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Interview With Connecticut Attorney General William Tong; Musk and Trump Targeting Department of Education?; Trump's Trade War With China Begins; FBI Employees File Lawsuit Against DOJ. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired February 04, 2025 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:20]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Breaking news into CNN, FBI employees filing a class action lawsuit against the Department of Justice, this after Trump appointees at DOJ demanded the FBI leaders report all employees who worked on cases involving President Trump and January 6. So what happens next?

Plus: Beijing strikes back. President Trump may have bought some more time when it comes to a trade war with Mexico and Canada, but China says it's on. How this could impact you.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And egg-treme sticker shot. Waffle House leaving its customers scrambling after it places a surcharge on every single egg that it sells. Why your omelets are costing more.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: We start this afternoon with breaking news.

FBI employees have sued acting Attorney General James McHenry, accusing the Department of Justice of violating the Constitution and privacy laws by demanding that agents complete a survey allegedly designed to purge bureau personnel who were involved in January 6 cases.

CNN senior justice correspondent Evan Perez joins us now.

Evan, what are you hearing, about what is going on at FBI now that this deadline has come and gone?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the deadline was, noon.

So, as of an hour ago, our understanding was that the FBI, leadership was going to comply with the demand for these names to be provided. And so this lawsuit really is about what happens next, which is that the agents are demanding that the Justice Department not publish their names, because what we have seen before, Boris, is that the publication of the names of agents who are involved in any Trump- related cases results in harassment, in threats to those to their families.

They get doxxed. And so that's one of the first things that is being addressed here in this lawsuit. Obviously, the larger question is whether these agents will be targeted for termination or demotion or any other kinds of punishment, right? That is partly what is at issue here.

You remember, on Friday, the Justice Department was headed towards doing dozens of potential firings, and then suddenly seemed to -- everything seemed to come to a pause, right? And the reason for that is that Kash Patel, the nominee to run the FBI on Thursday, had testified.

And he had said at his Senate hearing that agents would not be punished for the work that they did on cases that they were assigned, right? And so that is what really kind of made everything kind of come slow to a halt, and now there's this process that has been put in place.

Now, Emil Bove, who's the acting deputy attorney general, says that there's going to be a review of the agents who worked on all these cases. We're talking about thousands, thousands of FBI agents and analysts who did anything related to January 6.

SANCHEZ: Who didn't choose to work those cases. Those were cases that they were assigned.

PEREZ: Correct. They don't have a choice on which cases to work, and so that's part of the issue here. Agents say that they're being threatened with termination for simply doing their job.

So we don't know yet what process is going to be in place. There's a couple of things to watch. Pamela Bondi is the incoming attorney general. We expect that she's going to be confirmed as soon as tomorrow, and we will see what path she takes on handling this review that has now been set up.

SANCHEZ: Yes, something to watch closely there.

Evan Perez, thank you so much -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Let's talk about this now with former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe.

Andy, do you think that this is going to work, this lawsuit?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think it tips the scales somewhat in the agents' favor, which is absolutely necessary.

It has the advantages of taking this process, which seems designed for only one result, right, to put the department and bureau leadership in a position of purging these agents for doing the lawful work that they did, and it now introduces some degree of judicial review or oversight of that process, some neutral third party, our courts, that can step in and say what you're doing here is denying these agents their due process rights.

And you are also putting them at risk by potentially violating their privacy rights under the Privacy Act if you release their names to the public. So, it's -- I think, it's a great move. I think it's necessary for them to stand up and defend themselves, and this is the proper way to do that at this point in the process.

[13:05:04]

KEILAR: And so when it comes to all of this, how -- and this was before this lawsuit was filed. In a note to all employees on Friday, Acting FBI Director Brian Driscoll said that leaders would follow FBI policy.

I mean, what does FBI policy say? How are you reading what he's saying?

MCCABE: It's really interesting.

He's getting a lot of credit for standing up, on behalf of the agent population and defending them against this effort, but he is somewhat limited as well. In his case, if the Department of Justice simply comes in and says, hey, we want a list of agents who are doing particular work, there's a hard -- it's hard for him to push back on that, because what they're asking for on its face is not obviously unlawful or unethical.

