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The Polls on Trump's Popularity; Jane Harman is Interviewed about Israel-Hamas Conflict; New Storm Targets Eastern U.S.; Rev. Paul Brandeis Raushenbush is Interviewed about Targeting of Christians. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 10, 2025 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Praise the different support services. And then we negotiate a contract with them for that. It's not just some number made up that says we want that much in indirect. It has to be directly related back to the expense that that particular project incurs.

And so this, again, would be pound - penny wise and pound foolish.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: I am curious because you said it could stop sort of the research that is needed to make vaccines better. And then you have RFK Jr., who has been put up for the HHS secretary, who has said in the past there's no safe vaccine. If he becomes HHS secretary, and you have this issue with NIH where they're doing this - sort of cutting off of these funds, do you think vaccines are going to be harder to get in general?

OSTERHOLM: Sara, all of public health action is going to be harder to either appreciate, have it happen, or things like vaccines, have them available. And so we're very worried about this.

You know, I've been in this business 50 years now, and there is nothing - nothing has even come close to threatening the basic research capacity of this country to do good, to help people every day in their lives. And so, from my perspective, what we're seeing right now is a generational destruction of our research capacity. And there are many young researchers today that are not going to go into research here in this country.

I'm also well aware of researchers right now who are likely to lose their positions because of this action that are being heavily recruited by European research universities. The United States is going to quickly find itself way, way back in line on many of these issues. And it's so unnecessary because the cost benefit of providing this research money is - and the studies have been done to show, for every dollar you invest in this kind of research, society often saves millions of dollars. So, from that perspective, it is really a terrible, terrible legacy issue confronting us.

SIDNER: As we're talking about this, we are seeing the bird flu mutate. It has now gotten into cattle in Nevada. It has infected at least several humans, one of whom died. New York has had to close live poultry markets today for disinfection due to detecting bird flu. Can you give me some sense of where we are with this particular flu? And if we are in - if we should start to - to really worry about this as we see these numbers and these changes in bird flu.

OSTERHOLM: Yes. Well, you know, I got to be honest with you and say that I probably know less about flu today than I did ten years ago, because the more we've learned, the more we realize we don't really understand it completely.

What we're seeing right now is the natural home for these flu viruses are in wild birds, migratory waterfowl, and we've never seen widespread infection across all the continents of the world like we're seeing right now in these birds. They, in turn, serve - then transmit it to other animal species, and occasionally to humans.

What we're worried about is will one of those viruses change in such a way as to become the next pandemic virus, meaning that it is readily transmitted from person to person. And we just don't know that.

I can tell you there will be more influenza pandemics. They're going to happen. You know, as I say often, the pandemic clock is ticking, we just don't know what time it is. So even if it's not H5N1, we're going to have another flu virus.

This is the kind of research that's going to basically be destroyed by these decisions that are being made right now. You know, we are going to be a fire company going to a fire without any water. And I think this is really such an important issue because flu is ultimately going to come back and hurt us badly.

SIDNER: Michael Osterholm, thank you for talking us through that from a scientific perspective. Really important for Americans to understand what some of what seems like subtle changes happening can have such a huge impact and potentially for decades to come.

Really appreciate you coming on this morning.

Kate.

OSTERHOLM: Thank you, Sara.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up for us, President Trump doubles down on his plan for the United States to take control of Gaza. So, how do Americans feel about that move? We have the new numbers just in.

And what a halftime performer did to get arrested and banned for life from NFL stadiums and events.

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[08:38:49]

SIDNER: All right, so how do Americans feel about all the sweeping changes President Trump is making to the federal government, including slashing entire federal agencies and threatening tariffs?

CNN's Harry Enten here to run the numbers, as - as he always does.

CBS News out with a new poll showing that Americans seem to be liking what they're seeing. But it's a mixed bag.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes. I mean, look, it's - but it's not just CBS. You know, I like to take an average of the polls. I like to take an average of the polls. And holy smokes. I mean, look at what the difference is between now versus eight years ago during the first Trump term, right? This is Trump's net approval rating on February 10th.

You go back to 2017. Trump was already underwater at minus five points in the net approval rating, that's approval minus disapproval. What a difference eight years makes. He's on the positive side of the ledger at plus four points.

And again, it's not just the CBS News poll. We're talking about the Gallup poll. We're talking about the Ipsos poll. We are talking about the Pew poll. All of these respective pollsters have Trump in a better position now than they did eight years ago. The bottom line is, Americans are far more likely to say they like what they're seeing now versus what they felt during Trump's first term.

