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New Video Show Moment Plane & Army Helicopter Collided; Multiple Investigations Into What Caused Collision That Killed 67; Remembering the 67 People Killed in D.C. Plane-Helicopter Collision. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 31, 2025 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:00]

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: And this is notable because, you know, there are so many different topics that they covered in these hearings, vaccines, abortion, his knowledge of Medicare and Medicaid, which a lot of senators found wanting, but the issue is going in saying he doesn't have any preconceived notions. Well, you should have some preconceived notions about established science. And Bill Cassidy, as our colleague Lauren Fox pointed out, is a key vote on the Senate Finance Committee, which will decide whether this gets even out of committee at all. So everybody's going to be watching Senator Cassidy.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also kind of fascinating and slightly troubling was there was a debate about, even among senators, about the hepatitis B vaccine.

TIRRELL: Yeah, and Senator Cassidy, who used to treat liver patients, really sort of put Rand Paul in some ways in his place by saying this is established science that providing this to newborns can prevent transmission from their mothers at birth. And that's hugely important.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Meg, thank you for your continued focus on this.

Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. A new hour of CNN News Central starts right now.

SIDNER: This morning, we are tracking several new developments in that deadly midair collision that took 67 lives. Now, just moments ago, a ground stop, which was issued at Reagan National Airport, was finally lifted. The FAA says it was in place for a very short time as the airport faced a higher volume of flights, which has been a concern.

Also, just moments ago, a brand-new post from President Trump, the president saying, and I'm quoting here, "The Blackhawk helicopter was flying too high by a lot. It was far above the 200-foot limit. That's not really too complicated to understand, is it?"

CNN has two exclusive new videos for you as well of that disaster this morning. They are difficult to watch. In both videos, you can see the helicopter appearing on a steady flight path before the collision. It doesn't look like there's any veering off by, for example, from the helicopter. Both aircraft you see plunging there into the water in just seconds.

This morning, the altitude the helicopter was flying and the interaction with air traffic control, closely examined by the NTSB, as well as the black boxes that have now been retrieved from the plane.

Let's get straight to CNN's Rene Marsh. Rene, first of all, what more can you tell us about this ground stop that was put in place and has just now been lifted?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Sara, good morning, and this is all due to the midair collision that we saw happen on Wednesday night. And the issue is that the airport, which is a busy one, has a lot of volume, but it is down one of its runways again due to that midair collision that occurred. But as you mentioned, that has been lifted at this hour.

But in the meantime, the NTSB investigation has really ramped up now that they have those black boxes from the commercial passenger plane. They have opened them. They've begun the process of reading the data on them.

And we are told that they feel confident that they will be able to get data off of those black boxes. We do expect a preliminary report from the NTSB within the next 30 days. Again, those black boxes are now in their possession and in their labs.

They're also waiting on a crane to arrive at this crash site. The crane will help them to remove the debris from both aircraft. The debris is also going to be a critical piece of evidence to give them clues and information on the two aircraft post collision. So we're waiting for that to happen. And that probably could be another day or so before that crane -- crane arrives.

And I know that the NTSB, they are tapping into expertise among their team members throughout the country. I was told that they've flown in a NTSB team member from Alaska simply because he is a former Black Hawk helicopter pilot. So tapping into his expertise.

And we're also learning more about that air traffic controllers who were on duty and in charge of navigating aircraft in the airspace on that night. We are told that one air traffic controller was in charge of two positions navigating planes, local traffic as well as helicopter traffic.

However, the source who tells us that says that that is not unusual. But these are all data points that will be important to investigators to piece together this full picture of exactly what went wrong. And that is at the core. Why did this pilot who was in the cockpit -- in the cockpit of this helicopter, who -- who -- who spoke to air traffic controllers and told them that he had sight -- line of sight on this aircraft. Why did this collision happen just 13 seconds later after he communicated that.

[09:05:09]

Sara?

SIDNER: Rene, we should mention, you know, Kate just spoke with one of the board members of the NTSB who said this could be many different things, although we are now hearing from the president and we have heard from experts and he seems to be parroting the experts on aviation, that the helicopter was in the wrong position, that it was much higher than it should have been. We will see some of these details coming out over time because the black boxes have also been retrieved. But a lot to unwrap here.

Rene Marsh, thank you so much for your reporting there from Reagan National for us this morning.

Kate -- or John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah, no. Well, what you're talking about there right there, Sara, is the "New York Times" is reporting that the helicopter may have been flying at a higher altitude than it should have been. That is what President Trump wrote just a short time ago on social media as well.

Let's get to see it as Natasha Bertrand at the Pentagon for the very latest on what we know for sure.

Natasha?

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the short answer is that the army is waiting for the investigation to play out. However, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, he did go on "Fox" a short time ago and acknowledge that one of the aspects of this that they are investigating, of course, is the elevation, is the altitude of that Black Hawk and whether it was flying too high and whether it was on the correct path. Here's a little bit of what he said earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We're looking at altitude. And the president was clear about that someone was at the wrong altitude. The investigation will help us understand that. Was the Black Hawk too high? Was it on course? Right now we don't quite know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: So we know at this point that this Black Hawk was on a pretty routine training mission, that two of the pilots, both pilots on board, they had over 1500 hours of flight time between them. So they were not inexperienced. There were no junior pilots on board, for example, and they would have flown this path multiple times.