Now, we all know what they intend to do with that information, which is why the agents, who are the vulnerable players in this drama, they have to stand up and defend their rights in court, as they're doing with this suit. But Driscoll's in a very tough spot.

And let's remember that the more he pushes back against DOJ, the more likely it is we hear tomorrow that Brian -- that Driscoll is gone and has been removed from the FBI, in the same way that they pushed out the leaders of the branches. So the EADs, executive assistant directors, very high-ranking people at headquarters, almost all of whom now have been forced to retire, against their will.

KEILAR: Trump's pick for FBI director, Kash Patel, promised under oath that rank and file FBI agents would not be retaliated against. What should we make of what he told Congress?

MCCABE: In my opinion, Brianna, very little.

Kash Patel said so many things in the course of that hearing that were obviously and provably false that I think folks in the FBI would be ill-advised to take his word.

To put any value in his word and his claims that he's going to stand with FBI agents against Donald Trump, the person who he has so many times pledged and indicated absolute, slavish loyalty to, that is hard really to believe that once he gets in charge, if he gets the order to start separating out people who were participants in the January 6 cases for retribution and punishment, reassignments, real career- ending sort of personnel actions, it is very hard for me to believe that Kash Patel is going to stand up for those people.

KEILAR: You know, if there were not other things going on in Washington, what we're seeing happening at DOJ would be the top story.

But there are just so many things that are happening. We're seeing this dismantling of the federal work force. With some of these other stories stealing some of the oxygen, do you think that Americans understand what is at risk at the Department of Justice?

MCCABE: I really don't. I don't think they understand.

And this is a -- these two entities, the Department of Justice and the FBI, are institutions that come in close and impactful contact with Americans every single day, hundreds, maybe thousands of times a day across the country.

And what is happening here, first of all, it's horrendous what they're doing to this population of people who did nothing other than the work they were assigned, the lawful, appropriate, consistent-with-policy work they were assigned on the January 6 cases.

But let's think for a minute of what this looks like after that group of people are fired. The agents who are left are confronting a situation that FBI agents haven't even imagined since -- in the post- Hoover era. And that is, what do I do when I'm asked to do something unlawful or unethical, but it -- but then am I putting myself in a position where I might be fired for angering the wrong politically connected person?

That is not a calculation that's ever -- that's ever gone on in the FBI, and it will have been introduced by the fear of having watched the termination of their innocent colleagues.

So this is an act that will destabilize and really shake the foundations of the FBI and its ability to protect Americans for generations.

KEILAR: All right, Andrew McCabe, thank you so much. We do appreciate your perspective -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Just hours after President Trump hit the pause button imposing tariffs on Canada and Mexico, his promised tariffs on China have kicked in.

[13:10:00]

And, today, it's Beijing punching back with taxes on U.S. goods, 15 percent tariffs on U.S. coal and liquefied natural gas, plus a 10 percent tariff on U.S. crude oil and large cars and pickup trucks. Those tariffs are set to go into effect on Monday.

Beijing also is taking action against a selection of U.S. companies, including Google and the company that owns Calvin Klein and Tommy Hilfiger.

CNN's Matt Egan joins us now. Matt, first, walk us through exactly what's being targeted with these

new tariffs and why.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Boris, this is a swift response from China, wasting no time here, but it also looks like a carefully calibrated response, one that seems designed to keep things from getting out of control.

So, as you mentioned, 15 percent tariff set to go into effect on Monday from China on coal, on liquefied natural gas, 10 percent on crude oil, farm machinery, and some vehicles. There's also some non- tariff actions here that you mentioned. There's some new export controls on metals.

There's this -- two new firms that have been added to the sanctions list and this anti-monopoly investigation into Google, which we should note has pretty limited operations in China. I think what's telling here is what Beijing didn't do, right?

They didn't put tariffs on everything they get from the United States. This is just a small slice of what they import from the U.S. They didn't go after Apple or McDonald's here or American farmers either. So reading between the lines, this retaliation does seem like it's aimed at trying to prevent temperatures from getting out of control here, right, because any time you have a trade war, the risk is that there's this cycle of escalation, where each country lobs higher and higher tariffs, and there's no off-ramp.

So it is a relief to see a measured response from China. Still, though, Boris, this does feel like very early days in the U.S.-China battle here on trade. One analyst at T.D. Cowen, Chris Krueger, he told clients today, he said increased tariffs remain a question of when, not if.