SIDNER: OK. So, how rare is this? Are you going to show us sort of where we're at now and how rare it is that this number changed?

[08:40:05]

ENTEN: Yes. So, I want you to take a look at this plus size - this plus sign, right, compare that to the negative sign. Being on the plus side of the ledger, right? A positive net approval territory. A positive net approval rating for Donald Trump. Again, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Entire first term. Just 11 days. Just 11 days Donald Trump had a net positive approval rating. Compare that to the second term just so far. Just so far. Every single day of Trump's second term so far he has been on the positive side of the ledger, 21 days, all three weeks. That's already ten more days than he was in his entire first term. So again, this is just another sign that Americans are far more likely to like what they're seeing in his second term than they were during his first term.

SIDNER: He also won the popular vote in his second term. So, it stands to reason that there would be more people that would approve of - of some of what he's doing.

Is there something that Americans say about why it is that they - that they like him now more than they did back in the first term?

ENTEN: You know, I think one of the things that's so important for politicians is for folks to believe what they're saying, and that they're keeping their campaign promises. So, I think this gives you a pretty gosh darn good idea of what may be going on. Trump's doing what he promised to do. You go back to April of 2017, it

was just 46 percent of all Americans who said that Trump was doing what he promised to do. Compare that now to February of 2025. You know, there was a good show that was on during the 1990s called "A Different World." That is what's going on right now. We're living in a different world. Seventy percent of Americans say Trump is doing what he promised to do. Again, compare that to April of 2017, when it was just 46 percent. When Americans are 24 points more likely to say that you're doing what you promised to do, it's no wonder that your net approval rating is much more likely to be on the positive side of the ledger than on the negative side. And so far what we're seeing again is Americans, 21 days so far, versus just 11 days during his entire first term, that Trump has a positive net approval rating. Quite a different world.

SIDNER: Totally. And thank you, because it's the same world with you every day. Lots of energy, no matter what the heck is going on.

ENTEN: No coffee necessary.

SIDNER: Very disturbing.

OK, Kate, over to you.

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now to talk more about this is Jane Harman, former nine term member of Congress from California and former ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee. She also just chaired the Commission on the National Defense Strategy.

It's good to see you.

JANE HARMAN (D), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much for being here.

In that same poll that Harry and Sara were just talking about, he - they - there was - there were numbers coming out on his handling of the Israel-Hamas conflict. His handling of it also got positive marks in this - in that CBS poll. But the idea of the United States taking over Gaza different, completely flip flop, not playing well, only 13 percent of Americans who were polled said that they thought that was a good idea. Why do you think that is?

HARMAN: Well, I - blowing up the two state solution was not a campaign promise in this campaign. I think I missed it. I don't think he would have won Michigan if that had been one of his campaign planks.

And it's kind of surprising that he's pushing this hard for this big, beautiful real estate deal. And oh, by the way, I think this is phase one. Phase two will be, he will support Israel's claim that they can annex the West Bank. And then we'll have 5 million Palestinians with no place to go. I mean this is just incredible.

I remember, I know you're going to ask me, so I'll volunteer it, 26 plus years ago, being with President Clinton, First Lady Hillary Clinton and Yasser Arafat, Yasser Arafat, the head of the Palestinian national congress, Palestinian Authority at the time, in Gaza, when the phase one of a deal that Clinton had negotiated was implemented. There was a big, beautiful hotel on the Mediterranean. And there was a small, beautiful airport. And there was an AID facility. Oh, by the way, USAID, remember that. And the goal was to help Gaza become a major tourist mecca run by the Palestinians, with Palestinians living there. And that's just a better, beautiful idea, it seems to me, than displacing millions of people and trying to push them into countries that don't want them.

BOLDUAN: Well, in - but even - even so, even that effort fell apart after months.

HARMAN: Yes, it did.

BOLDUAN: But president - despite, obviously, President Clinton's efforts, where do you see - there - there was - the way you wrote about it in the piece was - was illustrative because it - you could hear Clinton almost using similar language to what you hear from President Trump in some regard.

HARMAN: Right.

[08:45:01]

BOLDUAN: The similarities and what do you think can be learned from that experience?

HARMAN: Well, I - peace is elusive. The Palestinian government has never been strong to remind Hamas is there because there was an election in 2007 and Hamas won. Just wrap your head around that. By the way, I think Hamas is now stronger than it was before some of the Israeli bombing campaign.

