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Judge Pauses Trump's "Buyout" Offer to Federal Workers; Trump and Musk Move Rapidly to Downsize Government; Rep. Buddy Carter (R-GA) Discusses About Trump's Buyout Offer to Federal Workers; DOGE to Keep Limited Access to Treasury Payments System; Large Swathes of USAID Workforce to be Put on Leave Friday Night. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired February 06, 2025 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[15:01:10]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: A Deadline Delay: A federal judge pausing the midnight deadline for millions of U.S. government workers to take a so-called buyout from Elon Musk and President Trump, but many workers fear that if they don't take it, they might lose their jobs anyway.

Plus, the Israeli prime minister calling it a, quote, "remarkable idea," hailing Trump's proposal to, quote, "own and develop Gaza." This, as Trump clarifies his comments on potentially needing the assistance of U.S. troops.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And a newer strain of bird flu has now been detected in dairy cows in Nevada. Why experts fear it could mark a turning point for the spread of the virus.

We're following these major developing stories and many more all coming in right here to CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

SANCHEZ: Thanks so much for sharing part of your afternoon with us. I'm Boris Sanchez alongside Brianna Keilar in the nation's capital. A key part of President Donald Trump's strategy to drastically cut down the federal workforce is now officially on hold. A federal judge pausing tonight's deadline for federal employees to accept the administration's so-called buyout offer with a new hearing scheduled for Monday.

KEILAR: Till Monday, and the White House says at least 50,000 people, about two and a half percent of the federal workforce, have already accepted the offer. CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live for us at the White House.

Is the administration responding to this news yet, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, we are just getting the first response from the White House on this, of course. They have essentially been selling this for the last week or so as a good deal for federal employees trying to get them to sign up for this deferred resignation program. Effectively a buyout offer but not a traditional one like we see in private companies. But the White House's a bit of a perhaps sarcastic response. This is what we're getting from White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt who said a few minutes ago this: "We are grateful to the Judge for extending the deadline so more federal workers who refuse to show up to the office can take the administration up on this very generous, once-in-a-lifetime offer."

So, expressing gratitude to that Massachusetts federal judge who put this on hold saying that there needed to be oral arguments on this on Monday.

The bottom line to all of this is there is so much confusion and skepticism throughout the federal government about this buyout program, because it happened in a very non-traditional way. It started, of course, with those emails that sounded very Elon Musk-like which, of course, they were devised to sound like that. He's been playing a huge role in this - in his Department of Government and Efficiency, but there have been questions of - from labor unions for the federal workforce if these actually were valid agreements.

So, that's why these three labor unions have filed suits to the judge now putting on a hold. The White House though saying it gives people more time to take up this offer. But, again, not many people have only 2 percent or so of the federal workforce.

KEILAR: Yes, in the scheme of things, it's not that much, Jeff. And then, minutes from now, President Trump is expected to be signing these executive orders as he does in so many days targeting in this case the International Criminal Court and also, quote, "anti-Christian bias within the federal government." Can you tell us more about that?

ZELENY: Yes, we are learning that the President will be signing executive orders perhaps he will open this up to the press as he's done several days since taking office once again. But he is going to - he sort of foreshadowed this earlier today at the National Prayer Breakfast when he spoke particularly urging his Attorney General to instruct her agency to essentially root out anti-Christian bias. This is what he said this morning.

[15:05:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The mission of this task force will be to immediately halt all forms of anti-Christian targeting and discrimination within the federal government, including at the DOJ which was absolutely terrible. The IRS, the FBI, terrible, and other agencies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, that is certainly something that many people in his base like to hear the idea of rooting out what the President describes as anti-Christian bias. And, Brianna, one other one we're told is sanctioning the International Criminal Court for how it has treated the U.S. and Israel in the Middle East, Brianna. KEILAR: All right, Jeff Zeleny live for us at the White House, thank you. And even though a judge did pause tonight's buyout offer deadline for federal workers, some 2 million of them still face uncertainty as the Trump administration pushes ahead with these plans for massive cuts.

With us now is Rob Shriver. He's the former acting director of the Office of Personnel Management which is the human resources department for the U.S. government. He's now managing director for Democracy Forward's Civil Service Strong initiative.

And, Rob, I first just want to get your reaction to the breaking news that the judge has put this deadline on hold and this buyout may be in question.

ROB SHRIVER, FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT: I think that, Brianna, that's a win for all federal employees. We have seen information coming out in dribs and drabs throughout the past week. Most recently, very alarmingly the administration seems to have opened up the offer to National Security personnel. I think all of us as American need to be asking what happens if large numbers of federal employees take this offer.

KEILAR: What do you worry could happen?