SANCHEZ: Yes, remember, Trump vowed a 60 percent tariff on Chinese goods. This is just 10 percent, so that may be as far as he's willing to go.

Matt, where exactly will consumers feel the sting of these Chinese tariffs? On what goods?

EGAN: Yes.

Well, the obvious places to look are where the U.S. imports the most amount of stuff from China. So think about electronics, televisions, smartphones, right, computers. A third of U.S. imports in that category comes from China. Also, we import a significant amount of clothes, chemicals, electrical equipment, and machinery from China.

Now, the fact this is only a 10 percent increase should limit the damage here, but, remember, these are import taxes. They're paid by U.S. companies when they bring stuff in from China, and then they can choose to pass along some of the cost to consumers or to eat the cost, but that would hurt their profit.

I just talked to the president of a -- of a company that makes appliances, and they bring those appliances in from China. And he told me that, you know what, they're going to try to eat some of the costs, but they're also going to have to pass along some of the cost of the tariffs to consumers in the form of higher prices.

And he told me what's killing him is the uncertainty right now. He said being in the dark is very frustrating. We feel like we have been stabbed in the back by these tariffs, because they're just going to hurt the company.

And, remember, when you think about higher prices for consumers from these tariffs, it's really going to hit the people who can afford it the least. The Peterson Institute looked at how much each consumer is going to get hit here in terms of income bracket, and they found that the people on the low end of the income spectrum, they're going to be the ones who are going to feel it the most.

You see that right there. Almost 3 percent of the income of the bottom 20 percent of earners, that's what the cost is from the tariffs on both Canada, Mexico, the ones that are due in a month, and the tariffs that were just imposed on China. And so that's another thing we have to look at here, because, obviously, people are feeling the pain from higher prices -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Matt Egan, thank you so much for that update.

Still ahead this hour on CNN NEWS CENTRAL, new reporting that President Trump plans to dismantle the Department of Education. The potential impact it could have on schools across the country.

Plus, the White House confirms the first flight carrying undocumented migrants from the U.S. to Guantanamo Bay is currently under way, despite questions about whether it's even legal.

We will discuss in just moments.

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[13:19:15]

KEILAR: New developments now.

As President Donald Trump works fast to reshape federal government, sources telling CNN his administration has begun drafting an executive order that would kick-start the process of eliminating the Department of Education. We know dozens of employees of the agency are already on administrative leave.

CNN's Rene Marsh with us now on this story.

We're standing by as the president is set to sign some new executive orders here in the next hour. In the meantime, what are you learning about his plan when it comes to the Department of Education?

RENE MARSH, CNN GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Right.

So we have this reporting that this executive order would come in two parts. The first part would be directing the education secretary to devise a plan to diminish this agency through executive order. And the second phase of his plan would push for Congress to pass legislation to end the Department of Education.

[13:20:04]

This is something that he talked about a lot on the campaign trail, wanting to get rid of the Department of Education. Clearly, from this executive order, he understands he cannot do that unilaterally, so, again, pushing for Congress to pass that legislation.

KEILAR: And there are, as I mentioned, dozens of Department of Ed employees who are on leave. Can you tell us a little bit about that? What's the agency saying? Why are they on leave?

MARSH: Yes, and I have spent a lot of time talking to a lot of these employees.

And these are civil servants who top of -- the top thing that they have said to me is they love their jobs. Many of them said they were willing to work with this administration because that's what civil servants do. But now they find themselves unclear of what their financial future will be and their employment future will be.

So we're talking about at least 75 employees at the Department of Education placed on paid administrative leave. But that's a lowball number because this is from the union president and she only has visibility on her union members with the agency who have been impacted.

Many of them learned about this via e-mail. And then their work accounts were suspended. They have been told that they're going to be placed on paid administrative leave indefinitely. But the union is saying a lot of these positions are people who actually did not work on DEI.

When they talked amongst themselves, the common denominator that they found was that many of them had attended a two-day DEI training in 2019, which was under the first Trump administration, and they did a refresher course under the Biden administration. So they believe that's why they got targeted. But they say their day-to-day job duties have nothing to do with DEI.

KEILAR: That is very interesting.

Rene Marsh, thank you -- Boris.

