Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

President Trump Proposes U.S. Take Over Gaza and Remove Nearly 2 Million Palestinian Residents During Press Conference with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu; President Trump Proposes U.S. Rebuild Gaza after Hamas-Israel War; Former Twitter Employees Speak Out on Musk's Business Tactics; All USAID Employees to be Put on Leave Friday, with a Few Exception. Aired 8-8:30a ET.

Aired February 05, 2025 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

DR. PAUL OFFIT, MEMBER, FDA VACCINE ADVISORY COMMITTEE: Processed food and eating better and trying to increase incidents of obesity like type 2 diabetes. Great idea. There are a lot of people in this country that can do that. But with this man, you're getting the additional baggage of the fact that he is a virulent anti-vaccine activist who means it, he means it. And you're going to see -- you're going to see how much he means that soon.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Dr. Paul Offit, thank you so much for coming in.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: He is moving the goalposts of crazy. New reaction this morning from advisers, lawmakers, and nations after President Trump said the U.S. will, quote, "take over Gaza."

Quote, "If I go back, they will kill me." A new CNN report as President Trump's mass deportation plans take hold.

And this morning, former Twitter employees are offering advice to federal workers on how to deal with an Elon Musk takeover.

I'm John Berman with Sara Sidner and Kate Bolduan. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

All right, right there, you're seeing live pictures from the White House, and also from Gaza. The geopolitics of one has been completely upended by the other. President Trump proposing U.S. ownership of Gaza with U.S. troops if necessary, and the removal of 2 million Palestinians.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: We'll do what is necessary. If it's necessary, we'll do that. We're going to take over that piece and we're going to develop it.

I do see a long-term ownership position.

We have an opportunity to do something that could be phenomenal. And I don't want to be cute, I don't want to be a wise guy, but the Riviera of the Middle East, this could be something that could be so -- this could be so magnificent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: In the last few hours, there has been condemnation from nations around the world that, in theory, would need to support this move. We could hear again shortly from the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who will meet with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. We're already hearing from some Republican senators questioning the idea. Senator Thom Tillis told "Politico", "There's probably a couple of kinks in that slinky." And Senator Josh Hawley says, quote, "I don't know that I think it's the best use of U.S. resources to spend a bunch of money in Gaza. I think maybe I'd prefer that to be spent in the United States first."

Let's get right to CNN's Alayna Treene at the White House, where I imagine there is some fallout this morning, or at least people behind you watching the reaction very closely.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: I mean, absolutely, John. What the president said yesterday was truly remarkable and stunning to hear, especially during a press conference. One thing that struck me, though, was that the president seemed to be building toward this sentiment all day, even before Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu arrived at the White House yesterday afternoon.

Now, I do want to just focus again on what the president said. He said that he believes that the United States could take over Gaza. He said we'll own it. He also would not rule out using U.S. troops to do so. Again, just very remarkable comments. And again, as well, this is not something offhanded, and not offhanded rhetoric, I should say, that the president is using. We know that in the past he has referred to the Gaza Strip as prime real estate that could be used well in the right hands. But this is very much going further than that.

And of course, one, it's breaking with precedent and what we've heard from several U.S. presidents, say, for generations now. But it could also completely threaten the delicate deal we know that is being worked out with the Trump administration and those between Israel and Hamas and the ceasefire deal, this very careful, delicate ceasefire deal that they are trying to maintain.

Now, another big question, of course, is what would happen to the men, women, and children around, nearly 2 million people who currently live in Gaza. Where would they go? We know that the president in the past has said that he believes that Egypt and Jordan, neighboring countries, should accept them. But it's also something we've heard both leaders of this country argue is not on the table, something they have rejected. The president, however, argued he believes it is still on the table. Listen to what he said yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENT: It'll be wonderful for the people, Palestinians, Palestinians, mostly we're talking about. And I have a feeling that despite them saying no, I have a feeling that the king in Jordan and that the general president, but that the general in Egypt will open their hearts and will give us the kind of land that we need to get this done. And people can live in harmony and in peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: John, he said he believes that the leaders of Egypt and Jordan will open their hearts.