SHRIVER: What I worry could happen is fundamental governmental functions could suffer. What happens for example if a USDA office in Iowa, if all the employees take it there, who's going to serve those farmers? What happens if we lose meat inspectors? What can we say about the hamburger meat that shows up in our grocery stores? These are the impacts that federal employees have on the American people every day.

KEILAR: So, OPM sent out a follow-up memo this past Tuesday that says effectively if the Trump administration backtracks on the buyout, quote, "an employee would be entitled to request a rescission of his or her resignation." But when you look at a sample buyout agreement it states that only an agency head has the discretion to rescind the agreement, it's not subject to review in any forum and an employee, quote, "forever waives and will not pursue through any judiciary administrative or other process any action related to the offer."

How problematic is it that you have this clarification memo from OPM contradicting the fine print on a sample buyout?

SHRIVER: It's incredibly problematic and you have zeroed in on the key language. They are attempting to convince federal employees to take this deal because they have been intimidating them and tormenting them for the first three weeks of the administration to make their lives as miserable as possible. Then, they want them to sign this deal, abandon their jobs and give up any rights that they may have going forward, including the right to enforce this very agreement.

KEILAR: This boils down, if you take it to a good faith place, a debate over the role of government how big government should be. But when you outline individual jobs, I mean, inspectors at the USDA, folks who are essential to farmers in Iowa, those are roles that probably most Americans would say, yes I think those are jobs that should be proceeding here. What do you make of this caricature of federal employees that is out there that they're just like these lazy freeloading Washington bureaucrats when really nine out of 10 of them aren't in Washington and they're doing a lot of jobs like the ones you've outlined.

SHRIVER: It's very sad. And you know, Brianna, this is right out of the Project 2025's playbook. This is what they said they were going to do. They are now doing it. Democracy Forward, my organization was ready to go and that's why we have been bringing these lawsuits.

But I think it's really important and in addition to stopping him in court, which by the way every federal judge that has looked at these issues no matter which party the President was, who appointed them, has ruled against the administration. We need to explain those facts to the American people about the impact on their daily lives.

KEILAR: There is reporting that Musk's team - I'm sure you've seen it. They gained access to OPM personnel data and computer systems. You have a better sense of what that means than most people, what kind of data could that be?

SHRIVER: It's highly sensitive data, there's personnel - personally identifiable information, there's financial data, there's personal health information. All of these rules that the federal government has in place are to protect that data from a cybersecurity posture and make sure that it's not vulnerable to attack. When you evade those rules, you open up all of that sensitive data to breaches.

KEILAR: Rob Shriver, thank you so much for your insights. We appreciate it.

SHRIVER: Thank you.

KEILAR: Boris?

[15:10:00]

SANCHEZ: For more on the Trump administration's effort to transform the federal government I'm joined by Georgia Republican congressman, Buddy Carter. He's a member of the House Budget Committee and the newly formed DOGE Caucus.

Congressman, thanks so much for being with us this afternoon.

I want to start where we just left the conversation with the former acting director of OPM, Rob Shriver. He talks about fundamental government functions potentially being hampered by federal workers taking these buyouts. Do you share some of those concerns?

REP. BUDDY CARTER (R-GA): No, I don't share those concerns. Look, 5 percent or five - excuse me, five years out of COVID and we only have 6 percent of American workers have - federal workers going back into the office full-time? That's ridiculous. And look, if they don't want to go back to the office, then they need to find another job. That's as simple as it is. And this is what President Trump is trying to say. He's offering them a very generous package, by the way. You know, eight months? I mean, who wouldn't take that if you're interested - if you're not interested in working, take eight months and go find something else.

And you know, all this surprise, oh, I can't believe he's doing this, he told you he was going to do this. The American people voted overwhelmingly for him to do this.

SANCHEZ: I do wonder Congressman how you connect the dots between having federal workers who have been working remotely because of COVID coming back to the office with DOGE associates taking control or at least having access to some of the sensitive payment systems of the Treasury for example and some of these OPM systems, how do - how are those two things related?

CARTER: Look, the DOGE employees don't have access to sensitive information. They have read-only access, preliminary access and they're all just looking for inefficiencies. They don't have your access to your personal information. Only federal employees have that in the Treasury, so that's not something we should be concerned about. They don't have that access and we've been getting calls in the office from people, oh, my god, Elon Musk have got my information.

No, he doesn't have your information. They're just looking for inefficiencies.

SANCHEZ: I do wonder whether the DOGE Caucus is conducting oversight on Musk and his associates. And if you could distinguish for us what you mean by they don't have access versus they have read-only access.

CARTER: Well, I can distinguish it by saying they don't have access to your personal information. And you only have that if you're a federal employee and you have clearance with that. But the DOGE employees don't have that access, so people shouldn't be concerned about that. And yes, at the DOGE Caucus, we do have control over this. And, you know, that's the reason the DOGE Caucus exists, because look, you know, the DOGE employees really don't have any authority. But when they need something, they identify something, it'll be up to us in the DOGE Caucus to act on it and to legislate on it.