SANCHEZ: Meantime, federal workers are facing a Thursday deadline to resign if they want to accept a buyout offer from the Trump administration. If they accept, they would receive severance through September 30. This move has been criticized by federal workers unions, who are cautioning members that the offer does not guarantee they would actually receive those benefits.

And now attorneys general from 12 states are urging workers to stay on the job. California Attorney General Rob Bonta writing that: "The Trump administration's so-called buyout offer is a pointed attack aimed at dismantling our federal work force and sowing chaos for Americans that rely on a functioning government."

Joining us now is one of those attorneys general who issued a similar warning, the A.G. of Connecticut, William Tong.

Sir, thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us.

Your office says there are more than 5,000 federal workers living in Connecticut. How many of them do you expect will take this buyout?

WILLIAM TONG, CONNECTICUT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Yes, thanks for having me, Boris.

Not clear yet, although I'm hearing as many as 20,000 employees are readying to take this buyout. And to me, it feels like something like a scam. It has all the hallmarks of a scam.

When I try to help people in Connecticut in how to protect themselves from scams, I say watch out for offers that have little details, scant details, and watch out for scams that have time pressure, right? You have to take it now or you lose it.

And that's why we're telling people across Connecticut, if you're a federal employee, be careful, because there's, as far as we can tell, no authority for this action, no guarantee that you will get paid through September 30, no guarantee that this is real.

SANCHEZ: I want to get your response to a spokesperson at the Office of Personnel Management who's argued that these group of attorneys general warning workers not to take the buyout, which you are part of, is spreading misinformation and using workers as pawns.

They argue that this is a generous opportunity. I see you shaking your head. What do you say in response?

TONG: Yes, this is an attack on not just the federal work force, but on Connecticut.

Look, we rely on people in the Social Security Administration. We just had a segment before on CNN about the Department of Education. What about special education? What about student loans? What about clean air, clean water and the EPA? Connecticut relies on these workers, not just the 5,000 in Connecticut, but we rely on these workers to keep us safe, to keep our children safe and educated, to keep the lights on, to keep the heat going.

I know that national security and law enforcement officials are excepted from this buyout program, but what about the 6,000 people that Kash Patel wants to street immediately? This is very dangerous for Connecticut and for states across the country.

SANCHEZ: I do wonder, if their argument is that they want to eliminate waste and make the federal government more efficient, whether you believe that is just a front. Is it disingenuous? Do you think that they have ulterior motives? [13:25:05]

TONG: Yes, not only is it disingenuous, but Vivek Ramaswamy, before he was ejected from this effort, said that they wanted to be compassionate and be there for workers.

But listen to Russell Vought, who's the president's nominee for the Office of Management and Budget. He said that they want to traumatize workers, make it so unpleasant, make it so traumatic that they don't want to go to work. And so there's a much more dark and nefarious enterprise going on here, where they want to push people out of federal service by traumatizing them and scaring them.

SANCHEZ: Do you plan to file a lawsuit on behalf of these workers?

TONG: We're considering all of our options right now. State attorneys general are very concerned about their effect, this effect, the effect of these potential, not just buyouts, but there's no guarantee that these workers won't get laid off, and the way that it impacts services here in Connecticut and prejudices Connecticut families in our states.

SANCHEZ: As you're considering it, what would lead you to going ahead and filing? What would be the tipping point?

TONG: So, of course, we're focused now on collecting information. And there's not a lot of information about this program. We're collecting information about how these buyouts might impact us here in Connecticut.

As you know, we moved immediately on birthright citizenship. We sued last Monday. We got a temporary restraining order on Thursday. On the comported federal freeze on funding, we heard about that, I think, on Monday night. We took action Tuesday, and got a temporary restraining order.

So we're ready to act, and we have been successful so far in blocking this administration in its most draconian moves. So, again, all of this is on the table. And we're looking at every possible option to protect workers and to protect Connecticut and our states.

SANCHEZ: Connecticut Attorney General William Tong, thanks so much for sharing your perspective. Appreciate you.

TONG: Thank you, Boris.

SANCHEZ: Still ahead: One of President Trump's most controversial Cabinet picks, RFK Jr., clears a major hurdle, while his choice for director of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, appears poised to do the same this afternoon.

We have the latest from Capitol Hill. Stay with CNN.

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