I support the existence of Israel. I - and I support a two state solution, which I think will keep Israel safer. And it has been long standing U.S. policy. So, how do we get somewhere?

I think the - the better idea right now is something that Trump is pushing and was pushing, which is building on the Abraham Accords, getting the Sunni Arab countries, led by Saudi Arabia, to do a deal with Israel, which has, as a condition, and the Saudis are still sticking to this, some form of - of pathway toward a state for the Palestinian people. They need better government. I mean I'm not calling for regime change, but they should be calling for regime change. Look how they've been living for years.

But I think if - if - if steps could be taken, if - if the PA could be reformed, the Palestinian Authority could be reformed, if Hamas could be kept out of the new government, except perhaps in some small technical roles, then we would see, I think, real progress, not just for the people on - in Gaza, but for the Palestinian people as a whole, and they deserve a homeland, too.

BOLDUAN: From your experience, what do you think of - and I offer this as a big if. What do you think of it as if this position that Donald Trump has taken, and continues to push in taking over Gaza, if that is a negotiating position to tell Arab nations, you need to get involved and you need to do something or it could - or I can - or it could get worse, from your experience, what do you - if it is a negotiating position, what do you think of it?

HARMAN: Well, this seems to be now the new new normal for a lot of things.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Yes.

HARMAN: Negotiating positions about tariffs. Negotiating positions about other activities. And maybe it is that. And maybe the Arab world will say, oh, my, we don't want Palestinians pushed into our country, so we better step up. It's possible.

What do I - what is my end game? My end game is for Israel to be a secure country long into the future. For Israel to have the best possible government. For the Palestinians to have the best possible government. And for the region, living in peace, to be a huge trading center for the world.

And finally, we haven't talked about Iran. Right now, Iran is the most dangerous actor in - in he region. And the Israelis deserve credit for neutralizing the - the terror groups that were Iran's proxies. They deserve credit.

But what come - should come from this? There are glimmers of hope in Syria, glimmers of hope in Lebanon that they will have better, stronger governments. Let's nurture that. Let's not have it fall apart. If there's huge disarray in the West Bank and in Gaza. And let's not destabilize two countries that have been friends of Israels for decades now. They would be Jordan and Egypt. And the Hashemite government in - monarchy in Jordan is at risk if - if Palestinians are pushed into Jordan.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

HARMAN: They already have a huge Palestinian population.

BOLDUAN: When the king of Jordan comes -

HARMAN: Tomorrow.

BOLDUAN: Comes tomorrow.

HARMAN: Tomorrow.

BOLDUAN: Those conversations and what comes from those conversations, those - I think those are extremely critical into what we - we see in the coming days.

It's really good to see you.

HARMAN: You too.

BOLDUAN: Thanks for coming in. John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this morning, 29 million people are under winter weather alerts. This is amid a new round of storms expected to dump snow from the middle of the country to the East Coast.

Meteorologist Derek Van Dam is with us.

Derek, my snow blower is not working. I think it needs new oil. How quickly do I need to get it?

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You're going to have to do the old - old school way of shoveling by hand, John. It's coming your way. And we've got a one-two punch of winter storms impacting the eastern third of the country. You can see both storms right now with the winter weather alerts. Winter storm warnings for the Mid-Atlantic. This is storm number two. Winter storm watches across parts of the Plains.

Now, look at what Blacksburg, Virginia, National Weather Service office, the language they're using, numerous power outages. Outages that could last for multiple days. Travel nearly impossible. And it's all because of the ice.

So, the first storm moves through, knocks on our doorstep tonight. Produces the ice across the mid-Atlantic, including Virginia. Secondary storm lays another sheet of ice over the same locations, but also brings snow to the Midwest.

Look at this. This is the area that was impacted by Hurricane Helene. They're anticipating anywhere from three quarters to an inch of ice. That is debilitating amounts of ice. Below that, in the warm sector, this will be a heavy rain event that could cause flash flooding. So, be prepared, John. Get those snow blowers ready if you can.

[08:50:02]

BERMAN: All right, have to go shopping today.

Derek Van Dam, thank you very much for that.

Sara.