But the question now is whether or not they ever deviated from the established routes. They were apparently taking Route 1, which is an established helicopter route down the Potomac, and then they shifted to Route 4. Was there any kind of odd, anything odd about the way that they shifted towards that route? That is unclear at this point. Also their elevation. At the time of the collision, right at the

moment that they collided with that passenger plane, that helicopter was at 200 feet, which is the maximum altitude that these helicopters are supposed to be flying on these routes. But the question is, was it ever higher than that beforehand? And if so, why?

Now the Black Hawk is equipped with a recording device, according to the NTSB. Unclear at this point whether that has actually been retrieved. And so they're waiting at this moment, really, to get that information and figure out what exactly happened here.

Meanwhile, we are learning more about the identities of two of the crew members who were on board that Black Hawk. One of them is Andrew Eaves. He was a Chief Warrant Officer II, and he was the instructor pilot with over 1,000 flight hours. And the other member that we know of at this point was Ryan O'Hara, and he was the Crew Chief who would have been sitting further back in the helicopter.

At this point, we don't know the identity of that other pilot. However, we are expecting to get a little bit more information, hopefully, from the Army later today.

BERMAN: All right. Natasha Bertrand of the Pentagon. Notable that the Secretary of Defense is out there saying unclear what altitude the helicopter was at.

At the very same time, President Trump is posting on social media he thinks it's clear the helicopter was too high. We will see how that gets worked out. Thank you for your reporting on this.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: And joining me right now is Captain C.B. "Sully" Sullenberger, a man we know has many titles. As we've talked over the years, Captain, served as a U.S. Ambassador to the International Civil Aviation Organization, a bestselling author, and the pilot of the Miracle on the Hudson.

Ambassador, it is good to see you again. What goes through your mind, someone with the most unique experience, when you see the videos of the American Eagle flight on that final approach and that horrific midair collision?

CAPTAIN C.B. "SULLY" SULLENBERGER, SAFETY LANDED PASSENGER PLANE IN HUDSON RIVER IN 2009: I think horrific is exactly the word that I would use. Learning of this horrific collision and the loss of life, I was devastated. And my thoughts go out to the families. You know, I've been an accident investigator myself in the Air Force and at the airline. I have talked to family members who had lost loved ones. Our thoughts have to be with them.

And we have to be patient. You know, in this age, everyone wants to know everything immediately, and that's not how these investigations should go. We should avoid speculation, because the initial suppositions turn out sometimes to be wrong.

[09:10:00]

The NTSB is the gold standard of investigations of accidents around the globe. They will follow their processes. They will follow the data and the evidence.

And we ultimately will know what we need to know. Right now, we just don't. What we need to do is support the families, recover those lost in the river, and facilitate the NTSB doing their jobs.

BOLDUAN: Ambassador, I had one of the board members of the NTSB on, and he said people can be assured of their independence, of their investigation, as they have maintained over the course of years that they've been in existence. Does it concern you, does it bother you when -- while that is happening, elected officials of every level, from local on, as we know, up to the White House, are getting out in front with speculation? Do you think that threatens an investigation at all, or threatens, I don't know, public confidence in how this all will play out?

SULLENBERGER: The investigators are going to do their jobs regardless of what people say or don't say. But what's been said has not been helpful.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. After, almost immediately after this happened, I've heard people raise concerns, again, because it's not new concerns, it's existing concerns, and raising them again about the congested airspace around Washington and D.C. and DCA, that it is too congested, I kept hearing from some, dangerously congested. Do you think that might be one of the lessons, potentially, that needs to be learned from this?

SULLENBERGER: Well, the investigators will do a lot of investigating and consider every possible scenario and every factor that may or may not have been a factor in this crash. We absolutely should be reviewing airspace, not just here, but in other places where there's a complex mix of traffic, where there's not a lot of wiggle room between one area where somebody might fly at a certain altitude and another area that's very close nearby.

We need to be building a lot more safety into our systems so that there are multiple layers of safety, and a single mistake, a single error, a single exceedance should not cause a fatal crash. We need to have more levels of safety built into every part of our system, including the airspace design, to build in some safety levels that can keep these things from happening because of a single mistake.

BOLDUAN: When it comes to the wildcard factor of water and landing near water, I mean, obviously, when the miracle in the Hudson happened, it was morning when you were forced to pull up that ditching on the Hudson. How complicated, how much of an additional challenge factor does it add in that like -- that approach on right above the water as you're heading into DCA? What does -- how does water factor into this?

SULLENBERGER: Well, I think more important than that is the fact that it was night, and only illuminated obstacles or illuminated vehicles can be seen at night. If it's over water and there are no ground lights, it makes everything harder. It's harder to see other aircraft. All you can see is the lights on them.

And so we have in most of our aircraft devices that can detect the presence and the direction and distance of other aircraft based upon their air traffic control transponders transmissions. And we need to be using every bit of visibility we can, either visually or electronically, to make sure that we know what other aircraft are nearby and can safely avoid them.