[08:05:01]

It's very unclear what exactly that means, but of course, I think a key question is whether or not the president believes that he could essentially force these countries into accepting people who are displaced in Gaza.

And the other thing, of course, as well I would note is the king of Jordan is coming to the White House next week. So this will certainly be a very crucial part of that conversation. But one thing that was clear is we did not hear any real details on how this would be possible, how the United States could take this over. But it was very clear, and it's clear in my conversations with White House officials, that the president is very serious about this.

Now, I do also just want to point your attention to some of that reaction that you were referencing. We heard from Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, trying to defend Donald Trump on this. This is what he posted overnight. He said "Gaza must be free from Hamas. As POTUS shared today, the United States stands ready to lead and make Gaza beautiful again. Our pursuit is one of lasting peace in the region for all people."

So we'll certainly be getting, of course, more reaction. And as you mentioned, we are going to continue to see Prime Minister Netanyahu today in Washington. He's meeting with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and has more meetings later this week. John?

BERMAN: We'll be watching all of that very closely. Alayna Treene at the White House, thank you very much. Sara?

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, to continue the conversation, joining us now is CNN political and national security analyst David Sanger. David, thank you so much for joining us.

Look, this president is the person who said that the U.S. must get out of forever wars. He is now proposing sending American troops to Gaza, forcing out millions of Palestinians, and rebuilding it to own it, to have a stake in it. Is this complete fantasy?

DAVID E. SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Sara, it's certainly one of the most unusual proposals we have heard, even from the mouth of Donald Trump. It's not that the idea of moving Palestinians out of Gaza is an entirely new one. During the past year- and-a-half of war, or a year-and-a-quarter of war, there were questions about whether or not the gates could be opened so that people who wanted to go into Egypt could, and that there would be some kind of temporary refugee camp set up.

But to the Palestinians living in Gaza, the key question is, can you then return? Or is this just a mechanism for Israel to force the Palestinians out of Gaza and into a place where they don't have a homeland, that the state that would be part of a two-state solution?

So what we heard from President Trump was a vision for a glorious Gaza with hotels and seaside looks, and it will be beautiful. And it was a developer's view of what you could do with a seaside piece of land. And we heard nothing about whether the Palestinians would have the right to return. He simply said it would be a land open to all people, including Palestinians. Well, that's a very different thing from having a separate Palestinian state.

SIDNER: Yes, I do want to ask you about this. Gaza is destroyed. We've been looking at the pictures. Obviously, 60 percent of buildings destroyed, 90 percent of the population displaced, tens of thousands of Palestinians dead. Hostages are still being held by Hamas. And Trump is talking about Gaza as a piece of real estate, as you put it, to be owned and used by the United States. I mean, how is this going to affect the United States and how it deals with, for example, Israel's neighbors like Jordan, like Egypt, who have unequivocally said no to having 2 million Palestinians coming in in refugee status?

SANGER: Well, first, in Jordan's case, there are already millions of Palestinians there. And the Jordanians are concerned that it would destabilize their society. President Sisi has the same concern, obviously, about Egypt. We're going to see King Abdullah in Washington next week. And he's really on the spot now.

The usual process for all of this, Sara, would be you work through the different agencies of government, the National Security Council, you come up with a proposal for the president, you red team it to make sure that you understand what its implications could be. You quietly sell it to the allies so that not everybody jumps up and down and says no when it first happens. There was none of that. This seemed to evolve, as you heard before, from the morning to the afternoon. It just sort of came out of the president's head and his mouth.

[08:10:00]

And then, of course, you saw Prime Minister Netanyahu sitting there smiling, understandably so, because he's got a right wing that wants to take over all of Gaza and make sure that it is, in fact, once again, is full Israeli territory. If he can't get that, having it as American territory probably seemed like a pretty good option. And certainly, it would be a 15-year building project.

