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FAA Indefinitely Closes Helicopter Routes Near Reagan National Airport; Families, Friends Honor The 67 People Killed In DC Tragedy; Confirmation Of Some Of Trump's Controversial Picks In Question; Most U.S. Companies Say Diversity Is Good For Business. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired January 31, 2025 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[13:30:00]

SHAWN PRUCHNICKI, FORMER ACCIDENT INVESTIGATOR: -- a routine basis. So there's nothing abnormal about the regional jet swinging around to use runway 33.

Something that the NTSB, of course, is going to look into is the altitude of the helicopter. There may be a good reason why they we're higher than normal.

We don't know what was going on in the cockpit of the helicopter. And we're going to need to listen to that CER to find out why that might have been.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Earlier today, a pilot speaking to CNN's Pam Brown said that he wished that the Blackhawk pilot could have had stronger communication with the air traffic controller.

That the ATC could have perhaps been more specific when asking the pilot of the Blackhawk, as we've now heard in that audio, about which plane they had seen, which plane they had visual separation from.

When you hear that audio, when you hear those details, what do you think about that communication? Could it have been more thorough?

Well, the only thing that stands out is, as a former airline pilot, usually when traffic is called to you is they will give a direction where it is, like the -- like the hands on a clock. So 12:00 or 1:00 or a position like that.

So that's the only thing that might have been helpful. Now, usually, when controllers. Do it the way that this was done, usually they're implying that the -- the target or the airplane is basically right in front of you.

What we don't know is, was the helicopter, when they said, you know, that they have the traffic, was it this airplane or were they looking beyond it and they saw another airplane? And that's the one that they thought the controller was talking about.

We need to listen. The NTSB needs to listen to the CER and the helicopter. That's going to be that's going to give a lot of information to the NTSB to understand, what were the discussions that we're going on? What did they see? What were the -- (TECHNICAL PROBLEM) -- at about 400 feet?

We don't know. There might have been a good reason why they felt the need to climb a little bit higher. Were they having mechanical problems? Were there other issues?

We can't speculate right now why they were at that altitude. We do know that they are normally lower, that they are normally around 200 feet.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And, Shawn, I just wonder, we know that this is an issue, right, of the -- it's like Swiss cheese kind of lining up, right? You have holes.

What are the different holes that you we're looking at that have lined up here for essentially the ball to drop through?

PRUCHNICKI: Well, I think one of the things that really stands out --

KEILAR: Sorry, I meant Vincent.

Vincent -- sorry -- can you answer that?

VINCENT SUGENT, FORMER AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: I have to say, the question again, please.

KEILAR: When you're looking at the different things that line up for the ball to drop through, right, this is sort of an alignment, essentially, of mistakes. That's so often how we see these things.

And there's a lot we don't know at this point. It's a very complex situation. But I do wonder what questions are coming up for you as you are looking at the potential alignment of those.

SUGENT: Well, listening to the tapes that everyone else has listened to, and as I said last night, it appeared to me that everything he'd done, the controller did, was proper.

He didn't sound rushed. He didn't sound panicked. And then also on top of that, there was no urgency from the pilot. So he assumed that the pilot was talking about the same airplane he was talking about.

And none of that seemed to bring really any sort of alarm to anybody. The pilot sounded calm. And said he's seen the airplane moving right up to it., It appears -- and again, I haven't -- you know, I've never been a pilot.

But it appears that if the letter of agreements or whatever agreements they have with those -- with those helicopters and the military, that they have to stay at a certain altitude.

And the controllers are assuming he's going to, you know, do as he's -- they agreed to do. And unfortunately, if that's what happened, then that's the final hole that was filled, unfortunately.

But from my point of view in everything I've seen from -- from my -- my background and my experience, it didn't seem to me, from the controller point of view or the pilot point of view, at that point, that -- that the holes were lining up until the last minute, until they either climbed or misidentified the wrong aircraft, which is -- which, you know, can happen.

SANCHEZ: Vincent and Shawn, we very much appreciate your perspective. Thanks. Thank you both for joining us.

[13:35:05]

We are also learning more about the victims lost in this tragedy. Our breaking news coverage continues after a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: We are learning some new details about some of the victims of this devastating crash, including the servicemembers aboard the Blackhawk helicopter.

We have CNN's Eva McKend who is with us now.

This is really where the focus should be. What can you tell us, Eva?

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: It is Brianna, as you can imagine, because of all of the lives lost. With each passing hour, we learn of additional names.

[13:40:06]

Now we have the name of Andrew Eaves. He was the instructor pilot on that helicopter. The chief warrant officer two. He is a Brooksville native, Brooksville, Mississippi.

I looked up the community. Just about a thousand people live in Brooksville. And so you can imagine being a native of someplace like that, it's just compounded grief because a lot of people, presumably, in this small town, yes, know him.

Ryan O'Hara, he's a Georgia native. He was on that helicopter as well. He was the Blackhawk crew chief. He was sitting in the back of the helicopter, so he was responsible for the maintenance of the aircraft.

Eaves had about 1,000 hours of flight time. So he was an experienced pilot.

But these are, you know, two of many, many, many stories that we have just been hearing all day as their families process this tremendous loss.

KEILAR: Yes. Just the size of this grief, 67 people, 67 lives, circles of family and friends.

Eva, thank you so much for keeping the focus on them. We do appreciate it.

And several of President Trump's picks for his cabinet may be in trouble after many days of contentious Senate hearings. We'll have more on that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:45:49]

SANCHEZ: Now to the confirmation clashes of some of the most- controversial Trump nominees that are still seeking Senate approval. Tulsi Gabbard, Kash Patel and Robert Kennedy Jr all faced hours of questioning during confirmation hearings yesterday.