It's -- I think the example I would use is, if you're driving a car, even if you have the right of way, you have an obligation to avoid a collision. And the same, of course, is true. What happened or why this collision occurred, exactly all the factors involved. But you can be sure that the NTSB will ultimately find the solution and make it public.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. Captain, Ambassador, it's good to see you again. Thank you so much for coming in.

Sara?

SIDNER: All right. We are learning new information this morning about the victims of that midair crash, including the pilot of the American Airlines flight who was engaged to be married this fall, and a promising young civil rights attorney as well.

[09:15:13]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY STRONG, FORMER LOCAL PAGEANT DIRECTOR: And I had just seen her about a month ago, and she had some good news for me that she learned to be a law professor at Howard University this fall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: President Trump says he plans to visit with some of the victims' families, but his focus all day yesterday was on placing blame, mostly on diversity hiring, with no evidence to back that up. His comments getting fiery pushback today from some lawmakers and aviation experts. Those stories ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:20:14]

BERMAN: This morning, new information about some of the 67 victims lost in the midair collision over the Potomac. Flight attendant Ian Epstein was 53 years old. His sister says he spoke of passengers as if they were his friends. A former colleague says Epstein was just great at his job.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARRICK MCFADDEN, FRIEND AND FORMER COLLEAGUE OF CRASH VICTIM: Ian was just a ball of vibrant, like colorful energy. Just someone I've never encountered before. Like this -- this -- this human being, this man just held together the greatest satisfaction for flying. He'll be sorely missed. I miss him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, CNN's Eva McKend is in Washington. And Eva, you're getting new information about some of the victims.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: John, Sam Lilley, he was going to get married this year. He was piloting that American Airlines flight. His dad was really proud of him when he became a pilot. He was the first officer on that flight.

And then you have these young lawyers, Sarah Lee Best and Elizabeth Anne Keys. They were associates of the same firm and are being remembered as cherished members of their community. Keys was 33 years old, a Cincinnati native, and went on to graduate from Tufts University. Sarah Lee Best is being remembered for her boundless curiosity, kindness, and intelligence.

And then there is this Harvard-trained civil rights attorney, Kiah Duggins. She served as president of the Harvard Legal Aid Bureau and was set to become a professor at Howard University School of Law this fall. Here is how her former local pageant director is thinking about her today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STRONG: Kiah was probably one of the nicest young ladies you've ever met. She was bright, intelligent, smart. She set up a project for underserved young ladies on helping them get into college, and it was called the Princess Project. Such a bright future ahead, such a bright future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: So, John, obviously there is tremendous sadness in all corners, and what strikes me about this whole episode is that there are so many young people among the victims with such great promise, and of course their lives have been cut short.

John?

BERMAN: It is a great point. It's so much lost, such tragedy. Eva McKend, thank you very much for helping us get to know some of those who were lost there.

In the meantime, new sweeping claims from President Trump about the plane crash before determinations from investigators.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:27:21]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, to be clear, are you saying race or gender played a role in this tragedy?

DONALD TRUMP (R), U.S. PRESIDENT: It may have. I don't know. Incompetence might have played a role. We'll let you know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That was President Trump continuing with his speculation without any findings from the initial investigation into what caused Wednesday's plane crash. The NTSB was on with us today saying they have no findings whatsoever. So far, 67 people were killed in this tragedy.

CNN's Alayna Treene is at the White House. She's got more on this side of it on what is speculation. Alayna, and the President is now on social media speaking about this more today. What is he saying?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: That's right. We have heard now from the President directly for the first time today. He posted on his "True Social" website, suggesting that perhaps the Black Hawk helicopter was flying too high before that midair collision. I'm going to read for you exactly what he wrote. He said, quote, "The Blackhawk helicopter was flying too high by a lot. It was far above the 200-foot limit. That's not really too complicated to understand, is it?"

Now, Kate, it's unclear whether the president's post here followed or was about from an official briefing on this or not. But I will say it does come after we know that "The New York Times" had posted that the helicopter in when or reported, I should say, that the helicopter in Wednesday's collision may have been flying outside of the normal altitude higher than it was supposed to be and at least half a mile off of the approved route.

We also heard from Donald Trump's newly confirmed Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth this this morning. He was on "Fox News," also saying that it seems like there was some sort of altitude issue here, but they still don't really know. He said, someone was at the wrong altitude, again, right now, we don't quite know.

Now, just to be clear and also to get to some of that sound you played of the President from yesterday. There are so many unanswered questions right now, Kate, about what exactly led to that crash on Wednesday. We know that local and federal officials are still investigating this very thoroughly.

But we also heard the President yesterday, as you alluded to, claim without evidence that the Obama and Biden administrations' policies as well as the idea that hiring practices specifically related to Diversity, Equity and Inclusion hiring at the FAA and within the military could have played a role. We know that the President also signed a memorandum yesterday, essentially opening an investigation into the Biden administration, what the White House referred to as the damage done to aviation safety under the Biden administration and specifically looking.