The other remarkable part of this is that at the very moment that we're dismantling the USAID program around the world, in part because it spends billions of dollars, we've got this project just in Gaza whose price tag, I suspect, would be tens of billions of dollars. SIDNER: Yes. And that is -- there are so many questions that the

American people would have about spending millions, tens of millions of dollars in a country that the United States is now trying to, according to Trump, own. There are so many, so many questions. And there's also the question about security and whether this causes more destabilization in the region.

David Sanger, thank you so much. I really appreciate you walking us through that this morning. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Here's a quote for you. It's like a bull in a China shop. Warnings from former Twitter employees to federal employees now about Elon Musk's DOGE agenda. What his tear it all down approach feels like from the people who know it.

And USAID may be in the middle of that very process, bull in a China shop approach, right now. The newest orders that have thousands of government workers, as Sara and David were just talking about, packing up.

And heavy rain in southern California sparking new flooding fears and fears of mudslides in the very same places still recovering from those devastating wildfires.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:30]

BOLDUAN: So, Elon Musk has essentially been a bull in the government's China shop, embodying the shock and awe approach that Donald Trump envisioned as he was beginning his second term.

Musk turning that approach now into a purge of the federal workforce, closing programs, locking out employees from their offices, shutting down websites, locking up e-mail accounts.

That's what federal workers are now facing. And there's a group of people who can relate, the former employees of Twitter after Elon Musk bought the company in 2022.

CNN's Clare Duffy is here with much more on this, and you spoke with some of these former employees. What are they telling you?

CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, many of these former Twitter employees are having deja vu right now watching what is happening. You mentioned that just the way that Musk has come in and so quickly tried to cut costs, cut entire programs.

Remember that when he took over Twitter, within hours, he had fired the executive leadership team. Within days, he had fired 50 percent of the company. Thousands of employees --

BOLDUAN: I think people would wake up and their key cards wouldn't work, right?

DUFFY: Exactly, yes, they were shut out of e-mail addresses, and a former Twitter employee said that essentially, Musk has this algorithm for change where his motto, his MO is to question every requirement, assume that every requirement that anybody ever gives you is dumb.

Question it, eliminate it wherever possible, and basically ask, do we even need this thing? Should we? Should we have it to begin with? -- and start eliminating from there.

We're now hearing former Twitter employees offering advice to federal government workers, both publicly and quietly, including things like how to communicate securely through platforms like Signal, and then more personal advice about how to navigate this kind of upheaval.

One former principal software engineer at Twitter posted on X don't comply without question. Don't fold over in advance. Find small routines that anchor you and make you feel in control, even just for a few minutes every day.

So, they're really empathizing with what federal government employees are going through now.

I also spoke with Shannon Liss-Riordan, who is the former -- who's the attorney who's represented a lot of these former Twitter employees in taking legal action against the company and she said she's already getting questions from federal government workers about whether they could, can or should take this buyout package and whether they can count on the money.

And she said there are big questions about whether they can because this money hasn't necessarily been approved by Congress to pay these folks out through September.

So she said the advice that she's giving people is basically, you need to decide what's in your best interests, and there's no way to predict exactly how this is going to come out.

But she said she's already expecting that there will be lawsuits from these federal government workers. But the question is, the tricky thing is, it's harder to sue the government than it is to sue a private company.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely, and also, even given her advice, it's hard to -- it seems it might be hard to know even what is in your best interest.

DUFFY: She basically said there's no good options here.

BOLDUAN: Oh, jeez, Clare, very interesting perspective from people who would know.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it -- John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: "I would be risking my life." A new CNN report as immigrants fear being sent back to their native countries.