And the responses from two of them may have put their nominations at risk.

Gabbard, of course, is up for director of National Intelligence, and Kennedy is tapped to lead the Health and Human Services Department.

Let's first focus on Gabbard. Republican Senator James Lankford said her refusal to call U.S. intelligence leaker, Edward Snowden, a traitor is a problem for him.

We want to play some of that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): So was Edward Snowden a traitor?

TULSI GABBARD, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE NOMINEE: Senator, my heart is with my commitment to our Constitution and our nation's security.

LANKFORD: Was he a traitor at the time when he took America's secrets, released them in public and then ran to China and became a Russian citizen?

GABBARD: Senator, I'm focused on the future and how we can prevent something like this from happening again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CNN's Lauren Fox is live for us on Capitol Hill tracking all of these hearings.

Lauren, what are you hearing from Republicans about Gabbards chances of being confirmed?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, after Lankford's exchange with Gabbard yesterday, reporters caught up with him in the evening and asked him whether or not that answer was weighing on him, given that she just refused to say that, yes, he was a traitor.

And this is what Lankford said, quote, "I thought that was going to be an easy softball question. Actually, I think there were a lot of questions after it. Yes," he said, referring to the fact that he was concerned about her answer. He does sit on the Intelligence Committee. And just a single

Republican no vote on that committee could imperil her nomination from even getting to the Senate floor. So that is a serious concern.

Then there were other lawmakers who weren't on the committee who were watching this hearing.

Senator John Curtis, a freshman lawmaker from the state of Utah, said this: "I leave today's hearing with more questions than answers. Some of her

responses and non-responses created more confusion than clarity and only deepened my concerns about her judgment and what they will mean for this vital role" -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: And, Lauren, what about RFK Jr?

FOX: Yes, this was another really important moment in yesterday's hearings. Bill Cassidy, who serves on both the Senate Finance Committee and the Health Committee, repeatedly asked RFK essentially to just say that vaccines were not causing autism, something that has been proven over and over again not to be a link. And RFK Jr just refused to say it.

And what was really interesting is Cassidy, in his closing arguments, Boris, essentially said he is really weighing whether the fact that his experience as a doctor and his willingness to share with parents the preponderance of evidence weighing in favor of vaccines -- vaccinating their children with the fact that he is worried that RFK's microphone is so large, he's going to have such an important position at HHS.

Is he convinced that Kennedys really had a change of heart on vaccines? And he said he is going to be weighing this over the next several days, and that he may reach out to Kennedy again over the weekend. That's just a really important vote, because Cassidy sits on Finance.

And once again, if one Republican on that committee votes no, that could imperil the nomination from ever getting to the floor -- Boris?

SANCHEZ: Yes, certainly -- certainly not a vote of confidence there from Cassidy. We'll see if Republicans fall in line.

Lauren Fox, thanks so much for the reporting.

[13:49:29]

So as President Trump cracks down on diversity, equity and inclusion at the federal level, many big companies are actually keeping their own DEI policies in place. Why they believe it's good for business.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: All right. We are just, you know, awaiting a press conference coming from local and agency officials from the Reagan Airport. That is going to be here in about the next hour. So stay tuned for that. We'll bring that to you.

But in the meantime, today is the deadline for federal agencies to submit written plans detailing how they'll get rid of jobs and offices linked to DEI.

But as the White House runs away from diversity programs, most companies actually remain committed to finding the value in recruiting employees from different races, genders, classes, religions and other backgrounds.

Let's bring in CNN's Nathaniel Meyerson.

Nathaniel, tell us what companies are saying about the benefits of DEI?

NATHANIEL MEYERSOHN, CNN BUSINESS REPORTER: So, Brianna, as we all know, companies are in the business of making money and doing what's best for their bottom line. And they've decided that DEI initiatives are good for their profits.

[13:55:03]

There's some research from Boston Consulting Group that shows that -- that diversity and DEI initiatives are good for profits. They also help companies attract a wider range of talent.

So you're looking to hire, you know, minorities, women, veterans, people with disabilities. You're trying to find the best talent from a wide pool. And then DEI initiatives also help them develop products and services that customers want.

I want to take a look at what Costco had to say about DEI, because I think it's really telling. Costco said that it, "Diversity, having a group -- a diverse group of employees is good for its treasure hunt shopping experience."

So that -- that -- when you go to Costco and you look for those unexpected items, Costco is saying that you find them because it has a diverse group of employees.

KEILAR: That's really interesting. But what about companies that are making changes to DEI, like Walmart, like Amazon, like McDonalds?

MEYERSOHN: Yes, Brianna, we've heard a lot about companies kind of backtracking on DEI and making these -- these changes.

But when you really drill down at what's happening, the changes are actually pretty minor. They're making some cosmetic changes. Maybe they're changing language or -- or metrics.

They're not abandoning their commitments to try to expand diversity and find the best talent. In some cases, they're doing it to try to kind of get the right-wing pressure off of them.

And when you step back and actually look at the broader base of companies, most companies are still committed to DEI. And 97 percent of Fortune 500 companies still have DEI statements on their Web sites. And that's according to the Heritage Foundation, which is a right-wing group.

KEILAR: It's really interesting. I guess find the DEI Department, maybe it's got a different name.

Nathaniel Meyerson, thank you for that report.

And minutes from now, as I mentioned before, D.C. officials -- and this is a live picture coming to us as they are preparing to give this -- they're scheduled to give us an update on what is now a recovery mission on the Potomac River.

We will be live at Reagan National Airport. Here's a live picture of the river. Obviously, some adverse weather conditions that they are dealing with there now.

We'll be back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)