SANCHEZ: You have no concerns about this sort of extra governmental entity that wasn't created by Congress. It's supposed to be an advisory council. A sort of advisory role. You have no concerns about them having access to these systems? I mean, you say that they don't have access, but they have read-only access. I wish that that would be clarified somehow. What exactly does that mean?

CARTER: Well, what it means is that they can't go and find your personal information. They can look for inefficiencies. And all of us have done this through looking through information before on the computer. And we understand what the difference is between read-only and between having access to personal information. Let me assure you that that's not what's happening right now. I assure the American people that's not what's happening.

Yes, they are looking for inefficiencies as they were charged to do and we expect for them to do that. And when they find them, we expect for them to bring it to the DOGE Caucus, let us act on it legislatively.

SANCHEZ: To that point, it appears that some DOGE associates sought to shut off U.S. aid payments using the Treasury's payment system. Those are funds that had already been dispersed by Congress, appropriated by Congress. So, does DOGE's authority supersede your own and your colleagues'?

CARTER: No, it does not. Of course, it doesn't. Look, the aid that was - the U.S. aid that was cut off should have been cut off. I mean, $15 million for condoms for the Taliban? And, you know ...

SANCHEZ: Sir, whoa, whoa, whoa - 15 million?

CARTER: ... $47,000 to a transgender opera in Colombia?

SANCHEZ: Fifteen million dollars for condoms for the Taliban?

CARTER: That's what they discovered. I mean, you know, that's the kind of things ...

SANCHEZ: Like, are you conflating things? Are you - is this ...

CARTER: ... that we're trying to ...

SANCHEZ: ... are you talking about the $50 million dollars that was supposedly meant for condoms in Gaza? Are you conflating those two things, sir?

CARTER: I am not. I am not. This is the type of thing that they're finding.

[15:15:01]

And this kind of thing we want them to find. There is inefficiency.

When you have a government as big and bloated as we have, you're going to find inefficiencies like this and that's why we need DOGE, that's why we need to identify these inefficiencies.

Look, I was born at night, but it wasn't last night. Don't try to pull this over me, okay? And that's what we're talking about here.

SANCHEZ: I will look into that supposed 10 million dollars for condoms for the Taliban. It sounds a lot like the false claim that we've heard about 50 million for Gaza that was way incorrect. It actually was a hundred million the last time I heard President Trump say it.

I do wonder generally, though, whether you're comfortable with someone that Americans did not elect who has direct business ties not only to the U.S. government, but also Chinese business and indirectly the Chinese Communist Party, having this much influence and reach into sensitive government systems and decisions that are made about money that has been allocated by Congress. Are you comfortable with that?

CARTER: I'm - what I'm comfortable with is what DOGE is charged to be doing and that is looking for inefficiencies within our government system, looking for waste, fraud, abuse, seeing where we can make government more efficient, seeing where we can have more than 6 percent of the federal employees coming to the office full-time, seeing where we got empty buildings sitting here in Washington, D.C. with nobody in them.

Look, we have - it is time - you and I are paying for this. We - you pay your taxes, I pay my taxes. The American taxpayers are the ones paying for this. We deserve an answer.

SANCHEZ: I understand that. I just want to correct something you said, I was just handed a fact-check these are previous OMB statistics that say that 54 percent of federal workers don't actually telework at all. You said 6 percent of federal workers actually go into the office. Nevertheless, I understand what you're getting at and eliminating government waste and making the government more efficient, I think that is widely supported. But I wonder if how it's being put into practice by having the richest man in the world who, again, has these government contracts that bring up questions about conflict of interest who has business with China, which also brings up questions of conflict of interest.

Are you okay with essentially sitting in the passenger seat as Elon Musk takes the steering wheel of the U.S. government?

CARTER: What we have is a businessman who understands business. So, what we have is a president who understands business, who is going to run this this government like a business and it needs to be run like a business. We need to have accountability. We need to have responsibility. The American taxpayers deserve that and that's what this president is trying to bring.

He campaigned on this, the American people elected him overwhelmingly on these things that he said he was going to do. Now, he's doing them, everybody's throwing their arms up and say, I can't believe he's doing this. He told you he was going to do this. Now say what you will about Donald Trump, but when he tells you he's going to do something he does it.

SANCHEZ: Congressman, I got to tell you, $50 million for condoms to the Taliban, the U.S. government apparently procures condoms at about three cents each one that's a lot of condoms. Are you standing by that, sir? We're going to fact-check it. We're going to have you back on and ask you about it.

CARTER: That's fine.