And, breaking overnight, police are searching for a man suspected in a deadly mass shooting at a warehouse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:23:46]

BERMAN: New this morning, "Thank you for your service." That is the last line on the USAID website at this moment, and it's a directive sent out to thousands of staff told they will be on leave as of Friday.

With us now, Dr. Atul Gawande, former head of Global Health for USAID.

Doctor, thank you so much for being with us. So, what happens on Friday? Where will these losses, how will these losses be felt?

DR. ATUL GAWANDE, FORMER HEAD OF GLOBAL HEALTH, USAID: You have to understand, you cannot pause an airplane in mid-flight and fire the crew, but this oligarch with unchecked power is doing that to the entirety of our foreign assistance worldwide, our lifesaving foreign assistance worldwide. We are damaging US capacity, US standing, and also harming lives.

These are programs that range from eradicating polio to fighting outbreaks that are occurring right now. Bird flu monitoring is being shut down, it's already shut down. It's already closed.

And so, this is the demolition -- unconstitutional demolition of a critical agency and it is going to cost lives.

[08:25:10]

BERMAN: How will it impact for instance, fighting malaria?

GAWANDE: The entire malaria team is wiped out, including some of the top world experts in malaria.

Programs involving thousands of people around the world distributing millions of bed nets, providing for children who -- it's one of the top killers of children in areas that have malaria around the world, and those treatments and diagnostics gone, and the people who take care of them laid off, thousands of people around the world who are terminated.

It is -- how does that make us stronger? How does that make us safer? We had a return of malaria to the United States just this past summer.

BERMAN: So Elon Musk says that USAID is not an apple with a worm. He says it's a ball of worms. A criminal organization, he says. So, what would you say to Elon Musk?

GAWANDE: It is -- I don't know if its ignorance or indifference. I fear it is both.

This is an agency founded by John F. Kennedy in 1961 as our vehicle for providing the hearts and minds -- winning hearts and minds around the world.

It is our largest civilian operational capacity for extending abroad. These are the people who eradicated smallpox already from the world. We're able to take on India and stop famine there and then help India become an exporter and a partner to the United States.

This is so far from the truth to call these people worms, describe it as a rogue criminal operation. They're often using words to describe their own activities. It's a projection rather than the reality of what we have and the damage of removing overnight this entire capacity.

The systems of checks and balances have failed and Congress has abrogated and abdicated its responsibilities.

BERMAN: You've seen the list of specific programs that Elon Musk and his allies and some Republicans in Congress say that USAID is funding that they feel is out of bounds. It should not be funded. What do you say to those?

GAWANDE: Look, there is a debate over whether there should be diversity programs, whether HIV clinics should treat transgender people who have HIV. Like this is an argument we can have over a small component of this budget, but you don't destroy the entire organization.

Policy changes from administration to administration and we can look at the different programs. But we're talking about a -- in Global Health, for example, its half the budget of my hospital where I practice surgery, and it is reaching hundreds of millions of people with work being done through Catholic relief services --Save the Children. These are not criminal enterprises. These are not rogue operations. These are vital capabilities for the United States.

BERMAN: I have to let you go, doctor. But based on these changes, when they go into effect Friday as a result, do you think people will die?

GAWANDE: People already are. The pause is two weeks old. This is now the firing of the crew and the loss of the entire capacity for the United States.

China and Russia are celebrating. Governments, I know I've spoken to Ministers of Health, they are calling them asking China, can you backstop these programs that America is walking away from? Can you make sure our people don't die from malaria? Can you make sure that 20 million people with HIV, who now, as of last week, stopped being able to get medication that is keeping them alive, that this can be solved.

They've been trying for this -- undermining the US in this way for decades and Elon Musk is making it happen now.

BERMAN: Dr. Atul Gawande, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very much -- Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, speaking of Elon Musk, he and DOGE has access to your private information is now the target of a lawsuit. We will talk to the person bringing it.

And putting the brakes on a mega car merger, how China may detour this huge deal.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:30:00]