it seems that, oh, wow, it's only in shallow water. Shallow water means nothing. It's still just as dangerous and possibly greater.

BOLDUAN: And all of those sharp edges, metals, their suits, what they - how it could be impacting them altogether. Tearing their suits is also a concern I know I had heard someone else say. But thank God for them and the work that they're doing and continue to do even this morning.

HENDRICK: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Butch, thank you so much for coming on and for your help understanding this more.

HENDRICK: The dry gloves - thank you. BOLDUAN: Thank - thank you so much.

John.

HENDRICK: Thank you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this morning, the figure skating community in the United States and really all around the world mourning those lost in American Flight. 5342. CNN sports anchor Andy Scholes is with us this morning.

This is really just a devastating blow, Andy.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Certainly, John. You know, the global figure skating community just devastated as several of its members were on board of that plane that crashed. They were returning from the U.S. Figure Skating Championships and a developmental camp that was being held in Wichita, Kansas.

Now, yesterday, the European Figure Skating Championships carried on in Estonia, in what was a very somber atmosphere.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please join us now in a moment of silence as we think of those who have been lost and their loved ones.

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[08:50:01]

SCHOLES: There you see the competition pausing for the moment of silence before the free skate pairs event.

Now, the Skating Club of Boston named six victims in the crash, including a pair of teenagers that were representing the future of the sport. Sixteen-year-old Spencer Lane took first place at the 2025 Intermediate Eastern Sectionals. His mother, Christine Lane, was also killed. Jinna Han was only 13 and described by the executive director of the Skating Club of Boston as a great performer, a great competitor, a great kid. Her mom, Jin Han, was also on board that plane. Also killed were Evgenia Shishkova and Vadim Naumov, who won pairs - the pairs title at the 1994 world championships and competed twice in the Olympics. They represented Russia, but moved to the U.S., where they had launched successful coaching careers. Now, legendary skater Nancy Kerrigan, she trained at the Skating Club of Boston as a youth, and she just broke down in tears over the lives that were lost.

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NANCY KERRIGAN, TWO-TIME OLYMPIC MEDALIST: I feel for the athletes, the skaters and their families, but anyone that was on that plane, not just the skaters, because it's just such a tragic event. And we've been through tragedies before as Americans, as people, and we are strong. And I guess it's how we respond to it. And so my response was to be with people I care about and I love and need - I needed support. So - so that's why I'm here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Yes, such a tragedy for the skating community, which is a tight knit group.

And, you know, John, it's going to have a profound impact on the world figure skating championships in March, which those are going to be held in Boston this year.

BERMAN: Yes Oh, not far from the Boston Skating Club. It is such a tight knit community.

Andy Scholes, thank you very much for all that.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, new information this morning on the hostages being released by Hamas. Hamas expecting to release a 65-year-old American citizen. Details on that ahead.

And how do you turn $50 into $15 million? Maybe choose wisely at a garage sale. That story, ahead.

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[08:56:05]

BERMAN: This morning, we are learning the identities of the new round of hostages set to be released by Hamas. Keith Siegel is a dual Israeli American citizen. He will be released, along with two others, Yarden Bibas, the father of the youngest hostages taken in the attacks, and Ofer Kalderon, whose daughter and son were released during the November 2023 ceasefire.

This morning, rescuers are trying to reach the driver of a three-ton truck swallowed by a sinkhole in Japan. The hole is about 40 miles wide - sorry, 40 meters wide, and it's still expanding. The 74-year- old driver has been trapped under rubble for days now. There's been no communication for days. The area is an evacuation zone.

So, this morning, a painting once worth about $50 could now be worth $15 million. Four years of forensic analysis has confirmed a portrait of a fisherman sold at a Minnesota garage sale in 2016, a garage sale, it may very well be a Vincent Van Gogh work. LMI Group worked on the analysis. The portrait, they say it was painted by Van Gogh and they call it emotionally rich, profoundly personal and created during the final and tumultuous chapter of Van Gogh's life. That's an understatement. It was really tumultuous. They don't get to decide, though, if it was really painted by Van Gogh. That honor goes to the official Van Gogh museum in the Netherlands. And they're pretty stingy about saying things were painted by Mr. Van Gogh. They were approached first about this painting in 2018.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: Emotionally rich is exactly how I describe you often.

BERMAN: Yes. Emotionally vacant.

BOLDUAN: But still priceless, John. Thank - oh, and he walks away. Yes, that's how he feels about me.

Move to this.

During his two days of questioning on Capitol Hill, senators repeatedly pressed Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to declare that he accepts accepted science, especially when it comes to vaccine science. But RFK Jr. did not give many of the senators the assurances that they were looking for.

CNN's Meg Tirrell joins us now.

Two days of confirmation hearings. Hours and hours of questioning. Very direct. We've highlighted Senator, and doctor, Bill Cassidy in his take. What are your takeaways from what you heard?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Just as you said, it was really what Kennedy didn't say that was so notable versus what he did say, because this health hearing that we saw yesterday was a little bit different in tone from the finance hearing that we saw the day before. This was Bill Cassidy, the physician, who is the chairman of this committee, who started it out by asking for reassurances on Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s stances on vaccines and sort of a pleading with him to accept published and accepted science.

Take a listen to one of those exchanges.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): If you are approved to this decision - to this position, will you say unequivocally, will you - will you reassure mothers, unequivocally and without qualification, that the measles and hepatitis b vaccines do not cause autism?

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY NOMINEE: Senator, I am not going into the agency with any preconceived -

CASSIDY: Well, that's kind of a yes or no question because - so, if you're - because the data is there. And that - that's kind of a yes or no. And I don't mean to cut you off, but that really is a yes or no.

KENNEDY: If the data is there, I will absolutely do that.

CASSIDY: Now there is the data, just because I used to - I used to do hepatitis b, as I said. I know the data's there.

KENNEDY: Well then - then I - I will be the first person, if you show me data, I will be the first person to assure the American people to take - that they need to take those vaccines. That -

CASSIDY: Now, what concerns me is that you've - you've cast doubt on some of these vaccines recently. I mean, like last few years. But the data - and I could quote some of it, the data has been there for a long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:00:00]

TIRRELL: And this is notable because, you know, there are so many different topics that they covered in these hearings, vaccines, abortion, his knowledge of Medicare and Medicaid -

BOLDUAN: Right.

TIRRELL: Which a lot of senators