SANCHEZ: All right, I look forward to that conversation. Representative Buddy Carter, thank you so much.

CARTER: Okay. Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Still ahead, President Trump's rapid dismantling of USAID leaves workers around the world concerned for their safety and their futures. How Americans overseas now feel that they are in limbo.

Plus, Trump and Netanyahu say that no U.S. troops needed to carry out - are needed to carry out Trump's plans for Gaza. What the two are now saying about the plan to take over.

And dairy cows and their milk have now tested positive for a second strain of the bird flu virus. That same strain has been associated with some severe infections in people. We're going to talk to a doctor about concerns. Stay with CNN NEW CENTRAL. We're back in just moments.

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[15:23:15]

SANCHEZ: It is now the final hours for USAID employees, all of the agency's overseas missions have been ordered to shut down and nearly all staff has been recalled. Midnight tomorrow is their deadline.

KEILAR: President Trump and his billionaire ally, Elon Musk, have prioritized dismantling the agency that provides a critical lifeline to more than 100 countries or as Musk put it feeding it into the wood chipper. The President, Musk and some Republicans in Congress say the foreign assistance program is a waste and advances liberal social programs.

Joining us now is the former USAID Deputy Assistant Administrator Bama Athreya.

And thank you so much for being with us, because as of tomorrow night all of these direct hire personnel with USAID are going to be placed on administrative leave and it's not as simple, right, as just going back to your house in Ohio or Washington, it really just isn't. What's the immediate impact of pulling all those people?

BAMA ATHREYA, FORMER USAID DEPUTY ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR: It's really devastating for people and it's devastating for the work we do worldwide. For the people, it's incredibly irregular people that work for USAID don't just travel overseas, they live there. They have homes there. They have families. They have children who are in school. They have pets and it was highly unusual that the way in which they found out that they were being ordered to come home, you know, to come back to the United States, recalled, was that the website for USAID which had previously been taken down a few days earlier suddenly one page went back up and that page said everyone would be put on administrative leave.

SANCHEZ: I have two questions for you and they're kind of tied together.

[15:25:00]

Secretary of State Marco Rubio made the case the other day that some of the money that was being spent through USAID was contradictory to U.S. foreign policy. You've heard accusations from Donald Trump and others that the agency is corrupt. What's your response to that? ATHREYA: Well, we have had so much good work over the years that is directly in line with the priorities that Secretary Rubio has stated, making America safer, stronger and more prosperous. And we've documented that over the years. What's interesting about what's happened is that we have usually made that very clear to Congress, our money doesn't just come to us and AID decide what to do with it, no not at all.

Every dollar that comes to USAID is directed by Congress. Congress sets the priorities. They tell us how much to spend on which of those priorities and we implement that directive from Congress. We also make reams of data available to Congress and to the US public because everyone deserves to know how their taxpayer dollars are spent.

So, up until last week, we could show geographically and by program by area or topic what every dollar of U.S. assistance was spent on. All of this has been well known for such a long time that it's really very surprising to most of our staff to find out that despite the fact that a Republican-led Congress directed this money to be spent in the way it was being spent up until last week ...

SANCHEZ: Sure.

ATHREYA: ... that this is now being seen as not in line with our priorities.

SANCHEZ: To that point, my follow-up was if you could fact-check what we just heard from Congressman Buddy Carter of Georgia who repeated this claim - actually, it's the first time I had heard it, but it's a similar refrain to what we've heard about contraceptives being sent to the Middle East that some $10 million were spent on condoms directed to the Taliban.

ATHREYA: We don't support the Taliban in Afghanistan, so that strikes me as a very unusual claim for anyone to make. I will also say not only did that claim sound very much at odds with anything that I've ever heard about happening within USAID, but I would love to fact- check it and it would be great to put our website back up so that everyone in the world could look at that website and see just how much money was going into Afghanistan and for what programming.

That data was available again as recently as last week and we'd love for the American public to see it again.

KEILAR: So, you're saying essentially that there are claims being made, but it's on data that can't be fact-checked because the folks making the claims or perpetuating the claims have also taken down the data that you would use to fact-check it?

ATHREYA: That is what I'm saying and I do think the American public and the American taxpayer should know what those programs are really supporting. They are supporting life-saving assistance to people who are suffering from famines or emergencies, people who have been displaced from their homes because of conflict.

My programs that my portfolio had worked on were supporting young children, babies, infants that had been abandoned or orphaned and finding them good loving homes. I would love for the American public to see all of that information about all of our programming.

KEILAR: Bama Athreya, thank you so much for being with us. We appreciate it.

ATHREYA: Thank you.

KEILAR: Still ahead, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu making the rounds on Capitol Hill today as lawmakers continue to react to President Trump's proposal on Gaza. Stay with us.

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