SIDNER: While you are shopping, I suggest you get yourself a cake. And here is why. One piece of cake per day. That is the key to living a very long life according to 103-year-old Anni Petsche. The great grandmother also said she never stops moving. So, she's always moving around. Before working at a knitting mill in Queens, Petsche spent her childhood in an orphanage in Europe. These days she prefers not to work as hard, though, enjoying her downtime watching "The Price is Right" and "The Sound of Music." Those are two good ones. By the way, when asked about her flavor of cake, Anni said, smartly, everything.

All right, just ahead, President Trump signed an executive order to fight what he calls anti-Christian bias, but critics warn this is a threat actually to religious freedom and civil rights laws. And the Eagles did what they say they do, they flew. Fly Eagles, fly. Philadelphia getting redemption. And Kendrick Lamar declaring game over.

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[08:55:48]

BERMAN: This morning, President Trump and his allies are leveling new attacks on some religious groups, questioning their efforts to help migrants in the United States. Catholic and Lutheran Charities say they are facing a cash crisis after the administration ended funding for their programs that help resettle refugees.

This comes as, over the weekend, the president created a task force aimed at targeting what he calls anti-Christian discrimination in the federal government.

With us now is Reverend Paul Brandeis Raushenbush, the president and CEO of the Interfaith Alliance.

Thank you so much for being with us.

How big of a problem is anti-Christian discrimination in the federal government?

REV. PAUL BRANDEIS RAUSHENBUSH, PRESIDENT AND CEO, INTERFAITH ALLIANCE: Well, what's interesting is, it's almost nonexistent. I mean there have been Christians in federal government, there have been great programs that have been run with Christian assistance and USAID. This is not a problem, but the president is actually - what he's trying to do is create a problem, which is part of a play for power.

And so this is - what we've actually seen is an anti-Christian bias coming out of the White House. So, we actually need protection from the White House at this point. And no one knows that better than people like Mariann Budde, who have been attacked, bullied by the president, receiving death threats just for preaching from her pulpit that he might give mercy. We've seen the Catholic bishops being attacked by J.D. Vance for doing their work, being accused of going for the bottom line. This is gross - grotesque.

And the Lutheran services that you mentioned, they - they help the elderly. They help people across this country, doing great work. And Elon Musk comes out and says, oh, these people are money laundering. This is terrible. These are all attacks directly on Christian communities.

The quakers have experienced it with ICE being now allowed to invade congregations one after another. Christian communities under attack from this Trump-Vance-Musk administration. And it's very ironic that they're worried about anti-Christian bias, given that we need to be protected from this White House rather than protection.

BERMAN: This White House does have a lot of support from different parts of the faith community. I wonder how you think it uses faith. RAUSHENBUSH: This White House?

BERMAN: Yes.

RAUSHENBUSH: It uses faith for power. This is a - all from a Christian nationalist playbook. They don't have actually wide support. They have wide support from a very narrow slice of American Christianity, which is white, protestant, Christian nationalist who are on a quest for power. And that's what's being rewarded here.

BERMAN: It's not - it's not just Christian nationalists, I think, among religious groups that support him. He has support within, you know, many parts of the evangelical community, which isn't necessarily Christian nationalist.

RAUSHENBUSH: Not necessarily, but many of them are. And so these are - these are folks who have actually really helped him get re-elected. And so, when he talks about anti-Christian bias, he's not talking about Christianity at large. He's not talking about me or mainstream Christianity, which includes the Episcopalians, the Catholics, the Lutherans, the quakers. Even - even - even the - the LDS church has come out and said, we actually need to be able to do our ministry without being attacked by the government.

And so what we're seeing now is actually a small group of people who have gained power and - and are trying to create a privileged class of belief. And that's what Christian nationalism is, is that some people have a privileged class of - they are Christian. They are - they have a certain viewpoint on power, and they have their - their guy in the White House, and he is paying them back with giving them all kinds of Christian privilege with this new EO, which is actually very biased against the majority of Christian folks.

BERMAN: It's an important discussion going forward. Reverend Paul Brandeis Raushenbush, we appreciate you being here. Thank you.

RAUSHENBUSH: Thank you.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: This morning, the NFL has confirmed that a protester who appeared during Kendrick Lamar's halftime show at the Super Bowl was actually one of the hired background dancers. A protester unfurled a combined Palestinian Sudanese flag. It happened near the end of the halftime show. He was tackled and removed by security eventually. The NFL now says that the dancer acted without the coordination of showrunners and had hidden the flag before the performance, saying no one involved with the production was aware of the individual's intent.

[09:00:05]